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Vanhalla
2008-08-10, 21:11
There is no definition for God




Only for what God is not, for if one is to define something they must mark it off from other objects.

Is the transcendent Absolute even conceivable in the manner that one can speak of the “concept” there of? If as Shankara says, the Absolute is “That from which words fall back,” that which ignorance (avidya) alone would attempt to define, then what function would serve the variety of names the Absolute refers to?

The Absolute is inexplicable through the viewpoint of ignorance and through the attribution of “name and form” (nama-rupa). Nama-rupa is the same as the conception of a snake in place of a rope. Both are destroyed when knowledge dawns. “Hence the Absolute cannot be designated by any name, nor can it assume any form.”

How then can intrinsic knowledge of the Absolute be acquired?
Solely from the paramarthika perspective, the view point from the Absolute itself.
The relative viewpoint, vyavaharika perspective of the Absolute can only be viewed under the conditions of name and form. This distinction is very important.

The Absolute Self is to deny that the body or any other empirically knowable factor is the self and to designate what is left as real, even though it cannot be expressed in words.

Thus we see the apophatic nature of any and all designations and definitions concerning the Absolute.

If we are to define the Absolute as Reality, Knowledge, Infinity; each element negates the non-transcendent dimensions that are conceivable in one or both of the other elements.
Reality means that its being never fails, in contrast to the forms of things which being modifications are existent at one time, only to “fail” at some other time. This could imply that the Absolute is a non-conscious material cause, the term knowledge cancels any such false notion. But knowledge can be mistaken for an empirical attribute of the intellect, it too needs to be conditioned by the term infinity, as it negates any possibility of bifurcation into subject and object which is a necessary condition for empirical knowledge. Infinity is said to “characterize the Absolute by negating finitude,” whereas “the terms ‘Reality’ and ‘Knowledge’ characterize the Absolute by investing it with their own positive meanings”, which must be understood from an apophatic viewpoint.

A fool was told he was not a man, confused he asked someone, “What am I?”
The person showed the fool the classes of different beings from minerals to plants and beyond explaining that he is none of them, “So you are not anything that is not a man.”
As is the indirect manner of indicating the nature of the Absolute.

Communicable meaning is restricted within the following categories:
Genus
Action
Quality
Relation
Since the Absolute transcends these categories—it does not belong to any genus, performs no action, has no quality, and enters into no relation with “another” apart from itself—it “cannot be expressed by any word”

Because the Absolute is only indirectly designated by terms that themselves must be negated, it can take on other “definitions”.
Sat-Chit-Ananda, or “Being-Consciousness-Bliss”

Sat – Being/Reality refers to that which is not non-being or not nothingness on the one hand. On the other hand it designates transcendent Being, “that which is” as opposed to “things that are.”

Chit – Consciousness refers to That which is not non-conscious on the one hand, and on the other it designates transcendent Consciousness as opposed to contents or objects of consciousness.

Ananda – That which is not susceptible to suffering or deprivation on the one hand. On the other it designates transcendent Bliss or Bliss as such, as opposed to such and such an experience of bliss. To Bliss we cannot not be, as opposed to blissful experiences that is contingent on worldly circumstances.

In the application of the double negation, the first negates the direct opposite of the term, indicating in a direct manner intrinsic nature or quality intended by it. The second denies any common standard with what appears from nama-rupa to be similar to that quality, indicating indirectly the transcendent degree to the quality here in question.

The first negation directs awareness towards these three internal “modes” of the Absolute, whilst the second negation eliminates any traces of relativity that may appear to pertain to these modes when conceived on the plane of differentiated existence.

While the relative subject has the property of empirical awareness, the Absolute Subject is at once transcendent Being-Consciousness-Bliss, in absolute non-differentiation, indivisibility, and non-duality.

To say that the Absolute is Being-Consciousness-Bliss gives some idea of the nature of the Absolute even while indicating the incommensurability between that idea and the reality alluded to.

