A phrase entered my head:

"I would rather live in reality and be miserable than happy in a delusion."

This is oft said by atheists about believing in a god.

I thought, in a sort of retort to this idea:

"Well if there isn't a God, and this is all I have, I'd rather bullshit my self and be happy if honor and integrity don't mean a damned thing in the end anyways."

Seriously though, what fucking good is honor and integrity if they produce a miserable life in the ONLY life you have? If there's no reward, no punishment, no purpose...why the fuck would you impose upon yourself being miserable?

What kind of reasoning sits behind this philosophy? Could someone who holds to this line of thinking explain it to me?

A phrase entered my head:

"I would rather live in reality and be miserable than happy in a delusion."

This is oft said by atheists about believing in a god.

I thought, in a sort of retort to this idea:

"Well if there isn't a God, and this is all I have, I'd rather bullshit my self and be happy if honor and integrity don't mean a damned thing in the end anyways."

Seriously though, what fucking good is honor and integrity if they produce a miserable life in the ONLY life you have? If there's no reward, no punishment, no purpose...why the fuck would you impose upon yourself being miserable?

What kind of reasoning sits behind this philosophy? Could someone who holds to this line of thinking explain it to me?

Because it's the right thing to do? Altruism is a social construct to foster and facilitate happiness among the group. Misery appears when it isn't reciprocated.

"I would rather live in reality and be miserable than happy in a delusion."

This is oft said by atheists about believing in a god.



What's so miserable about a godless reality? Those oft-quoted atheists are probably projecting the theist assumption that life without God is miserable (for the sake of argument).

"Well if there isn't a God, and this is all I have, I'd rather bullshit my self and be happy if honor and integrity don't mean a damned thing in the end anyways."

Nice retort. I, too, come to great revelations while copping a squat on the porcelain pot :D

However - Honesty and Integrity don't matter in the end... unless you're using it as a means to get in the good graces of the divine HMFIC and secure yourself a seat in paradise. IMO, that's the definition of doing the right thing for the wrong reason. The greatest benefit of Honesty and Integrity is in the present, when you're able to exercise those traits for the good of others, and like Graemy said, with hopes it will be reciprocated. If it's not reciprocated (and often isn't), then you've always got the Bullshit Thyself mechanism to fall back on. (a.k.a. - the turn the other cheek philosophy)

Also:

Bullshitting yourself into being happy is something everyone should practice - regardless of faith or lack thereof. Letting a positive attitude completely trump everything is a fine trick used to make bad situations seem not-so-intolerable.

"What's so miserable about a godless reality? Those oft-quoted atheists are probably projecting the theist assumption that life without God is miserable (for the sake of argument)."

That's kind of what motivated this thought in me. Why would you want to be miserable, even if it does result from self realization? (which it doesn't, by the way...I've gained nothing but happiness from being honest with my self)

"The greatest benefit of Honesty and Integrity is in the present, when you're able to exercise those traits for the good of others, and like Graemy said, with hopes it will be reciprocated."

Much agreed. :) I tend not to care much if they're reciprocated or not anymore, though. It seems that even if people take a good deed and shit on it, you still get that joy of simply having done a good deed. Clean conscience and a sense of worth is always nice. :) Accomplishment? Nice too, but not always included in doing a good deed.

This thread went downhill from the title.

"I would rather live in reality and be miserable than happy in a delusion."

The reason reality is seen as miserable is because the delusion is bliss. Reality is only miserable by comparison.

The delusion is more comoforting than the reality, UNLESS you realize it is a delusion.

You are free to decide the delusion makes you happy, who knows maybe it does, but that does not change the fact that it is a delusion brought on by a cowardly refusal to face reality.

Whats reality, Broke?

A phrase entered my head:

"I would rather live in reality and be miserable than happy in a delusion."

This is oft said by atheists about believing in a god.

I thought, in a sort of retort to this idea:

"Well if there isn't a God, and this is all I have, I'd rather bullshit my self and be happy if honor and integrity don't mean a damned thing in the end anyways."

