I use to be a hard assed atheist. I would argue anyone who believed, but have since stopped. The reason is that while I'm a smart man, capable of seeing reality truthfully, most people can't handle it, and it would be dangerous and irresponsible to convert people like I was. I realized that converting people wasn't just a matter of disproving god and removing the belief, which is easy, but re-establishing a new reality for that individual, which takes a lot of time and effort. People need a reality, false or not, to use as a foundation to make decisions and keep their sanity. Another thing that us atheists must accept is that not all people should be converted. Some people just don't have the mindset to develop and maintain a system of morals based on logic. If we remove God and religion from their lives, they'll implode and become a serious burden on society. I find for the larger chunk of the masses, religion should be maintained within our society. Even though it's ridiculous to us as atheists, the moral code and brainwashing is what makes these people contributors to society, keeps the peace, and is unparalleled by what we offer. The threat of hell, reward of heaven, and fear of God keeps these people in line, and benefits us dearly. Most of what comes with religion is pretty tolerable. They just assume we're dumb, and just try and help us, lol. The laws that come from religious doctrine are also pretty damn tolerable, and most would be mirrored by an atheistic logic based system. Religion also serves a purpose of uniting a population. This makes them easily manipulated to fulfill the needs of our countries. It also serves to give people a crutch during hardships. Whether we like it or not, faith keeps people together during the bad times, as they believe it's God's plan. The reality is that this planet is extremely volatile and chaotic all the time. Even right now we're teetering on ww3 with Russia re-occupying satellite countries, and US led NATO expanding missile defense in eastern Europe. Faith gives these people strength and hold our countries together during hardships, global, local, and within a family.

When it comes down to it, we should use the same logic that has formed our atheistic beliefs to realize that religion plays a necessary role in our society, and we should only help those who are ready and looking to break away from the flock to do so. Religion isn't a threat to us anyways, and atheists have existed for as long as religion, and are usually the people that control them. The churches view might have some lag to what we believe now, but it is dynamic, and will change over time to suite the society, mainly us. Different sects of religion have been created to offer a church to most mind sets. Many churches even accept homosexuality, which was a progression within my own lifetime of 24 years. Really, we can mold the church to what we want anyways, so why fight it? Lets just help those who are ready to rise above it, and leave those who aren't ready alone, and simply control the system they buy into.

Religion isn't a threat to us anyways...

Many people fear the radical islam that has verbally threatened us with violence.

Domestic religions constantly push the envelope on how much they can influence out children in public schools...on how much they can influence out government.

Our current president said he is doing God's work where Iraq is concerned.

Then you have the real bat shit crazy religions like mormons, and the sect who likes to fuck children. Or the Catholics who like to fuck our children. Or scientologist, who have had some success in suppressing free expression through lawsuits on all who disagree.

Indeed cults of all kind over the years have produced some of the most disturbing things Heaven's Gate, the People's Temple, the Family, Branch Dividians etc.

All of this exists while there exist people who rail against it and fight it back. What if the few who hold back the tide of religious nonsense felt the way you do? Felt that it isn't a threat to us?

When your 7 year old came home from public school crying his eyes out and really upset b/c he learned his atheist father wasn't going to be chillin with him in heaven after death, you might reconsider.

Wow I wish more atheist would think like you. There really is no point in arguing on who's right and who's wrong. Almost all normal Christians today act like normal Atheist today anyways. Life would be so much easier if we just learn to stop arguing about something we don't really know for sure. By the way Most Christians don't think atheist are dumb and accept them. The pastors in my city go around to different belief leaders (atheist, Islam, Jewish, ect.) and talk about their belief in a civil manner. Never a argument.

Almost all normal Christians today act like normal Atheist today anyways.

How????

Wow, that sounds like radical shit to me.

You are not distinguishing between agnosticism and a particular religion. Agnostics believe vaguely in a "higher power," while religious folk actually have a doctrine in mind, which is what I think you are talking about when you say "leave those who aren't ready alone, and simply control the system they buy into it."

Also, you need to realize that a belief in God (whether religious or agnostic) is not a sign of emotional weakness to a hard reality or a lack of logical faculty in the person necessarily. A lot of people believe because they were raised that way, and it is simply incorporated in their thinking, or that they emotionally feel that there must be a God. I agree with you in thinking that's totally wrong, but I wish you'd recognize that many theists are your intellectual and logical superior, and that a different belief concerning God doesn't make you smarter or more rational. In other words, you sound like one smug cocksmoker just because you're an atheist, so make sure you're not being one, please.

