Using this tech http://www.erowid.org/plants/mimosa/mimosa_chemistry1.shtml. I will number all of the points I'd like answered, and I'd appreciate it very much.

(1) Could someone explain each of the major steps in terms of the chemistry behind it? I'd like to know what each thing is doing so I can understand it better.

(2) When adding the naptha to the lye/water/bark mixture, it doesn't seem to actually mix with the stuff. It just immediately goes to the top. Since the guide says you should have to wait for the naptha layer to separate, is this normal?

(3) As well, when removing the naptha layer is it okay to have a little bit of the brown stuff from the other layer? It seems almost impossible to make sure every bit is gone. (4) I shouldn't see any particles in the naptha layer after removing should I? I'm assuming the DMT molecules are just dispersed in solution so much that you can't see them?

(5) The guide says to do steps 4-6 three more times, but this is a hell of a lot of naptha. That shit cost like $8 for 900~ mL. Is this right? Is it necessary? How much extra material do you get by doing this?

Thank you so much to whoever answers these questions.

I haven't actually done it, these questions are based on a video I saw. I'm actually taking chemistry at a local college so I've been kind of interested in everything chemistry, even though I don't plan on doing this.

Using this tech http://www.erowid.org/plants/mimosa/mimosa_chemistry1.shtml. I will number all of the points I'd like answered, and I'd appreciate it very much.

(1) Could someone explain each of the major steps in terms of the chemistry behind it? I'd like to know what each thing is doing so I can understand it better.

(2) When adding the naptha to the lye/water/bark mixture, it doesn't seem to actually mix with the stuff. It just immediately goes to the top. Since the guide says you should have to wait for the naptha layer to separate, is this normal?

(3) As well, when removing the naptha layer is it okay to have a little bit of the brown stuff from the other layer? It seems almost impossible to make sure every bit is gone. (4) I shouldn't see any particles in the naptha layer after removing should I? I'm assuming the DMT molecules are just dispersed in solution so much that you can't see them?

(5) The guide says to do steps 4-6 three more times, but this is a hell of a lot of naptha. That shit cost like $8 for 900~ mL. Is this right? Is it necessary? How much extra material do you get by doing this?

Thank you so much to whoever answers these questions.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/B_extraction
2. No, it doesn't actually mix any more than oil and water (read: non-polar and polar).
3. You will learn this in your chemistry course, but you use a separating funnel and let it out into 3 different containers: 2 containers have only the NP or P solvent and 1 will have a little of each.
4. No particles, you should filter.
5. I don't know how much more product you'd get from doing more washes, but if you were selling it, it would be worth it.

Wikipedia is a great source for simple terms, btw, as is a chem lab survival guide. Maybe someone could upload one for this fine OP? (and me... I can't find one anywhere:embarrassed:)

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/B_extraction
2. No, it doesn't actually mix any more than oil and water (read: non-polar and polar).
3. You will learn this in your chemistry course, but you use a separating funnel and let it out into 3 different containers: 2 containers have only the NP or P solvent and 1 will have a little of each.
4. No particles, you should filter.
5. I don't know how much more product you'd get from doing more washes, but if you were selling it, it would be worth it.

Wikipedia is a great source for simple terms, btw, as is a chem lab survival guide. Maybe someone could upload one for this fine OP? (and me... I can't find one anywhere:embarrassed:)

Wow thanks! I just didn't understand how the stuff could "get into" the naptha if it didn't mix. I know most of the terminology, I just don't have a separating funnel.

Thanks again for the answers.

Edit: Also, is naptha an acid? I don't see where the acid comes into play in this tek if it isn't.

Edit: Also, is naptha an acid? I don't see where the acid comes into play in this tek if it isn't.

No, the naptha is used to extract the DMT since DMT is not soluble in water. Naptha is a mixture of alkanes, and so is neither acidic nor basic.

