do you believe in the usual "good = heaven, bad = hell" or something different? just for the sake of making my life a little simpler, I believe the above, but I've thought about other ways.

like what if a guy is a bastard all his life, then meets up with some lonely person and the bastard is the only guys friend he has ever had (family abandons him/orphan/whatever) until he dies. if the lonely guy was good all his life and he gets to heaven, does he get deprived of the only friend he ever had just because the bastard was an ass until he met him? what about if a person is sinful but gets killed before they're able to be forgiven/can't be forgiven because they don't like anywhere near a church/priest.

I've also heard that if you pray for someone after they die they'll go to purgatory instead of hell to pay off their mortal sins until they get to heaven. how long would this effect last and who would determine it? what if some nazi prayed for hitler and instead of burning he's only got until judgement day until he gets to heaven. would praying for somebody who died centuries ago work?

thoughts?

inb4atheist trolls

I've also heard that if you pray for someone after they die they'll go to purgatory instead of hell to pay off their mortal sins until they get to heaven. how long would this effect last and who would determine it? what if someone prayed for hitler and instead of burning he's only got until judgement day until he gets to heaven.


This works.

do you believe in the usual "good = heaven, bad = hell" or something different? just for the sake of making my life a little simpler, I believe the above, but I've thought about other ways.

like what if a guy is a bastard all his life, then meets up with some lonely person and the bastard is the only guys friend he has ever had (family abandons him/orphan/whatever) until he dies. if the lonely guy was good all his life and he gets to heaven, does he get deprived of the only friend he ever had just because the bastard was an ass until he met him? what about if a person is sinful but gets murders before they're able to repent?

I've also heard that if you pray for someone after they die they'll go to purgatory instead of hell to pay off their mortal sins until they get to heaven. how long would this effect last and who would determine it? what if someone prayed for hitler and instead of burning he's only got until judgement day until he gets to heaven.

thoughts?

inb4atheist trolls

Heaven may be the physical manifestation of everybody acting as depicted in the bible (abiding by commandments and shit). Hell, the other way around.



I'M HIGH AS FUCK

I dunno about Heaven, but I always thought Hell was less of a fire/brimstone place and more of a concrete kinda maze thing where no one else is and you have to live out the rest of your afterlife there.

I've also heard that if you pray for someone after they die they'll go to purgatory instead of hell to pay off their mortal sins until they get to heaven. how long would this effect last and who would determine it? what if some nazi prayed for hitler and instead of burning he's only got until judgement day until he gets to heaven. would praying for somebody who died centuries ago work?

thoughts?

inb4atheist trolls


I thought purgatory was made up by the church in order to assuage everybody's worries about not being pure enough to enter heaven?

Totse's non existent history majors or those who remember World History can chime in and prove me wrong.

I thought purgatory was made up by the church in order to assuage everybody's worries about not being pure enough to enter heaven?

Totse's non existent history majors or those who remember World History can chime in and prove me wrong.

not sure, might go look that up sometime.

i'm an atheist, i don't believe in heaven or hell, i believe when we die, our memory simply stops, we are in nothingness for the rest of eternity.

http://www.yourpostcardsite.com/images/2323/imagination_border1.jpg

I think you should huff some raid and then tell us what you find.

Hell and Heaven are a complicated system of levers and pulleys.

mgcbtsoyg.

I dont understand why we would be punnished or praised depending on how we were "left to grow up", when it should be gods responsibilty to make us good in the first place.

First you need to understand that heaven and hell as described in the Bible are just a few of the many mtyhs therein. There are no such places.

We create our own reality, and create our own heavens and hells on earth by our thoughts, words, and deeds. Carrying a grudge or resentment, for instance, is a dandy way to put yourself in hell.

There is a very real hell if you don't create the Resurrection body but it is absolutely nothing like what you'd expect.

I dont understand why we would be punnished or praised depending on how we were "left to grow up", when it should be gods responsibilty to make us good in the first place.

Agreed, I think that people are just a reflection of the environment that they were raised in. For a God that claims that He is omniscient, it sure does seem harsh and illogical for Him create a place to punish His creations for all of eternity after having already punished them in life.

