Lately there's been a huge surge in MMA popularity. Are you a fan? I've been a bit of a fan since seeing the odd highlight video on the 'net and it went from there really. Looking up fighters on youtube, reading about all the grappling styles etc. Huge fan of it now. If you are already, who are your favorite fighters and where do you see the sport going?

If you're new to it, what encouraged you to start following it?

I watch it sometimes, but I'm not a huge fan. When its good its good, but when its bad its unbearable for me. As a fighter myself I enjoy watching it as I enjoy watching any other combat sport, that is watching it from the fighter's perspective. Watching the mental game thats going on between each fighter. This of course leads me to one of the two things that I dislike about MMA.

Fighting requires a very strong mind. You win most easily by knowing what your opponent is going to do to lead off, and what he will do in reaction to everything you could do. So for example... if you know he will try to come over the top of your jab with a right hand, but will lunch forward, you could feint the jab, slip the right hand and come up to his chin with a right uppercut. Or you could jab, take a half step back then go over his right hand with a left hook. This is the kind of thing that is going through a fighter's head as he fights.

A lot of MMA fighters though, don't have the long experience fighting hundreds of rounds in sparring and amateur fights that say, professional boxers do. So they are not used to thinking like this. Many MMA fighters don't seem to even think about what their opponent will do at all. If they don't, it just becomes a contest of who has the faster hands, who is stronger, who is slicker on the ground, who knows jiu-jitsu, etc etc. Could be fun to watch, but for me is less interesting.

Also, due to the current level of competition in MMA - you simply don't have to be that good at certain things to excel. There isn't a single MMA fighter I can think of right now that can box that well. I don't even mean boxing in terms of trying to start a career in the sport - but just that MMA fighters in general lack boxing skills. Both western boxing and Thai boxing.

Something as simple as throwing a punch. There are MANY MMA fighters that don't know how to throw a punch properly, that is straight, short, and without losing balance. One should be able to in theory string together a combination of strikes (including kicks and knees) that is infinitely long, and not ever get off balance. I don't mean just shadowboxing, but in the context of a fight - that is, in the ring. You see guys shadowboxing in pre-fight introductions that are taped for MMA promotions all the time, and they throw properly and don't lose their balance. But when fight time comes, these same people seem to only be able to throw big looping hooks, haymakers, and if they try to throw straight punches, they do so very poorly.

Also, MMA fighters have almost no upper body movement. I've never seen an MMA fighter with good upper body movement. And considering very very few MMA fighters block strikes well with their gloves and forearms - upper body movement would be very useful.

What I mean by upper body movement is things like head movement, like what Mike Tyson did at the beginning of his pro career for example is just ducking and dodging, but if you move your entire upper body as you move your head - and lean towards your opponent and to one side - this is called slipping a punch. When you slip a punch, it not only keeps you from getting hit of course, but it also puts you in position so that you are inside the opponent's defense and can throw and land your own strikes without being hindered.

Here is an example of dodging, from Mike Tyson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6zlaIl0yh0

Watch at 1:35 to see him using head movement. Notice even when he starts punching, he still moves his head.

Watch any of his early fights in the 80s and you'll see that he has great defense, but he never has to block or parry punches with his gloves, he does it all by moving his head.. though he uses his entire body to do so. He ducks, bobs, weaves... the whole works. Its beautiful. Mike Tyson in the 80, despite being known just for his punching power and speed, was one of the best defensive fighters of the era.

For even better examples, watch from about 2:00 to about 2:35. Great stuff.

Another kind of upper body movement was favored by people like James Toney and Floyd Mayweather Jr. Here is Floyd in his own words explaining (in the ring) how he uses defense. What Floyd does is turn his body to the side, to present a smaller target to hit, then uses his left should to help defend, and holds his right glove up to block, parry, and catch punches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqOJp9Wmayo

This short highlight video shows some of how he uses those techniques in a fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stR131FoxPM

Upper body movement can mean other things as well.

Great Italian boxer Nicolino Loche, used upper body movement to dodge punches as well. He was a master of using a little energy possible to execute defensive maneuvers. He could stand up straight with his gloves down, and let his opponents throw at will and just dodge every punch, but he would only dodge so far that his face was maybe an inch at most from his opponent's gloves when they'd throw, but thats as far as you need to be.

Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEKHMUCh8k

a yes or no would have been fine.


and I'm a fan.

Gsp ftw

Gsp ftw

Yeah he's alright.

Fedor all the way though.

Yeah he's alright.

Fedor all the way though.

