Yea, so I've done some reading, and what it looks like is that a DXM extraction is a simple AB. Or, even simpler, as most of the extractions I've read are just B. Now, for most of the frequenters to this forum, an AB is about as simple as it gets, but regrettably, I've never actually done one (and of course I don't intend to *disclaimer*). But, Just for informations sake, I figured I'd best check with the best about some simple details.

So, as far as DXM extractions go, I've seen the base range from store-bought ammonia to the infamous Red Devil Lye (which, if I'm not mistaken is not sold anymore). The NP solvent always seems to be naptha (though it seems like there're better ones to use). Usually the extractions end with the free base, the exception being the Agent Lemon one which leaves it as a solution of the citrate salt.

What I'm wondering is, first, would baking soda work as the base for the first stage of the extraction? Second, is there a problem with salting it into the HCl form? It always comes as the HBr, so I'm wondering whether it is susceptible to damage by HCl. As for why I'd want to salt it, IIRC, salts are less prone to degradation and digest faster (as they are already salted). Finally, is there a problem with using a mixture of hexane and ether (starting fluid...lol) as the NP? It has a boiling point WAY lower than napthas so it seems like it'd be easier to evap.

Anyway, sorry for such basic questions, but better safe than sorry.
Thanks

I'd just go with the sodium hydroxide as a base; not sure if baking soda would work sufficiently. Give it a try. Bottles of DXM containing products are cheap and disposable for experimentation :)

As for the hydrochloride; I wish I could answer this more specifically, but I know that you cannot make a hydrochloride salt from dextromethorphan for some reason or another. I looked into it pretty heavily one time a few years ago and came to the conclusion that you either A: Cannot make it happen or B: It is absolutely worthless in every way. You'd have to look into this further yourself to get the full answer, though. Or, maybe someone here knows why.

Diethyl ether will work perfectly fine, but you speak of low evaporation points. While this is very true, you should remember that when the ether evaporates, it will 'crawl' on the ground, forming virtually its own atmosphere on your floor, which is sensitive to any sort of spark whatsoever. If you are planning on using ether for the point of evaporation without using a proper laboratory setup to vent fumes, then it is highly suggested that you perform this step outdoors where the fumes do not matter.

I'd just go with the sodium hydroxide as a base; not sure if baking soda would work sufficiently. Give it a try. Bottles of DXM containing products are cheap and disposable for experimentation :)
One thing I have going for me was that a while back I posted something about whether MgOH would be a usable base for ABs and many people posted back saying that good ol' bicarb would do the trick just fine. We'll see...
As for the hydrochloride; I wish I could answer this more specifically, but I know that you cannot make a hydrochloride salt from dextromethorphan for some reason or another. I looked into it pretty heavily one time a few years ago and came to the conclusion that you either A: Cannot make it happen or B: It is absolutely worthless in every way. You'd have to look into this further yourself to get the full answer, though. Or, maybe someone here knows why.
If I had to guess, I'd probably say that it doesn't convert to the HCl for some reason. Most extractions leave the finished product in the freebase form, which would then be converted to the HCl in the stomach. If the HCl form was worthless, extracted DXM wouldn't have any (or many) effects. So, now I'm wondering why DXM doesn't convert.
Diethyl ether will work perfectly fine, but you speak of low evaporation points. While this is very true, you should remember that when the ether evaporates, it will 'crawl' on the ground, forming virtually its own atmosphere on your floor, which is sensitive to any sort of spark whatsoever. If you are planning on using ether for the point of evaporation without using a proper laboratory setup to vent fumes, then it is highly suggested that you perform this step outdoors where the fumes do not matter.
My experience with starter fluid in the past has taught me that combustion of said substance is VERY exothermic, (to use the science jargon) as well as prone forming FAE mixtures. A lot of NP solvents are hazardous like that. A valuable warning to those who don't know.

I use hardware store bought xylene for my NP, works like a fucking charm. Likewise, hardware store bought NaOH - I don't know about magnesium hydroxide, but baking soda doesn't work, in my experience at least.