I agree, though. I definitely know some people that just couldn't handle atheism, because they are brainwashed (I prefer the term raised, but the effect is basically the same) into a being a Catholic or something else which is probably bullshit. Treating them like cattle, though, just isn't the way to go, unless you're into to manipulating people and viewing the masses as an ignorant piece of shit that's not worth your time or "enlightening" (and that isn't the case anyway), which is a way of thinking I try to avoid. I think that adopting this holier-than-thou (not literally, of course) attitude towards believers isn't gonna get you anywhere. Distinguish the dumb sheep acting motherfuckers from the critical thinkers, please.

Text wall galore. Please use paragraph form.

BrokeProphet-
Radical islam is a very small minority of islamic people. They get a lot of attention by our media, but their actions have been ineffective and sparse. It just seems like they do a lot because it gets a lot of media attention. We really do treat most of the world like shit, so their anger is warranted. Sure, I agree that they do blame us collectively for the shit our countries have done, but we have the power to stop the cycle by realizing that the violence from that region by a few, isn't an accurate representation of that region. Despite a bunch of idiots thinking the Islam world hates us, Islam hasn't really affected us at all. Even after 9/11, my life hasn't changed at all. The american populous has supported removing freedoms more than muslims. You're punishing yourselves with the guise that it's the terrorist's fault, when that is bullshit. America is the land of fear mongers.

Your president doesn't believe in God, he's from the same bloodline as me and we don't believe in that shit. We just say we do to pander to the masses. America isn't ready for an atheist president yet, and the God card worked, so he used it. I support the Iraq war as it's a pre-emptive strike in the region against the former soviet union and china. Don't want to side track this thread, so I'll leave it at that.

As for the bat shit relgions. They are such a small minority in our populous and they've have little affect on our lives. What law can you think of proposed by mormans that has adversely affected you? As for Catholic priests molesting kids; Seriously, those instances where very isolated considering the thousands of priests throughout the world. Quite honestly, those instances and all instances like that are blown out of proportion. Sucking a dick, or taking a cock in the ass is not the end of the world and wouldn't even affect those children if it wasn't for idiots making a big deal out of it. This doesn't mean I condone it, but society makes the situation worse than the act. More kids are raped every day by their family members every day than preists have ever raped.

As for the cults, seriously, how has the average person's life been changed by them, other than they were mildly entertained for a few minutes during media coverage.

Actually, fighting a religious group only adds fuel to their fire. If you fight them, you are seen as trying to decieve them, therefore you are satanic, which reinforces their beliefs. You win by peacefully coexisting. For me, I'm caring, respectful, have self-control, and I forgive people out of love for humanity and human nature. Basically, I'm a True Christian mimicing the behavior of Jesus himself, yet I do it willingly on my own. Not to be a good person, but because I truly believe it's the right way to. live. The fact that I do this when I have absolutely no motivating factors, I'm not commanded, and there is no penalty or reward, is my attack. How do you argue religion brings peace and morality to an atheist that has a higher code of morals than you?

I'm actually not to worried about my 7 year old coming home in tears thinking I'm going to hell. Since my kids will be educated about religion and atheism, they'll likely not get too upset about it if something was said.

I agree with you CharChar, as many of my friends are Christians, and they were all very surprised I was Atheist. Actually, they thought I was very religious by my actions. They were confused as to how we were the same even though I am technically a heathen.

Defect- I agree that it doesn't mean they are illogical or emotionally weak, however, I see people who are indoctrinated as prisoners of their own mind. They might not be illogical, but their logic is limited. They might not be emotionally weak either, but since they've learned to use God and religion as emotional strength, there is a good chance they will be lost if they abandon it without learning to cope without it. My point was that since it doesn't really harm this group to gradually change their religion in order to adjust to society's progression, why not change it to suite the world better. It's no different than manipulating the masses by censoring television. Manipulation in itself isn't bad, only if it's used for selfish or ill means.

Solarfall is a sick song

I haven't reached that stage of atheism yet. I'm still stuck arguing with people I will never be able to convince and ranting without any sort of achievable objective. It just makes me angrier and angrier, yet I still keep doing it. I like to think that one day I'll learn to just let it go and get on with my life, but for now... RAAAARRRRR!

I'm moving towards the apathetic stage.

