How come religious peoples constantly bitch about "non-believers"? Many religious texts also make the non-believers look like they're the fucking devil. Why is that? Is it because they see us as a threat? Do they really care if we go to hell? And if they do, why do they want to boil our eyes and rip our skin from our flesh deep down inside?

If you look at certain passages from certain religious writings (which I won't cite cause I'm better than the rest of you), they don't seem to exhibit as much hate against other religions as they do to against non-believers. Like, Christians and Muslims do hate each other, but can get along considering the fact that they both somewhat follow the same idiotic religion. However, both of those groups will hate non-believers more than each other.

Of course they will not admit this and give you the ol' God loves everyone line. But heaven forbid we don't convert to their religion!! Otherwise we will exist in pure pain for all eternity while they eat fruit and get even more stupid from everlasting boredom at God's side.

Someone care to explain to me what the big deal is with people not believing? What if in 1000 years everyone on earth is an atheist. How will that change anything? Will God throw a hissy fit and flood the earth with his emo tears for the 2nd time? Oh noez! Heaven forbid that happens! Quickly everyone! Get on the rolfcopter and let's be stupid all over again.

Seriously, give it a rest. Non-believers aren't evil.

Seriously, give it a rest. Non-believers aren't evil.

Fucking truth man. But it works both ways ... not all believers fit those stereotypes.

not all believers fit those stereotypes.

I know, I know. Just my style of writing. Will get the ones that are, agitated. Makes better, fiery discussion. :D

Will get the ones that are, agitated.

Yes, it will. But is that a good thing? Is it going to persuade people to see the error of their ways and want to change, or will it promote more angry blathering about 'right' and 'wrong'?

Looks like we could both guess the answer:

Makes better, fiery discussion. :D

Why do some religious people not like atheists? Well first of all, I doubt it has anything to do with how individuals act, but with big sweeping generalizations.

Some atheists (like you, for example) will declare that all/most religious people have the same undesirable character traits, and they all fit neatly into one box.

I am sure, on the other side of the coin, some religious people will declare that all/most atheists have the same undesirable character traits, and they all fit neatly into one box.

That is probably why.

Who's right, or more-right? The asshole-theists or the asshole-atheists?

Probably neither group. Both groups probably have a large number of assholes, and a smaller number of people who just really don't care what others think.

Well no, actually I don't really care whether people believe or not, nor do I care what they believe in if they do. That is something completely personal. Outside of a bunch of frustrated teenagers, you hardly hear non-believers ever make any noise about religious people. Yet you constantly hear shit from religious people about the non-believers. Just look at the fuss from the recent legalization of gay marriage in California. Why should religious people care if a bunch of gays get happy from marrying each other? Because it goes against their beliefs? That's pretty counter-productive. Paying taxes also goes against my beliefs, maybe I should go live on the moon. Yep, great fucking logic.

Outside of a bunch of frustrated teenagers, you hardly hear non-believers ever make any noise about religious people. Yet you constantly hear shit from religious people about the non-believers.

According to who? Are you the ultimate authority on that?

I do agree with you, but obviously the problem is not confined to theism.

Why should religious people care if a bunch of gays get happy from marrying each other?

I'm not saying that they should.

Yep, great fucking logic.

"You're illogical" is a silly argument to use. For instance:

"Why do you cut down tree's for tables, when you have perfectly good belly's to eat off of?? Thats not logical!!"

You're illogical.

I sure am. So is the rest of reality.

http://snoopy.justgotowned.com/

How come religious peoples constantly bitch about "non-believers"?

Someone care to explain to me what the big deal is with people not believing? .

Gladly. Many people labor under rhe delusion that God wants something--adulation, worship, the foreskins of newborn males, whatever. Sadly for humanity, many of them believe that they have a holy obligation to cram their misconceptions down the throats of everyone else.

The sooner that more people realize the simple and logical fact that God wants nothing of us, requires nothing--is, in fact, in business to GIVE and not get , the better off we all will be.

Gladly. Many people labor under rhe delusion that God wants something--adulation, worship, the foreskins of newborn males, whatever. Sadly for humanity, many of them believe that they have a holy obligation to cram their misconceptions down the throats of everyone else.

The sooner that more people realize the simple and logical fact that God wants nothing of us, requires nothing--is, in fact, in business to GIVE and not get , the better off we all will be.

I'm feeling this, and understand it very well. But you have to realize this is just wishful thinking. We're very far away from that state. Maybe if everyone was enlightened. But even then, some people would still claim to be "more" enlightened than others.

I've had people however state to my face how much they and their God despise my "non-believer" kind. (I don't personally like the word atheist because it gets associated with people I have nothing to do with.) I want to hear from those people what drives them to hate me for my lack of their beliefs or similar beliefs to theirs. As I said, they don't seem to hate people of other religions as they hate people who just don't believe in God at all.

edit: they sort of look at me as if I have no moral values and ethics just because I'm not a believer.

