...why would he let millions of people believe in him, worship him and dedicated their lives to him in vain?

http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/2007/55173-lolwut.jpg

Brilliant!

not existing does have the unfortunate side effect of not being able to stop people worshipping you.

i'll tell you what though, if you worshipped me and i didn't exist I'D sure come and tell you to stop . . . . once i figured out how to exist . . . . . although then maybe you SHOULD worship me with me existing and all

not existing does have the unfortunate side effect of not being able to stop people worshipping you.


Aw, someone had to ruin it.

Ahahaha.
<3

A flawless victory of Shuu's part. Motion to archive.

Satan--the devil--does not exist, nor do heaven or hell. Yet millions of people believe in those things.

Truth is not something to be determined by popular vote. Truth just is, and can neither be proven nor disproven.

Truth just is, and can neither be proven nor disproven.

This is an assertion. How do you know?

This is an assertion. How do you know?

Okay, let's take a simple and mundane example. I had a bowl of Life cereal for breakfast this morning. I know this is true--but I cannot prove this assertion, nor can anyone else disprove it.

Okay, let's take a simple and mundane example. I had a bowl of Life cereal for breakfast this morning. I know this is true--but I cannot prove this assertion, nor can anyone else disprove it.

*Gets stool sample from Arms later that afternoon, and sends to lab to be analyzed.

Now we can prove or disprove your assertion.

*Gets stool sample from Arms later that afternoon, and sends to lab to be analyzed.

Now we can prove or disprove your assertion.

prove that the stool sample came from arms
prove that whatever you find in there is life cereal
prove that the sample even exists

not existing does have the unfortunate side effect of not being able to stop people worshipping you.

he's god, he can do anything

he's god, he can do anything

Even spark his own existence! :eek:

Because majority of humans seem to have this belief that they are a complete different entity then anything else in this universe =\ and that we came from the heavens. We just evolved more then other things but are just as closely related to everything else in this universe and are just apart of a huge circle.

Most people when having no where else to go need some kind of hope, they create a god so they have something to rely on and tell their conscience well there is hope, there's 'god'. By telling themselves that it forces them to keep hope and be able to get through whatever the fuck it is so they claim it was god who helped them when it was just themselves doing it subconsciencly.

I guess you can claim our brain is god, my belief of 'god' is everything in this universe. God is a not a him, her, it's not a person, an animal, a spirit but god is everything that exists.

Do you know how many other planets there are that contains some sort of life form? Millions. We are nothing special. Besides your reasons for believing in god is incredibly poor.

People are afraid of dieing and don't wanna believe when we die, we die. That's it there's nothing left, no after life no nothing. Just like anything else on this planet that dies, once it's gone it's gone. I agree it does make me feel better if I believed in going to a different place when I die and that my life wont be over completely but that isn't the way.

Satan--the devil--does not exist, nor do heaven or hell. Yet millions of people believe in those things.

Truth is not something to be determined by popular vote. Truth just is, and can neither be proven nor disproven.

Truth is an illusion of the mind. Truth,like reality, depends upon the individual.

God is a not a him, her, it's not a person, an animal, a spirit but god is everything that exists.

Oh, you're into that new-age bullshit. Good luck with that.

Oh, you're into that new-age bullshit. Good luck with that.

New age? That's just my own belief... If others believe that I'd like to meet them.

Honestly, stupid fucks that believe god is a thought processing being is such bulshit. I have never read a bigger fairy tale then the bible and the commandments? Get the fuck out of here, that's just common sense.

Why doesn't god speak to anyone nowadays? Wheres all the 'magical' like people/things; moses, burning bushes, people turning to stone and whatever the fuck else the bible bulshits about? A senior citizen built a fucking super tanker by himself and collected every single species, now what the fuck.

The more gods a civilation has, the dumber they were. They created gods to explain what they couldn't explain/understand themselves. Now with pretty much only 1 god left which is the 'creator of all things', is only because we have yet to understand or discover how all of this came about... But we are more and more, finding out that humans are nothing more important or better then anything else in this universe.

Oh, you're into that new-age bullshit. Good luck with that.

That idea is hardly New Age, much less bullshit.

Among many others, the Sufi Muslims realize it.

That idea is hardly New Age, much less bullshit.

Among many others, the Sufi Muslims realize it.