No...

a yes or no would have been fine.




I disagree. It's posts like the ones sambob come up with that keep me from being completely disenchanted with totse.

On topic, I don't really care for MMA or any kind of fighting. It's decent entertainment when nothing else is on, but there usually is something better, and I don't know the technical stuff enough to really get anything out of it. But I will say listening to Joe Rogan can make it worthwhile, although I bet a ton of people hate hearing him.

a yes or no would have been fine.


and I'm a fan.

Why shouldn't I post something that you could actually learn from?

I could have posted 10 more pages about the subject. Nobody said this forum was strictly for people who are casual fans of a sport. I'm so sorry that I actually like to analyze fights and fighters, I hope I didn't offend you too badly.

The most upper movement I've seen from a fighter lately, painfully enough, is from Kimbo Slice. That said people like mirko cro cop, hoost, Bas Rutten don't throw too badly.

I still think it's a far more interesting sport than boxing. I think people might take offense to your post sambob because it could come across as you bashing MMA fighters to some.

sambob,
Your view is that of the typical casual fan of MMA - ignorant of the actual inner workings of fighting. Don't take that offensively, I don't mean it in a demeaning way we can't all be huge fans, but there's a method to the madness in the cage.
As an amateur fighter, I can tell you that a lot of your ideas would get you mauled. Dodging and weaving works well in a boxing bout because there's no threat of grappling. It's easy to argue with me if you haven't so much as sparred in MMA, but if you don't believe me feel free to go into a gym and try to shuck and jive someone. In an MMA fight, doing that puts you in a really poor position to stuff a takedown or worse yet, put your face right into a kick or knee. Being great with knees and kicks myself, I personally PREFER to use my fists sometimes to try to get my opponent to move himself right into a kick.
Same applies with upper body movement. You've got a lot more to worry about in MMA than just your upper body. You need to keep yourself ready to strike, to score a takedown, block strikes, avoid strikes, sprawl, the minute you focus too much on one single aspect of the game - like boxing - is the minute you open yourself wide up for something. It's all about being well rounded. Being a great boxer is definitely good, but if you go in there and fight like you were in a ring you're going to get your shit ruined. Pretty much every instance of someone being dumb enough to do this historically backs that claim up. Same with wrestling - if you wrestle like you would in college, you're also going to get your shit ruined probably. There's boxing, and there's MMA boxing. There's wrestling, and there's MMA wrestling.
I can't argue against the fact there are a lot of poor strikers, but realistically, you can't always throw short, straight punches when your opponent can just hop back and counterattack with something, so sometimes you have to extend to get some range.
Instead of arguing I'll just leave it at this: you can't really compare boxing and MMA. A pure boxer would probably get destroyed in a cage, and an MMA fighter would probably get destroyed in a boxing ring. I know damn well my boxing isn't as good as someone who only trains in boxing, but that's OK with me, cause in the cage I've got more tools than that. If you watch enough fights, you'll learn that being one dimensional hurts. You don't see a lot of really good kick boxers in the higher tiers because they get destroyed by wrestlers and submission specialists for failing to round out their game.
Similarly, pure wrestlers often fail because they can't do anything but hold someone down (old Koscheck). Pure submission specialists get knocked out when their opponent doesn't play into their game (see Frank Mir). Eventually, MMA will evolve to the point where we find ways to learn all of this efficiently but right now, it's honestly a nightmare - a fun one but a learning nightmare all the same. There's so much to learn it's ridiculous.
Just explaining why things are the way they are. I can't make you like oranges if you like apples better. Just helping you understand the orange a little better.

I'm not comparing boxing to MMA, I'm using boxing to illustrate aspects of MMA (of which boxing is one of).

I'm not talking about 'pure boxing', I'm talking about MMA. Just using boxing to illustrate the point because there is more video available to demonstrate.

Just because I don't like watching a bunch of overmuscled, overhyped, and overrated MMA 'fighters' on TV doesn't mean I don't know anything about the sport.

's easy to argue with me if you haven't so much as sparred in MMA, but if you don't believe me feel free to go into a gym and try to shuck and jive someone.

I have sparred with MMA, 50 rounds in the last month alone - and my legs are completely jacked up, so i can barely throw kicks anymore, and my footwork is bad. So I feel pretty qualified to talk about defense in MMA rules. Fought over 100 amateur boxing matches, and over 50 amateur Thai boxing, kickboxing, and even a couple under bullshit gay ass full contact rules.