Rizzo in a box
2008-08-10, 21:13
"Be silent and know that I am God"

you can only know God when you have silenced yr internal dialog because God is Being itself

thusly, yes, there can be no definition for God, only direct knowledge and a becoming of the Being/ the Being of the becoming

EpicurusGeorge
2008-08-11, 00:07
"Be silent and know that I am God"

you can only know God when you have silenced yr internal dialog because God is Being itself

thusly, yes, there can be no definition for God, only direct knowledge and a becoming of the Being/ the Being of the becoming

That's a very interesting thought and it makes sence. My question is, what is the purpose of seeking God? Will it give you a greater sence of awarness? Will God give you supernatural powers like Jesus? Maybe you'll just get the satasfaction of knowing such an interesting character. I honestly don't know enough to say whether or not there is a God, but I'm curious to see what you think the benift to knowing God is.

Rizzo in a box
2008-08-11, 02:26
That's a very interesting thought and it makes sence. My question is, what is the purpose of seeking God? Will it give you a greater sence of awarness? Will God give you supernatural powers like Jesus? Maybe you'll just get the satasfaction of knowing such an interesting character. I honestly don't know enough to say whether or not there is a God, but I'm curious to see what you think the benift to knowing God is.

The Being IS awareness. It IS power. It is infinite, unending bliss. It's pure love. It's the root of anything you've ever wanted.

honkymahfah
2008-08-11, 06:43
MY TURN!

Knowing god is not like knowing a friend, but like hiding a truth. Once one has experienced oneness, they must hide that truth from all others or else they will find that THEIR truth has been tampered and ruined, and their personal oneness is ruined, taking away any chance of living forever in their personal Krzrtinya (Heaven).

BrokeProphet
2008-08-11, 22:10
There is no definition for God




Only for what God is not, for if one is to define something they must mark it off from other objects.

I'll play along...let's see what god is not...

First I would like to share the definition of a word:

Real:
being or occurring in fact or actuality; having verified existence; not illusory
capable of being treated as fact; "tangible evidence";

God is CLEARLY not real...

I now see no point in defining what God is or is not any further...

Rust
2008-08-12, 00:11
If: U ≡ A U B and A ∩ B ≡ Ø
Then:
A ≡ U \ B

swissblade
2008-08-12, 19:58
GOD, LIVING THINGS and NON LIVING THINGS has no beginning and no end.


- hinduism

villageillness
2008-08-12, 20:22
Well according to Islam, God describes himself with 99 names. Here they are. Have fun with them.