As far as extra pulls go, I would recommend them; sometimes you get more product on a second or even third pull; otherwise it's quite a waste for just a single pull. If you get a substantially lower yield your second time, go for a third time and if results are similar just drop it. Otherwise, large batches (pounds of mimosa and up) usually go to 5 pulls or more. No matter how expensive your naptha is, I can promise that unless you live in Brazil, MHRB will be more expensive.

From the tek you used it looks like it's a straight to base rather than an A/B, so the acid doesn't come into play anywhere. :) Some teks have an acidification step before you add base to it (reading up on several DMT extraction teks is not only interesting but lets you learn the chemistry behind it indirectly [and then you get to answer the DMT questions in LT ;)]); this is to make it easier for the DMT to bond with the base and also gets rid of some of the excess gunk you'd rather not ingest (or maybe that's from a harmala extraction; memory's not up to par this late at night so you'll have to forgive me). The tek you're using (by far one of the simpler and easier ones) doesn't look like it needs acid ('cept to clean up lye spills, but that can be done with bicarb easily enough). So no acid is necessary because the DMT comes out easily enough with the base, although some of the professionals swear by the acid-first method, this is easy enough for the newbies.

No, the naptha is used to extract the DMT since DMT is not soluble in water. Naptha is a mixture of alkanes, and so is neither acidic nor basic.

As far as extra pulls go, I would recommend them; sometimes you get more product on a second or even third pull; otherwise it's quite a waste for just a single pull. If you get a substantially lower yield your second time, go for a third time and if results are similar just drop it. Otherwise, large batches (pounds of mimosa and up) usually go to 5 pulls or more. No matter how expensive your naptha is, I can promise that unless you live in Brazil, MHRB will be more expensive.

From the tek you used it looks like it's a straight to base rather than an A/B, so the acid doesn't come into play anywhere. :) Some teks have an acidification step before you add base to it (reading up on several DMT extraction teks is not only interesting but lets you learn the chemistry behind it indirectly [and then you get to answer the DMT questions in LT ;)]); this is to make it easier for the DMT to bond with the base and also gets rid of some of the excess gunk you'd rather not ingest (or maybe that's from a harmala extraction; memory's not up to par this late at night so you'll have to forgive me). The tek you're using (by far one of the simpler and easier ones) doesn't look like it needs acid ('cept to clean up lye spills, but that can be done with bicarb easily enough). So no acid is necessary because the DMT comes out easily enough with the base, although some of the professionals swear by the acid-first method, this is easy enough for the newbies.

Thanks for the good info! This forum is great. Is there any way to reuse the naptha from the first pull to do the second, third, etc?

Thanks for the good info! This forum is great. Is there any way to reuse the naptha from the first pull to do the second, third, etc?

Yes, distill it instead of evaporate.

Yes, distill it instead of evaporate.

I looked up distilling, and it looks like fairly complicated equipment is involved. Do you know of an easy way to make a distiller at home? Is it safe to heat Naptha? I was recently reading a guide on nitrocellulose and was heating sulfuric acid (turns out the guide was wrong), and I wouldn't want another mishap like that to happen. I realize we are dealing with different chemicals here, but I know naptha is flammable so I wouldn't want any fires or explosions starting.

Thanks

I looked up distilling, and it looks like fairly complicated equipment is involved. Do you know of an easy way to make a distiller at home? Is it safe to heat Naptha? I was recently reading a guide on nitrocellulose and was heating sulfuric acid (turns out the guide was wrong), and I wouldn't want another mishap like that to happen. I realize we are dealing with different chemicals here, but I know naptha is flammable so I wouldn't want any fires or explosions starting.

Thanks

I don't have any links to good home-made distillation setup, but moonshine stills are the same thing, so do a search for that. It is fairly safe to heat naptha if you do it cautiously. Never use an open flame, do it outside or in a very ventilated room, and watch it from the start till the finish. As long as it is outside (where fumes can't build up) and you use a hot plate, you should be fine. The boiling point is 320-430f and the autoignition point is 550f.

On the sulfuric acid, that reaction is exothermic (creates heat), and that is why heating it was such a bad idea. Heat increases the reaction speed, which increases the heat, and so on. For those types of reactions you should either have it in an ice bath or have an ice bath close by.