If you're trying to tell me that you can't dodge strikes in MMA because of the threat of wrestling and takedowns, then YOU don't know anything about MMA. Especially on the outside, defense in the form of movement works great in MMA.

In an MMA fight, doing that puts you in a really poor position to stuff a takedown or worse yet, put your face right into a kick or knee.

Not if you're paying attention to your opponents feet to see if they're even set to throw a kick. Further, the only time dodging a strike would leave you open to knees, kicks, or takedowns - it also leaves you on the INSIDE, in a perfect position to throw punches, and more importantly ELBOWS on the inside. And you can do this BEFORE your opponent can REACT to your movement and THEN attack.

Same applies with upper body movement. You've got a lot more to worry about in MMA than just your upper body. You need to keep yourself ready to strike, to score a takedown, block strikes, avoid strikes, sprawl, the minute you focus too much on one single aspect of the game - like boxing - is the minute you open yourself wide up for something.

Focus too much on one aspect of the game? You obviously don't get it. I'm not talking about focusing TOO MUCH, I'm talking about NOT focusing too LITTLE. Theres a big difference. Furthermore, most of what I talked about in my post only applies to when your opponent is only set to throw punches. When guys are flat footed, throwing hard punches, it will take them longer to get set to throw kicks, knees, etc etc.

Also, you talk about 'avoiding strikes' - what the hell do you think you use upper body movement for?

Maybe its too much for YOU to think about defense as well as offense, but not for most fighters - that is, fighters who actually learn good defense.

Once you learn good defense, and integrated it into your game, and your game PLAN - you don't have to sit there and think "ok don't forget defense!" Also, defense and offense are part of the same train off thought. All defense should be used to set up offense.

you can't always throw short, straight punches when your opponent can just hop back and counterattack with something, so sometimes you have to extend to get some range.

You don't know what a short punch is obviously. When someone talks about throwing short, accurate punches, it means throwing punches AT your target, not THROUGH your target. You punch AT your target. OF COURSE if they have good footwork, they can bounce back... this is NO different than in boxing. Of course if your opponent is further and you choose to throw a punch, you have to throw longer punches, but the short accurate punches I'm referring to are thrown after a defensive maneuver - which allows you to close the distance while your opponent is attacking.

To be quite honest, YOU sound like a casual fan to me, who thinks he knows something about the sport by listening to UFC commentators (who are idiots btw).

I'm not talking about being one dimensional, I'm talking about NOT being ZERO dimensional in your defense - that is, actually HAVING some defense.

I think MMA is the best sport in the world right now. And my favorites are Fedor, GSP, shogun, and kenny florian.
edit: and lyoto machida. partly because i love watching him take the minimum amount of damage, and still kick ass, and partly because i love pissing off people who think he just runs around the ring.

MMA is the best sport in the world right now.

Qftmft!!


Georges St. pierre
B.J penn
Anderson silva

These guys ownZ!!

I have a hard time believing pretty much everything you just said, sambob, given all the inaccuracies and how surprisingly defensive you seem to be when all I was trying to do was fill you in on how it really is. I stopped reading here:

"and even a couple under bullshit gay ass full contact rules."

It's obvious you're one of those guys completely biased against MMA because it isn't boxing, and the fact you fought "a couple" doesn't really mean anything. Based on what was above that, I'm guessing you lost. Also, your foot is jacked up because you apparently trained like a dumbass. Come back when you're not lying and have actually done something.

Overated mma fighters? Get off your fucking highhorse you nippledick.

I have a hard time believing pretty much everything you just said, sambob, given all the inaccuracies and how surprisingly defensive you seem to be when all I was trying to do was fill you in on how it really is. I stopped reading here:

"and even a couple under bullshit gay ass full contact rules."

It's obvious you're one of those guys completely biased against MMA because it isn't boxing, and the fact you fought "a couple" doesn't really mean anything. Based on what was above that, I'm guessing you lost. Also, your foot is jacked up because you apparently trained like a dumbass. Come back when you're not lying and have actually done something.

"Full contact" rules, refers to KICKBOXING, where some people fight with "Full Contact Karate" rules, or Tae Kwon Do, which despite being called 'full contact', don't allow hardly any contact. No punches to the head for example in many governing bodies, no kicks to the legs... stuff like that. Full contact Karate rules are stupid in my book, because its basically glorified Tae Kwon Do sparring...

And my LEGS are jacked up because I was on a head on collision on a highway last September 15.

Nice job dumbass.

