The idea of God has fascinated and horrified people for years, but if we look at the Judeo-Christian God what we will find is a man. A man full of faults and hungry for power, a man that claims to be both omnipotent and omniscient thought throughout the bible he proves himself wrong.

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

This is a blaring obvious example, if God was omniscient he would know to either never create man in the first place, or create a more evolved man that would be less prone to failure.

Leviticus 1:8 And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat, in order upon the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
1:9 But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of "a sweet savour unto the LORD".

Again we see that God has a need for sacrifice and attention from his people. Why would a God that knows all and is all powerful have a need for human approbation? Well the answer is very simple; “he” is not God at all, but a creation of man. Which brings up another interesting fact, in the Bible God is always referred to as a male. Why would a being that is purely spiritual have a gender? Again, because God was made by man.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This brings up another question. Why does god need people to fear him? The answer is very simple, because without fear how can you control the masses? Jesus knew that he couldn’t have a successful religion without scaring people, so he like so many others tried to make God a vengeful and angry character.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The more I read the bible the more I see how wrong this verse is. God didn’t create man in God’s own image, but rather man created God in man’s own image.

in the Bible God is always referred to as a male.

That's what your 1000th re translation says. For all you know, Hebrew might have a genderless personal pronoun that was used which was lost in the translation

That's what your 1000th re translation says. For all you know, Hebrew might have a genderless personal pronoun that was used which was lost in the translation

pwned!!

That's what your 1000th re translation says. For all you know, Hebrew might have a genderless personal pronoun that was used which was lost in the translation

For all you know the original Hebrew might have been a "How to create a bullshit religion for dummies" guidebook.

In other words, NOT a valid way to argue the number of interesting points and questions the OP brings up. Either try again, or go play so the big boys and girls can talk.

That's what your 1000th re translation says. For all you know, Hebrew might have a genderless personal pronoun that was used which was lost in the translation

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they translate the English bible directly from the dead sea scrolls? So really it's not the "1000th re translation", but the first if they are getting it from the dead sea scrolls. Also I don't think that the translators would mistakenly call God a he over and over again. Genesis 1:27 isn't the only time God is referred to as he it happens many times in both the old and new testament.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they translate the English bible directly from the dead sea scrolls? So really it's not the "1000th re translation", but the first if they are getting it from the dead sea scrolls. Also I don't think that the translators would mistakenly call God a he over and over again. Genesis 1:27 isn't the only time God is referred to as he it happens many times in both the old and new testament.

Hmm, well the bible as we know it was translated from greek to latin to the vernacular. And before it is assumed translated from Hebrew to Greek but no such original exist so SOL there.

Being Epicurian do you know the Greek moto that man is but a reflection in the mirror of the universe? This perhaps being meant by image, no?

well IMO its obvious that this perception of god isnt the true god that exists...
I believe youre suppose to take all of these verses with a grain of salt...its not to be worshipped word for word, because millions of people could read it and take it a million different ways (which causes chaos and division, and endless denominations of christians like we have today..)

In the bible it mentions how spirits are not sexual beings, they are not intended to have sex, spirits do not reproduce. these spirits have no penis or vagina. god sed he created both of them (male and female) in his image..he didnt say "I shall create man in my image-with a penis, that is" I think that back in the day, since males were dominant in the world at the time and females didnt have much power back then, they jus assumed that he was male. but either way, If youre reading the bible, I feel you should be trying to get a deeper message from what you are reading, not worrying about whether this entity is male of female or whatever. I think that back in the day they referred to spirits and stuff like they were humans cause it was easier to understand..if they didnt refer to god as "he" do you suppose it would be better to refer to god as "it" in every passage?