No, the naptha is used to extract the DMT since DMT is not soluble in water. Naptha is a mixture of alkanes, and so is neither acidic nor basic.

As far as extra pulls go, I would recommend them; sometimes you get more product on a second or even third pull; otherwise it's quite a waste for just a single pull. If you get a substantially lower yield your second time, go for a third time and if results are similar just drop it. Otherwise, large batches (pounds of mimosa and up) usually go to 5 pulls or more. No matter how expensive your naptha is, I can promise that unless you live in Brazil, MHRB will be more expensive.

From the tek you used it looks like it's a straight to base rather than an A/B, so the acid doesn't come into play anywhere. :) Some teks have an acidification step before you add base to it (reading up on several DMT extraction teks is not only interesting but lets you learn the chemistry behind it indirectly [and then you get to answer the DMT questions in LT ;)]); this is to make it easier for the DMT to bond with the base and also gets rid of some of the excess gunk you'd rather not ingest (or maybe that's from a harmala extraction; memory's not up to par this late at night so you'll have to forgive me). The tek you're using (by far one of the simpler and easier ones) doesn't look like it needs acid ('cept to clean up lye spills, but that can be done with bicarb easily enough). So no acid is necessary because the DMT comes out easily enough with the base, although some of the professionals swear by the acid-first method, this is easy enough for the newbies.

Actually DMT is water soluble in its natural state you pull the dmt into water first. Acid is added to aid the 'extraction' of the DMT. However, when base is added the DMT becomes a freebase and as such is not water soluble and is the principle behind the a/b (acid base extraction) - becoming insoluble in water it tries to leave and being now soluble in solvents, it gladly is received by the solvent waiting above (or below sometimes...). People use it as freebase but think some have turned it into a salt with acidification for injection.

easiest way is to boil some water pour it on top of powdered bark add some HCl until pH 2 or 3, shake and filter out the bark to repeat the extraction. Add base until the oil floats to the top, I think that's about pH 11. add solvent extract and put in freezer to crash the dmt out (works with naptha but not other solvent very well)

If one has a testube or suchlike (measuring cylinders are good) transfer the top layer of freebase oil (some polar will get in too) to the test-tube and suck up the oil and you then have dmt f/base oil which you can then recrystalise in suitable solvents (maybe ammonia/water but am guessing) to remove any trace crap.


*If Naphtha is used in the traditional manner, very little is needed. Am sure there will be info on how much dmt (mg)will dissolve in naphtha(ml) but 50ml will be plenty for a g or so.

Actually DMT is water soluble in its natural state you pull the dmt into water first. Acid is added to aid the 'extraction' of the DMT. However, when base is added the DMT becomes a freebase and as such is not water soluble and is the principle behind the a/b (acid base extraction) - becoming insoluble in water it tries to leave and being now soluble in solvents, it gladly is received by the solvent waiting above (or below sometimes...). People use it as freebase but think some have turned it into a salt with acidification for injection.

Ok, that makes so much more sense, thanks.

Well, * went to see how the extraction went, and * filtered * collection jar of naptha but alas, no good stuff was left in the filter. * Seriously don't know what could have went wrong.

* Added the 100g NaOH to 1500mL water, then added 100g of pulverized root bark. * Shook and let sit for an hour. Then, * added 950~ mL naptha, rolled it around gently a few times. Next, * used a bag with a hole in the bottom to separate layers, and then * put the naptha layer in the freezer and waited overnight.

Today, * came back and took the jar out. * Did wait a while after taking the jar out of the freezer, so could this have been the problem? After finding no good stuff, * just put the naptha back into the Base/Water/Bark mixture and left it.

* Hoping there's some way to rescue this, and hopefully figure out what * did wrong.

Well just realized used 10x the amount of naptha was supposed to, but still don't see how this could have messed it up completely.

Edit: Also, supposed to shake the mixture once adding naptha to it? The guide says not to, because an emulsion layer will form.

