Preparation of Sodium GHB using Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda, NaHCO3)
Written by Chromic

Add 273 g NaHCO3 (3.25 moles) to 1125 mL distilled water in a glass container. Slowly bring the solution to a boil while stirring with a glass rod or similar. All of the baking soda will dissolve. Carbon dioxide will be seen leaving the solution as it comes to a boil. This is the sodium bicarbonate breaking down into a slightly strong base, sodium carbonate:

2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2

Reduce the heat to a light boil, and slowly add 250ml gamma-Butyrolactone (280g, 3.25 moles). The addition is not immediately exothermic as with the sodium hydroxide synthesis. Keep this solution at a light boil for 30 minutes. Check the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH around 7, but anything 6 to 8 is perfectly safe. If the pH is too high, add a small amount more GBL and continue to reflux.

The solution will be perfectly clear and should be absolutely colorless. If it is not perfectly colorless, i.e. if slightly impure butyrolactone was used and the solution has taken on a light yellow color, add about 100 mL of activated charcoal. Allow this to boil for 10 minutes. Cool the solution then filter, washing the activated charcoal two or three times with 50 ml portions of cold water. 410g of NaGHB will be made in this synthesis. This solution can be concentrated to about 50% NaGHB before it will start to crystallize. If you wish for a powder, heat until the temperature of the solution reaches 150°C then pour onto a flexible metal sheet and allow it to cool and solidify.

This synthesis is perfect for use where there is no ACS, Food or Electronics grade sodium hydroxide available.


Out of a total of 125mL of GBL availible, I wish to use half of it so I don't mess up all 125mL in the reaction (62.5mL for this reaction). Would I simply divide the amount of baking soda by 4 (as the total of GBL in above synthesis is 250mL but 62.5mL wishes to be used) to get the correct molecular blahblah?

So:
250mL GBL/4 = 62.5mL
273g baking soda/4=68.25g
should equal 410g GHB/4=102.5g GBH

If baking soda were to be used, would the dosage be the same versus GHB made by sodium hydroxide??

Thanks.

Hypothetically someone tried this exact bit of text and used:

54.6g NaHCO3 to 225ml distilled water,
49ml gamma butyrolactone, your figures look right to me, I tried working out the figure using mr(s) etc and moles first, and then I double checked by going back

However it didn't fully crystallise, the surface layer did but would not thicken to more than a 1mm crust.

dissolving the NaHCO3:http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00382xr0.jpg

Adding the GBL:
http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00384kn8.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00385qp6.jpg

Testing pH:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1563/dsc00386yv0.th.jpg

Heating to ~150C and cooling down:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3473/dsc00389jr5.th.jpg

Good luck!

Would I simply divide the amount of baking soda by 4 to get the correct molecular blahblah?

Yep, its a simple 1:1 molar ratio. What you do to one side, do to the other.


So:
250mL GBL

250ml of GBL is 286g by my calculations (1.144g/ml) so it'd be roughly 3.32214336 moles, which would obviously change the quantity of sodium bicarbonate just very slightly.

If baking soda were to be used, would the dosage be the same versus GHB made by sodium hydroxide??

Should be absolutely no different, dosage would obviously rely on mass, and molecular mass would be altered by different atoms, Na GHB, K GHB etc etc, and in this case, NaOH and Na2CO3 both provide the same tasty sodium atom.

Out of a total of 125mL of GBL availible, I wish to use half of it so I don't mess up all 125mL in the reaction (62.5mL for this reaction). Would I simply divide the amount of baking soda by 4 (as the total of GBL in above synthesis is 250mL but 62.5mL wishes to be used) to get the correct molecular blahblah?

So:
250mL GBL/4 = 62.5mL
273g baking soda/4=68.25g
should equal 410g GHB/4=102.5g GBH

If baking soda were to be used, would the dosage be the same versus GHB made by sodium hydroxide??

Thanks.

Aren't you supposed to be in jail? Link me to an explanation or post it here.

K, so how much baking soda for 62.5mL of GBL?


^^^I go to court in a while and they will tell me then. My PO tried to scare me by saying one month. Not true.

K, so how much baking soda for 62.5mL of GBL?


I'd just written out a fucking huge reply to this, and upon pressing post, I got an error message and couldn't get my post back. So my apologies if I can't be arsed to write it all out again. :mad:

Thats asking for spoon feeding man, which isn't going to help you in the long run. I'll try to talk you through the calculation required, its fairly imperative to any practical chemistry.

I have no idea how detailed your chemistry knowledge is, so I apologise if I seem patronising or keep saying the fucking obvious.

Right, you're gonna work out how many moles of GBL there are in 62.5ml, then apply the molar ratio, convert it to the moles of sodium bicarbonate, and work it backwards to find the mass. Its bloody easy, even I can do it. :)

First convert the volume of GBL to a mass of GBL. Simply multiply the volume by the specific density.

