View Full Version : Why do people not care about the war?
hotfoot982
2008-08-18, 22:00
Why is it that it seems people are just happy about the war...almost as if its not effecting them. which it may not be but for some people it is.
so what is wrong with everybody?
i wanna start something new. i know that a lot of people know the truth and are out there protesting. but it feels like there should be so much more.
i dont know if im right but why when Vietnam was going on people actually seemed to care?
id feel stupid almost if i would try to teach people in my school (high school) that this stuff is all messed up and they should be worried.
So whats up with people today?
Any suggestions for getting the word around?
Thanks,
- hotfoot982
DerDrache
2008-08-18, 22:50
...almost as if its not effecting them.
It isn't.
That said, I don't know anyone who's happy about it aside from McCain...
ChickenOfDoom
2008-08-18, 23:21
1. No draft
2. Relatively few American deaths
3. Censorship of the news media; journalists who want to cover the upsetting aspects of the war are denied access, supposedly neutral experts who report on the situation to the main networks are largely handpicked by the administration.
Add all this to the fact that people really don't have much of an emotional reaction to statistics and the Iraq war ends up having just about as little impact on your average person as some deadly natural disaster in Africa. People don't like the war because its pointless and expensive and hurts people in a theoretical sense, but it doesn't really hit home; it doesn't affect people emotionally enough for them to care enough to try to do something.
Honestly though, I have doubts about the actual impact of protest. I went to a protest near the beginning (mostly because my parents dragged me along), but if everyone already knows about how incredibly unpopular the war is and the reasons for it, there's really no point anymore. If you want to actually change peoples minds, I guess you could always spread links to the various articles regarding how sucky the situation there is. In the end, what it comes down to, the only thing that could actually make a difference, is the presidential election, so you might want to just focus on influencing that for the moment. For that, it doesn't matter if people care, it's only necessary that they feel sufficient peer pressure to take an hour out of their day to vote and hold a theoretical support of the candidate opposed to the war. Experiments with anonymous voting have shown that fostering the impression that you're concerned with politics is the only reason most people actually bother to vote in the first place. Which side they support is mostly arbitrary and usually depends on the opinions they hear expressed most often and how they choose to categorize themselves culturally. Arguments either way are usually strongly worded and emotional, serving to make people who already agree with them feel a sense of moral superiority and outrage and those who already disagree to feel indignation and anger.
Basically, everything is stuck in an artificial and shallow balance and people don't care unless its convenient for them to do so. Fortunately for you, opposing the war everyone hates while doing something to be able to say you voted is fairly convenient.
dal7timgar
2008-08-19, 00:24
i dont know if im right but why when Vietnam was going on people actually seemed to care?
It took almost 10 years to stop and was even dumber than this one.
This one is about oil. What was Vietnam about?
I have talked to Vietnam veterans who said they still don't know what it was about. I was in the draft lottery for that nonsense. I lost. No all expenses payed vacation for me. So now our wonderful capitalist economists can't tell us what we have lost on depreciation of automobiles since that war ended. Ain't Capitalism grand?
What are we supposed to do about this one? I voted against nitwit Bush twice. I attack economists on the internet. It seems like pissing in the wind no matter what you do.
DT
It took almost 10 years to stop and was even dumber than this one.
This one is about oil. What was Vietnam about?
I have talked to Vietnam veterans who said they still don't know what it was about. I was in the draft lottery for that nonsense. I lost. No all expenses payed vacation for me. So now our wonderful capitalist economists can't tell us what we have lost on depreciation of automobiles since that war ended. Ain't Capitalism grand?
What are we supposed to do about this one? I voted against nitwit Bush twice. I attack economists on the internet. It seems like pissing in the wind no matter what you do.
DT
i like capitalism.
firekitty751
2008-08-19, 15:36
Because people don't think it's directly affecting them.
It's easy to ignore when they replace the words "human" or "people" with "civilian" or "casualty." In the back of our minds we know that they mean human lives are being taken, on both sides, but when it's phrased in a different way our minds are able to look at it as an objective thing.