People hate because unfortunately most people are hateful. Generally speaking zealots will preach this because they believe in absolutes and their brand of thinking and interpretation of their religion tends to cast people in a black and white light: the enlightened and the unenlightened, the saved and the damned, the glorious and the detestable. It's also frustration in some cases: if you believe you have all the answers and have a particularly dominating or righteous (in the negative, self-righteous sense, not the good sense) personality, you're going to get impatient with people who don't agree with you.

Same deal as when atheists go on and on about the stupid, unenlightened religious people -- sure, some want some reasonable discourse or a good philosophical discussion, but alot of them take things to that whole black-and-white zone. Not to mention what a "non-believer" is is horrifically malleable: among the Jews, for example, there is a sect which renounces the Oral law and states that only the scriptures (old testament) is the law, thus to them the other Jews are unbelievers at worst, heretics at best. To the Jehovah's Witnesses, other Christians are non-believers as they are "clearly" ignorant as to the true text. Look at the terminology people use for this sort of thing in religion: Christianity, for example, originally had distinctions for Jews, Christians they didn't agree with due to doctrinal issues, pagans who had never heard The Word, pagans who had and were obdurate, apostates and atheists. Islam preserves some of the terminology as well, but people love redefining the terminology.

As to the fate of non-believers, don't over-generalize: plenty of religions do not ascribe horrible fates to the unbeliever. Christianity itself varies -- originally everyone before Christ was said to've gone to hell, then you had Origen claiming that reincarnation might've happened before the Fathers cast him out of the early Church, then the mainline changed and said that those who had not heard the word of Christ could not be unjustly punished by it, then some said that the deeds were more valuable than the ceremonies and convictions, etc. Now you've got all sorts of variables from those -- everything from the original "all those who do not hear go to hell" to "everyone is saved in the end" to "the good are saved but the unrighteous shall not suffer" (annihilationism: the idea that God will destroy the unrighteous who are beyond salvation at the End, because there's no point in punishing them for that) to CS Lewis' "all the good done is done in my name". In Judaism the afterlife itself is up to debate and in Islam you've got everything from "have fun in hell all non muslims" to "have fun in hell all non-Muslims, except Jews, Christians and Manacheans (children of the Book)" to a very few liberal Muslims that have the same "deeds over creeds" point of view. Then there's Hinduism and Buddhism (not insignificant religions numerically) where they generally couldn't care less -- and even those who do would tend to fall back on karma, which does not require that you be a hindu or Buddhist, merely a good person. Unfortunately it's the loudest and bitchiest who we tend to remember.

How come religious peoples constantly bitch about "non-believers"?


I can't say I've ever really experienced this. Maybe amongst themselves, but I don't hear it personally.


Many religious texts also make the non-believers look like they're the fucking devil. Why is that?


Hmm, I'm not exactly sure, other than it gives them reason to want to 'turn' them. I don't honestly think most think non-believers are evil or whatnot, just that non-believers have either not been introduced to their "good word" or they have not opened themselves up to "the grace of god" or... they are atheists because they resent god on some level. Moreso, I see them labeling people as evil that make abuses against god, ie abortion, etc.



Do they really care if we go to hell?

I would say so. They believe any non-believer will go to hell and that it is their duty to 'turn' these people so they will not suffer in the eternal depths of hell.



Like, Christians and Muslims do hate each other, but can get along considering the fact that they both somewhat follow the same idiotic religion. However, both of those groups will hate non-believers more than each other.

This has some merit to it. I remember in a recent poll, where the most distrusted group in the U.S. was atheists, even above Muslims who are now highly associated in the minds of Americans with terrorism. I think this definitely says something. Also, when you hear as to one reason why Muslims might resent the west, it is not because they are Christian, but rather because they are secular and progressively more atheist.


Someone care to explain to me what the big deal is with people not believing? What if in 1000 years everyone on earth is an atheist. How will that change anything? Will God throw a hissy fit and flood the earth with his emo tears for the 2nd time? Oh noez! Heaven forbid that happens! Quickly everyone! Get on the rolfcopter and let's be stupid all over again.


No, it wouldn't change anything on earth, but believers think that this will mean that all of those 'souls' would end up in hell. In reality, they should be for VHEMT (Voluntary Human Extinction Movement), so not one more soul could end up in hell.

Why should religious people care if a bunch of gays get happy from marrying each other? Because it goes against their beliefs? That's pretty counter-productive. Paying taxes also goes against my beliefs, maybe I should go live on the moon. Yep, great fucking logic.

