I came up with this synthesis as a bit of a proof-of-concept, it's not meant to be practical, it's just to show that it can be done.

1. Depolymerization: Polystyrene -> Styrene

2. Hydrocyanation: Styrene + HCN -> 1-cyano-2-phenyl-ethane

3. Grignard reaction: 1-cyano-2-phenyl-ethane + methylmagnesium bromide -> 1-phenylpropan-2-one

4. Reductive Amination: 1-phenylpropan-2-one + methylamine -> Methamphetamine

Taadaa.

good job?

are you trying to prove someone wrong?

Haha, fuck yes.

This had been a thought experiment of mine for about a week now, ever since I learned the structure of styrene. Due to the proximity of what I was learning at the time, I thought that the best way to do this would be to bubble ozone (or KMnO4) through it to yield benzaldehyde, and then have fun with that. Otherwise, it would be easy to use this method (http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/chemistry/carey/student/olc/ch15hydroboration_oxidationalkenes.html) to make PhEtOH, then oxidize to phenylacetic acid (with bleach and Ni++ of course), then P2P, then reductively aminate.

Too bad depolymerization doesn't work. :(

You got any references?

Too bad depolymerization doesn't work. :(

Indeed. :(

So, how are you going to depolomorize the styrofoam?

I think I see a problem with your synth!:eek:

Adding the HCN would produce 1-cyano-1-phenylethane rather than 2-cyano... because the H bonds to the terminal carbon (Markavnikov's rule) and the CN goes onto the central carbon. You'd make beta(i think)-nitrile-phenylethane. You would however be able to reduce the nitrile to an amine and make beta-methyl-phenethylamine, but that would not be very useful if you wanted to attempt meth.

So anyway, to "anti-markavnikov", you would need BH3 and then it would work.

Also, can I get a ref for #3? I don't see how you could just remove the nitrile.

Alternatively, instead of dicking around with HCN (:eek:), you could use HN3 (with BH3 of course) and then reduce that to the amine; and THEN use the Grignard. If you truly did want to take that route. It's rather tricky with the Grignard though.

I think I see a problem with your synth!:eek:

Adding the HCN would produce 1-cyano-1-phenylethane rather than 2-cyano... because the H bonds to the terminal carbon (Markavnikov's rule) and the CN goes onto the central carbon. You'd make beta(i think)-nitrile-phenylethane. You would however be able to reduce the nitrile to an amine and make beta-methyl-phenethylamine, but that would not be very useful if you wanted to attempt meth.

So anyway, to "anti-markavnikov", you would need BH3 and then it would work.


I was aware that it would favor the non-useful product, but that's not particularly important. This isn't about getting useful yields, after all. :P

I came up

:mad: YOU came up with is? You must be kidding, i feel like putting my foot so far up your ass right now you have no fucking idea.
Heck your probably posting this here because you have no clue if it works or not, so let me clear this up for you cockfag:

-No need to Depolymerization: Polystyrene -> Styrene, you can buy Styrene !

Now i can't find the exact hive one, but i will give you a screenshot of the one from WD which was posted around back in 200/2001:

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6656/88036967eb2.jpg

If there are any still non-believers i will fucking dig up the old hive one and post it here!
As you can see the WD is not identical, because at the end of 12 pages the reaction is "optimised" and i am not copypasting 12 pages for some cock eating idiot :mad:

Go die in a fire:)

All he did was copypaste hard work from the hive/WD and post it as his, what a fucking idiot.

I think I see a problem with your synth!:eek:

Adding the HCN would produce 1-cyano-1-phenylethane rather than 2-cyano... because the H bonds to the terminal carbon (Markavnikov's rule) and the CN goes onto the central carbon. You'd make beta(i think)-nitrile-phenylethane. You would however be able to reduce the nitrile to an amine and make beta-methyl-phenethylamine, but that would not be very useful if you wanted to attempt meth.