Also, who wants to hear about the war when Amy Winehouse is in rehab again??
It isn't.
That said, I don't know anyone who's happy about it aside from McCain...
I think it's fantastic, but what this planet really needs is a third world war.
Star Wars Fan
2008-08-19, 17:33
This one is about oil. What was Vietnam about?
I have talked to Vietnam veterans who said they still don't know what it was about.
the justification was the "domino effect' that if one nation went towards the Soviet side, others would, and so on....
though they ignore the popular will of the nation wanting to become communist....
What are we supposed to do about this one? I voted against nitwit Bush twice. I attack economists on the internet. It seems like pissing in the wind no matter what you do.
join a black bloc/etc group.
Star Wars Fan
2008-08-19, 17:35
I think it's fantastic, but what this planet really needs is a third world war.
vote for McCain then, he has the highest chance of that...
..oh wait, you live in the UK :D
DerDrache
2008-08-19, 17:37
I think it's fantastic, but what this planet really needs is a third world war.
Yeah, but you're also an emo moron.
Deep down, people know they can't do shit about it. Washington has proven more than willing to say "Fuck you, I'll do what I want" to the American people and the whole world, for that matter. Besides, most people are too wrapped up in the drama of their own lives to actively attempt to change anything. Mix in the tiny number of American casualties as compared to this point in Vietnam and you get a war that sucks up resources and gives those in power a ready excuse to push whatever policies they want.
dal7timgar
2008-08-20, 16:32
i like capitalism.
So what is wrong with teaching everyone accounting in this so called capitalism?
When do you ever hear the capitalists or their economists suggest such a thing? LOL
Iraq is good for Haliburton. AMEN!
DT
So what is wrong with teaching everyone accounting in this so called capitalism?
When do you ever hear the capitalists or their economists suggest such a thing? LOL
Iraq is good for Haliburton. AMEN!
DT
well, i know of no reason that being a skilled accountant would be a bad thing, but i don't really think we should all be accountants... :confused:
MR.Kitty55
2008-08-20, 19:00
Vietnam- Directly affect. People died/ kids died
Iraq- Indirect affect. Problems are economic, people blame the economy while overlooking that the underlining cause is massive defense spending b.c. of Iraq.
I really hope they institute a draft. People would start caring immediately.
I really hope they institute a draft. People would start caring immediately.
there'd be a lot of people at the rallies then, huh?
MR.Kitty55
2008-08-21, 04:23
there'd be a lot of people at the rallies then, huh?
hahaah I would totally start throwing Molotov's lol
In all serious though, thats probably why they never will instate a draft. The amount of social upheaval that would come as a result from the building up of angsty, nihilistic teenagers for the past 40 years which, by the way, has had no source of ventilation, would create more of a problem than the war itself, except on our front.
Besides, we're getting along just fine with soldiers, we've lost what? 5-6 thousand? In almost 6 years? Thats not bad at all, compared to Vietnam where there was another 0 on the number casualties.
there'd be a lot of people at the rallies then, huh?
There would be blood in the streets. Hopefully McCain is stupid enough to try it.
Besides, we're getting along just fine with soldiers, we've lost what? 5-6 thousand? In almost 6 years? Thats not bad at all, compared to Vietnam where there was another 0 on the number casualties.
Iraq : $547,161,000,000.
Nam : $735,790.000.000.
Nam is adjusted for inflation (2007 $)
Iraq is (2008 $)
he's right, we lost more soldiers in a matter of a week in the pacific ww2 then during this occupation...