Evan Tanner, a former UFC champ, was found dead at 37. RIP

What a shame, Tanner was at one point a very good MMA prospect. Unfortunately I think his fight with Ortiz, and unfortunately his career afterwards (his declining skills, and subsequent knockout losses I believe a result of being knocked out from the slam in the Ortiz fight), demonstrates very well one of the reforms needed in the UFC, and MMA in general. Slams like the one that knocked out Evan Tanner in his fight with Tito Ortiz almost always do their damage with the collision of the fighter's head into the canvas. Hits to the top and back of head can cause brain injuries... which is why strikes to the back of the head in most combat sports are illegal (rabbit punches). Slams are perfectly legal in the UFC, yet they often result in the fighter who is being taken down taking a very hard hit to the back of their head.

After the knockout loss to Ortiz, Tanner went 14-5, with 5 knockout losses. During his last 5 fights he was 1-5, with four of those losses coming from knockouts. His only win coming by a close decision over poor competition, and even most of those losses, and in fact most of his fights after the Ortis fight was with B or even C class fighters.

Fighters should seriously think about retiring after a bad knockout (like the one against Ortiz), and especially after two in a row (As he suffered with Rich Franklin and David Loiseau. But I rarely here UFC commentators even mention that a fighter might want to think about retiring.

People love to say "Look at boxers, they get brain damaged from taking so many blows to the head - you don't see brain damaged MMA fighters." Well, MMA is a young sport... and we're only just now starting to see the effects. MMA fighters don't take as many blows to the head as boxers do... but the damage to fighter's brains comes from taking excessive damage. Like when a fighter is clearly hurt but the stoppage comes too slowly, or in the case of Tanner (in my opinion), when a fighter takes a bad knockout loss and fights again just a few weeks later to take another knockout. In many combat sports.. the athletic commissions, promotors, and governing bodies will suspend a fighter from getting back in the ring, or even before starting sparring too soon after a knockout loss. This happens in MMA with the state athletic commissions, but the promotors don't encourage trainers and fighters to enforce it. So a fighter could get in a situation where the NJSAC won't sanction a fight say with a fighter that was knocked out only 4 months prior to the scheduled date of a fight... but a fighter will be allowed to fight under the NSAC with no problem. In cases like this, the promotors and governing bodies (in this case, the UFC as they are one in the same) should enforce these rulings, but they don't. And as for the trainer - they don't always enforce it either.

This happened three times in Tanner's career. And one time, after a legit knockout loss (not even just a stoppage), Tanner fought literally days after being knocked out.

I have a lot of respect for fighters that are willing to get back in the ring at all after being knocked out. But to get back in the ring without giving proper time to recover before you get back into training (With sparring), and especially before fighting again... is foolish.

Sambob, when you say you're disappointed in the current level of competition in MMA, are you referring to your local area? Or in the entirety of the sport? If it's the latter, you simply don't understand the sport. Yes MMA is an extremely young sport, but most top level fighters are extremely skilled at multiple combat disciplines that have been tried and tested. It differs from boxing in many ways because it has to. To simply go into a ring being able to box well won't offer you the ability to win against most fighters. Although I will admit that the less structured nature of MMA allows people with less skill to compensate with athleticism, which well true to a certain extent in boxing, in my eyes at least, is greater in MMA. Meaning basically, that Brock Lesnar can win even with a pretty low level of skill compared to many others in that division.

If you're referring to your local area there's still quite likely many great fighters who you simply haven't seen. MMA is getting ever more popular and as such the selection of fighters and the pools of fighters in which to choose from is ever growing.

Let me finish with, boxing and MMA are different. No, you don't have to be an amazingly talented boxer to achieve success in even upper levels of MMA, although competency is an asset. An MMA fighter would likely lose a boxing match against a comparably trained boxer, and vice versa. That doesn't mean either is an inferior method of combat.

Are you a MMA fan?

Yes.

ss

Nice job dumbass.

It's all you, man. Alright, I misinterpreted what you said, giving you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you meant full contact as in MMA, but instead you pretty much justified my reasoning for using extreme simplicity and generalizations in explaining how it works by flying off the handle yet again. But hey by all means continue to flip out, it's amusing.

Be glad I'm NOT flipping out.

For you though, keep on not actually responding to any points I say, while still trying to say I'm all wrong. Great way to prove your point, by not even making one.

I made all the points I needed to make in my first post on here, they all still stand so there's no need for me to respond to your fluffed up bullshit. Just because you write huge ass responses doesn't make it any less stupid.
And why should I be worried about "sambob" getting angry, what are you going to do? Tell mommy? Hulk out and jack your leg up? Like I give a shit. God forbid you pull out your ultimate trump and tell an admin OH NOES! I'd never be able to use Totse again?!