You should evaporate the naptha, then move on to the recrystallization step. Because you used too much naptha, it dissolved everything. When you freeze it, it lowers the amount of product the naptha can dissolve. You can either evaporate it down to however much the guide calls for or just evaporate all the way.

You should evaporate the naptha, then move on to the recrystallization step. Because you used too much naptha, it dissolved everything. When you freeze it, it lowers the amount of product the naptha can dissolve. You can either evaporate it down to however much the guide calls for or just evaporate all the way.

Why didn't the freezing of the naptha get the crystals out though? Like to keep the majority of the naptha for reuse, but don't want to lose any product.

Why didn't the freezing of the naptha get the crystals out though? I'd like to keep the majority of the naptha for reuse, but I don't want to lose any product.

The freezing is what is called freeze precipitation. It only works because the solubility of DMT lowers as the temp lowers. Because you used too much naptha, all the DMT can still be dissolved in the naptha, even at the lower solubility.

I haven't actually done it, these questions are based on a video I saw. I'm actually taking chemistry at a local college so I've been kind of interested in everything chemistry, even though I don't plan on doing this.

Well I went to see how the extraction went, and I filtered my collection jar of naptha but alas, no good stuff was left in the filter. I seriously don't know what could have went wrong.


So much for keeping it theoretical... ;)


But yes, the crystals didn't precipitate because the solubility of the compound in naphtha is sufficiently high for it to remain in solution in that volume of solvent, even at the temperature of your freezer (which is, presumably, somewhere in the region of -12 to -18 degrees celcius...).

The freezing is what is called freeze precipitation. It only works because the solubility of DMT lowers as the temp lowers. Because you used too much naptha, all the DMT can still be dissolved in the naptha, even at the lower solubility.

But yes, the crystals didn't precipitate because the solubility of the compound in naphtha is sufficiently high for it to remain in solution in that volume of solvent, even at the temperature of your freezer (which is, presumably, somewhere in the region of -12 to -18 degrees celcius...).

Yeah, so now * have a new problem. * Was unable to get the naptha to evaporate. * T* ried placing my 900ml of it in a jar inside a pot of boiling water, but it never did evaporate. * don't know what to do :(

Edit: Would it be dangerous to put the naptha into a pot by itself and boil it? There is technically no open flame, since the stove is one of those flat type electric stoves which I assume is like a hot plate. Would the fumes be bad to have in a house? There is the standard fan above the stove I could turn on high.

Edit 2: If naptha is so damn volatile and evaporates so easily, why is the boiling point so high? Wikipedia says its between 300-500 degrees F!

Edit 3: * Have it sitting out on the porch in a big baking pan with a fan on it to evap. Hopefully this will yield some product. I've read that to make sure all lye is neutralized in the end I should wash with a sodium carbonate solution. Is bicarbonate okay too? Because that's all I have.

What would be wise to do first, is to take a small amount of the Naptha and evaporate to see if it contains anything first, prior to trying to evap a litre.

Take 5 - 10% (50-100ml depending on amount of mimosa used) and put it in a lasagne dish or a large plate 9Something which will create a large surface area). Direct a small fan over it and it will be gone in an hour. The fan makes a massive difference, can be speeded up by sitting the lasagne dish/plate on a pan of boiled (not boiling - just boil a kettle and pour it in a pan or another pyrex lasagne dish ideally and sit the other on top; however, this really is not needed if you have a fan and just increases the danger of fire.

* Don't heat it, a) It can super heat and then 'bump' sending a big splash of super hot solvent into your face - always, boiling chips should be used, a pumice stone works fine (the stones used to get rid of hard skin sold at chemists....just break it up into small rocks or buy some boiling chips) Also, you massively increase risk of a fire (doesn't matter that it's on an electric hob, a spark from a light switch or a water heater's pilot flame or even it powering on could start a fire that will be worse than anything you have ever experienced....ever. It will flash over, travelling throughout the rooms exposed to vapour in a second - The pain will not be felt until afterwards and when it does hit, it hits hard.

and b) Apparently, the dmt can be damaged at relatively low temps.