Star Wars Fan
2008-08-21, 06:16
hahaah I would totally start throwing Molotov's lol
molotov everything; they're the poor man's grenade :D
Shit, I'd do the same. At least go to the place of conflict and look, if nothing else..
dal7timgar
2008-08-21, 09:17
well, i know of no reason that being a skilled accountant would be a bad thing, but i don't really think we should all be accountants... :confused:
I didn't say we should all be accountants any more than we should all be professional bicyclists. But why do people think accounting is difficult? What if it is as easy as riding a bicycle? It is 700 years old.
http://www.bsu.edu/news/article/0,1370,-1019-11714,00.html
We are being handed a bunch of BS about how difficult it is, especially with today's computers. Doing all of the idiotic busy work is tedious by hand but that is what computers are for. There is no reason for a person doing his own personal accounting to know the details of corporate accounting like a professional.
But wars cost money and if the government finds it easy to rip off the populous while the corporations can hire professional accountants to help them slip through the loopholes then isn't there a real economic war going on inside the country? The general population gets bled in two ways. Pawns for the rich.
DT
I didn't say we should all be accountants any more than we should all be professional bicyclists. But why do people think accounting is difficult? What if it is as easy as riding a bicycle? It is 700 years old.
http://www.bsu.edu/news/article/0,1370,-1019-11714,00.html
We are being handed a bunch of BS about how difficult it is, especially with today's computers. Doing all of the idiotic busy work is tedious by hand but that is what computers are for. There is no reason for a person doing his own personal accounting to know the details of corporate accounting like a professional.
But wars cost money and if the government finds it easy to rip off the populous while the corporations can hire professional accountants to help them slip through the loopholes then isn't there a real economic war going on inside the country? The general population gets bled in two ways. Pawns for the rich.
DT
uhh... alright. is this how YOU figured out the government sucks?
MR.Kitty55
2008-08-21, 18:43
Iraq : $547,161,000,000.
Nam : $735,790.000.000.
Nam is adjusted for inflation (2007 $)
Iraq is (2008 $)
Are those supposed to be commas???
Why is it that it seems people are just happy about the war...almost as if its not effecting them. which it may not be but for some people it is.
so what is wrong with everybody?
i wanna start something new. i know that a lot of people know the truth and are out there protesting. but it feels like there should be so much more.
i dont know if im right but why when Vietnam was going on people actually seemed to care?
id feel stupid almost if i would try to teach people in my school (high school) that this stuff is all messed up and they should be worried.
So whats up with people today?
Any suggestions for getting the word around?
Thanks,
- hotfoot982
I don't know, something about propagandist media coprates controlling the sheep and letting them forget their true American identities for over a century, but rather let make people's time and enegy go into stupid and unuseful things (except for said corporations, of course)?
Galgamech
2008-08-26, 12:29
It seems like pissing in the wind no matter what you do.
True. What can YOU really do against this sick system?
The answer is; Molotov Everything
Sentinel
2008-08-27, 03:45
Iraq : $547,161,000,000.
Nam : $735,790.000.000.
Nam is adjusted for inflation (2007 $)
Iraq is (2008 $)
Who really cares? I mean, it is obviously a big economic problem, but in the ordinary citizen's life, he rarely encounters more than 3 or 4 zeros. seven zeros or nine zeros, heck make it eleven! We don't really comprehend how much money that ACTUALLY is.
if there was a draft, then yes, there would be blood in the streets. If the Government mandated, say 2 years of military service for all Americans, no one would put up with this shit anymore.
Captain Kaboom
2008-09-01, 12:35
Because people, especially Americans, are apathetic. Why should anyone give a good goddamn about some 18 y/o getting his limbs blown off? He asked for it by signing up...right? Not like it's YOUR child/sibling.
Honestly, there isn't much you can do in high school to confront it. Kids will echo their parents because they know nothing better. What you can do is stay true to your own beliefs. A teacher may one day decide to talk about it and if you feel you can contribute to the discussion, have at it. Just don't look like a hee-hawin' jackass doing it. I wouldn't be the guy that brings it up every 15 seconds.
BrokeProphet
2008-09-05, 00:32
Don't know if this has been suggested yet.....
People don't care about the war, b/c they are not paying for it
I say stop borrowing money from China and put a war tax on people's payroll, and see how quickly people care about the war, and more importantlty us getting out of it.