If u believe that Christ died for your sins = heaven

If u don't believe that Christ died for your sins = Hell

i always thought that eternity of anything but nothing would be torture. I can not imagine being aware for eternity, heaven would become hell after a grahams number of years.

i always thought that eternity of anything but nothing would be torture. I can not imagine being aware for eternity, heaven would become hell after a grahams number of years.

you do bring up a good point. unless you can do crazy shit in heaven like the laws of physics don't apply and you can do whatever you wanted within bounderies of what isn't sin, idk.

you do bring up a good point. unless you can do crazy shit in heaven like the laws of physics don't apply and you can do whatever you wanted within bounderies of what isn't sin, idk.

Well, after killing your 2011 person in gta3 it gets kinda boring, but yeah thats btp.

People only stay in heaven until the return of Jesus to the earth where he will make a new, perfect earth for everyone. Peace on earth if you will.

Well, after killing your 2011 person in gta3 it gets kinda boring, but yeah thats btp.

People only stay in heaven until the return of Jesus to the earth where he will make a new, perfect earth for everyone. Peace on earth if you will.

it doesn't matter where you are or how perfect it is, being AWARE for eternity would become torture. It's like being able to stay awake forever and never get tired.

I was reading this intriguing book (http://sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta06.htm) today (referenced in the Pharmacratic Inquisition) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4555365073003895154) thnx Obbe :)


"The gloom and depression of the Lesser Mysteries represented the agony of the spiritual soul unable to express itself because it has accepted the limitations and illusions of the human environment. The crux of the Eleusinian argument was that man is neither better nor wiser after death than during life. If he does not rise above ignorance during his sojourn here, man goes at death into eternity to wander about forever, making the same mistakes which he made here. If he does not outgrow the desire for material possessions here, he will carry it with him into the invisible world, where, because he can never gratify the desire, he will continue in endless agony. Dante's Inferno is symbolically descriptive of the sufferings of those who never freed their spiritual natures from the cravings, habits, viewpoints, and limitations of their Plutonic personalities. Those who made no endeavor to improve themselves (whose souls have slept) during their physical lives, passed at death into Hades, where, lying in rows, they slept through all eternity as they had slept through life."

I was reading this intriguing book (http://sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta06.htm) today (referenced in the Pharmacratic Inquisition) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4555365073003895154) thnx Obbe :)


"The gloom and depression of the Lesser Mysteries represented the agony of the spiritual soul unable to express itself because it has accepted the limitations and illusions of the human environment. The crux of the Eleusinian argument was that man is neither better nor wiser after death than during life. If he does not rise above ignorance during his sojourn here, man goes at death into eternity to wander about forever, making the same mistakes which he made here. If he does not outgrow the desire for material possessions here, he will carry it with him into the invisible world, where, because he can never gratify the desire, he will continue in endless agony. Dante's Inferno is symbolically descriptive of the sufferings of those who never freed their spiritual natures from the cravings, habits, viewpoints, and limitations of their Plutonic personalities. Those who made no endeavor to improve themselves (whose souls have slept) during their physical lives, passed at death into Hades, where, lying in rows, they slept through all eternity as they had slept through life."

interesting, I like it :D

i never really believed in heaven and hell

i dont believe someone could be judged on being good or bad, if it was we would all be born the same. Some social classes have an advantage over others on being good compared to those who are born with nothing and are forced into an immoral life to support their family

if the afterlife is judged on one being good or bad, then the whole system is biased, fuck off!;)

if the afterlife is judged on one being good or bad, then the whole system is biased, fuck off!;)

It's about transcending both

Heaven and Hell work the same way my super secret army base did when I was a child. Any way I wanted it to. Some days I would decide that it primarily trained ninjas, other days it would be a research lab in which a mutant would escape...

-----

The limits of, and how your fantasy worlds exist and work are limited only by your imagination.

Heaven and Hell will be considered fiction and fantasylands until such a time evidence can prove its existence.