*Always best to extract the mimosa into acidified water first and add base to that, keeping the bark separate via filtering prior to base addition. (Can do another water extraction on it later)


I edited your last posts just to remove the 'I' used in most sentences. Try not to self-incriminate, it's not healthy. Just leave the 'I' out and it works fine.

What would be wise to do first, is to take a small amount of the Naptha and evaporate to see if it contains anything first, prior to trying to evap a litre.

Take 5 - 10% (50-100ml depending on amount of mimosa used) and put it in a lasagne dish or a large plate 9Something which will create a large surface area). Direct a small fan over it and it will be gone in an hour. The fan makes a massive difference, can be speeded up by sitting the lasagne dish/plate on a pan of boiled (not boiling - just boil a kettle and pour it in a pan or another pyrex lasagne dish ideally and sit the other on top; however, this really is not needed if you have a fan and just increases the danger of fire.

* Don't heat it, a) It can super heat and then 'bump' sending a big splash of super hot solvent into your face - always, boiling chips should be used, a pumice stone works fine (the stones used to get rid of hard skin sold at chemists....just break it up into small rocks or buy some boiling chips) Also, you massively increase risk of a fire (doesn't matter that it's on an electric hob, a spark from a light switch or a water heater's pilot flame or even it powering on could start a fire that will be worse than anything you have ever experienced....ever. It will flash over, travelling throughout the rooms exposed to vapour in a second - The pain will not be felt until afterwards and when it does hit, it hits hard.

and b) Apparently, the dmt can be damaged at relatively low temps.

*Always best to extract the mimosa into acidified water first and add base to that, keeping the bark separate via filtering prior to base addition. (Can do another water extraction on it later)


I edited your last posts just to remove the 'I' used in most sentences. Try not to self-incriminate, it's not healthy. Just leave the 'I' out and it works fine.

Thanks, tried to keep it that way in the beginning but couldnt' manage it much. Maybe you should remove the references to editing my posts, and I'll go fix the rest of em?

Anyway, tried evaporating the whole 900ml on a big baking dish with a fan on it, and a lot of it evaporated. There's still some left, think it's going in the freezer overnight since there's less of it now.

Just incase anyone is following up or cares, after evaporating most of the naptha, froze it overnight and looks like product has formed! Still have to filter and pour ammonia over it to clean it, which leads me to my final question (hopefully someone will care to answer)

I have read on dmtnexus that sometimes people lose the product when doing the ammonia wash, and that I should use sodium carbonate instead. Is this a problem? I already bought the ammonia, and all I have at home is sodium bicarbonate, which they said would not work. What should I do?

Just incase anyone is following up or cares, after evaporating most of the naptha, froze it overnight and looks like product has formed! Still have to filter and pour ammonia over it to clean it, which leads me to my final question (hopefully someone will care to answer)

I have read on dmtnexus that sometimes people lose the product when doing the ammonia wash, and that I should use sodium carbonate instead. Is this a problem? I already bought the ammonia, and all I have at home is sodium bicarbonate, which they said would not work. What should I do?

Generally you'd only lose product if your ammonia is sudsy ammonia; but if you're able to find some non-sudsy NH3, you should be fine. Otherwise you can easily make sodium carbonate from bicarb. I recommend ammonia anyway; you're bound to lose something with a final wash. Link to the thread?

Generally you'd only lose product if your ammonia is sudsy ammonia; but if you're able to find some non-sudsy NH3, you should be fine. Otherwise you can easily make sodium carbonate from bicarb. I recommend ammonia anyway; you're bound to lose something with a final wash. Link to the thread?

Can't find it at the moment, but did find another person saying bicarb would be fine, so went ahead with that. Might go ahead and go with the ammonia wash next time; it is non-sudsy.

Can't find it at the moment, but did find another person saying bicarb would be fine, so went ahead with that. Might go ahead and go with the ammonia wash next time; it is non-sudsy.

