View Full Version : MEKP soaked PETN
Before i attempt to carry this out, i would like to know if MEKP and PETN can be mixed, not in terms of plasticizing but in terms of making PETN fuse sensitive. While in a new thread, i would also like to know what could i use to plasticize PETN or PETN/MEKP mix? I can’t find PIB at all btw.
In my dream i packed a clear fishtank airpump tubing with PETN using a dowel to compress it in there really well, 1 end plugged, other end is prepared immediately before det, by applying few drops of MEKP and inserting a fuse/igniter. Feasible?
Then such improvised detcord could be tested in variety of densities, and tubing diameters. ETN detcord tests results could follow.
Also is there a practical/commercial use of picric acid detcord due to the high brisance? I think it would be really good in cutting apps.
diffview4290
2008-07-21, 16:28
why is this thread tagged "exploding tampon"?
why not try DDNP?
warweed12
2008-07-22, 06:11
mekp + fuse = very bad the mekp absorbs into the fuse and can det on contact with flame
mekp + fuse = very bad the mekp absorbs into the fuse and can det on contact with flame
Im aware of that, thats why i specified in my post that the fuse would be inserted immediately before the blast. Also, dipping the the end of the fuse that is to be inserted into "MEKPETN" in paraffin is a simple solution for that. Use your imagination :)
why is this thread tagged "exploding tampon"?
MEKP+Tampax?or maybe im just desperately tring to bring responses to this thread :)
why not try DDNP?
IME DDNP is more sensitive/prone to go off without a warning, but thats could be because my picric from ASA is a bitch and i probably won't attempt again untill i can get phenol.
MEKP is suprisingly insensitive for an energetic peroxide, and other than the smell it could be my favourite primary, second to Ag2C2.
Sorry for the double post :(
BUT SERIOUSLY?!? I just want to know if there will be any reactions between MEKP and PETN/ETN and I know that both of you people who replied in my thread are knowledgeable! Why does "how do i post images" or "what to do with bunch of roman candles" or "fire water" FFS gets way more replies than this? I promise i will post results / link to youtube vids but please let me know if ill blow my face off by mixing MEKP with PETN ?? I tried with .1g and 1ml of MEKP and they seem to like each other but its been 2 days and such a small scale experiment doesnt necessarily represent what will hapen when i soak a gram or 2. Any possible interactions? PETN was neutralized by dissolving in acetone and adding NaHCO3 solution, MEKP is a bit acidic i presume but ive read that neutralizing peroxides for greater stability is bunch of bullshit since acidic peroxides are more insensitive than they would be in basic ph range.
diffview4290
2008-07-24, 21:00
In my dreamwhy not just say... I PLAN TO
and is the concept of a blasting cap THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
it doesn't even need to be metal!
dipping the the end of the fuse that is to be inserted into "MEKPETN" in paraffin is a simple solution for that. Use your imagination
THAT COULD be a blasting cap if you think about it
why not just say... I PLAN TO
and is the concept of a blasting cap THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
Is the concept of a self contained blasting cap within detcord THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
THAT COULD be a blasting cap if you think about it
Ok thanks for the obvious, but my question is the "inertness" between mekp and petn, and noone is answering that... eh back to roguesci
asilentbob
2008-07-25, 02:17
Diffview, your a retard. The OP is obviously intelligent enough to know what a blasting cap is if hes been making PETN and has made DDNP.
OP, MEKP acts as a solvent and will likely dissolve parrafin somewhat.
I don't think any of us know for sure about incompatibilities between MEKP and PETN. I would say that both neutral they should be ok. BUT if the PETN stays crystalline and doesn't dissolve you have the crystals of PETN surrounded by MEKP... If 2 crystals press together and generate a tremendous pressure in one very very very very small area compressing the liquid MEKP primary... it wouldn't be good. Think sand + MEKP... obviously not as dangerous as that would be, but you get my meaning. Overall I think you should be fine.
You might consider reducing your PETN to as fine a powder as possible before mixing. I can't remember anything about the oxygen balance of either of those explosives, but if they have excess oxygen you might consider dissolving a small bit of some kind of plastic in the MEKP to even out the OB. Since MEKP is a ketone similar to acetone you might see how well polystyrene foam dissolves in MEKP.
Diffview, your a retard. The OP is obviously intelligent enough to know what a blasting cap is if hes been making PETN and has made DDNP.
OP, MEKP acts as a solvent and will likely dissolve parrafin somewhat.
I don't think any of us know for sure about incompatibilities between MEKP and PETN. I would say that both neutral they should be ok. BUT if the PETN stays crystalline and doesn't dissolve you have the crystals of PETN surrounded by MEKP... If 2 crystals press together and generate a tremendous pressure in one very very very very small area compressing the liquid MEKP primary... it wouldn't be good. Think sand + MEKP... obviously not as dangerous as that would be, but you get my meaning. Overall I think you should be fine.
You might consider reducing your PETN to as fine a powder as possible before mixing. I can't remember anything about the oxygen balance of either of those explosives, but if they have excess oxygen you might consider dissolving a small bit of some kind of plastic in the MEKP to even out the OB. Since MEKP is a ketone similar to acetone you might see how well polystyrene foam dissolves in MEKP.