Oh and no the english bible wasnt interpreted strait from the dead sea scrolls....they barely rediscovered them in 1947.. theres not an original copy of the bible in the form of scrolls...if you do some research, youll just find an endless chain of bibles reinterpreted from older bibles, bibles of other languages, etc...

your perception of the God of the bible is parallel to how many view the church.."full of faults and hungry for power, a man that claims to be both omnipotent and omniscient thought throughout the bible he proves himself wrong"....that sounds like the church to me. since there is sin in the world, man has taken god and created this religion that is full of corruption. All of the views you mention are the same views that the stupid sheep-like masses believe and put their soul on...but like I said focusing on those things isnt what this should all be about..

on another note, think about every question/assumption youve mention relating to God/mans relationshiip.... try to compare it to a parent/child relationship... imagine if a child came up with ideas saying "why would mom/dad, who is so powerful and great, gave life to me, supports my life and has (what seems) an infinite amount of knowledge...have such a need for my approbation? If mom and dad are so powerful, why do they need me to fear them and listen to what they say?....therefore parents are just an idea created by kids like me!" i dont know if those are the best examples, but my point is, compared to god, humans knowledge is nothing...there is a bigger picture and just becuz we dont understand rite now doesnt mean that god is wrong or doesnt exist.... I use this parent/child relationship to many other issues that come to god and man, hopefully it helps u also

on another note, think about every question/assumption youve mention relating to God/mans relationshiip.... try to compare it to a parent/child relationship... imagine if a child came up with ideas saying "why would mom/dad, who is so powerful and great, gave life to me, supports my life and has (what seems) an infinite amount of knowledge...have such a need for my approbation? If mom and dad are so powerful, why do they need me to fear them and listen to what they say?....therefore parents are just an idea created by kids like me!" i dont know if those are the best examples, but my point is, compared to god, humans knowledge is nothing...there is a bigger picture and just becuz we dont understand rite now doesnt mean that god is wrong or doesnt exist.... I use this parent/child relationship to many other issues that come to god and man, hopefully it helps u also

Many, many points against this, but I'll leave it to these two:

1) Parents need children to listen to them so they won't cause them more trouble. On the other hand, what difference does it to make to an infinite being whether or not humans do this or that? It doesn't affect god at all.

2) Obviously those that think god was created by man have much more reason to believe so than just one objection to the judeo-christian god.

The idea of God has fascinated and horrified people for years, but if we look at the Judeo-Christian God what we will find is a man. A man full of faults and hungry for power, a man that claims to be both omnipotent and omniscient thought throughout the bible he proves himself wrong.

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

This is a blaring obvious example, if God was omniscient he would know to either never create man in the first place, or create a more evolved man that would be less prone to failure.

Leviticus 1:8 And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat, in order upon the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
1:9 But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of "a sweet savour unto the LORD".

Again we see that God has a need for sacrifice and attention from his people. Why would a God that knows all and is all powerful have a need for human approbation? Well the answer is very simple; “he” is not God at all, but a creation of man. Which brings up another interesting fact, in the Bible God is always referred to as a male. Why would a being that is purely spiritual have a gender? Again, because God was made by man.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This brings up another question. Why does god need people to fear him? The answer is very simple, because without fear how can you control the masses? Jesus knew that he couldn’t have a successful religion without scaring people, so he like so many others tried to make God a vengeful and angry character.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The more I read the bible the more I see how wrong this verse is. God didn’t create man in God’s own image, but rather man created God in man’s own image.


Why do people bother writing up long rants like this? God isn't even real. Why discuss him as if he is?

Why do people bother writing up long rants like this? God isn't even real. Why discuss him as if he is?

I too have pondered this thought and tried to hammer out the idea that no such true omnipotent thing which performs miracles exist. There are no miracles or surprises. Though certainly you can be an atheist or a theist to be Christian and understand the word of god and I believe that is the bigger picture here.

"Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do" - Jesus

...

Well of course you are going to find imperfection in the anthropomorphic conceptions of God; man isn't perfect!

Just because these conceptions changed and altered and became anthropomorphized over thousands of years doesn't mean they never represented anything else.