You don't have to go live on the moon. You speak to your leaders in office and hopefully get things changed. And yes, you do this because it is your belief. The difference is does your believe have any validity to it; is it pragmatic or applicable? If they say they don't want it because the bible says it's wrong, well that is really irrelevant. Nonetheless, this is a democracy and we have to deal with them being the majority....unless you want to become a militant atheist!

In reality, they should be for VHEMT (Voluntary Human Extinction Movement), so not one more soul could end up in hell.

Something tells me that would fall under the Suicide Clause, and they'd still be on the fast-track to the fiery furnace.

Nina Paley's (http://www.vhemt.org/paley.htm) gonna burn, for sure - VHEMT activist spewing heresy in a cartoon medium ... :o

where the fuck have you been? you're not snoopy....

How come religious peoples constantly bitch about "non-believers"? Many religious texts also make the non-believers look like they're the fucking devil. Why is that? Is it because they see us as a threat? Do they really care if we go to hell? And if they do, why do they want to boil our eyes and rip our skin from our flesh deep down inside?

If you look at certain passages from certain religious writings (which I won't cite cause I'm better than the rest of you), they don't seem to exhibit as much hate against other religions as they do to against non-believers. Like, Christians and Muslims do hate each other, but can get along considering the fact that they both somewhat follow the same idiotic religion. However, both of those groups will hate non-believers more than each other.

Of course they will not admit this and give you the ol' God loves everyone line. But heaven forbid we don't convert to their religion!! Otherwise we will exist in pure pain for all eternity while they eat fruit and get even more stupid from everlasting boredom at God's side.

Someone care to explain to me what the big deal is with people not believing? What if in 1000 years everyone on earth is an atheist. How will that change anything? Will God throw a hissy fit and flood the earth with his emo tears for the 2nd time? Oh noez! Heaven forbid that happens! Quickly everyone! Get on the rolfcopter and let's be stupid all over again.

Seriously, give it a rest. Non-believers aren't evil.

Your question is a good one. For awhile I wondered what this meant. I came to a conclusion one that is not literal but metaphorical:

The Join us part...

To join in the search for God this spiritual seekers felt was more important for a person than just living a mundane worldly life. This does not necessarily mean the life of asceticism, one does not need to become an ascetic in order to experience God. However, they felt that doing something to get to God was important. Each religion had different ways of doing this, so they say Join or else (excluding Judaism b/c that goes against the covenant with Yahweh).

... Or Burn In Hell! Part

I find it that the burn in hell piece is not literal (regardless of explicitness) but rather something like a Buddhist type of thing if you do not try to get back to God than you will continue to live in the mundane world of suffering and bondage. Bondage to your desires and emotions and thoughts and preconceived beliefs... etc.

So I find it that Hell, is here and Heaven is here... This is the point where they either meet (not physically) or that we are already in Hell and we need to call Heaven into our life and bring it into the world around us.

Now, as time goes on a people FORGET that this is not a literal message that you:

"Had Better Do It or Some Big Guy with a White Beard is going to Shit all over your face."

but rather

"Search for God, Join Us, Help End your suffering and the show compassion to those around you. If you don't you will only continue to be swept away by worldly desires and feelings and thoughts that lead you away from God."

This is the way of God... This is the plan... To reunite to what God is and not what we have been told God is... This is not some physical (e.g. End times) shit but a spiritual message of you looking within yourself to get back to God.

THEY SAY ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, TO STRESS THE IMPORTANCE OF GETTING BACK TO GOD! Let us not forget that this is truth wrapped in myth... It never really happened (if you think it did that you are caught in time and space and are only listening to dogma) but it does always happen. They need to use strong language to stress the importance of things and "Join us or Burn" is a strong language to stress the importance.

Today the world is different we hear that and say "OMG" but we need a modern translation that we in our more rational world can understand. For God's sake please stop thinking that this story is stuck in time and space. Its not... What happens in the Bible happens every second perhaps not as explicit but nonetheless it happens.

Understand that Christ is representative of Buddha or Krishna (or was it Atman). That these represent the higher selves not our mundane worldly self as the rest of the "non-holy" characters in the bible represent. The disciples or followers represent those who gave up the world in pursuit to learn and know how to get back to God.

Its a metaphor for Joining in the Pursuit to End Suffering or Continue down the Path of Suffering. Their is more than one way to do this: God is Love after all and love is all encompassing. One tradition is not enough to end the suffering.

Live and let live. I mean, fuck, do you hate people who believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy? It's almost the same thing. Oh, no waaay, you don't believe in Santa Claus?

I just feel indifferent of whatever people believe, but I still think most religions cause more problems than what they solve; but hey, I don't belong in any so it's cool. As long as they don't interfere with my life, I think it's ok.

Being an atheist, I still respect people, have moral and ethic values for the most part, so why should I be considered evil? I haven't raped children like God-believing mighty savant Catholic priests tend to do. I haven't blown shit up and beheaded people because other people have different beliefs that I do.