So anyway, to "anti-markavnikov", you would need BH3 and then it would work.

Also, can I get a ref for #3? I don't see how you could just remove the nitrile.

Alternatively, instead of dicking around with HCN (:eek:), you could use HN3 (with BH3 of course) and then reduce that to the amine; and THEN use the Grignard. If you truly did want to take that route. It's rather tricky with the Grignard though.

Don't bother, if you really want i can send you all the work that was done about it.

Don't bother, if you really want i can send you all the work that was done about it.

Yes plz.

Oh, and who knows, maybe he just thought of it independently?

Yes plz.

Oh, and who knows, maybe he just thought of it independently?

email?

and i highly doubt so, but sill apart from the copy pasta work it is a great discussion subject :)

:mad: YOU came up with is? You must be kidding, i feel like putting my foot so far up your ass right now you have no fucking idea.
Heck your probably posting this here because you have no clue if it works or not, so let me clear this up for you cockfag:
.

to be fair, there's no high concept chemistry here, so he may well have done it himself...

and it's diffrent to what you posted....

and there's a million and one ways to go from styene to meth, i'd imagine...

how about:

styrene > one-pot hydroboration-suzuki with N-methyl-N-Boc-2-iodo-ethylamine > trifluroacetic acid > triethylamine = meth

styrene > oxidative hydroboration > appel iodination > appropriate grignard > deprotection = meth


and in regards to grignard addition to nitriles, the initial product is the imminium (imine? iminiate? dunno...) - magnesium salt, which is then cleaved under hydrolysed during aqueous workup to the carbonyl, see here:


http://www.organic-chemistry.org/namedreactions/grignard-reaction.shtm

to be fair, there's no high concept chemistry here, so he may well have done it himself...

and it's diffrent to what you posted....

and there's a million and one ways to go from styene to meth, i'd imagine...

how about:

styrene > one-pot hydroboration-suzuki with N-methyl-N-Boc-2-iodo-ethylamine > trifluroacetic acid > triethylamine = meth

styrene > oxidative hydroboration > appel iodination > appropriate grignard > deprotection = meth


and in regards to grignard addition to nitriles, the initial product is the imminium (imine? iminiate? dunno...) - magnesium salt, which is then cleaved under hydrolysed during aqueous workup to the carbonyl, see here:


http://www.organic-chemistry.org/namedreactions/grignard-reaction.shtm

If you would have read my post fully, i explain that there is the exact same thing it the latter pages, but i am not going through 12 pages of text for this.
Anyways it doesnt matter, i just hate it when people do not give credit where due.

But yes i can't agree more with you more. I like the first one more tho' (trifluroacetic acid = i like my body parts too much).

email?

ns9908@yahoo.com

If you would have read my post fully, i explain that there is the exact same thing it the latter pages, but i am not going through 12 pages of text for this.
Anyways it doesnt matter, i just hate it when people do not give credit where due.

But yes i can't agree more with you more. I like the first one more tho' (trifluroacetic acid = i like my body parts too much).

I DID read your post fully, then i instantly forgot most of it... ;)

och, TFA isn't too bad - it'll give you a nasty burn though... Now HF, there's something I wouldn't fuck with...

Lol, as soon as bongtips leaves, registration opens and totse slowly reverts back to meth.

Lol, as soon as bongtips leaves, registration opens and totse slowly reverts back to meth.

Nah, Beryllium's been around for a while, he just doesn't post much.

Lol, as soon as bongtips leaves, registration opens and totse slowly reverts back to meth.

yes, well, that's not really a problem as long as there's not threads like "hey, how do i get hold of red phos ?!"

oh, wait...

oh dear...

yes, well, that's not really a problem as long as there's not threads like "hey, how do i get hold of red phos ?!"

oh, wait...

oh dear...

i c wut u did thar!

Doesn't mean he didn't come up with on his own, though.