I think the simplest answer for all your questions about why God allows the world to be the way it is, is that God is perfect.

That's what your 1000th re translation says. For all you know, Hebrew might have a genderless personal pronoun that was used which was lost in the translation

Actually, Hebrew does NOT have a GPP, and so God is referred to in the masculine.

Well of course you are going to find imperfection in the anthropomorphic conceptions of God; man isn't perfect!

Just because these conceptions changed and altered and became anthropomorphized over thousands of years doesn't mean they never represented anything else.

I think the simplest answer for all your questions about why God allows the world to be the way it is, is that God is perfect.

Well that may be, but it seems to me that the Judeo-Christian God has a lot of imperfections, and we don't have to look very hard to find them. God drowning the world because it didn't suit him, or God laying cities to waste because they weren't holy enough for him. Couldn't he take more nonviolent approach? Maybe violence and chaos really is the only way to peace, but I like to think that if God was omnipotent, omniscient, and actually cared about his people he would find a more peaceful way to maintain order while still letting people have freewill.

Maybe violence and chaos really is the only way to peace, but I like to think that if God was omnipotent, omniscient, and actually cared about his people he would find a more peaceful way to maintain order while still letting people have freewill.

Well there we go, personifying God again, silly goose.

If God is perfect, how could God leave so called "bad" things 'out of the picture'? It would be incomplete, imperfect.

Maybe the more peaceful way that "order" could be maintained while allowing people freewill already does exist, but its another part of reality. Maybe the "more peaceful way" is just people making better choices with their freewill, and the reason we aren't experiencing that is because people just aren't making those choices.

Maybe the more peaceful way that "order" could be maintained while allowing people freewill already does exist, but its another part of reality. Maybe the "more peaceful way" is just people making better choices with their freewill, and the reason we aren't experiencing that is because people just aren't making those choices.

Why couldn't God just give people a greater capacity to recognize their own bad choices? That way "he" wouldn't have to send any of "his" creations to hell and everyone could be happy. :)

Why couldn't God just give people a greater capacity to recognize their own bad choices? That way "he" wouldn't have to send any of "his" creations to hell and everyone could be happy. :)

Why would you point out how silly the Christian conception of God is, but still hold onto their idea of eternal damnation simply for making a subjectively bad choice?

I think people do have the ability to recognize what they may feel was (subjectively) a bad decision. I think "regret" is one of the indicators. I think people also have the freewill to ignore these feelings.

That's what your 1000th re translation says. For all you know, Hebrew might have a genderless personal pronoun that was used which was lost in the translation

The misogynistic nature of the Bible makes it apparent that the Judeo-Christian deity is a male. Also, according to Genesis Adam was made first, so it seems more likely that the female was designed as a counterpart to the male who was made in God's image than the other way around.

That's what your 1000th re translation says. For all you know, Hebrew might have a genderless personal pronoun that was used which was lost in the translation

'God'?

Maybe the more peaceful way that "order" could be maintained while allowing people freewill already does exist, but its another part of reality. Maybe the "more peaceful way" is just people making better choices with their freewill, and the reason we aren't experiencing that is because people just aren't making those choices.

It evades the faithless heart as to how a God can exist without the sole blame resting upon It. Apparently, if I believe in God, I'm supposed to be some sort of Hail Mary Automoton with no personal accountability or responsibility - my sins are all God's plan, or some nonsense of the like. There's a promise in the Bible of having a stone heart replaced with one of flesh...the meaning evades those who haven't had it happen. God doesn't wipe out evil with plagues and famines much anymore...nor does It do much good by creation of beautiful gardens and new species much anymore. For the most part, It transforms the heart...the motivations, desires, and strategies of the individual towards creating a more true world. There is no promise for wealth, nor health, nor any other material comforts. There is, however, a promise of freedom from anxiety - the ultimate symptom of a lost soul and lost mind. It's a promise of rebirth - the death of self obsession...the death of self-destruction; birth into reality, birth into empathy.