Salting to HCl is fine, I usually get the NP/freebase solution and gas the shit out of it until no more precipitates; then do a post-rxn cleanup on the NP. otherwise, food-grade citric acid powder works well when made into a standardised soln and titrated.

http://tinyurl.com/69hjqp

or just look online as you can buy dxm pretty cheap and pure...

http://tinyurl.com/69hjqp
Thanks. I wonder why, then, if the HCl is ok, that they always use HBr? Why always the HBr? Isn't Br more expensive than Cl? Whatever. At least now I know that the HCl is viable.
or just look online as you can buy dxm pretty cheap and pure...
I looked online and the first few pages of google didn't turn up anything but experience reports on various forums. I'm not doubting that sites are out there, but I always thought that ordering recreational chems off the internet was shady. Plus, I'm only interested in getting a procedure that's OTC and will produce a DXM powder. You know, for informational purposes.
I use hardware store bought xylene for my NP, works like a fucking charm. Likewise, hardware store bought NaOH - I don't know about magnesium hydroxide, but baking soda doesn't work, in my experience at least.

Salting to HCl is fine, I usually get the NP/freebase solution and gas the shit out of it until no more precipitates; then do a post-rxn cleanup on the NP. otherwise, food-grade citric acid powder works well when made into a standardised soln and titrated.
Nice write-up. I think it's exactly what I'm looking for. The NaOH might be a problem. I thought they stopped selling it OTC (without impurities anyway), but I've never really looked hard for it. So, if I understand correctly, you base with the NaOH, mix w/ xylene, drain aqueous, then bubble dry HCl through the xylene to precip the DXM. So just filter and collect? Sounds great. BTW, this isn't something I've looked for either, but where does one acquire food grade citric acid powder? It seems like it would be easier than the HCl gas.

Nice write-up. I think it's exactly what I'm looking for. The NaOH might be a problem. I thought they stopped selling it OTC (without impurities anyway), but I've never really looked hard for it. So, if I understand correctly, you base with the NaOH, mix w/ xylene, drain aqueous, then bubble dry HCl through the xylene do precip the DMX. So just filter and collect? Sounds great. BTW, this isn't something I've looked for either, but where does one acquire food grade citric acid powder? It seems like it would be easier than the HCl gas.

I can still find 98% tech grade NaOH in 500g tubs for $5. Dunno about where you live, though... But yeah, that's pretty much the general theory. You just gotta be careful delaing with lye, corrosiveness aside, in my early early early days i was using a plastic 2L bottle for the workup and the heat of the NaOH dissolving melted the botle, thing fell apart and dumped caustic robitussin on my goddamn legs. Citric acid powder, you should be able to find at your supermarket. Tartaric, too.

Thanks. I wonder why, then, if the HCl is ok, that they always use HBr? Why always the HBr? Isn't Br more expensive than Cl? Whatever. At least now I know that the HCl is viable.




I wonder too...

It's possible it's related purely to formulation or DMPK issues...

Just thought I'd add that I went and took a look through my local HW store and found clean NaOH granules. Labled as "100% household lye" I lol'd at the oxymoron. Anywho, swim'll probably give the bicarb a shot (cheaper, easier to find).

Is there a thread for this already in BLTC (might be wrong)

OMG ! It's the DEXTROVERSE (http://www.dextroverse.org/extractions.html) all over again !

OMG ! It's the DEXTROVERSE (http://www.dextroverse.org/extractions.html) all over again !

hahahahahahah couldn't be said better!

The BLTC thread is just about general use, not extraction. Plus, I was hoping that by bringing it here, I would get better advice. The problem with the dextroverse extraction is it produces some nasty looking liquid as the final product. I was hoping for something in a powder.

The BLTC thread is just about general use, not extraction. Plus, I was hoping that by bringing it here, I would get better advice. The problem with the dextroverse extraction is it produces some nasty looking liquid as the final product. I was hoping for something in a powder.

hcl salt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hcl salt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Awesome.

Something I was wondering about doing all these OTC A/B's which was that OTC A's and B's aren't designed for use in making consumables. ie, there's no such thing as food grade muriatic acid, so how does one know that there aren't any poisonous contaminants in the HCl or Lye (other than the HCl or Lye)?

Awesome.

Something I was wondering about doing all these OTC A/B's which was that OTC A's and B's aren't designed for use in making consumables. ie, there's no such thing as food grade muriatic acid, so how does one know that there aren't any poisonous contaminants in the HCl or Lye (other than the HCl or Lye)?

You have to clean the HCl, NaOH, and the final product. It is possible to get pharmaceutical grade NaOH and HCl though.

You have to clean the HCl, NaOH, and the final product. It is possible to get pharmaceutical grade NaOH and HCl though.

