I never quite got it, Jesus is their messiah, and the center of their whole belief system, and they love him. So why would they go about hanging little replicas of his torturous execution all over the place, in their homes, round their necks, in public places? Sure, it's a very important part of the story, but not the one that they should be making statues and shit of.

I mean when people want to remember a special person, they usually use an image of them doing something noble or heroic or something. That's why the statue of Simpson and his donkey (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/CanberraSimpsonMemorial.jpg) depicts them rescuing a wounded soldier, not being torn to shreds by machineguns.

If someone you love was mangled in a car crash, would you hang a framed picture on your wall of their brains scattered about on the road? I wouldn't.

What do the parents say when their kids ask "who is that man and why is he stuck on that cross?"

"That's Jesus, he was tortured and nailed to the cross and left to die because he said some things that other people didn't like. That's the man we pray to every night."

Not exactly an inspiring thing to tell a young kid, is it? And christians are usually the ones that complain about violence in video games and movies. They're the ones wearing a necklace depicting a guy being executed.

Some people (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2137815) believe its symbology of something else. The same stance appears in other religions as well.

http://www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/spacecrucifixion.jpg

That (http://www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/buddha.html) may look like jesus, but it is actually an image of Wittoba or Vithoba - an earlier incarnation of Vishnu/Krishna, crucified without the cross.

Catholics are the ones who usually have jesus still crucified on their crosses...but most other christians dont...i think its cuz its kind of disrespectful to have something showing their almighty god hangin on a cross DEAD all tha time...oh and also one of the ten commandments:

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Protestants use that verse to condemn people who bow down to statues and paintings or any other images, but catholics argue that they arent idols and there not worshippin them... it jus. Disagreements on interpretations....

Catholics are the ones who usually have jesus still crucified on their crosses...but most other christians dont...i think its cuz its kind of disrespectful to have something showing their almighty god hangin on a cross DEAD all tha time...oh and also one of the ten commandments:

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Protestants use that verse to condemn people who bow down to statues and paintings or any other images, but catholics argue that they arent idols and there not worshippin them... it jus. Disagreements on interpretations....

I applaud your above average knowledge of Christians and the Bible(atleast for this forum) but let me just correct you on a few things.

1: I believe Jesus on the cross shouldnt be what christians think about but instead they should be concentrated on Him being risen.

2: Exodus 20:4-5 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth 5:Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me"

That means ALL images of anything (what the verse says should make that point clear) in fact go ask a orthodox jew why he dose not have any pictures of God and he will site that verse (because they would be making an image of what is in heaven).

BTW that dosnt mean you cant have pictures and stuff in your house it just means dont serve them or worship them.

Christians like to think their guy died, and then came back. Makes him special. Never mind that this happens in ER's on a fairly regular basis these days.

Christians like to think their guy died, and then came back. Makes him special. Never mind that this happens in ER's on a fairly regular basis these days.

It happened on a fairly regular basis back then too. Comas, poisoning, and even prolonged bouts of unconsciousness were often mistaken for death, only for the corpse to wake up right when his family and friends had come to pay their respects.

Three days is a pretty long time though, lacking modern medical knowledge.

It's ashame that Christians raped and pillaged other beliefs/ethnicities and adopted them like a red headed step child.

This actually a very simple question, and if you'd read your Bible you could figure it out pretty quickly.

Jesus' death provided atonement for the sins of humanity.

1 Peter 2:24
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

This actually a very simple question, and if you'd read your Bible you could figure it out pretty quickly.

Jesus' death provided atonement for the sins of humanity.

1 Peter 2:24
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

Okay, disregarding what Pete and Izzy think, do YOU personally think so much attention should be brought to the method and details of his execution, instead of the method and details of the good deeds and whatnot he did when he was alive? Of course, "He died for our sins" should be near or at the top of the list of reasons why he ought be worshipped, but are the gory details really nessecary?

1: I believe Jesus on the cross shouldnt be what christians think about but instead they should be concentrated on Him being risen.


I believe that all we should be worried about is his teachings and that fact that he died for our sins. How he died or how he was risen doesnt have anything to do with his purpose...let me ask you this though, just outta curiosity...when you say he was risen what do you exactly mean? do u believe jesus soul went up to heaven and three days later shot back to his dead earthly body...bringin it back to life just to ascend right back to heaven? why would that be necessary if he was already in "paradise" its not like his physical body would be of any use...thats why I think none of that matters...all that matters is his message, people nowadays get so caught up in all of that.....

Your question reminds me of a very similar question that asked 'If Jesus had died in a Chevy, would christians go around wearing a chevy emblem around their necks?'

While it is all symbolic to their religion, one thing that they seem to omit is the fact that crucifixion was a very common practice at the time. So they take the image of the cross and glorify it when it was actually reserved to punish thieves and murderers.

And then, after Peter or Paul (whichever disciple it was) is to be cruicified, he asks for his cross to be inverted because he doesn't feel like he was worthy enough to be crucified the way jesus was. Somehow, an inverted cross becomes a symbol of satanism which I've never understood the connection to that.

Why don't we just settle with the fact that christians have a tendency to be a little crazy about certain things? (some more so than others) :D

It's because it's a religion of guilt.