It evades the faithless heart as to how a God can exist without the sole blame resting upon It. Apparently, if I believe in God, I'm supposed to be some sort of Hail Mary Automoton with no personal accountability or responsibility - my sins are all God's plan, or some nonsense of the like.

My problem with Christianity isn't just the fact that the Christian God alows so much sin and pain. It's the fact that he finds it necessary to punish his creation so strictly. Live a charitable life without accepting Jesus and you'll spend an eternity in hell. Does that seem just to you?

My problem with Christianity isn't just the fact that the Christian God alows so much sin and pain. It's the fact that he finds it necessary to punish his creation so strictly. Live a charitable life without accepting Jesus and you'll spend an eternity in hell. Does that seem just to you?

No, that doesn't seem just, nor is it just. Thankfully, what men at a podium tell you about God and scripture doesn't really mean much of anything other than 'I think I know God's will for YOU!'. Be discerning...is this man telling me what God knows to be best for me, or what this man thinks to be best for me (or maybe even for him)? Spiritual intoxication can lead to some grave twists of thought. Most dangerous of all, believing that your own will is that of God's. I don't know what God wants for you. I don't know if God wants to know you. I don't really know too much about God other than that It interacts with me on a daily basis without any conditions. Nothing I have ever done in my life made God go, "This guy's a lost cause. I'm out of here."

Here's what I gathered from the NT scriptures on heaven and hell (and this is just how I interpret it...probably wrong): Heaven is for those who choose at the time of judgment (or before) to repent so they can live in the presence of God. Those who choose to reject eternity are outright destroyed in a mercy killing...they choose to be no longer and God grants them this wish. And the Lake of Fire...that's a place reserved for the Dragon, where it is cast when its wish of waging war on God has been fulfilled and God has won.

I don't really know too much about God other than that It interacts with me on a daily basis without any conditions.


Care to elaborate on that?

Just on the point of It's body: Reality waits for me every day to be interacted with.
On It's mind: It drives inspired thoughts into me; a higher conscience than what I possessed before. A hunger for honesty both in words and motives. Rebuking of my lower thoughts...my lust for power, women, drugs, alcohol...my laziness...my arrogance. It thinks of ways to improve my life, and at any moment I may ask it for one of these such thoughts and it is given. "God, please, give me a solution to this roadblock." It always comes. It puts the mind at rest with a clear solution to enact by my body.
On It's heart: When terrorized by guilt, shame, fear, anger...it envelopes with warmth and melts away the bitter cold of hatred. Clearing my own heart so that I may work with my mind free of concerns regarding past and future.

The relationship I have with God is constantly clearing my heart of wrong motives, clearing my mind of problems, and allowing me the final decision as to whether my actions show gratitude or selfishness. I still am free, but now I have help...for indeed, I believe in Yeshua's name: God is Help.

Live a charitable life without accepting Jesus and you'll spend an eternity in hell. Does that seem just to you?

Living a charitable life could also be cognised as accepting Jesus. As Hex has referenced Jesus name means 'God'(or the highest/controlling principle*) is Help! Charity is also 'Help'. Living a charitable life could mean one has as one's highest principle ... 'Help', thus 'God is Help', Is Jesus.

Getting hung up on "Christianity's" version of God can simply be a case of having bought the BS taught by the control freaks masquarading as Christian. UNderstandable in the context of the dominant culture of our past, but the truth is there for those who seek.

(*The Greeks used the word Logos, translated as Word in the first chapter of the Gospel of John. Logos also means 'reason' as in the power or faculty of reason and it was this they taught was the highest or controlling principle of the universe. It can also be the highest principle of any individuals life, one's 'God'.)