How does one clean OTC HCl or NaOH? If cleaning was not done prior to final product, could it be done just as effectively afterward?

How does one clean OTC HCl or NaOH? If cleaning was not done prior to final product, could it be done just as effectively afterward?

It would really depend on what is in it, but for NaOH you could recrystallize. Not sure how to clean HCl. If you don't clean it before, you might get reduced yields or even some unwanted reactions, but I don't think it's usually needed. AFAIK OTC HCl and NaOH aren't too dirty.

Its nasty as hell to go down this route of thought, but if you consider

a) the quantity of adulterant within NaOH, lets say you know its 99%, horribly impure, but its a start, that means a whole 1% could be anything you like. Its not going to be something like ricin, or some other nerve reagent capable of killing you within the mg dosages, the main impurities within NaOH are probably going to be heavy metal salts, and things like NaCl and Na2CO3.

"The major impurities include sodium chloride, sodium carbonate, sodium sulfate, sodium chlorate, potassium and heavy metals such as iron and nickel."

b) none of the above purities are really going to kill you, unless you sit there eating grams and grams of them. When you do the maths, say you use a huge 10g of NaOH in an extraction of say 2g of DXM, that's a maximum of 0.1g of impurity present in 2g. When a large amount of the impurities present are things like simple salts, things that we eat every day, I would imagine you could safely guess (don't trust me) that probably only 0.05g of those impurities could ever cause any danger to you.

c) finally, you don't eat all 2g at once I hope, say 500mg is just reaching on a 'strong' dosage according to erowid. That is of course therefore a maximum of 12.5mg of impurity found within your DXM.

d) With a recrystallisation from selective solvents, I bet you could halve the amount of impurity present in your drugs, easily. More like take out 90% of your impurity.

I would therefore claim that generally, if you're intelligent, stay safe, use high quality solvents and reagents, (my NaOH is 99.9%) and just think before you stick it in your mouth, I think you're gonna be safe. Unless you're trying to manufacture a 1000mg dosage every day for the rest of your life, remember heavy metal salts are accumulative poisons.

Either way, a few simple experiments are going to be no worse than spending a day in a large, exhaust fume filled city, or 20 minutes in a petrol station...

Sauce for claims:

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/sodium_hydroxide/basic_sod.html
http://www.zhcig.com/Default.aspx?tabid=31

Thanks. I don't have much experience with Rxtalization but it's something I should definitely know how to do. I'll give it a shot.

Thanks. I don't have much experience with Rxtalization but it's something I should definitely know how to do. I'll give it a shot.

Eeeee... You don't have much experience dissolving something and evaporating a liquid ? And you want to try an extraction ?

Someone point me the nearest glitch in the matrix please.

Eeeee... You don't have much experience dissolving something and evaporating a liquid ? And you want to try an extraction ?

Someone point me the nearest glitch in the matrix please.

I can only agree, its not hard ;) If you think your going to mess that up then reconsider doing A/B extraction and what not :(

I can only agree, its not hard ;) If you think your going to mess that up then reconsider doing A/B extraction and what not :(

In terms if O-chem and whatnot, I've done a lot of reading . Unfortunately, my experience is essentially zilch. The only thing (in terms of lab procedures) I've ever done was set up a ghetto still with rubber tubing and a Liebig condenser. Seriously, I've never extracted anything (with the exception of the still) or run any reaction of any kind. So, I'm just a little timid for lack of spoonfeeding.

So, I'm just a little timid for lack of spoonfeeding.

Fuckin' hell, nigga.

As we say around these parts, "worst you can do is blow yourself up."

Unless you're a moron, this is a very positive attitude to have about the world around you. 'n while most of us have blown ourselves up (technically, usually it's just a really big fireball), that's sort of hard to do during a recrystallziation.

Unless it's evaporative recrystallization with diethylether. 'n that's just part of the fun...

Unless it's evaporative recrystallization with diethylether. 'n that's just part of the fun...

I did this once...

Fucking stupid... Was having a bad couple of days and wasn't really thinking about what I was doing - flask of ether on the hotplate, turned around for five seconds to do something, turned back around to a rather large fireball... Luckily it was fine, I put my gloves on and just covered the neck of the flask until it was cool enough to not autoignite at the first whiff of oxygen...

Doh !

Leave the guy be.

All he needs to do is read up on bps and solubility (lol).


After that, I bet you could do it right in the 2nd trial.