Neither exist

Heaven = Happiness, joy, clarity, beauty etc
Hell = Discomfort, suffering, confusion, anxiety, etc

We experience degrees of this in life already. They are not places, they are states of being.
Life here right now can be heaven or hell or anywhere in between. You can move closer towards either extremity by appropriate action and thought. Countless teachings from Jesus, buddha, self help books about the subconscious mind, spirituality etc help you to adopt areas of thought that give you a more heavenly experience. See them as new age/religious bullshit, or see them as guides to a better state of being. It's up to you.

Heaven = Happiness, joy, clarity, beauty etc
Hell = Discomfort, suffering, confusion, anxiety, etc

Let me post something that is equally valid...

Heaven = Stripper factory and a wad of endless ones.
Hell = An eternity watching re-runs of who's the boss.

My heaven and hell are every bit as valid as anyone else's. Unless one of you have evidence that would indicate your heaven or hell's operations are more valid than mine...

----

Our imagination can take us anywhere...

^ You talk like you disagree with me but I can't see exactly where your post contradicts mine.

^ You talk like you disagree with me but I can't see exactly where your post contradicts mine.

How about this...

Heaven is rotting in the ground, ceasing to be, feeling nothing.
Hell is rotting in the ground, still existing, feeling everything.

How about this...

Heaven is rotting in the ground, ceasing to be, feeling nothing.
Hell is rotting in the ground, still existing, feeling everything.

You seem to be confusing the body with the Essential Self, or soul. The body exists only that the soul may manifest itself on the material plane.

When the soul has no further use for the body, it merges with Spirit and what happens to the body then is irrelevant.

When the soul has no further use for the body, it merges with Spirit and what happens to the body then is irrelevant.

Prove it.

Prove the soul leaves the meat car upon death (you will need to prove the soul first, good luck)

I mean if you are going to claim what I imagined Heaven and Hell to be incorrect, or that I am confused upon some aspect of it (such as souls leaving meat cars when the meat car dies), then I will require some sort of proof assuring me that your concepts are more valid than mine own before I will cast them aside.

Nothing?

GREAT......b/c my point was that Heaven and Hell are whatever a human wants to imagine them to be......talking to other people to define imaginary places only leads to better fiction, not any sort of truth whatsoever.

heaven and hell arent literal places, they are the symbolic representation of good (heaven) and hell (bad) just like the word god (good) and devil (bad) arent people.

i honestly think its more like intention. people are too stupid to separate them

i think its just like an endless dream. not a lucid one though. If you do something bad you probably have a bad dream about it later. i think this applys to your after life too. its best to live to the maxx because your real life would be cool and your afterlife would be an extension of it

I will say again for the newcomers....

Heaven and Hell work the same way never-never land, candyland, and Oz do.

They work however the authors imagine they work. Now they can work however you imagine them to. Everyone gets a trophy.

Prove it.

.

Well, there you go again. (heavy sigh)

As has been pointed out many times, what one person experiences cannot be "proven" to another who does not choose to accept it.

But just for the sake of discussion, what sort of proof would you require? Esoteric mathematics? A video?

You obviously do not accept what is considered the most convincing evidence in any court of law--eyewitness testimony.

Well, there you go again. (heavy sigh)

As has been pointed out many times, what one person experiences cannot be "proven" to another who does not choose to accept it.

But just for the sake of discussion, what sort of proof would you require? Esoteric mathematics? A video?

You obviously do not accept what is considered the most convincing evidence in any court of law--eyewitness testimony.

Video isn't a bad idea. If you could.
But once you do catch one on tape everyone will say its fake.
So all you can do is enjoy the fact that you're right and other people aren't.

You go to heaven If you repent your sins ,claim Jesus is savior and follow his doctrine. You must keep doing this for the rest of your life , just not one time and live worldly and expect to be saved. If you fail to this , your not saved and will go to hell.

Thats it.

Kind of intense and its hard to swallow for most people.

Acceptance of Jesus as the savior of the world. That he died for our sins and that he is the son of god = teh heavenz

Not accepting Jesus [whether living a fairly moral 'good' life or not] = teh hellz

And that's that.. :)