Does anybody ever think about the relationship between the two? since they say Lucifer is an angel of light and means "enlightened one" or something like that... isnt the whole point of being enlightened is so that you can be like god? wouldn't that be bad? (like when Lucifer supposedly wanted to be like god, which got him kicked outa heaven) maybe God thinks its disrespectful to try and be at his level (well according to traditional Xian views)...

I've always thought about this... like in Genesis where it says the serpent deceived adam and eve... didn't he tell them the truth? God did know that their eyes would be open and they wouldn't die and they would gain knowledge of good and evil...he also told them they would be like God...so maybe he didn't lie, maybe he knew that humans would abuse this knowledge of good and evil and use it to try and become 'like God'? or was he simply trying to "enlighten us"... the only 2 answers I got when asking this question in the past explains that : A) prior to that, man wasn't intended to ever experience death and B) God was talking about a spiritual death.... but I feel there's more to it then that.

I myself was raised with regular Christian beliefs, but then I started questioning a lot and have became more"spiritual" and enlightened over the past years... if i could go a few years back, my old self would tell me that I'm being deceived by the devil and am lost and have strayed away from gods teachings...but then I would respond that my old self is so close minded and being controlled and manipulated like the rest of the stupid general population....but I just feel there's so much more to all this religion and life stuff....so my views have changed drastically and I have much more of an open mind now...I just don't wanna believe the wrong things just because my curiosity of life has led me here....

Sorry for such a long post...and I'm not really asking a specific question, I just want to get some insight on the issues that I struggle with in my mind....

I don't think curiosity of life will ever lead to bad things. Only fear of life leads you bad places.

I believe you should understand the stories of the Bible in ways that it makes most sense to you. That's pretty much what the church does, and whose to say they're right?
I say it's better to trust your own understandings than put your faith in someone elses.

Edit: I recommend you paragraph your posts more.

isnt the whole point of being enlightened is so that you can be like god?

Not at all.

As for the rest, I can't really say much. Christianity is one religion (among many) that I don't know much about.

Good post though.

Lucifer is the negative polarization of the Christ state/enlightenment

He can be the light bringer, but only if you chain the animal within/

I want to stress first of all, that I did NO TEXT editing--I didn't change a word, just did some proofing and stuff to make the post easier to read.

That said, kudos to OP for a heartfelt and thought-provoking post.

My advice would be, relax. Spiritual progress is inevitable, and confusion at some point is a normal part of the process. Sounds to me like you are starting to transcend the stage one consciousness and moving rapidly through the second stage into the third.

Does anybody ever think about the relationship between the two? since they say Lucifer is an angel of light and means "enlightened one" or something like that... isnt the whole point of being enlightened is so that you can be like god? wouldn't that be bad? (like when Lucifer supposedly wanted to be like god, which got him kicked outa heaven) maybe God thinks its disrespectful to try and be at his level (well according to traditional Xian views)...

I've always thought about this... like in Genesis where it says the serpent deceived adam and eve... didn't he tell them the truth? God did know that their eyes would be open and they wouldn't die and they would gain knowledge of good and evil...he also told them they would be like God...so maybe he didn't lie, maybe he knew that humans would abuse this knowledge of good and evil and use it to try and become 'like God'? or was he simply trying to "enlighten us"... the only 2 answers I got when asking this question in the past explains that : A) prior to that, man wasn't intended to ever experience death and B) God was talking about a spiritual death.... but I feel there's more to it then that.

I myself was raised with regular Christian beliefs, but then I started questioning a lot and have became more"spiritual" and enlightened over the past years... if i could go a few years back, my old self would tell me that I'm being deceived by the devil and am lost and have strayed away from gods teachings...but then I would respond that my old self is so close minded and being controlled and manipulated like the rest of the stupid general population....but I just feel there's so much more to all this religion and life stuff....so my views have changed drastically and I have much more of an open mind now...I just don't wanna believe the wrong things just because my curiosity of life has led me here....

Sorry for such a long post...and I'm not really asking a specific question, I just want to get some insight on the issues that I struggle with in my mind....