Seriously though, what fucking good is honor and integrity if they produce a miserable life in the ONLY life you have? If there's no reward, no punishment, no purpose...why the fuck would you impose upon yourself being miserable?

What kind of reasoning sits behind this philosophy? Could someone who holds to this line of thinking explain it to me?

Honor and integrity (whatever your definition of those things are to you) should be important if you believe somewhat in Karma. I have found helping other people or being in a good mood (pleasant) towards others rewards me more than if I walk around complaining about shit and making others uneasy when around me. I feel the path I walk down will be lit for me if I put myself out there for others. Maybe im full of shit i dont know.

A lot of atheists tend to throw around things like "Karma", and then in great times of despair alone they cry "Please, someone help me"...it makes me wonder why its so inherent to search for a god figure salvation.

Because its been engraved in our minds for the last 2000 years?

And any atheist who belives about karam is presumambly either not athiest (buddhist, I belive? Not a belief in god as such, but a defined and life-encompasing system of beliefs none the less) or may be refering to a sort of social karma (how far would you get if you stole from everone you knew?)



Whats the line? "there are no athiests in foxholes"?
Its been said that few believers emerge from them.

A phrase entered my head:

"I would rather live in reality and be miserable than happy in a delusion."

This is oft said by atheists about believing in a god.

I thought, in a sort of retort to this idea:

"Well if there isn't a God, and this is all I have, I'd rather bullshit my self and be happy if honor and integrity don't mean a damned thing in the end anyways."

Seriously though, what fucking good is honor and integrity if they produce a miserable life in the ONLY life you have? If there's no reward, no punishment, no purpose...why the fuck would you impose upon yourself being miserable?

What kind of reasoning sits behind this philosophy? Could someone who holds to this line of thinking explain it to me?

It's misleading to say "I'd rather bullshit myself and be happy if honor and integrity don't mean a damned thing in the end anyway," for a number of reasons.

First, honor and integrity don't really mean anything 'in the end' in many religions, too.

Second, and this realization was extremely important to me, if your existence is infinite--it is also meaningless. This is because a being with infinite existence has no reason to interact with the world. Everything that could be strived for loses its significance before the face of omnipossibility. There's no reason to engage yourself in any activity, I'd imagine that art would lose its flavor. In order to think about existence, it's necessary to think of finite existence. Existence as we know it is impossible if not temporal. If you'd like me to expand upon this I will. :)

Third, if there is no God, which is to say if there is existence (see above), then everything is equally meaningless in the way you're thinking of it. There's no more objective value in being dishonest than honest, in being unwholesome than there is in being wholesome, etc. We, in a sense, paint a portrait of our existence-- our values, our mannerisms, our attitude, our actions, these are all colors on our pallette. We're the composers of our own opera, and the 'meaning' of life, if you will, is in creating the most beautiful opera imaginable. Your meaning is your responsibility; you won't find the meaning for your existence in Gods, in textbooks, in conversations with people--your meaning is designed by you.


My two cents^.

Whats reality, Broke?

Have you noticed a complete lack of food lately, troll?

I just had to post this, b/c I have skipped over your little zingers, and have noticed others doing so in thread after thread.

I will not respond to this, as it defeats the purpose of your apparent excommunication, but I just had to point out how easy it is for people to skip right over your derailing troll bait now.

Piece of advice, Come up with anything interesting to say about anything.

OP's quote sound slike a slightly garbled version of a parable which is rather lengthy, but the punch line is that the guru said "I do not wish to be happy that way."

"That way" being ignorant, unenlightened, and totally caught up in material things.

IMHO, the parable is, well, sort of stupid. The more awake and enlightened you are, the happier you are. At least that is my experience.

Have you noticed a complete lack of food lately, troll?

I just had to post this, b/c I have skipped over your little zingers, and have noticed others doing so in thread after thread.

I will not respond to this, as it defeats the purpose of your apparent excommunication, but I just had to point out how easy it is for people to skip right over your derailing troll bait now.

Piece of advice, Come up with anything interesting to say about anything.