Ah, there it is! THANK YOU! good point on MEKP eating paraffin! As far as the oxygen balance i didnt look at in untill now, both PETN and MEKP have negative oxygen balance, so i think that ETN will be a better substitute than PETN having a positive OB to compensate somewhat for MEKP in right proportions, followed by ETN/PETN mixture through the rest of the detcord - which should work pretty well. Also i wouldnt dare to press PETN with MEKP already in the mix just as much as i would not dare to store peroxide based blasting caps... its scarry stuff imo :)
Thanks for the valuable input.
My PETN synth:
65.8ml of 67.2% HNO3
48.6ml of 98% H2SO4
20g of min. 97% pentaerythritol
mixed acids chilled to -7*C in ice/water/NH4NO3 and pentaerythritol slowly added over the course of 20 minutes. temperature was maintained below 5*C and in last 5minutes of nitration adding pentaerythritol didnt increase the temp so ~6g was dumped in all at once, shortly after my corning magnetic stirrer couldnt create visible vortex (or completley stopped?) in the dense creamy white mixture due to viscosity, so the mixture was stirred with a thermometer for about 5 more minutes. Then, by the recommendation of powerlabs website, mixture was placed in a water bath and heated to approx 45*C for 20mins, and allowed to cool to 30*C for 10mins then dumped into 1L of cold distilled water, decanted and filtered.
Yield is still drying and I will weigh it tomorrow before n after ethanol purification and neutralization. Ill be sure to post the results.
asilentbob
2008-07-25, 17:13
IIRC that powerlabs guy is a douche IRL... or such has been said before... somewhere...
I'd stick to getting synth data from COPAE, roguesci, etc..
IIRC that powerlabs guy is a douche IRL... or such has been said before... somewhere...
I'd stick to getting synth data from COPAE, roguesci, etc..
:) the only piece of info i got from him was heating the vessel to "increase yield by nitrating most sulfoesters into PETN" which seems accurate, considering the yields but there are arguments from both sides. I didn't follow any particular published synth, but merely tried to calculate the ratios myself, which turned out quite similar to powerlabs' quantities... btw what do you mean he's a douche? that he's full of shit or a jackass? lulz :)
CoP&E ftw.
asilentbob
2008-07-26, 20:20
Douche as in a jackass... but having not met him my self... dunno.
Random_Looney
2008-07-26, 21:11
:) the only piece of info i got from him was heating the vessel to "increase yield by nitrating most sulfoesters into PETN" which seems accurate, considering the yields but there are arguments from both sides. I didn't follow any particular published synth, but merely tried to calculate the ratios myself, which turned out quite similar to powerlabs' quantities... btw what do you mean he's a douche? that he's full of shit or a jackass? lulz :)
CoP&E ftw.
His PETN synth has been called into question. Note that I say "his" because puportedly, he failed to synth it and asked other people for pictures of their synths to use on his site as his own. Supposedly he offered to send cash in exchange for a picture, and was outed publicly. I never saw it except for on another forum, so I dunno.
His PETN synth has been called into question. Note that I say "his" because puportedly, he failed to synth it and asked other people for pictures of their synths to use on his site as his own. Supposedly he offered to send cash in exchange for a picture, and was outed publicly. I never saw it except for on another forum, so I dunno.
Ha he does seem like a jackass indeed...
Well while we are on topic here are some pics:
http://i34.tinypic.com/es6ib6.jpg
PETN drying
http://i35.tinypic.com/aabrqu.jpg
PETN drying some more
http://i35.tinypic.com/vo8ikj.jpg
These make good blasting cap shells
http://i34.tinypic.com/16qalh.jpg
Attempt at plasticizing PETN with NC and APNC and AP/NC/Pet. jelly... still awaiting my PIB caulk ;)
On the pic is 90g but still drying so big portion of that is water weight, either way volume wise thats 5 times what the starting pentaerythritol looked like (20g) :D
First time i synthed it i used powerlabs step by step and the finished product did go off with a really hard hit with a hammer, and got completley set off by less than a gram of pressed ap (petn/ap compound cap).
So I can vouch for his synth. I also got somewhat good yield. IDK the guy tho.
nuclearrabbit
2008-07-27, 12:03
Honestly, I would be surprised if anything reacted. No harm in testing like .1g.
There was a discussion on APC about Sam Bar00z. He's not as good with chem as he'd like you to think and it should be obvious to anyone who looks close enough. He's also reportedly banned people from the forum for questioning him. I've never seen the forum in working condition though.
IIRC I had pics of a .5kg PETN synth last year. It's impressive stuff. Hope you have fun with it.
Honestly, I would be surprised if anything reacted. No harm in testing like .1g.
There was a discussion on APC about Sam Bar00z. He's not as good with chem as he'd like you to think and it should be obvious to anyone who looks close enough. He's also reportedly banned people from the forum for questioning him. I've never seen the forum in working condition though.
IIRC I had pics of a .5kg PETN synth last year. It's impressive stuff. Hope you have fun with it.
Nice.. I would be scared being in presence of such ammount of PETN...
Any interest in PETN vs ETN vs wooden board vids?
BTW Why does it say that i need moderator to approve my post in the ANFO thread??
nuclearrabbit
2008-08-03, 19:13
Any interest in PETN vs ETN vs wooden board vids?
Of course. We're always wanting to see what other people are doing.