The ability granted by the fruit is that of judgment. The serpent said it would grant wisdom in regards to good and evil...it didn't. It granted knowledge of the two existing, not what was good and what was evil. One deception on the part of the serpent. <- This part of the fable is to explain the reason humans have a basic sense of duality, but can never certainly know which belongs to which side. Essentially, an explanation of the spiritual sense of good and evil and the mind's inability to discern which is actually which: a presentation of man's limited wisdom and limitless ability to pretend otherwise.

As for the, 'in the day you eat it you shall surely die', I think that part of the story relates to another fable regarding the expression of a 'day' to God as 1000 years of man. Hence no Biblical fable ever recording a life to 1000 years. This portion, I have taken to be an expression of man's limited experience of the big picture, and how God's greater view presents a truth in a different manner than would ever be expected by man.

As far as I can tell, our eyes were not opened and we do certainly die within God's measure of a day. The eyes of man, in the story of Eden, were opened to their nudity - they were granted the ability to judge and this is what they first rendered against. They saw naked flesh...a creation of God...and felt shame. How do you propose their eyes were truly opened feeling shame for what God created? The serpent did indeed deceive...the very first judgment made with this new knowledge of good and evil places God's work under the category of evil.

Hope my post might clear up a few questions you had about the story of Eden and the serpent's role in the story.

As for whether it is literal or allegorical, I say it doesn't quite matter: the point remains the same and God still is. And as for growing more spiritual and being concerned about believing the right thing: God isn't going to hate you for being deceived...the first thing he did for Adam and Eve, after they falsely believed and disobeyed according to their ignorance, was give them clothing to cover their shame and teach them how to live outside Eden. God isn't going to abandon you for believing incorrectly.

Surely talking snakes and 'trees' that bear the fruit of good and evil are dead give aways to the mythical/allegorical nature of the story and if that's not enough, the 'dying in the day' .. and not, should be?

First of all I wanna say thanks for editing my post. Sorry, I never post so this is kinda new, and also I am just horrible at using words to express my thoughts...and also thanks for the great replys from everyone...Ive never been able to ask these types of question because usually people arent interested or dont care to understand things at such a deep level...but anyway im gonna try to respond to these replys....

HandOfZek:

I thought that becoming like god was the goal of enlightenment becuz of a quote i read... somebody had it as their signature in this thread but i guess they took it off (i think it was armsmerchant) but it said somethin like "why do I search for god? well, my answer would be selfish, blabla somethin about being my own creator and being in control of my own destiny"... but i guess the reason of being spiritual varies from person to person?...


My advice would be, relax. Spiritual progress is inevitable, and confusion at some point is a normal part of the process. Sounds to me like you are starting to transcend the stage one consciousness and moving rapidly through the second stage into the third.

Yea, Ive read about these stages and it seems to describe my spiritual journey pretty accurate... have you, or anyone else here transcended thru all seven levels?

Also, would it be safe to say that the church has the general christian population is stuck at stage one consciousness?? or is just me who thinks that?

my mom has been a devoted christian for about 20 years, and always talks about God showing her new things, and revealing who he is to her, but it seems to me like shes forever stuck at her level of consciousness. It seems like these type of people believe just because of love/fear of God, but have no real deep understanding of their faith.. Everytime I question one of HER beliefs she flips out like im tryna rebel against God, when really Im just tryna understand something at a deeper level... Then shell start referring to god as "MY God" (her god) and start boasting about what "her god has shown her, and 'Oh thats not what MY god has shown me is right and blabla... then she takes it like im tryna attack her personally...then its just chaos.she is firmly opposed to having an open mind, becuz she thinks all that will do is allow her to be decieved. is my mom just spiritually blind and stupid?or is this just a normal "side-effect" of stage one consciousness? how the heck am I supposed to deal with these type of people...