Good for them. This concept of God doesn't really make him much of a god. My dictionary defines 'god' as "a supernatural being, who is worshipped as the controller of some part of the universe or some aspect of life in the world or is the personification of some force". Note the 'personification' part. What is the value in worshipping the personification of a force? Should we worship gravity?

Even spark his own existence! :eek:

by definition, nothing can be impossible for god.

by definition, nothing can be impossible for god.

But god has to exist in the first place for these rules to apply...

Truth is an illusion of the mind. Truth,like reality, depends upon the individual.

So I only have 23 pairs of chromosomes according to myself? So to someone else, I may only have 2 pairs? I think you are mistaking Truth for belief or perception. The same with reality. Reality is that objective in-itself that the individual perceives. Yes our perceptions may be different, but they do not change what is objective reality. This is to say, you may see money as green, and I see it as grey (I'm colorblind). That doesn't change the wavelengths that are bouncing off money, it only means that my eyes perceive them differently (dysfunctionally by intersubjective standards). Reality <> Perception

Because we can only percieve reality subjectively, how can we know it objectively?

So I only have 23 pairs of chromosomes according to myself?

Do you actually believe that?

Good for them. This concept of God doesn't really make him much of a god. My dictionary defines 'god' as "a supernatural being, who is worshipped as the controller of some part of the universe or some aspect of life in the world or is the personification of some force". Note the 'personification' part. What is the value in worshipping the personification of a force? Should we worship gravity?

"What is the value"? If that force is 'life', and worship means serving life ...... ? Does not life manifest in personal form?

"What is the value"? If that force is 'life', and worship means serving life ...... ? Does not life manifest in personal form?

Life isn't a force and this isn't Star Wars. Get over it. 'Serving' life isn't the same as worshipping a god. It's just ignoring the actual point of a god but managing to avoid the label of 'atheist'. I could say that air is the real god, who I'm worshipping by breathing, and it wouldn't mean I have serious religious views. These people manipulate this concept and use the word 'energy', associating it with their religion to make up which sounds good, seemingly for no other reason than to give themselves the illusion of intelligence.

Life isn't a force

What is it then?

"force: 1. strength or energy, power". "Life: 1. The state or quality that distinguishes living beings from dead ones ... 13. a source of strength ..."(Source: Collins Concise Dictionary)

What is it then?

(Source: Collins Concise Dictionary)

A force is applied energy. Energy is the ability to do work. I'm talking about science, not conversational usage.

But god has to exist in the first place for these rules to apply...

not if anything is possible with god.

not if anything is possible with god.

Alright, fine, I guess you can say that an omnipotent being that doesn't exist can make itself exist, since it's omnipotent...

But that's just getting asinine...

...why would he let millions of people believe in him, worship him and dedicated their lives to him in vain?

Because we humans are some stupid motherfuckers?
Christ, if OJ Simpson could get off innocent, I'm sure a couple of guys could write a book that a few people believed and passed onto their negligent friends, thereby starting that shit.

A force is applied energy. Energy is the ability to do work. I'm talking about science, not conversational usage.

In that case Life is appropriate. It is applied energy, after all how could there be any ability to work without life. Life is energy!

In that case Life is appropriate. It is applied energy, after all how could there be any ability to work without life. Life is energy!

Cognitive functions and functions of organs use forces, but the cumulative biological forces of all life don't add up to one uniform force, they add up to a series of biological systems.

Truth is not something to be determined by popular vote.

Well, here in mainland America....


New age? That's just my own belief... If others believe that I'd like to meet them.


I do. It's strange, I sort of took things I knew, things I observed, and things I sensed to construct my beliefs, I guess. Suddenly I'm meeting all these people with similar beliefs, almost word for word the same.

I'm sure a couple of guys could write a book that a few people believed and passed onto their negligent friends, thereby starting that shit.

I'm sick of hearing shit like this. The bible isn't some fucking book that 'a bunch of guys' just decided to write for a 'pratical joke'. It is several books that started as an oral tradition, the mythology, folklore, history and legal documents of a society.

Do you actually believe that?

Believe what? That humans (normally) have 23 pairs of chromosomes?

God proved his existence when I did shrooms, but I don't believe anymore.

Because we can only percieve reality subjectively, how can we know it objectively?

Why must individual experience block us from what we are experiencing. Are we all experiencing something that is not there? Are primary qualities not existent?