It should not be so easy for so many to fuck over future generations of Americans with this incresing debt, just so they can feel that we did the right thing where a foreign country is concerned.
Mind control was never as devious or complex as Hollywood would have us believe.
Dark_Magneto
2008-09-05, 00:39
Why is it that it seems people are just happy about the war...almost as if its not effecting them. which it may not be but for some people it is.
http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/.Pictures/oldman.jpg
Savin_Jesus
2008-09-10, 09:53
Because people don't think it's directly affecting them.
It's easy to ignore when they replace the words "human" or "people" with "civilian" or "casualty." In the back of our minds we know that they mean human lives are being taken, on both sides, but when it's phrased in a different way our minds are able to look at it as an objective thing.
Also, who wants to hear about the war when Amy Winehouse is in rehab again??
The war doesn't directly affect anyone, until someone you know dies, or it is brought to the streets of America not with bombs, but with gunfire.
why do we not care about the war? do you think all those billions of dollars would of been used for anything useful? you have that much faith?
the war is a half a world away, fought by people who voluntarily signed up for whatever reasons they may have. we essential won by conventional means. its just the fact that iraq [the area of modern day iraq] has never had to compently govern itself democraticly in its entire history of existance on earth should explain why they're having a little trouble..
if you look at the history of wars, and our production capabilities, we're actually conservatively using resources and manpower in the war. its not like we're pumping out machinery and weapons in record numbers anymore..
a missle costs a million dollars, you use a missle to prevent having to send in ground troops [and to be more steathly for uber pwnage].
heres a better question. why do you care about the war? what are your qualms about war? is it the killing factor? is it the intruding on another nations territory? do you really think that human kind as a whole can live peacefully together in perfect harmony?
i don't CARE about the war; i care about the NATION BUILDING.
war is almost always a good thing for america, these easy wars really work out good for us. but nation building, holy fuck is that stupid. we ought to have simply told saddam that he works for us now, took his oil for free, and left. and then went to iran.
Star Wars Fan
2008-09-11, 06:41
True. What can YOU really do against this sick system?
The answer is; Molotov Everything
If McCain wins or Obama gets assassinated I hope that shit does happen.
i don't CARE about the war; i care about the NATION BUILDING.
war is almost always a good thing for america, these easy wars really work out good for us. but nation building, holy fuck is that stupid. we ought to have simply told saddam that he works for us now, took his oil for free, and left. and then went to iran.
Erm...the US did that in the 1970s and 80s...those WMDs used against Kurds...were provided by the US..then the US turned against Sadaam when he invaded Kuwait in the 1990s an sent aid to Saudi Arabia to off-set the Iraqis, while selling arms to Iran, so on and so on....
and the only people who talk about this are the 'radical leftists'.
http://www.zombietime.com/sf_rally_february_16_2003/Racist_Flag_Enslaved_Africa.jpg
heres a better question. why do you care about the war?
the US is forcing its will on and bullying other nations.
It's a waste of time/money/resources/forces.
It's hipocritical (well the US csn't sink too much lower given its history)
It's a drain on the US Taxpayer.
It's been exploited to help expand the Militry Industrial Complex
UN Treaties were violated
Arguably the Geneva conventions were violated
The reason for it was BS
what are your qualms about war? it's expensive, it results in killing people, trashes nations, it's traumatic on survivors and families of dead and those in its' path...
is it the killing factor? is it the intruding on another nations territory?that too...
do you really think that human kind as a whole can live peacefully together in perfect harmony?yes...at least some semblance. (mainly Western) Europe did after they experienced personally what War does to them. Probably the United States of America would need to experience that themselves to show them what they've been doing to other people on Earth....but that didn't stop the US in the past (first Civil War) within 30 years the US began more conquest (Spanish-American War)-with some Veterans who fought against each other in the Civil War fighting TOGETHER against the Spanish...the Spanish-American War helped to reunify the nation...lol..