I wanna help my mom and family understand all this religion/spiritual stuff deeper, and not jus be like the rest of the sheep-like population....it sucks becuz Like i said I am horrible at expressing my views and Ideas. My mom has been serving god for about as long as Ive been alive (im 19) but it seems like Ive been blessed to understand all of this stuff at a way deeper level then common christians do...It also sux becuz my mom will ask me what is the source of all this knowledge i have, and i cant pin point where its from. She will stand firm and brag that her source is "the word of god (Bible)' and then she will mock me by saying I get all my information from the internet (which is kinda true). she also thinks Im just believing what I want to, just cause I think it sounds nice and stuff. now i myself believe the bible to be true, but I feel it should be interpreted way different then how it is nowadays....anybody have any tips on how to preach to those at lower levels of consciousness? should I even try to help my mom? or should I leave it to god?? I just feel like shes gonna be at that level her whole life... especially if shes only exposed to: 1)her bible 2)the same church (and tv sermons) 3)other "level one people" who share the exact same beliefs. we just got in a big ol fight the other day n she ended up crying over it (cuz she thinks shes not fulfilling her duty as a christian mom to raise her children in the way of god) should I stand up for what I believe in? or should I keep quiet in order to preserve peace in the house? what you guys think?

The ability granted by the fruit is that of judgment. The serpent said it would grant wisdom in regards to good and evil...it didn't. It granted knowledge of the two existing, not what was good and what was evil. One deception on the part of the serpent. <- This part of the fable is to explain the reason humans have a basic sense of duality, but can never certainly know which belongs to which side. Essentially, an explanation of the spiritual sense of good and evil and the mind's inability to discern which is actually which: a presentation of man's limited wisdom and limitless ability to pretend otherwise.

As for the, 'in the day you eat it you shall surely die', I think that part of the story relates to another fable regarding the expression of a 'day' to God as 1000 years of man. Hence no Biblical fable ever recording a life to 1000 years. This portion, I have taken to be an expression of man's limited experience of the big picture, and how God's greater view presents a truth in a different manner than would ever be expected by man.

As far as I can tell, our eyes were not opened and we do certainly die within God's measure of a day. The eyes of man, in the story of Eden, were opened to their nudity - they were granted the ability to judge and this is what they first rendered against. They saw naked flesh...a creation of God...and felt shame. How do you propose their eyes were truly opened feeling shame for what God created? The serpent did indeed deceive...the very first judgment made with this new knowledge of good and evil places God's work under the category of evil.

Hope my post might clear up a few questions you had about the story of Eden and the serpent's role in the story.

As for whether it is literal or allegorical, I say it doesn't quite matter: the point remains the same and God still is. And as for growing more spiritual and being concerned about believing the right thing: God isn't going to hate you for being deceived...the first thing he did for Adam and Eve, after they falsely believed and disobeyed according to their ignorance, was give them clothing to cover their shame and teach them how to live outside Eden. God isn't going to abandon you for believing incorrectly.

great response, this was very interesting and insightful...ive never thought about it like that but that was a great way to put it. I especially liked tha last paragraph...I myself believe that god couldnt possibly condemn billions for being mislead on their search for him, and you used a great example to back that up. nice reply

Surely talking snakes and 'trees' that bear the fruit of good and evil are dead give aways to the mythical/allegorical nature of the story and if that's not enough, the 'dying in the day' .. and not, should be?

So what do you think all of these things represent? Im not sure whether I believe it was literal/metaphorical but yea i dont think it matters either...Ive read that some people think that the tree represented our sex organs and our downfall was do to lust or somethin but i dont know...im interested tho, what do you guys think the trees (the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the tree of life) and eating the fruit really represent?

Ive heard the stories (from the book of enoch) about the angels who lusted after the woman and came to earth to have sex with them and taught them sacred things or somethin like that (how to enhance beauty with make-up, how to build weapons for war, sacred math, how to use herbs and roots and other things...) maybe this knowledge was forbidden fruit that god didnt want us to get caught up in? (look at how these have problems have evolved in todays world) god did say that these things were useless... but i dont know maybe you guys have some other ideas on what all this represents...

So what do you think all of these things represent?

