Im very new to the world of backyard ballistics and am interested in getting started, but I have a few questions.

What are some easy, and simple projects that can be done with household items? I don't have access to very much which brings up my next question.

I'm a teenager who is obviously still living at home. My parents are the over protective type and would not want their little boy to do anything "dangerous." How do/did you guys deal with parents when you were getting started? Would they question you when you ordered random chemicals of the net, what did you tell them...

I know I am very noobish but I need a place to start, the only project I have done has been the tennis ball mortar. And of course my parents being dicks won't let me use it (aside from twice when i first made it.) They wouldn't even let me use it on the fourth.


EDIT: I have looked at many of the links on this forum, I would like some personal opinions of what worked when you were learning.

Do you have space? Living out in the country with lots of empty space is more conducive to actually being able to really do ANY pyro. Or if you have a place you can go to thats not too far off on family land... Because doing things on public property and/or in the city gives people a worse image of pyros and you are alot more likely to get in trouble.

If you are 18 you might be able to "crew" on some professional firework displays. Not only do you get to learn more and help with a great show... you also get the best seat possible and you get a paycheck. All you have to do is findout what company or companies do displays in your area and contact them telling them you are interested in getting more experience. Your parents would also be more likely to give you a bit of lee-way when they know you know what your doing.

Buying a good professional book is a great way to start learning. Some authors to search:
Takeo Shimizu, Tenny L. Davis, Tom Perrigrin,

When talking to your parents... If you explain that your more interested in the art behind it rather than just blowing shit up... you will get farther. IE aerial shells rather than big ground salutes.

Joining a pyrotechnic club near your area is also a really great way to get experience, possibly hands on building depending on your age. I believe there is a listing of many clubs on the Pyrotechnics Guild International (PGI) website at http://www.pgi.org/

A personal recommendation is to avoid http://www.skylighter.com... Their prices are quite high...

http://www.cannonfuse.com/
http://www.firefox-fx.com/
These places are pretty good.

Read product labels for many household things to find out what they contain. Most of the time they don't have a particular use in pyro, but your knowledge will grow and you will ocassionally find useful pure or nearly pure chemicals... Boric acid for instance that is in some roach killers... Some are actually like 100% boric acid...

Its a good idea to find a project you want to do, then search out chemicals for that project... Rather than find a house hold chemical and search for things you can do with it.

The whole house hold chemicals and pyro thing is kinda off... you have to understand that many years ago people very often used relativly pure chemicals for everyday things like fertillizing gardens where-as now we use mixes that contain alot of other shit thats useless for our goals. Most of the household chemicals now our only really somewhat useful for high explosives... which you should really shy away from...

If you do a bunch of research on a project like a basic black powder rocket... Then take that info to your parents and sit down and talk to them about it and make them understand that everything would be done safely they are much more likely to let you do it. If they understand that you know what you are doing they may even start ordering you chemicals for your birthday and christmas.

Try to find potassium nitrate, sulfur, and charcoal locally to get out of the price of shipping, these are probably the 3 most used chemicals in pyro and are pretty much harmless until mixed. And even mixed its pretty benign. It takes VERY good mixing with a ball mill and non-sparking lead or brass media to make fast black powder. Charcoal brickets suck, try to find lump charcoal, Cowboy Brand mixed hardwoods is a good general brand. Or you can always order pre-milled charcoal. Potassium nitrate WAS a common fertillizer... its becoming rare-ish... You can order it online if need be. Some ceramic raw material stores have it online. SOME stump removers are pure potassium nitrate and can be had a general hardware stores near the pesticides and weed killers... BUT they are $5/lb ish... Where as ordering in a bigger amount from elsewhere will get you a much better price per pound... WHEN YOU ARE SURE YOU CAN CONTINUE DOING PRYO... Old mom and pop style stores with gardening stuff may have it. You can generally buy sulfur from many gardening stores in like 5lb bags for a reasonable cost.

A ball mill, non-sparking media and those 3 chemicals should generally be your first purchases. You should probably start with simple smoke devices, rockets, and fountains.

Why do I also make such long posts... god damn...

This should be a sticky so all the newcomers can read this instead of making a new thread every fucking time.

This should be a sticky so all the newcomers can read this instead of making a new thread every fucking time.

By can, you mean could?

this is a very tricky thing to discuss as each situation is diffrent and each city / household is diffrent one chemical you find in one store or one persons house may differ from the next...

good starting grounds for pyrotechnics are generally things like low order explosives such as smoke mix and black powder.... maybe even small amounts of flash powder...

when order chemcials and executing projects keeping parents in mind i would tell them ahead of time rather then after .... this way you do not waste your money ... try and find good examples of videos of the things you want to do and try and educate them before doing it yourself this will help ease there mind a bit and maybe make them look at you in a diffrent light rather then freak out when it arrives at the door and taking it away from you


simple things you can typically find around the house are

Acetone (nail polish remover)
Boric Acid ( most roach killers)
Potassium Nitrate aka KNO3 ( some times in the garge as a stump remover)

Hydrogen Peroxide 3% usally in the medical cabinet

Iso Alchol again usally in the medicine cabinet

some weed killers containt potassium chlorate

some people use potassium permaganite as i beleive to take some minerals out of there water

both sulfuric acid and hydrochloric acid is generally wasy to find sulfuric as a drain opener and hydrochloric as a concrete eacher (thou some drain openers are alkalines like i beleive they use sodium hydroxide)

charcol in the family bbq pit ...

the list goes on and on and on .... just be curious and read labels ... i could probally tell you whats in about 90% of the cleaners and other misc containers in half the stores in my city by now lol i look like a bit of a idiot doing it but .. you learn :)

i have even found nitric some pretty pure nitric acid locally :)

Thanks the replies.