I believe that all we should be worried about is his teachings and that fact that he died for our sins. How he died or how he was risen doesnt have anything to do with his purpose...let me ask you this though, just outta curiosity...when you say he was risen what do you exactly mean? do u believe jesus soul went up to heaven and three days later shot back to his dead earthly body...bringin it back to life just to ascend right back to heaven? why would that be necessary if he was already in "paradise" its not like his physical body would be of any use...thats why I think none of that matters...all that matters is his message, people nowadays get so caught up in all of that.....

This should answer your question

http://www.new-life.net/faq223.htm

For the OP I can offer the rekoning that for those specific branches of Christianity that follow the practice, he was a martyr and thus the likeness is a symbol for whatever the cause is. Like a memorial, perhaps. Such an effigy can have many differing meanings.

To think that it makes a Christian is comparable to those Christians that (Ironically, in my opinion) seem to believe that it is a ticket into heaven. I believe that those modes of thought are 'wrong', but that's for another thread as it spans a number of reasons, issues, and also fully subjective personal beliefs.

I applaud your above average knowledge of Christians and the Bible(atleast for this forum) but let me just correct you on a few things.

1: I believe Jesus on the cross shouldnt be what christians think about but instead they should be concentrated on Him being risen.

2: Exodus 20:4-5 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth 5:Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me"

That means ALL images of anything (what the verse says should make that point clear) in fact go ask a orthodox jew why he dose not have any pictures of God and he will site that verse (because they would be making an image of what is in heaven).

BTW that dosnt mean you cant have pictures and stuff in your house it just means dont serve them or worship them.

In posts to come be careful to assess from where the body of your post originates, and that you aren't in fact preaching. I say that as a friend as much as a critic.

It's ashame that Christians raped and pillaged other beliefs/ethnicities and adopted them like a red headed step child.

So have Muslims, Athiests, and etcetera. Basically all other religions have also taken part in some form of genocide, so why are you demonising christianity in particular? It's not a point, and it's not relevant to this thread.

It's because it's a religion of guilt.
This.

Jesus is the perfect pin-up boy.;)

This.

Jesus is the perfect pin-up boy.;)

Please, for your own sake as much as anyone elses, try not to follow what the media and popular culture tells you to do & say from now on. That goes for both of the things you said ;). Meaning is directly proportional to how much of your belief you have found for yourself, levels of guidance is acceptable for reasonable effects but choose it carefully, and absolute meaning can only be found within 'yourself'.

I think it's funny, what's wrong with Christianity being a religion of guilt, and what's wrong with joking about Jesus being a pin-up boy? Maybe that's what god wants.

All men will have their souls redeemed by Jesus's sacrifice. This is how men save themselves. Much like Noah and his Ark in which men take refuge, now instead use Jesus.

Please, for your own sake as much as anyone elses, try not to follow what the media and popular culture tells you to do & say from now on. That goes for both of the things you said ;). Meaning is directly proportional to how much of your belief you have found for yourself, levels of guidance is acceptable for reasonable effects but choose it carefully, and absolute meaning can only be found within 'yourself'.

i understand what you're saying, but don't just assume that i'm "blindly following" anyone.

i dont really know how you get all of that from what i said. it was intended as a joke, and not much more than that.:)


Also, I see catholicism as a political system of anachronistic conservatism, and should be treated as such.
yes, i understand that catholics may gain answers "within themselves" from their religion. having said that, the problems caused by catholicism are problems that affect non-catholics; and their virtues must, as in any mass belief system, be questioned on a social level and not just an individual one.

when you question a belief system on how it affects society, motives for individual behaviour must be taken into account.
and from what i know, guilt is quite a large part of catholic ethics.

i understand what you're saying, but don't just assume that i'm "blindly following" anyone.

i dont really know how you get all of that from what i said. it was intended as a joke, and not much more than that.

I was taking the piss out of you for repeating both a joke from that evening's screening of Good News Week, and then extending in that to mock you for perpetrating a point of view far too often 'unfairly' pushed in television shows, newspaper articles, radio broadcasts, and the rest. The views of athiesm should stay out of media and politics just as much (key worded) as views of specific religions such as Catholicism, Islam, etc. Honestly it's a small grudge to bear, but it's certainly present.

At least in Australia it is the case, the climate on this would be different all around the world (logically).


Also, I see catholicism as a political system of anachronistic conservatism, and should be treated as such.
yes, i understand that catholics may gain answers "within themselves" from their religion. having said that, the problems caused by catholicism are problems that affect non-catholics; and their virtues must, as in any mass belief system, be questioned on a social level and not just an individual one.
when you question a belief system on how it affects society, motives for individual behaviour must be taken into account.
and from what i know, guilt is quite a large part of catholic ethics.


There's nothing to say to that. I don't disagree.

Note: I meandered away a bit through that post, and wasn't directly referring to Catholicism at that stage, though relevant.
This is beginning to go off track, and since I'm not a regular in this forum I don't feel welcome to take it all that much further.

i wouldn't say its unfairly perpetuated. if it stirs up debate then i reckon it's a good thing. we need satire.

and yeah i did steal that joke from gnw. but hey, it was funny.:D