What's important is, what do you think it means? Why listen to anyone else? You are as capable as any other to interpret a metaphor, and in many ways it seems that is the intent of a good analogy, not the actual words, but what they bring to mind. Could the trees be like a family tree? And the fruit be like the fruit of one's labours?

Remember how it is repeated several times in Genesis 1 how God saw what he had made and it was all good? In verse 31 the creation culminates in the statement that God saw everything he had made and it was all very good. No mention of any evil, it was not just good it was very good, all that he had made. How then could one know evil? All was good. What then could be evil? All that had been created by God was very good. Could that represent the 'tree' of life? A view of life that "It's all good"?

Would it also follow that the 'fruit' of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents a view of life in which an objective evil exists? Like the difference between an optimist and a pessimist. An optimist may say that 'this is the best of all possible worlds', whereas a pessimist would be afraid the optimist was right;)

Far as yr mum, she obviously believes there is evil, and she is afraid, but ... you and I know it's all good! Right? Have compassion and follow your heart:)

Yea, I know that it doesnt realy matter how others interpret these things...Im just curious about how the dawn of man took place and stuff in a literal sense...but its not like Ill ever know 4shure so mite as well take it how I see it...

Yea, I know that it doesnt realy matter how others interpret these things...Im just curious about how the dawn of man took place and stuff in a literal sense...but its not like Ill ever know 4shure so mite as well take it how I see it...

Yeah no harm in throwing around ideas so long as they do not become dogma:)

The Enlightenment had a lot to do with the beliefs of Robert Bacon and Thomas Hobbes which later were restated by John Locke as a social contract. Not much about lucifer there.

The Enlightenment had a lot to do with the beliefs of Robert Bacon and Thomas Hobbes which later were restated by John Locke as a social contract. Not much about lucifer there.

did you just read the thread title and reply? ur either stupid or didnt take time to read...im not talking about the age of enlightenment...im talking about enlightening your mind and soul and stuff...

Sorry I did. I understand your post but I am afraid it nothing I would like to discuss if you feel that way.

dude... you are asking questions that I myself have put ALOT of thought into. yes i believe there is a definite correlation not only between enlightenment, and lucifer being the angel of light but this concept carries over into a number of areas. throughout history the devil has found a way to imitate God. i.e. God is light....enlightenment. The beliefs of the Masonic temple are also closely connected. Many of their teachings refer to enlightenment and seeking "the light" which they will tell you is the light of God, but under closer examination you will find something completely different.i have also put alot of thought into the relationship between hallucinogens and connecting with another religious realm or being enLIGHTened. I find it interesting that when adam and eve ate from the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil the Bible says their "eyes were opened". possibly like your pupils which become dilated when ingesting a hallucinogen. The knowledge you speak of wondering whether it is leading you farther from the truth, is another area I have put much thought into.. the whole drug community (hallucinogen users especially) could be categorized as a sort of seeker, aside from the people who simply use them to escape or get messed up. this drug journey seems filled with all of this mystery and wonderment, about what is behind that door, what lies at the end of this strange yet beautiful path... and ive come to the conclusion that it is in fact, destruction. picture that fish that lives deep in the ocean that weve all seen with the fishing pole thing with what seems like a light at the end of it... fish become so captivated with that light, that they swim inevitably to their doom. I believe that all of this "knowledge" that the world has to offer is simply a distraction to keep us from taking the path that we know in heart to be true... we spend too much time wondering what we could be missing, trying to answer that burning question that can never be defined no matter how hard we try and doing so miss the boat.. I am currently in a crossroads I know I need to surrender to God, and I keep getting stuck in the same loops and snares.. i dont have the answers I only know that Satans plan is simple, distract us long enough until its too late. Dont follow the pied piper, follow Gods path, and let him be your light.

As for whether it is literal or allegorical, I say it doesn't quite matter: the point remains the same and God still is. And as for growing more spiritual and being concerned about believing the right thing: God isn't going to hate you for being deceived...the first thing he did for Adam and Eve, after they falsely believed and disobeyed according to their ignorance, was give them clothing to cover their shame and teach them how to live outside Eden. God isn't going to abandon you for believing incorrectly.