Well, fuck, if you're going to ignore a valid question just because it's Obbe, I'll ask it for him:

What's reality, Broke?

lol, good question JesuitArtiste.

Come up with anything interesting to say about anything.

How about you get over whatever personal issues you have when you see my user name responding to your posts, and answer the question?

Sure, what is reality is a valid question, that detracts from the point of this thread.

Which is trolling.

Which I will not feed.

It could all be an illusion.

It could all be the dream of an illusion, of a dream of a God.

It could all be the sensation a godling gets in it's thought center as it smells its own potent fart.

^ALL CORRECT, COULD BE, SCENARIOS.

POINTLESS HORSESHIT.

Why post the question here in this thread?

Post your childish question and answers in a brand new thread Obbe, and watch as it gets 10 views, 3 posts and dies.

Look forward to next thread on reality Obbe, and you can look forward to me pointing out I read it on a fortune cookie.

Well, fuck, if you're going to ignore a valid question just because it's Obbe, I'll ask it for him:

What's reality, Broke?

What are you a side-kick troll?

It detracts from this thread, side-kick troll.

How's being a miserable prick on totse, Broke?

Is it filling up the empty void in your real life pretty well?

What are you a side-kick troll?

It detracts from this thread, side-kick troll.

I don't believe that it does detract from this thread, In fact I believe it to be a fundamental question in the thread.

This statement was made in the OP: "I would rather live in reality and be miserable than happy in a delusion."

Now, a question that may arise when regarding this statement would be ,'What is Reality?' This would be prudent so that we can make sure we are discussing the same terms within the question. To understand this statement, and to put it into effect, one must understand what it is to live in reality, and what it is to live in delusion, and seeing as we're making a value judgement, we have to see on what grounds we're are rating reality as better than delusion... Well... I think, anyway.

But either way, if we want to argue this statement, I'm of the opinion that we should define the terms being used. The only way in which I can see Obbe may have done wrong with his question is that he adressed you rather than the community as a whole.

Personally, I have no concrete idea of what reality is, and so the question is largely meaningless to me, as I am unsure that there is a difference between reality and delusion. At the moment my view may be that reality is the organisation of information in a way best suited to the growth and preservation of the individual; mentally and physically within a culture and enviroment. To me delusion seems to be a belief that is out of place in the culture regarding the individuals.

Can you see that the question is not just some bullshit meant to provoke you, or for Obbe to tell us about God? (because I personally can't remember the last time Obbe volunteered anything about his concept of God.)

... I am unsure that there is a difference between reality and delusion. At the moment my view may be that reality is the organisation of information ...

At least you're thinking about it.

I personally can't remember the last time Obbe volunteered anything about his concept of God

I try to bring it up as little as possible now when bringing my own opinion to a topic, as I do not enjoy the long drawn out examination of that concept which is usually demanded of me. And it also pisses everyone off.

Also, in trying to be indifferent to the beliefs of others, I've been trying to talk less about my own since hearing stuff like that will puts the topic on a persons mind, and makes them become concerned with others beliefs ... suddenly "Heres a guy talking about God and reality, we should go explain why hes wrong" ... and causing this in others probably adds more to the problem then if I were overly concerned with others beliefs myself.

However, if someone were to ask me out of their own curiosity on the subject what I think of God, then I would be glad to write a reply.

A phrase entered my head:

"I would rather live in reality and be miserable than happy in a delusion."

This is oft said by atheists about believing in a god.

I thought, in a sort of retort to this idea:

"Well if there isn't a God, and this is all I have, I'd rather bullshit my self and be happy if honor and integrity don't mean a damned thing in the end anyways."

Seriously though, what fucking good is honor and integrity if they produce a miserable life in the ONLY life you have? If there's no reward, no punishment, no purpose...why the fuck would you impose upon yourself being miserable?

What kind of reasoning sits behind this philosophy? Could someone who holds to this line of thinking explain it to me?

I didn't read all the other posts to see if this might be a repost.

But what makes you think life as an atheist is miserable?

A phrase entered my head

me too.... "roses are red, violets are blue im schizophrenic and so am I"