It may well be that he has never been to the hive or WD etc. The investigation of styrene has tons of detail over at WD and most people have heard of it at some point along the line so 'twould be a silly move to think you could get away with claiming it as your own when TOTSE shares members with WD and indeed has a little interest in some of the same areas as WD. QED.


....but then again, stranger things have happened....

It's a bit insulting to be accused of copying work on such a trivial bit of chemistry. This was, as nshanin said, nothing more than a thought experiment. I figured that the various posters here would appreciate this interesting tidbit, instead I get bitched at. :mad:

Also, on the subject of depolymerization, wouldn't pyrolysis do the trick?

It's a bit insulting to be accused of copying work on such a trivial bit of chemistry. This was, as nshanin said, nothing more than a thought experiment. I figured that the various posters here would appreciate this interesting tidbit, instead I get bitched at. :mad:

Also, on the subject of depolymerization, wouldn't pyrolysis do the trick?

You get bitched at because you literally copied hive work (from Aurelius i recall)! I have no doubt that you could have thought of this, but common the layout is identical to the one where it first appeared at. Either ways this is a great conversation topic. I will dig up the hive page so you can see (if you haven't already ;) ) what they got up to.

How about this...


1. Take a styrofoam cup

2. Get a bunch of Meth

3. Fill cup with Meth

4. Tada ! Cup o' Meth !


lovely !

You get bitched at because you literally copied hive work (from Aurelius i recall)! I have no doubt that you could have thought of this, but common the layout is identical to the one where it first appeared at. Either ways this is a great conversation topic. I will dig up the hive page so you can see (if you haven't already ;) ) what they got up to.

if you look deep enough in newsgroups you can probobly find that every original idea is not original. why is it so hard to accept for you that two people came up with the same thing?
this isent that horribly complicated, and for fucks sake, Leibniz and Newton came up with CALCULUS independently.

if you look deep enough in newsgroups you can probobly find that every original idea is not original. why is it so hard to accept for you that two people came up with the same thing?
this isent that horribly complicated, and for fucks sake, Leibniz and Newton came up with CALCULUS independently.

Fuck that its layed out in the same fucking way. Doesn't matter, lets continue with the discussion:

1) Styrene can be bought
2) Working with HCN is NOT a good idea, seriously.

2) Working with HCN is NOT a good idea, seriously.

http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/chemistry/carey/student/olc/ch15hydroboration_oxidationalkenes.html

That's why you use peroxide, hydroxide, and BH3.

http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/chemistry/carey/student/olc/ch15hydroboration_oxidationalkenes.html

That's why you use peroxide, hydroxide, and BH3.

Not bad, better than the first one at least :)

It's a bit insulting to be accused of copying work on such a trivial bit of chemistry. This was, as nshanin said, nothing more than a thought experiment. I figured that the various posters here would appreciate this interesting tidbit, instead I get bitched at. :mad:

Also, on the subject of depolymerization, wouldn't pyrolysis do the trick?

someone I read a story about once worked on this very thing about 8 years ago, pyrolysis can do the trick, but its really a horrid pain in ass considering the availablility of the substance in question.

How about this...


1. Take a styrofoam cup

2. Get a bunch of Meth

3. Fill cup with Meth

4. Tada ! Cup o' Meth !


lovely !

Easiest method I've seen so far.

WIN.

stoopet noop posted that shit in his first post on the "Rare Books" thread, I think. (Actually, it was an archive with numerous articles and hive threads)

There must be some sort of catch, thou' T_T

stateofhack posted that shit in his first post on the "Rare Books" thread, I think. (Actually, it was an archive with numerous articles and hive threads).

There must be some sort of catch, thou' T_T

fixed

The catch? It will fucking blow up in your face and kill you painfully if you mess it up :(

Oh yes! I posted that, one of my "random" archive collection, good call there!

So yeah you can grab that paper in one of them and see what i am saying that his work is basically copy pasta:)