I found this article and I'm getting a kick out of the generalizations, mostly true, and the responses. Anyone who has gone to college with these people can relate:

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/04/top-5-reasons-t.html

Though I'm keen on academic integrity, I admire some of their strategy since I'm a greedy fuck as well: I'll be voting for McCain since his energy policy is preferable to secure my career goals in petroleum engineering. Still, I'm not an arrogant prick like most of these kids, and it's a shame since I don't think that the US program breeds the most desirable characteristics in future physicians nor does it help public opinion of the health care system. The European programs in medicine are better in many respects.

i just saw the adderall picture and chuckled to myself.

in a way it's too bad the system is set up to encourage people with those personalities, but it also goes along with with what you want in a doctor, most of the time anyway.

european programs in medicine may be better for the students, but what about the patients of these future doctors? or more importantly, the research that will be carried out to offensively fight illness rather than just waiting for people to get sick and come in to diagnose them. i mean obviously european medicine is nearly as advanced as american, but america is where all the research and breakthroughs are happening.

Well, the research and breakthroughs are carried out more by PhDs than MDs.

In the European system, students enter their medical program straight out of secondary school and the requirements are similarly stringent. Their entire program is focused on medicine.

One might argue that this will produce a less well-rounded student, but the 4 year pre-med system in the US isn't much better since those students don't have the time to focus on any secondary interests.

Well, the research and breakthroughs are carried out more by PhDs than MDs.

In the European system, students enter their medical program straight out of secondary school and the requirements are similarly stringent. Their entire program is focused on medicine.

One might argue that this will produce a less well-rounded student, but the 4 year pre-med system in the US isn't much better since those students don't have the time to focus on any secondary interests.

yeah, i wish there was an undergrad "medicine" degree in the US. the correlations between practicing medicine and things like physics or even all the science labs required is a little hazy to me.

There's a lot of physics in medicine, but I think the main point is to weed out the idiots.

There's a lot of physics in medicine, but I think the main point is to weed out the idiots.

i don't know if i buy that first statement. i can understand weeding people out, but i dunno. seems stupid.

premed students aren't that bad, it's the business students like myself. school is an investment, and I want to make the most $ out of it whilst doing the least work.


5. They haggle with their teachers for extra points.

I do this all the time. It works.

4. They use questionable tactics to get good grades.

Only red bull. School isn't that challenging, I just tend to be slightly apathetic about my coursework.

3. They horde leadership positions and then run organizations into the ground.

No.

2. They game the system to get good grades.

Obviously. College is like gambling, so obviously I want to do the best.

1. They are not motivated by curiosity.

Obviously not. The system is a game.

Anyway, 4-6 years in school vs. 11 years of crazy for greater $ potential. MDs will make 180k gross, private equity/entrepreneurs/bankers=much more.

i don't know if i buy that first statement. i can understand weeding people out, but i dunno. seems stupid.

xrays/mammograms, MRIs, radioisotopes... If you're too dumb to learn basic physics, you're too dumb to be my doctor.

Anyway, 4-6 years in school vs. 11 years of crazy for greater $ potential. MDs will make 180k gross, private equity/entrepreneurs/bankers=much more.

Shitty doctors make 180k or less, the good ones are getting 400-600k or more. MBAs make less, actually. Plenty of doctors are entrepreneurs too.

1. They are not motivated by curiosity.

Obviously not. The system is a game.



Not having a go at you, and I get exactly where you're coming from, but do you reckon if you get students who aren't in college/university for the academic curiosity, then you shouldn't get the BA/BSc letters after your name?

Where do you draw the line between work and academic curiosity?

@ Pua http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Doctor_of_Medicine_(MD)/Salary

MDs will make 3-400k if they are running their own office w/ other doctors.

MBAs will only start making the big bucks if they graduate from the top 20 or so schools; otherwise it is useless.

There are so many pre-med students that never go any further, drop out, or switch into another program. There are a lot of nurses out there that start out in pre-med. Lawyers as well.

It takes a certain sort of person to practice medicine and I'm usually impressed by people within this profession. However, my experience with doctors doesn't venture into the United States.

I'm a chemistry pre-med option student and most of those things are true! I always haggle with the teacher to get extra points, I have taken adderall a few times, I drink caffeine like water when I need to, I do things just to put on my resume... but do you think I like doing these things?

Fuck no.

The average accepted medical student has a 3.7-3.8 gpa with plenty of other things we need, i.e., so many hours of volunteering at the hospital, shadowing experience, at least around 10ish letters of recommendations (3 or more should be of professors that don't teach a science course), good MCAT scores (which deal with many things we DO NOT need to be a good doctor), and the list goes on and on. The medical adviser at my school has written a 22 page paper on things that pre-med students should consider to get into med-school.

And about "not caring about learning" people have said it before here but we only really care about anything that can apply to being a physician. You have to take certain bullshit classes to graduate, i.e. anthropology, engineering physics, which just aren't interesting.

We have to go through a lot of shit to get what we want; more than most majors. Instead of looking at these 5 things to dislike pre-med students, maybe cut us some slack. We don't like doing these things, but they all help us reach a very high goal that we have set up for ourselves.

I'd have to agree with the above poster that it's really more a scenario of "hate the game, not the player." The pre-meds only do all that shit because that's what our system says they're supposed to do to become doctors. I'm sure they wish they could just study what they feel relates to medicine and healing patients, but instead so much more is asked of them.

All that's asked of them is the volunteering stuff, which is directly related to medicine, and getting good grades. Pretty much the entire list of things to dislike about them is related to keeping a high GPA.

none of those seem like reasons to dislike them. more like reasons to pity them.

4. They use questionable tactics to get good grades.

Only red bull. School isn't that challenging, I just tend to be slightly apathetic about my coursework.

.


Our Med students are so fond of Red Bull they had special 'Med Bull' T shirts made up for them. :)

lol.

Anyone read the comments?


As a PhD student in Biochemistry, I see a lot of these students. They are the bane of teaching for me, but once in a blue moon I see the student that is curious and wants to learn. I try to direct those students to consider a PhD or a dual MD/PhD degree.

Another reason to dislike some med students is their greed. I know of one such student that is voting for McCain this fall so he can still be paid as a doctor (rather than serving his fellow mankind).