Ar-Rahman 1 The All-Compassionate
Ar-Rahim 2 The All-Merciful
Al-Malik 3 The Absolute Ruler
Al-Quddus 4 The Pure One
As-Salam 5 The Source of Peace
Al-Mu'min 6 The Inspirer of Faith
Al-Muhaymin 7 The Guardian
Al-'Aziz 8 The Victorious
Al-Jabbar 9 The Compeller
Al-Mutakabbir 10 The Greatest
Al-Khaliq 11 The Creator
Al-Bari' 12 The Maker of Order
Al-Musawwir 13 The Shaper of Beauty
Al-Ghaffar 14 The Forgiving
Al-Qahhar 15 The Subduer
Al-Wahhab 16 The Giver of All
Ar-Razzaq 17 The Sustainer
Al-Fattah 18 The Opener
Al-'Alim 19 The Knower of All
Al-Qabid 20 The Constrictor
Al-Basit 21 The Reliever
Al-Khafid 22 The Abaser
Ar-Rafi' 23 The Exalter
Al-Mu'izz 24 The Bestower of Honors
Al-Mudhill 25 The Humiliator
As-Sami 26 The Hearer of All
Al-Basir 27 The Seer of All
Al-Hakam 28 The Judge
Al-'Adl 29 The Just
Al-Latif 30 The Subtle One
Al-Khabir 31 The All-Aware
Al-Halim 32 The Forebearing
Al-'Azim 33 The Magnificent
Al-Ghafur 34 The Forgiver and Hider of Faults
Ash-Shakur 35 The Rewarder of Thankfulness
Al-'Ali 36 The Highest
Al-Kabir 37 The Greatest
Al-Hafiz 38 The Preserver
Al-Muqit 39 The Nourisher
Al-Hasib 40 The Accounter
Al-Jalil 41 The Mighty
Al-Karim 42 The Generous
Ar-Raqib 43 The Watchful One
Al-Mujib 44 The Responder to Prayer
Al-Wasi' 45 The All-Comprehending
Al-Hakim 46 The Perfectly Wise
Al-Wadud 47 The Loving One
Al-Majíd 48 The Majestic One
Al-Ba'ith 49 The Resurrector
Ash-Shahid 50 The Witness
Al-h Haqq 51 The Truth
Al-Wakil 52 The Trustee
Al-Qawi 53 The Possessor of All Strength
Al-Matin 54 The Forceful One
Al-Wáli 55 The Governor
Al-Hamid 56 The Praised One
Al-Muhsi 57 The Appraiser
Al-Mubdi 58 The Originator
Al-Mu'id 59 The Restorer
Al-Muhyi 60 The Giver of Life
Al-Mumit 61 The Taker of Life
Al-Hayy 62 The Ever Living One
Al-Qayyum 63 The Self-Existing One
Al-Wajid 64 The Finder
Al-Májid 65 The Glorious
Al-Wahid 66 The Only One
Al-Ahad 67 The One
As-Samad 68 The Satisfier of All Needs
Al-Qadir 69 The All Powerful
Al-Muqtadir 70 The Creator of All Power
Al-Muqaddim 71 The Expediter
Al-Mu'akhkhir 72 The Delayer
Al-Awwal 73 The First
Al-Akhir 74 The Last
Az-Zahir 75 The Manifest One
Al-Batin 76 The Hidden One
Al-Walí 77 The Protecting Friend
Al-Muta'ali 78 The Supreme One
Al-Barr 79 The Doer of Good
At-Tawwib 80 The Guide to Repentance
Al-Muntaqim 81 The Avenger
Al-Afu 82 The Forgiver
Ar-Ra'uf 83 The Clement
Malik al-Mulk 84 The Owner of All
Wal-Ikram 85 The Lord of Majesty and Bounty
Al-Muqsit 86 The Equitable One
Al-Jami 87 The Gatherer
Al-Ghani 88 The Rich One
Al-Mughni 89 The Enricher
Al-Mani' 90 The Preventer of Harm
Ad-Darr 91 The Creator of The Harmful
An-Nafi 92 The Creator of Good
An-Nur 93 The Light
Al-Hadi 94 The Guide
Al-Badi 95 The Originator
Al-Baqi 96 The Everlasting One
Al-Warith 97 The Inheritor of All
Ar-Rashid 98 The Righteous Teacher
As-Sabur 99 The Patient One

Hiatus227
2008-08-15, 19:49
hmmm, as far as i know, in order to define something you have to understand it. How can you understand something like God? You can give him traits and characteristics similar to a man *cough* Jesus *cough*, but there is no definition.

Ha, if God was that easily defined, people would have a lot easier time believing in him.

redzed
2008-08-18, 00:49
hmmm, as far as i know, in order to define something you have to understand it. How can you understand something like God? You can give him traits and characteristics similar to a man *cough* Jesus *cough*, but there is no definition.


Makes sense ^
John4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who would worship him must worship in spirit and in truth". Spirit is defined by the dictionary as incorporeal being, that is formless. Any attempt at definition must include attempts to give a form to God/Spirit/Formless and thus must fail. Does that mean there is no good reason to attempt to do so?
Bhagvan Krishna says to Arjuna(XII:5), "Arduous is the path to the Absolute for embodied beings." What mortal faculty may know the Unknowable, or perceive the Imperceptible? It is less dificult for man to conceive of a personal, immanent God who has dreamed Himselfinto this universe of definite forms. The worship of God as personal(in one of His many aspects, or as represented by His divine emissaries such as Krishna or Christ who instruct and intercede on behalf of erring humanity) is easy and beneficial, and even necessary for the beginner. The Lord is interested in the devotee's genuine devotion to Him, no matter what true concept formulates the worship. The devotee who realises the personal god in a form will eventually realise Him also as the Omnipresent Formless Infinite. Paramhansa Yogananda