Living a charitable life could also be cognised as accepting Jesus. As Hex has referenced Jesus name means 'God'(or the highest/controlling principle*) is Help! Charity is also 'Help'. Living a charitable life could mean one has as one's highest principle ... 'Help', thus 'God is Help', Is Jesus.


Yeah. Kinda how I've said it's Jesus's ideals you need to believe in and follow, not so much the man himself.

You can disbelieve in Jesus, but just by living in ways that he taught will give you heaven, because it's more a coondition, or state of consciousness that is developed than a reward for being a good boy.

UNderstandable in the context of the dominant culture of our past, but the truth is there for those who seek.


I don't see how you can lay claim to "truth" anymore than those "control freaks masquerading as Christians" can.

What do you (anyone proposing that salvation is reached by only following Jesus' path regardless of what you believe) have that others (those who propose a different system) don't? They can cite scripute too, and they can defend it with their convenient interpretations as well..

Care to elaborate on that?

Yes, Hex here has met God face to face. Hex has seen and talked with God.

I think this should explain everything else pretty well.

I don't see how you can lay claim to "truth" anymore than those "control freaks masquerading as Christians" can.

What do you (anyone proposing that salvation is reached by only following Jesus' path regardless of what you believe) have that others (those who propose a different system) don't? They can cite scripute too, and they can defend it with their convenient interpretations as well..

You "lay claim to truth" yourself Rust, I have said 'those who seek it will find it'. Can't remember the author but there's an adage: 'Distrust those who say they have the truth, rather trust those who say they are seeking it'. .. or words to that effect.

Still it's an interesting subject, 'what is truth'?

You "lay claim to truth" yourself Rust, I have said 'those who seek it will find it'. Can't remember the author but there's an adage: 'Distrust those who say they have the truth, rather trust those who say they are seeking it'. .. or words to that effect.

Still it's an interesting subject, 'what is truth'?

Your adage is shit...I would rather have a doctor who makes claims of truth concerning medical science, than I would someone still trying to find those truths operate on me. I would trust the learned doctor more than I would the unlearned one and most other human beings (yourself included) probably would as well.

The TRUTH (and Rust's point I think) is: Your baseless assertions are no more true than anyone else's baseless assertions.

For example: I can assert that this entire universe is nothing more than floating bits of fecal matter from an insanely complex creature who kicked off the entire universe, you, me and life as we know it with a grand and epic fart.

^----this horseshit is every bit as plausible as astral projection, zombies, evil fruit, talking snakes, people turning into pillars of salt, and mystical enlightenment*

I digress, the point is your baseless assertions concerning God/Jesus etc. are no more valid than my grand farter baseless assertion.

Gas be with you brother.

*regular enlightenment does exist and can be obtained through self help seminars, books and relaxation techniques and in no way gives its user any sort of mystical abilities or perceptions.

You "lay claim to truth" yourself Rust, I have said 'those who seek it will find it'. Can't remember the author but there's an adage: 'Distrust those who say they have the truth, rather trust those who say they are seeking it'. .. or words to that effect.

Still it's an interesting subject, 'what is truth'?

Well in the interest of fairness, you said more than that; you called the other perspective bullshit, which means you are essentially arguing theirs is not true. I've asked you how exactly is it better when - as far as I know - they have the same amount of "evidence" (e.g. reading the bible and providing convenient interpretations of passages) as you do.

What truth have I laid claim to that you yourself haven't allowed by virtue of your own usage?

As for your last question, I'm sorry but that just looks like an attempt to de-rail the thread. You saw no problem with not only claiming others don't have the truth (i.e. calling the other perspective bullshit) but also claiming that the truth is there fore those who seek it. You must already be operating under a definition of truth. I don't see why would need to define it now, after you've used it...

God never said God was perfect. God, for all we know, never said anything at all. It's pointless to talk about what 2000 year-old middle-eastern men believed God was like, as there is no way of knowing God, or what it thinks you ought to do, or if it's even there. The Title of your thread is attributing God with the imperfections of man. We do not know that God is perfect, or imperfect. WE DON'T KNOW!