There is one very important aspect you may have overlooked. you are right, God did offer the skin of a lamb as a covering for Adam and Eve.. This is however a very descriptive prediction of the future when God would give us another "lamb" as a covering, being of course his son. So you are right in saying that God doesnt want anyone to perish, so he created a way to defeat death.. all thats left to us is to receive it. a part of that would of course be BELIEVING that God gave us his son to pay for our sins.. so if we dont believe that, we are in effect rejecting his gift of life... just my opinion and something to think about... keep up the great forum!

5char

Lucifer's name literally means "Bringer of Light". When Christianity became the dominant religion, Lucifer's meaning was inverted; he became the father of lies.

The reason for this: Christianity is based on lies, deception, and self-denial. If Lucifer could speak to you, he would tell you this. The Church wants you to believe that the truth about Christianity is a lie, and that their lies are truth, and so they distorted the name of Lucifer.

So in the story of Adam and Eve, Lucifer, in the form of the snake, did act as the "Bringer of Light". He gave them the knowlege of good and evil, but the two first humans lacked the judgement to decide which was which.

Even now many people are too dense and ignorant to make that judgement for themselves, so they follow the dominant spiritual dogma; Christianity.

The afterlife, my brothers, is a complete fabrication. It is designed to provoke fear, and instill false hope. Lucifer's enlightenment is the realisation that our MORTAL existance is both heaven and hell. It is up to you to decide which final destination your life will most resemble.

dude... you are asking questions that I myself have put ALOT of thought into. yes i believe there is a definite correlation not only between enlightenment, and lucifer being the angel of light but this concept carries over into a number of areas.

can u elaborate on what you mean...what other areas are you talking about? and also you say that under close examination, that enlightenment doesn't bring gods light but something completely different....what do think it brings?

I agree with the general ideas in your reply but what do you think gods path truly is? christianity? going to church and believing everything they tell you?
I do believe that the church is very corrupt and does a good job at keeping followers closed minded (i dont know if this is on purpose or not)....i mainly question the church and the bible and stuff since its foundations have to do with constantine, converting the roman empire, politics, europeans tryna conquer the world in the name of these religions, and stuff like that... and then in the bible it says how jesus used to meditate...but how many christians do you know accept mediatation as a way to get closer to god, ya kno...was jesus truly an enlightened human being?
maybe the masons have used and kept secret all this true good knowledge but just use it for evil? even in the bible it says the whole world will be deceived, and all that stuff about the whore of babylon and ALL nations have been drunk with the blood of the saints and stuff... but yea whats your idea of gods path?

Lucifer's name literally means "Bringer of Light". When Christianity became the dominant religion, Lucifer's meaning was inverted; he became the father of lies.

The reason for this: Christianity is based on lies, deception, and self-denial. If Lucifer could speak to you, he would tell you this. The Church wants you to believe that the truth about Christianity is a lie, and that their lies are truth, and so they distorted the name of Lucifer.

So in the story of Adam and Eve, Lucifer, in the form of the snake, did act as the "Bringer of Light". He gave them the knowlege of good and evil, but the two first humans lacked the judgement to decide which was which.

Even now many people are too dense and ignorant to make that judgement for themselves, so they follow the dominant spiritual dogma; Christianity.

The afterlife, my brothers, is a complete fabrication. It is designed to provoke fear, and instill false hope. Lucifer's enlightenment is the realisation that our MORTAL existance is both heaven and hell. It is up to you to decide which final destination your life will most resemble.

well i assume you believe in the story of adam and eve..but let me ask you this.. if lucifer did bring light to us... why do you think he was directly going against what god said? he even said...God knows you will not die blabla... if he was bringing light, are you suggesting that god was lying to us, or wanted to supress our minds or what? and yea I dont know how lucifer became known as the father of lies... it says the serpent was the father of lies, I dont know how lucifer and the serpent became the same being...

and how did we lack judgement of right and wrong?...
wasnt eating the fruit the "wrongg" thing that we did? but at the same time, youre saying that when he told eve to eat this fruit, that was him bringing light to us. what makes you think we lacked judgement?