I'm sick of hearing shit like this. The bible isn't some fucking book that 'a bunch of guys' just decided to write for a 'pratical joke'. It is several books that started as an oral tradition, the mythology, folklore, history and legal documents of a society.

Yes, but how did all these oral traditions and myths come together as the bible? And for what purpose? This is what is important.

In that case Life is appropriate. It is applied energy, after all how could there be any ability to work without life. Life is energy!

Even if I gave you that much, it does not mean that energy is life. And I thought that was what you were originally making the point of.

Why must individual experience block us from what we are experiencing.

I didn't suggest that.

Are we all experiencing something that is not there? Are primary qualities not existent?

Are we? How can you tell, when your perception is subjective?

Alright, fine, I guess you can say that an omnipotent being that doesn't exist can make itself exist, since it's omnipotent...

But that's just getting asinine...

But god is also (supposedly) perfect and to most (Anslem) perfection must entail existence. Therefore, an entity would not be god if it did not exist. To Shuu: anything may be possible within god, but if an entity does not meet the definition of god, it is not god.

I didn't suggest that.



Are we? How can you tell, when your perception is subjective?

Continuing existence and intersubjective verification. If I was not experiencing something outside of myself, then it seems these would not hold up.

Some have proposed how these (continued existence and intersubjective verification) may be possible, such as Berkeley using God's eternal perception...but that is taking on a whole new beast and even Berkeley stated that his philosophy of idealism would be inane to any reader that did not believe in god (by his definition).

Continuing existence and intersubjective verification.

Is your expereince of this verification somehow not subjective?

If I was not experiencing something outside of myself, then it seems these would not hold up.

Appearances could be deceiving.

Also, I never implied that there was no outside source of your experience. I simply questioned how you can know reality objectively, when you only percieve it subjectively.

Believe what? That humans (normally) have 23 pairs of chromosomes?

Yes. I was meant to follow your response up with some subjective reality argument, but I've forgotten what it is. I'm not arguing against the fact that humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes.

Satan--the devil--does not exist, nor do heaven or hell. Yet millions of people believe in those things.

Truth is not something to be determined by popular vote. Truth just is, and can neither be proven nor disproven.


lol wut?

The devil does exist and he sure has succeeded at deceiving you.

Also, I never implied that there was no outside source of your experience. I simply questioned how you can know reality objectively, when you only percieve it subjectively.

Again your language seems to denote that you think subjectivity is some sort of hindrance. "when you ONLY perceive it subjectively". How else could something 'perceive' something else? The only way to define, within a system, the system's objective reality, is within the system itself. I use my own perceptions, along with all others' perceptions to come to an understanding of what is real (not only a perception) or not real (only a mental perception, with no retaining object outside of my mind) within the system. For instance, if I were on shrooms, I may have a perception of seeing a cat, but I will not be able to touch it and it will not be able to touch me, scratch me, etc and others will not verify that it is there. Individual perception is not a hindrance, but a gathering of possibility information. If you take solipsism to be true, then we are working with two different concepts of what reality is or may be defined by and we can't really move on from there.

lol wut?

The devil does exist and he sure has succeeded at deceiving you.

Orr you've been deceived on the former. Wouldn't an evil spirit deceiving your cognitions conflict with god supposedly giving us free will?

Okay, let's take a simple and mundane example. I had a bowl of Life cereal for breakfast this morning. I know this is true--but I cannot prove this assertion, nor can anyone else disprove it.

You could film it...

prove that the stool sample came from arms
prove that whatever you find in there is life cereal
prove that the sample even exists

Prove your not a douche bag....

Some things are self-evident.

...why would he let millions of people believe in him, worship him and dedicated their lives to him in vain?

he is an answer to a unanswerable question

Prove your not a douche bag....

Some things are self-evident.

The problem is arms made a statement of: truth cannot be proven, nor disproven. Then he sidestepped an important question and gave us a tricky situation (prove he ate something that morning). But to make the point, we need something that SHOULD be easily provable or disprovable as an example, not something that would be difficult...since this is supposed to apply to all instances of truth. I think his example only may show that truth can SOMETIMES be impossible to prove or disprove...and this much is already obvious.

Truth is an illusion of the mind. Truth,like reality, depends upon the individual.

or in a more easier to understand version

truth in perception