Next substitute in known values into the formula; Moles = (mass/Mr). You've just worked out the mass, and the Mr can be easily worked out from the chemical formula, or from various other sources if you're lazy. On wikipedia, its referred to as a 'Molar Mass'.

Now you have the moles of GBL. Due to the fact that it is a 1:1 molar ratio, this, cunningly enough, is also the moles of sodium bicarbonate. 1 mole of GBL reacts with 1 mole of sodium bicarbonate. You therefore simply substitute known values back in to the formula, but this time to find the mass.

If you suck at rearranging, just work it out first with known values, e.g. 10 = X/2, therefore to find X, its obviously 10 x 2.

Presto, you have the mass of sodium bicarbonate which will react with your volume of GBL. If you're still really unsure, just post what you got and I'll check it. :)

I'd just written out a fucking huge reply to this, and upon pressing post, I got an error message and couldn't get my post back. So my apologies if I can't be arsed to write it all out again. :mad:

Thats asking for spoon feeding man, which isn't going to help you in the long run. I'll try to talk you through the calculation required, its fairly imperative to any practical chemistry.

Ya, that is kinda my point

I have no idea how detailed your chemistry knowledge is, so I apologise if I seem patronising or keep saying the fucking obvious.

Right, you're gonna work out how many moles of GBL there are in 62.5ml, then apply the molar ratio, convert it to the moles of sodium bicarbonate, and work it backwards to find the mass. Its bloody easy, even I can do it. :)

First convert the volume of GBL to a mass of GBL. Simply multiply the volume by the specific density.

62.5x1.1=68.8

Next substitute in known values into the formula; Moles = (mass/Mr). You've just worked out the mass, and the Mr can be easily worked out from the chemical formula, or from various other sources if you're lazy. On wikipedia, its referred to as a 'Molar Mass'.

68.8/86.1=0.81

Now you have the moles of GBL. Due to the fact that it is a 1:1 molar ratio, this, cunningly enough, is also the moles of sodium bicarbonate. 1 mole of GBL reacts with 1 mole of sodium bicarbonate. You therefore simply substitute known values back in to the formula, but this time to find the mass.

If you suck at rearranging, just work it out first with known values, e.g. 10 = X/2, therefore to find X, its obviously 10 x 2.

Presto, you have the mass of sodium bicarbonate which will react with your volume of GBL. If you're still really unsure, just post what you got and I'll check it. :)


Uh, I have the 0.81, what do I do with that to get the mass of sodium bicarb? You said "sub known values back into the formula", what is the formula?

Thanks.

Uh, I have the 0.81, what do I do with that to get the mass of sodium bicarb? You said "sub known values back into the formula", what is the formula?

Thanks.

Its still Moles = (mass/Mr) , that same formula is used for nearly any molar calculation, unless the reactants are in solution and you only know the concentration.

so to substitute, it would be

0.808 = (mass/84)

*COUGH*

http://www.mediafire.com/?olv9m12xram

*COUGH*

http://www.mediafire.com/?olv9m12xram


^Yep, that's the one !! It's the best, most simplistic (in that it uses the heat produced by the NaOH addition to water (goes up to about 90c and steaming) to kick the reaction off, it then is an exothermic reaction itself and so generates more heat which causes the reaction to speed up thus generating more heat and so and so on) and is the most reliable out there producing perfectly neutral G if done correctly.

Can be done start to finish (sitting down with a brew and all packed away) in 30mins.

^Yep, that's the one !! It's the best, most simplistic (in that it uses the heat produced by the NaOH addition to water (goes up to about 90c and steaming) to kick the reaction off, it then is an exothermic reaction itself and so generates more heat which causes the reaction to speed up thus generating more heat and so and so on) and is the most reliable out there producing perfectly neutral G if done correctly.

Can be done start to finish (sitting down with a brew and all packed away) in 30mins.

The reason people are so interested in the sodium bircarb version is because is it far easier to get 'food grade' sodium bicarbonate than it is to get sodium hydroxide.

And I hope you don't mind me posting this recipe UK_TOM: ;)


A much, much simpler method that can be done from start to finish in 20 mins (all washed up and cleared away, sitting on the sofa with a cigarette...) is as follows:

NOTE: Gloves and eye protection really are necessary. Also, have a plan for any spillages, splashes onto skin and other mishaps - Work in a clean area.

1. Measure 25ml GBL into a 100ml conical flask.
2. Measure 11ml of DRY NaOH (approx 12g but 11ml works apparently well using regular NaOH)
3. Pour the NaOH into 20ml of dH2O and stir immediately (...or it form a hard lump that will be a bitch to break and disolve). Stir until all is disolved - approx 2 mins.
WARNING! This will get very hot indeed, approx 90c and will steam.
4. Immediately pour ALL of the NaOH solution into the 100ml flask that contains the 25ml GBL.

=> Two layers will form, the NaOH solution on the bottom, a milky white and the GBL clear and sitting on top. No reaction will be visibly taking place.