The real God who bestows enlightenment should be called Lucifer. The angry, tyrannical storm genie of the Old Testament is the demiurge - the real devil posing as God. The Jews made a pact with the demiurge for wealth and power, and, in exchange, spread their Satanic religion. The God of Jesus is the Gnostic God. You'll find paralells between Vedic and Gnostic thought. Why? It's based on bhakti-yoga brought to the middle east by the young Jesus.

well i assume you believe in the story of adam and eve..

Don't assume. I don't believe in it myself; I know the story, I understand what it is supposed to mean, and I disagree with it.

but let me ask you this.. if lucifer did bring light to us... why do you think he was directly going against what god said?

Perhaps Lucifer had enough respect for Adam and Eve that he believed they had a right to know? Unlike good old Jehova who always just "knows" whats best for us. :rolleyes:

he even said...God knows you will not die blabla... if he was bringing light, are you suggesting that god was lying to us, or wanted to supress our minds or what?

Precisely. This "God" fears that humankind would realise their potential to become their own Gods.

and yea I dont know how lucifer became known as the father of lies...

He became the father of lies because the church said so. They needed someone to blame; someone to accuse of corrupting the minds of those who realise that the church is controlling their lives unjustly.

it says the serpent was the father of lies, I dont know how lucifer and the serpent became the same being...

Lucifer, Satan, Beelzebub, the Serpent...all were seperate entities until Christianity made them one. Its easier to point your finger at a single enemy rather than many.

and how did we lack judgement of right and wrong?...
wasnt eating the fruit the "wrongg" thing that we did? but at the same time, youre saying that when he told eve to eat this fruit, that was him bringing light to us. what makes you think we lacked judgement?

Eating the fruit was wrong, you say? In that case, your very existance is "wrongg". According to the Bible, we are all Adam and Eve's children, and without their knowledge of good and evil, shame, and the seven deadly sins, none of us would exist. After all, fornication is the "original sin".

No human is perfect in his or her judgement. All of us make mistakes. After all, we're only human.

Permit me to ask what you think is right and wrong.
Is it right to condemn a man for living his life in a wholesome way without the guidance of your "almighty"?
Is it wrong to feel the urge to have sex out of love and to ensure the survival of your species?
Is it right to blindly follow a code of laws only because your parents have taught you so, or should you seek a path that is right for your own self?

You may find that your answers differ from those of God.

The Jews made a pact with the demiurge for wealth and power, and, in exchange, spread their Satanic religion.

You're anti-semetic propaganda disgusts me, not only because of the filthy hatred you spew from that forked "god-fearing" tongue of yours, but also your attempt to relate Judaism to my religion.

Do you even realise that Judaism is more like your religion than any others? You christians can barely keep yourselves from squabbling against eachother, and you expect to keep your souls "safe from satan"? Pathetic.

satanities satanities satanities

Hello everybody, wow, I must be the only one in these forums that had sex (Yes, I'm proud of that and I think it gives me status over other people even though it does not), I'm a friend of Glas.
Glassie, stop converting people to satanism, think of what Buddha would say.

think of what Buddha would say.

Buddha is bullocks.

Meister Eckhart once said, "There never was a struggle or a battle which required greater valor than that in which a man forgets or denies himself."

Contemplate that for awhile.




Immersed in this cloud of unknowing, is this fog true knowledge?
Transcend the dualistic Creator God, there you will find a Truth so noble, that when your conception of God hath turn aside from it, keep the Truth, and let God go.

You're anti-semetic propaganda disgusts me, not only because of the filthy hatred you spew from that forked "god-fearing" tongue of yours, but also your attempt to relate Judaism to my religion.

Do you even realise that Judaism is more like your religion than any others? You christians can barely keep yourselves from squabbling against eachother, and you expect to keep your souls "safe from satan"? Pathetic.