I talked to my dad and hes going to let me make a potassium nitrate and sugar smoke device. I showed him the process and explained it to him. The smoke device has actually been something that i've wanted to do for awhile and it seems that i will actually be getting started - as soon as i find some stump remover, or order it off the internet.

One of the next things I would like to do is make black powder, since I will already have the KN03. Unfortunately my dad isn't too into the whole pyro thing, when i mentioned potassium nitrate to him the first thing he said was "thats the main ingredient in bp." (not in a good way) I think when he was about my age one of his friends burned himself badly doing something similar... So he will take some convincing, but for most other things has been pretty reasonable.

I forgot to mention, I live in a small town, some open space but by no means the country. And all fireworks are illegal were I live, which means nothing too big unless its the fourth. My neighbors are pretty chill though, if i work my way to a fountain they shouldn't have a problem

I'd recommend doing a very small test first with just normal sugar and potassium nitrate mixed by hand. Then another test using the melt mixing. This will help teach you about one of the most important things that effect pyrotechnic reactions. Level of integration/mixing. With just course sugar and KNO3 the crystals are next to each other, but if the crystals were all much smaller the mixing would be better. By molten mixing the crystals are blended much closer than normal hand mixing would likely ever give and the resulting smoke mix will burn faster. Which is not always wanted. You can make some KNO3/sugar rockets actually.

http://www.jamesyawn.com/

Edit: appears his site is temporarily down... book mark the link though and try back ocassionaly. The man has done alot of testing with KNO3/sugar based propellants.

This should be a sticky

This..

This should be a sticky so all the newcomers can read this instead of making a new thread every fucking time.

Yeah a newbie thread would be nice to have. Although mine also talks about how your hobby was looked at by your parent or anyone else with some control in your life.

Yeah a newbie thread would be nice to have. Although mine also talks about how your hobby was looked at by your parent or anyone else with some control in your life.

wait ... you're serious?

Not Alice Cooper "I am serious", but but seriously for real?
If so: *facepalm*

i used to throw bags of flash powder out the window of a 6th store apartment in the middle of flushing.

can anyone tell me what powders are in the loud finale shells at the end of every grucci show thanks alot

usally flash powder is used for reports some times a whistle mix but it depends i have not seen the reports perhaps if you coulf find a video and a time i could give you a good reply

also the the orginal poster.. i greatly agree with bob on the smoke mix thing were trying just a dry mix versus a melted mix .. also if you have done much research you of course know to use a hot plate and do it outside preferably in a cast iron pan ..

also i can not stress this enough but cover up .. no matter how hot it is outside.. thick clothing will some what protect you from accidental ignition should it happen .. and trust me when i say it happens to even some of the best of us .. as who ever it was who torched there kitchen somthing bad


it costs a bit mroe but people seriously underestimate the power of smoke mix ... it can and will flash in your face and toss molten burning smoke mix every were and it can and will horribly burn you and the worse part is that lovly know in your burns hurts more then the burn usally .. same with the washing process lol

when i was younger *much younger* i tried making smoke mix in a beaker and over heated the mix it went from powder to a yellow brown to chunky to a 1/2 second of light smoke which was imediatly removed from heat got up with it made a run for the bathroom made it about 3 feet and boom .. and it wasn't a passive burn but it also was not a BP poof it was just a super fast burn and a poof room filled with smoke shattered glass burnt lino burn holes in the bed and my leg side of face ect ...

so yeah outside lots of safty gear and water lots of water :)

but yeah we all make mistakes im just glad mine were with much less powerful thing because usally you make a mistake in this biz and it can and usally will be your last .. i knew a guy who ball milled BP with Al to try and make a shimer effect anyways apprently what happened is he kept looking inside and mositure kept getting in that it some how ignited either by a reaction between the Al and the KNO3 or just a spark or discharge .. and boom his milling jar went off and the 50 cal lead shot he used acted as a claymore and showered his laundry room in holes he was very lucky he was upstairs

i used to throw bags of flash powder out the window of a 6th store apartment in the middle of flushing.



not every one can be a usless tool

Sounds like a waste of time and money.

I'm new to this too. I was about to post a thread like this. Really, all i'm interested in making is smoke things :confused: Start simple and if I find it interesting enough I'll probably have a hobby.

My questions:

Where did you guys learn chemistry? School, self tacght?

Do I really need anything fancy? Equipment wise?

Thanks

I'm new to this too. I was about to post a thread like this. Really, all i'm interested in making is smoke things :confused: Start simple and if I find it interesting enough I'll probably have a hobby.

My questions:

Where did you guys learn chemistry? School, self tacght?

Do I really need anything fancy? Equipment wise?

Thanks

There are a lot of SM out there, the simplest probably being KNO3 and Sugar, in a 5:5 Ration works well enough I suppose. After that you could do the same mix, except melt them together should have a fairly significant effect.

I generally taught myself, Totse did its part. My advice, start a Notebook thats what I did and it helps you remember and its a source of reference,

As for equipment for starting out you don't really need a whole lot, a gram scale is more then useful. Paper cups, a place to do it at, storage, if you get more advanced then you can look into a Hotplate, Ball mill, and such...

School got me started, after that I learned from a couple of great sites, most of which are gone now :(