5. Every 30 seconds or so, swirl the flask (DO NOT shake or cap off the flask!). Swirling is best done on top of a cloth on a flat surface so the flask is not lifted into the air and swirled rather the whole flask is swirled whilst in contact with a cloth (carpet works very well!))

6. Continue swirling every 30 seconds for 15 seconds or so for about 5 mins in total (until the reaction takes off).

=> One will notice changes after each session of swirling, first it will begin to get hotter, bubbles will begin to form in the gbl and condensation will appear on the inner flask walls. Eventually steam will be seen emitting from the flasks opening.

7. It will get to a point after about 4 or 5 minutes where a point will be reached where the balance is tipped in favour of the reaction, this occurs when it reaches a certain temperature. When it reaches this point a self-sustained reaction will kick in and the gbl will boil itself out for 10 - 15 seconds. Loads of steam will be coming out of the top and it will be boiling and bubbling quite vigorously. It can all be quite unnerving but doesn't last long.

8. There will be a smell of GHB in the air (which is unmistakable) and if one looks at the flask the original two layers will have become 1 clean, clear solution. IT WILL BE VERY HOT!!!

9. Test the pH - It normally never fails and should be a perfect neutral.
10. Allow to cool for 5 mins. Mix with 55ml of water to make it up to 100ml in total (Most people make up to 200ml as it makes SMALL dosing a little easier.). Add a little blue food colouring in order to prevent accidental drinking/prevent the dosing of someone unawares - although the salt taste should make this impossible anyway. Mix well.

11.a. Filter through a coffee filter into a sterile bottle and label appropriately.

11.b. DO A FINAL pH TEST!

12. Wash everything up, tidy up and have a smoke. Keep any chemicals locked up and safe.

* Dosage: Try 5ml first and allow a good 30 minutes for the effects to begin. Mixed with apple and blackcurrant cordial and a little water makes it easier to drink. It tastes salty and quite rank.

*Be careful with it and don't do anything stupid.

*Treat ALL drugs with the respect they are due.

KTHKXBAI

5. Every 30 seconds or so, swirl the flask (DO NOT shake or cap off the flask!). Swirling is best done on top of a cloth on a flat surface so the flask is not lifted into the air and swirled rather the whole flask is swirled whilst in contact with a cloth (carpet works very well!))


Yeah so that it soaks the cloth and with condensation mixes with humidity and fries your skin... good idea indeed.


=> One will notice changes after each session of swirling, first it will begin to get hotter, bubbles will begin to form in the gbl and condensation will appear on the inner flask walls. Eventually steam will be seen emitting from the flasks opening.


If not capped, condensation happens OUT of sources of heat first. Wanna do that reaction with a cap ? Good luck, and say hello to your soon-to-be-missing hand.


7. It will get to a point after about 4 or 5 minutes where a point will be reached where the balance is tipped in favour of the reaction, this occurs when it reaches a certain temperature. When it reaches this point a self-sustained reaction will kick in and the gbl will boil itself out for 10 - 15 seconds. Loads of steam will be coming out of the top and it will be boiling and bubbling quite vigorously. It can all be quite unnerving but doesn't last long.


What is this ? Alchemy ? "Look at what happens and proceed" ?


8. There will be a smell of GHB in the air (which is unmistakable) and if one looks at the flask the original two layers will have become 1 clean, clear solution. IT WILL BE VERY HOT!!!


Newsflash : GHB is odorless.


9. Test the pH - It normally never fails and should be a perfect neutral.
10. Allow to cool for 5 mins. Mix with 55ml of water to make it up to 100ml in total (Most people make up to 200ml as it makes SMALL dosing a little easier.). Add a little blue food colouring in order to prevent accidental drinking/prevent the dosing of someone unawares - although the salt taste should make this impossible anyway. Mix well.


What a gross ripoff from the hive. You didn't even bother remove the warning and almost copied it word for word.


*Be careful with it and don't do anything stupid.


Like trying this shit...

Rofl at the black pope constantly needing his hand held.

Rofl at the black pope constantly needing his hand held.

You would too if you knew next to no chemistry at all.

Skipped all the crying and bitching above because this need to be said:

Unless you have PURE (tech grade) NaOH do not EVEN THINK about using it! :mad: Dunno about you but i do not like to add extra crap in my body. Baking soda is also easier to come by and cheaper. My cat has tried both and the only different notice is that the one made with NaOH seems to grab moisture from the air a bit more quickly, no change in potency or whatnot.

Now what would be intresting would be to try different salts of it (Li,Na etc...) or possibly even another type of lactone, can`t remenber the correct name of it but rhodium tried one called veralacatone or something like that, 15% stronger then the "regular" one, worth a shot as the precusor for it are much more easliy sourced (sugar cane anyone?).

More info and stuff wheni can access my files :mad: :(

NaOH is actually used in cooking various types of food (at home) and there are food grades available, although I think people just use regular (98%+) NaOH. Very easy to find food grade NaOH online and I think about 2 to 4 times the price of regular NaOH.