Satanism is bollocks. How do you have a religion in which there is no God or Supreme Being, no belief in the supernatural, yet you're encouraged to practice magick? I don't believe in electricity, but I use a computer... Hence why "magick" doesn't work. If you want magic, study theurgy or tantra. Even Yogis will tell you that mantra japa and magic are considered "artificial" means of attaining siddhis. According to the Bhagavad Gita, Bhakti is the topmost yoga system, as it liberates one from samsara.

BTW, Judaism IS related to your religion. Kaballah > Aliester Crowley > Anton LaVey (orginally Levey, as in Levite, JEW)

OTO, A.A, Freemasonry, Thelema, etc. are based on Jewish precepts of stolen Egyptian knowlege corrupted by the Hyksos (Jews), who worshipped Set (the god of chaos and destruction) and murdered Seqenenre Tao II of Thebes when he refused to give up their magical rites to outsiders.

Satanism is bollocks. How do you have a religion in which there is no God or Supreme Being, no belief in the supernatural, yet you're encouraged to practice magick? I don't believe in electricity, but I use a computer... Hence why "magick" doesn't work. If you want magic, study theurgy or tantra. Even Yogis will tell you that mantra japa and magic are considered "artificial" means of attaining siddhis. According to the Bhagavad Gita, Bhakti is the topmost yoga system, as it liberates one from samsara.

As a Satanist, I am my own Supreme Being. Go ahead and grovel before some imaginary figure or graven image. You only limit the extent of your own power.

The concept of Satanic magick is based on the fact that all deities are a creation of man; an externalization of man's own ego. It is therefore man, not God, that has the power to affect worldly events by the power of his own will.

I haven't yet practiced a Satanic ritual, so I couldn't tell you whether or not it works. I have, however, successfully used Chaos magick for some minor material gain. My brother has "mastered" Chaos magick and has gained much from it (though he destroyed quite a bit of his sanity in the process.) Who's to say which methods are artificial and which are true?

I'm not too arrogant to admit I have no idea what this shit about siddhis and samsara means. Until I look into it further I can only imagine that its a bunch of overglorified eastern bullshit.

BTW, Judaism IS related to your religion. Kaballah > Aliester Crowley > Anton LaVey (orginally Levey, as in Levite, JEW)


If you're going to go by ancestry, you might as well say all our religions are rooted in African mysticism.

As a Satanist, I am my own Supreme Being. Go ahead and grovel before some imaginary figure or graven image. You only limit the extent of your own power.

Being that you are a Supreme Being, does that also mean the groveling Christian is a Supreme Being?

The concept of Satanic magick is based on the fact that all deities are a creation of man; an externalization of man's own ego. It is therefore man, not God, that has the power to affect worldly events by the power of his own will.
These imagined deities can affect the world, because they are an extension of the ego of man, and it is the ego of man that causes energetic motion?
What about the will of the Universe? Is one mans ego enough to cause significant change? Is one mans ego merely an extension of the will of the Universe?


I'm not too arrogant to admit I have no idea what this shit about siddhis and samsara means. Until I look into it further I can only imagine that its a bunch of overglorified eastern bullshit.
Contemplate Samsara, then maybe you will see, there is more to the Universe than perpetuating the wheel by contributing egoic motion.


If you're going to go by ancestry, you might as well say all our religions are rooted in African mysticism.All religions are rooted in contemplative meditation, yet very few religions practice it.

If you're going to go by ancestry, you might as well say all our religions are rooted in African mysticism.

Ok, you got me there. Earlier, I was high and I got all "jewish conspiracy" and shit. Practice whatever religion you want, I don't care. Besides, my religion is probably considered "satanic" by christians, jews and muslims. It's Vaishnava hinduism.

Being that you are a Supreme Being, does that also mean the groveling Christian is a Supreme Being?

Until he realises it for himself, no. Everyone has the potential to control their own destiny, but when you place it in the hands of God, you're essentially putting yourself at the mercy of those who hold the strings of his hands.

These imagined deities can affect the world, because they are an extension of the ego of man, and it is the ego of man that causes energetic motion?