How hard can it be to heat up the bicarb?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_Carbonate

How hard can it be to heat up the bicarb?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_Carbonate

Erm, you didn't tell me how to convert to carbonate, you just said it was easy.

Erm, you didn't tell me how to convert to carbonate, you just said it was easy.

Around here, we consider that spoon feeding. We do not liek spoon feeding. :mad:

If someone says it's easy, there's bound to be plenty of guides on google.

Around here, we consider that spoon feeding. We do not liek spoon feeding. :mad:

If someone says it's easy, there's bound to be plenty of guides on google.

indeed and to me the best way is after all the A/B is:

-freeze Dmt out of n-heptane, and evaporate the mother liquor when no more will freeze out.
-Wash with 10-13% Ammonia sol. (no soaps or shit in it please!)
-recrystalise from warm pet. ether :)

Nothing beats this, at least i think :(

so, assuming one follows every step exactly and is very careful as to not make any mistakes, about how long would it take to extract say, a kilo of MHRB? and how many/what size containers will they need?
sorry it seems like im asking to be spoon fed, i just cant figure this out :(
could be the fact ive been up for 30 hours now though :(
thanks :)

edit- and, are non-sudsy ammonia and naptha easily found at hardware (or other) stores?
Correct me if im wrong, but lighter fluid doesnt seem like a good source of naptha, it seems like it would have some contaminants in it..

so, assuming one follows every step exactly and is very careful as to not make any mistakes, about how long would it take to extract say, a kilo of MHRB? and how many/what size containers will they need?
sorry it seems like im asking to be spoon fed, i just cant figure this out :(
could be the fact ive been up for 30 hours now though :(
thanks :)

edit- and, are non-sudsy ammonia and naptha easily found at hardware (or other) stores?
Correct me if im wrong, but lighter fluid doesnt seem like a good source of naptha, it seems like it would have some contaminants in it..

It shouldn't take more than a day or so, depending on how quick you want to get it done. As far as what size containers you will need, you'll probably have to figure that out as you go unless you want to take the time to calculate it.

If you have an ace hardware store, you should be able to find both VM&P naptha and the 10% non-sudsy ammonia. If you don't, I'm not sure that you'll be able to. I for the life of me couldn't find either anywhere else.

It shouldn't take more than a day or so, depending on how quick you want to get it done. As far as what size containers you will need, you'll probably have to figure that out as you go unless you want to take the time to calculate it.

If you have an ace hardware store, you should be able to find both VM&P naptha and the 10% non-sudsy ammonia. If you don't, I'm not sure that you'll be able to. I for the life of me couldn't find either anywhere else.

thanks man.. yeah im pretty sure i got it figured out now i was just being a lazy fuck :p

did the .5% yield that the tek said end up being about right?

also, would it be safe to order MHRB off of ebay (way cheaper this way) and pay for it with paypal, or should i just use a money order?

thanks man.. yeah im pretty sure i got it figured out now i was just being a lazy fuck :p

did the .05% yield that the tek said end up being about right?

also, would it be safe to order MHRB off of ebay (way cheaper this way) and pay for it with paypal, or should i just use a money order?

Ordered from 100herbgalaxy. It was supposed to be 0.5% yeild, and to be honest, it doesn't look like it. Granted, haven't run the extraction as many times as supposed to, so hopefully more will show up later. The actual yield from the single extraction will be posted later.

Ordered from 100herbgalaxy. It was supposed to be 0.5% yeild, and to be honest, it doesn't look like it. Granted, haven't run the extraction as many times as supposed to, so hopefully more will show up later. The actual yield from the single extraction will be posted later.

just checked em out, over 1300 grams of MHRB for under 2 bills, including shipping, and they accept WU.
you sir, deserve a high five.
*high fives*

just checked em out, over 1300 grams of MHRB for under 2 bills, including shipping, and they accept WU.
you sir, deserve a high five.
*high fives*

Thanks, good luck with your extraction. Product will be weighed and/or tested tomorrow and will report back.