People living happy productive lives without religion, while helping to do the same to others is basically poison to religion.

People living happy productive lives without religion, while helping to do the same to others is basically poison to religion.

You see every time I am on this forum I always feel like people associate religion and spirituality as the same things. Religion definately has the potential to cause conflict, without a shadow of a doubt. Spirituality though is really living in what you believe.

Spirituality = Spirit = The Spirit Bloweth Where It Listeth => It goes where it wants it is not confined it is free. Christ was Spiritual not religious in fact you see his many antithesis's when he hammers down on the Pharisee's, Teachers of the Law, Sadducee's etc... Proving to me that Christ was against formalized religion in the first place, that Christianity was not supposed to become this which we know today.

Religion = Laws, Dogma, Doctrine = Conflict and Heretics

Their are no heretics in the spiritual realm because, they all aspire to the same thing... God or Enlightenment or Nirvana... They only have different ways of doing it. So yeah I agree with you that: "People living happy productive lives without religion, while helping to do the same to others" is poison to *religion*

-----------------------------------------

Live and let live. I mean, fuck, do you hate people who believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy? It's almost the same thing. Oh, no waaay, you don't believe in Santa Claus?

I just feel indifferent of whatever people believe, but I still think most religions cause more problems than what they solve; but hey, I don't belong in any so it's cool. As long as they don't interfere with my life, I think it's ok.

Being an atheist, I still respect people, have moral and ethic values for the most part, so why should I be considered evil? I haven't raped children like God-believing mighty savant Catholic priests tend to do. I haven't blown shit up and beheaded people because other people have different beliefs that I do.

I didnt just write this whole mini-essay for a person to come to that conclusion... That I hate Unbelievers... I say it once I say it again, my closest friend is an atheist I dont hate him and we get along just fine.

Read what I said above about religion and spirituality in this same post.

These people all are under the whims of religious rules, doctrines, dogma... Its traditional god forbid tradition is threatened. Their are new ways, If God (The Trinity) is eternal and immortal than they are forever young, their is novelty in God because we are ignorant of him. All religions start out as spiritual experiences, the trick is to not turn into a religion that is bounded up in religious dogma and doctrine. To be loose allows for the spirit to move around and allow God to come into the world.

The Roman Catholic Priests are different than other priests. Keep this in mind that if you see a priest do not assume he got head or some shit from a little boy. Not all priests are like that, priests can get married... In the Gnostic Tradition marriage is welcomed (Gnostics believe that Christ and Mary were a couple, because of that than The Clergy can have marriage as well). Also, unlike mainstream Christianity the unorthodox have much more interaction between laity and clergy.

So just keep in mind that:

Just because, they are extremists in a theistic belief this does not mean all theists are extremist. If you think that way you are not an atheist but the arrogant "popular atheists" thinking they own reason and logic. I tell you the truth that way of thinking is flawed, I believe the award to the fallacy of composition or division goes to the popular rendition of atheism.

You see every time I am on this forum I always feel like people associate religion and spirituality as the same things. Religion definately has the potential to cause conflict, without a shadow of a doubt. Spirituality though is really living in what you believe.

This^^^
It's the way the majority tend to use the word religion. Most use it in reference to 'a' religion, or more accurately it is used to describe church organisations and their dogma. However the word religion has other interpretations:
Religion, to us, means that intuitional realization of the existence of THE ALL, and one's relationship to it; while Theology means the attempts of men to ascribe personality, qualities, and characteristics to it; their theories regarding its affairs, will, desires, plans, and designs, and their assumption of the office of ''middle-men'' between THE ALL and the people. Philosophy, to us, means the inquiry after knowledge of things knowable and thinkable; while Metaphysical means the attempt to carry the inquiry over and beyond the boundaries and into regions unknowable and unthinkable, and with the same tendency as that of Theology. And consequently, both Religion and Philosophy mean to us things having roots in Reality, while Theology and Metaphysics seem like broken reeds, rooted in the quicksands of ignorance, and affording naught but the most insecure support for the mind or soul of Man. (The Kybalion Chapter IV)

This^^^

It's the way the majority tend to use the word religion. Most use it in reference to 'a' religion, or more accurately it is used to describe church organizations and their dogma. However the word religion has other interpretations:

Thank you...

All religion is; is people trying to define the inexpressible. So all religious conflicts are fought over definitions. How do you define the inexpressible? Well, if you fight over definitions, than stop defining it and just experience it. This is what spirituality is about. Each western religion has their spiritual side:

Christianity -> Spiritual Christians --> Mystics, Rosicrucian, Christian Gnostic's

Islam -> Spiritual Muslims --> Sufi's

Judaism -> Spiritual Jews --> Kabbalists

Cant speak for those in the religion of Islam or Judaism, but in my travels that is the more spiritual side to their religion that I have encountered.