If someone asks me, I say atheist. If they say why, I go into it.

I'm humble about it. That way I can feel good when I call out the ultrareligious for being assholes.

Your president doesn't believe in God, he's from the same bloodline as me and we don't believe in that shit. We just say we do to pander to the masses. America isn't ready for an atheist president yet, and the God card worked, so he used it.



... lol!

I use to be a hard assed atheist. I would argue anyone who believed, but have since stopped. The reason is that while I'm a smart man, capable of seeing reality truthfully, most people can't handle it, and it would be dangerous and irresponsible to convert people like I was. I realized that converting people wasn't just a matter of disproving god and removing the belief, which is easy, but re-establishing a new reality for that individual, which takes a lot of time and effort. People need a reality, false or not, to use as a foundation to make decisions and keep their sanity. Another thing that us atheists must accept is that not all people should be converted. Some people just don't have the mindset to develop and maintain a system of morals based on logic. If we remove God and religion from their lives, they'll implode and become a serious burden on society. I find for the larger chunk of the masses, religion should be maintained within our society. Even though it's ridiculous to us as atheists, the moral code and brainwashing is what makes these people contributors to society, keeps the peace, and is unparalleled by what we offer. The threat of hell, reward of heaven, and fear of God keeps these people in line, and benefits us dearly. Most of what comes with religion is pretty tolerable. They just assume we're dumb, and just try and help us, lol. The laws that come from religious doctrine are also pretty damn tolerable, and most would be mirrored by an atheistic logic based system. Religion also serves a purpose of uniting a population. This makes them easily manipulated to fulfill the needs of our countries. It also serves to give people a crutch during hardships. Whether we like it or not, faith keeps people together during the bad times, as they believe it's God's plan. The reality is that this planet is extremely volatile and chaotic all the time. Even right now we're teetering on ww3 with Russia re-occupying satellite countries, and US led NATO expanding missile defense in eastern Europe. Faith gives these people strength and hold our countries together during hardships, global, local, and within a family.

When it comes down to it, we should use the same logic that has formed our atheistic beliefs to realize that religion plays a necessary role in our society, and we should only help those who are ready and looking to break away from the flock to do so. Religion isn't a threat to us anyways, and atheists have existed for as long as religion, and are usually the people that control them. The churches view might have some lag to what we believe now, but it is dynamic, and will change over time to suite the society, mainly us. Different sects of religion have been created to offer a church to most mind sets. Many churches even accept homosexuality, which was a progression within my own lifetime of 24 years. Really, we can mold the church to what we want anyways, so why fight it? Lets just help those who are ready to rise above it, and leave those who aren't ready alone, and simply control the system they buy into.

My thoughts exactly..

It keeps the peace, and really it is corrupted but the benefit is a serene society, it is just a price we have to pay..

Some people I think really couldn't handle it, or even comprehend it. It is a lonely feeling at first..

Religion should be something that you do by yourself in a locked closet in the dead of the night with a crucifix.

Wait no I'm thinking of masturbation...

Religion should be something that you do by yourself in a locked closet in the dead of the night with a crucifix.

Wait no I'm thinking of masturbation...

Masterbation is a sin and God sees you doing it and probs gets off to it... Why do you think it rains a lot?

I lol'd

Many people fear the radical islam that has verbally threatened us with violence.

.
.
.
.
.
When your 7 year old came home from public school crying his eyes out and really upset b/c he learned his atheist father wasn't going to be chillin with him in heaven after death, you might reconsider.

but wouldnt those things still happen even without religion. not exactly, but in a similar manner??

.......

None of what you posted means religion is not a threat.

You cant say Bush is of the same bloodline so he really doesn't believe, without some kind of real evidence. Even if you can prove this, it doesn't change the fact the religious fucktards voted him in. What kind of asshole will they vote in just b/c he claims he loves J.C. in the future.

Still a threat.

I actually had a friend who decided to let his child go to Sunday school and make his mind up about religion. He explained atheism and other religions and told his son it was his choice. His son came home crying just as I described.

Clearly a threat to him.

Claiming bat shit crazy religions and cults are a minority may make them less of a threat, but does not mean they are not a threat.

You skipped over the part where I said religions seek to influence government to affect public policy that affects us all.

------

You can make a case of how religion isn't a huge threat (and we could argue back and forth on it), but you are unable to say with absolution (as you did) that it not a threat.