Erm...the US did that in the 1970s and 80s...those WMDs used against Kurds...were provided by the US..then the US turned against Sadaam when he invaded Kuwait in the 1990s an sent aid to Saudi Arabia to off-set the Iraqis, while selling arms to Iran, so on and so on....
yeah? whats that have to do with anything? we do what we need to do to protect our interests.
"if man could live in peace and harmony together, he would have done it ages ago".
face it, man as a group is a animal. that's all there is to it. america does the right thing by stepping on throats, crushing weak nations and exploiting them, and just being generally warlike. Might makes Right. survival at all costs, dominance at all costs.
glutamate antagonist
2008-09-11, 16:11
People are stupid.
They don't want to think about sad things.
They don't want to seem unpatriotic.
They don't know enough.
face it, man as a group is a animal. that's all there is to it. america does the right thing by stepping on throats, crushing weak nations and exploiting them, and just being generally warlike. Might makes Right. survival at all costs, dominance at all costs.
Then you won't have to mind as I kill your father and then rape your mother. Nature calls, right?
You're either trolling or retarded. The brutal nature of man is what people should be resisting. Nobody enjoys it when bad things happen to them, and as nature would have it, bad things happen to most people. To an extent we've already achieved a lot.
Then you won't have to mind as I kill your father and then rape your mother. Nature calls, right?
You're either trolling or retarded. The brutal nature of man is what people should be resisting. Nobody enjoys it when bad things happen to them, and as nature would have it, bad things happen to most people. To an extent we've already achieved a lot.
now, now now. did is say, MAN, or MAN AS A GROUP???
anyways, you're welcome to try, in all seriousness.
glutamate antagonist
2008-09-12, 12:12
now, now now. did is say, MAN, or MAN AS A GROUP???
anyways, you're welcome to try, in all seriousness.
That little piece of language hardly changes anything. Are you implying that it's somehow more acceptable if it's a gang rape?
You also said "the right thing".
So would it somehow be morally justified?
Or were you trying to say that the USA is merely complying with man's nature, and not that for some reason it is acceptable? Because "Might makes Right. survival at all costs, dominance at all costs." doesn't exactly sound like you're condemning it.
ChickenOfDoom
2008-09-12, 18:05
what are your qualms about war?
billions of dollars
Pretty much sums it up right there. Why buy missiles to shoot at people who have never and would never have attacked us when you can instead spend that money on repairing our decaying roads and fixing our shitty public education and healthcare systems? Or pay off those trillions of debt? Or maybe even not take it from us in the first place?
Our government needs better priorities, I can't think of a bigger waste of time and resources than this.
That little piece of language hardly changes anything. Are you implying that it's somehow more acceptable if it's a gang rape?
You also said "the right thing".
So would it somehow be morally justified?
Or were you trying to say that the USA is merely complying with man's nature, and not that for some reason it is acceptable? Because "Might makes Right. survival at all costs, dominance at all costs." doesn't exactly sound like you're condemning it.
a gang is pushing it pretty far. that's a fairly small group.
a nation, however, is large enough that when included in one, taken as whole,
nobody
has any human identity. we are simply animals once there are groups of more then a couple thousand of us... our fears and instincts take out, morality and reasoning are quickly overwhelmed by our collective pineal glands.
it doesn't make it right; it simply reduces the group to the same level as a wolf in the wild. there is no right or wrong except strength and weakness once we stop being man, and start being mankind.
glutamate antagonist
2008-09-13, 07:42
a gang is pushing it pretty far. that's a fairly small group.
a nation, however, is large enough that when included in one, taken as whole,
nobody
has any human identity. we are simply animals once there are groups of more then a couple thousand of us... our fears and instincts take out, morality and reasoning are quickly overwhelmed by our collective pineal glands.
it doesn't make it right; it simply reduces the group to the same level as a wolf in the wild. there is no right or wrong except strength and weakness once we stop being man, and start being mankind.
I can totally see your point, and generally I'd agree; I'm just asking if you find it acceptable? Because that's what you seemed to be stating. I was using the example to illustrate a microcosm of the group nature you're describing.