We do not know that God is perfect, or imperfect. WE DON'T KNOW!

We sure don't. But, personally, I believe God exists and is perfect.

It's pointless to talk about what 2000 year-old middle-eastern men believed God was like, as there is no way of knowing God, or what it thinks you ought to do, or if it's even there.
It isn't pointless to talk about Christianity because one third of the world is Christian. The more you debate about religion the greater understanding that you'll have of it, and considering that one third of the people you talk to are Christians, it's a good religion to know a few things about. And yes, I agree with you it's impossible to know if God exists or not, but again the more you disscus theology the better grasp you'll have on it and through that you'll be closer to the truth.

Just on the point of It's body: Reality waits for me every day to be interacted with.
On It's mind: It drives inspired thoughts into me; a higher conscience than what I possessed before. A hunger for honesty both in words and motives. Rebuking of my lower thoughts...my lust for power, women, drugs, alcohol...my laziness...my arrogance. It thinks of ways to improve my life, and at any moment I may ask it for one of these such thoughts and it is given. "God, please, give me a solution to this roadblock." It always comes. It puts the mind at rest with a clear solution to enact by my body.
On It's heart: When terrorized by guilt, shame, fear, anger...it envelopes with warmth and melts away the bitter cold of hatred. Clearing my own heart so that I may work with my mind free of concerns regarding past and future.

The relationship I have with God is constantly clearing my heart of wrong motives, clearing my mind of problems, and allowing me the final decision as to whether my actions show gratitude or selfishness. I still am free, but now I have help...for indeed, I believe in Yeshua's name: God is Help.

Help? you can do every poetic thing in your post WITHOUT god. You can make your self more honest and more free without god. You don't need god to tell you drugs are bad. and You REALLY dont need God to tell you women are bad when if it wasnt for a woman you wouldnt be born.

the only reason you believe in him is because you have anxiety problems, because you gave up religion and felt as though your "soul" was lost as well as your mind. Then you found religion again and realized it helped you not feel so lost. So your mind is forever justifying a stupid concept tot he point where you sound like a crazy person such as in that post i quoted.

Embrace the unknown, dont fear it, dont become irrational because of it. because in the end of ends, your life is meaningless. so dont try to give it some temporary meaning. if you did your mind would be stuck in retrospect the whole time, just enjoy life the way You want to, not the way some book says everyone should live their life.

Help? you can do every poetic thing in your post WITHOUT god. You can make your self more honest and more free without god. You don't need god to tell you drugs are bad. and You REALLY dont need God to tell you women are bad when if it wasnt for a woman you wouldnt be born.

the only reason you believe in him is because you have anxiety problems, because you gave up religion and felt as though your "soul" was lost as well as your mind. Then you found religion again and realized it helped you not feel so lost. So your mind is forever justifying a stupid concept tot he point where you sound like a crazy person such as in that post i quoted.

Embrace the unknown, dont fear it, dont become irrational because of it. because in the end of ends, your life is meaningless. so dont try to give it some temporary meaning. if you did your mind would be stuck in retrospect the whole time, just enjoy life the way You want to, not the way some book says everyone should live their life.

NO! NO! NO!
If someone is following a Dogma, whether it be yours or his, all that matters is if it helps you feel you understand. A religion or way of thinking is a way of processing that which is unprocessable, and if it's helping someone do that, power to 'em!

NO! NO! NO!
If someone is following a Dogma, whether it be yours or his, all that matters is if it helps you feel you understand. A religion or way of thinking is a way of processing that which is unprocessable, and if it's helping someone do that, power to 'em!
I agree with you, to some extent. I would much rather take my time to analyze all of the evidence and draw my own conclusion. For a person to just blindly take the word of some random man on a podium seems irresponsible to me. Having said that I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and they should be free to believe whatever makes them happy.