The will of man can affect the flow of events in the universe. Generally, ones will isnt strong enough to change the course of history completely, but every person has an impact, both through the actions of their body, and of their mind.

What about the will of the Universe? Is one mans ego enough to cause significant change?Is one mans ego merely an extension of the will of the Universe?

One man's ego is enough to change or control what immediately surrounds him.

Does the Universe even have a will of its own, or is the Universe's will merely the combined will of all living things?

Contemplate Samsara, then maybe you will see, there is more to the Universe than perpetuating the wheel by contributing egoic motion.

Thanks for the advice. When I have some time off I might look into it.

Don't assume. I don't believe in it myself; I know the story, I understand what it is supposed to mean, and I disagree with it.

Perhaps Lucifer had enough respect for Adam and Eve that he believed they had a right to know? Unlike good old Jehova who always just "knows" whats best for us. :rolleyes:

Precisely. This "God" fears that humankind would realise their potential to become their own Gods.

So you dont believe the story, yet you have an opinion on the story that supports your beliefs that are against God and for lucifer?

But anyway, you call it "respect" when lucifer felt we had a "right to know", but you admit that we lacked judgement between good and evil. since we lacked judgement, this knowledge only hurt us rather than benefit us.

Its like me teaching my 5 year old little brother how to use a gun. At 5 years old, the average kid doesnt have the right judgement about when to use a gun and the dangers it could bring. So imagine if my excuse was "oh i respect my little brother and his life, and feel he has the right to know" that would be complete bullshit. the only person who would teach a child how to use a gun would be somebody wanting to cause harm.

So either way, the serpent, lucifer, or whatever you wanna call him screwed us over.

But you still didnt answer my question. You mentioned that humans at that time lacked judgement between good and evil. In your opinion, what prescence of good and evil even existed? do you just blame god for being evil? what makes u say that they lacked judgement? what action occured that proves they didnt know how to discern between the two. What does evil even mean to you? If you ask anybody else, they will say it was eating the fruit that was the first sin we committed, but you obviously disagree, so what do you think?


Eating the fruit was wrong, you say? In that case, your very existance is "wrongg". According to the Bible, we are all Adam and Eve's children, and without their knowledge of good and evil, shame, and the seven deadly sins, none of us would exist. After all, fornication is the "original sin".

No human is perfect in his or her judgement. All of us make mistakes. After all, we're only human.


No, I dont believe that fornication is original sin. God told us to go forth and multiply and fill the earth. Im dont believe that once we ate the fruit, that adam grew a penis and eve grew a vagina and developed the urge to fuck. They woulda had sex whether or not they knew good and evil, shame or whatever. and again, why do we lack judgement? what is a mistake in your eyes? doing somethin wrong according to god? lucifer? satanism?


Permit me to ask what you think is right and wrong.
Is it right to condemn a man for living his life in a wholesome way without the guidance of your "almighty"?
Is it wrong to feel the urge to have sex out of love and to ensure the survival of your species?
Is it right to blindly follow a code of laws only because your parents have taught you so, or should you seek a path that is right for your own self?

You may find that your answers differ from those of God.

Lets see..
1. What do you consider a "wholesome way"? either way my answer is no, I dont believe its right to condemn anybody for how they choose to live. No matter what religion you are, you shouldnt judge others because nobody is perfect. If somebody condemns another, its because of their ignorance, not because their religion says so. If youre talking about if its ok for god to condemn them, well, thats none of my business.

2. Honestly, have you, or anybody youve ever met had an urge to fuck in order to ensure survival of the human race? Im not an expert in the area, but I dont believe humans have been on the endangered species list yet. C'mon, people have sex out of love because of lust, not because they fear us getting wiped out and want their legacy to live on. This question is irrelevant.

3. No, I dont believe its right to blindly believe anythin jus cuz momma said so. No matter what religion, of course people need to experience shit themselves so they can understand things. God doesnt say not to question anything, parents and preachers do.

I dont think these answers differ too much or go against god. It may go against your idea of god, but that doesnt mean its true. If I looked at god the same way you did I wouldnt like him too much either