IF your points really stand so well, just repeat one of them again.

I'll do you one up, if clicking on the first page and scrolling is too much trouble you can click here for ALL of them:
http://www.totse.com/community/showpost.php?p=10450011&postcount=10
No need to thank me.

And since I know you're not too well versed in MMA, I made an easy to use pair of links:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22MMA+for+Dummies%22&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22difference+between+MMA+and+Boxing%22&btnG=Search

Cause I'll be damned if I'm about to waste any effort other than that explaining color to the blind.

I watch it sometimes, but I'm not a huge fan. When its good its good, but when its bad its unbearable for me. As a fighter myself I enjoy watching it as I enjoy watching any other combat sport, that is watching it from the fighter's perspective. Watching the mental game thats going on between each fighter. This of course leads me to one of the two things that I dislike about MMA.

Fighting requires a very strong mind. You win most easily by knowing what your opponent is going to do to lead off, and what he will do in reaction to everything you could do. So for example... if you know he will try to come over the top of your jab with a right hand, but will lunch forward, you could feint the jab, slip the right hand and come up to his chin with a right uppercut. Or you could jab, take a half step back then go over his right hand with a left hook. This is the kind of thing that is going through a fighter's head as he fights.

A lot of MMA fighters though, don't have the long experience fighting hundreds of rounds in sparring and amateur fights that say, professional boxers do. So they are not used to thinking like this. Many MMA fighters don't seem to even think about what their opponent will do at all. If they don't, it just becomes a contest of who has the faster hands, who is stronger, who is slicker on the ground, who knows jiu-jitsu, etc etc. Could be fun to watch, but for me is less interesting.

Also, due to the current level of competition in MMA - you simply don't have to be that good at certain things to excel. There isn't a single MMA fighter I can think of right now that can box that well. I don't even mean boxing in terms of trying to start a career in the sport - but just that MMA fighters in general lack boxing skills. Both western boxing and Thai boxing.

Something as simple as throwing a punch. There are MANY MMA fighters that don't know how to throw a punch properly, that is straight, short, and without losing balance. One should be able to in theory string together a combination of strikes (including kicks and knees) that is infinitely long, and not ever get off balance. I don't mean just shadowboxing, but in the context of a fight - that is, in the ring. You see guys shadowboxing in pre-fight introductions that are taped for MMA promotions all the time, and they throw properly and don't lose their balance. But when fight time comes, these same people seem to only be able to throw big looping hooks, haymakers, and if they try to throw straight punches, they do so very poorly.

Also, MMA fighters have almost no upper body movement. I've never seen an MMA fighter with good upper body movement. And considering very very few MMA fighters block strikes well with their gloves and forearms - upper body movement would be very useful.

What I mean by upper body movement is things like head movement, like what Mike Tyson did at the beginning of his pro career for example is just ducking and dodging, but if you move your entire upper body as you move your head - and lean towards your opponent and to one side - this is called slipping a punch. When you slip a punch, it not only keeps you from getting hit of course, but it also puts you in position so that you are inside the opponent's defense and can throw and land your own strikes without being hindered.

Here is an example of dodging, from Mike Tyson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6zlaIl0yh0

Watch at 1:35 to see him using head movement. Notice even when he starts punching, he still moves his head.

Watch any of his early fights in the 80s and you'll see that he has great defense, but he never has to block or parry punches with his gloves, he does it all by moving his head.. though he uses his entire body to do so. He ducks, bobs, weaves... the whole works. Its beautiful. Mike Tyson in the 80, despite being known just for his punching power and speed, was one of the best defensive fighters of the era.

For even better examples, watch from about 2:00 to about 2:35. Great stuff.

Another kind of upper body movement was favored by people like James Toney and Floyd Mayweather Jr. Here is Floyd in his own words explaining (in the ring) how he uses defense. What Floyd does is turn his body to the side, to present a smaller target to hit, then uses his left should to help defend, and holds his right glove up to block, parry, and catch punches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqOJp9Wmayo

This short highlight video shows some of how he uses those techniques in a fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stR131FoxPM

Upper body movement can mean other things as well.

Great Italian boxer Nicolino Loche, used upper body movement to dodge punches as well. He was a master of using a little energy possible to execute defensive maneuvers. He could stand up straight with his gloves down, and let his opponents throw at will and just dodge every punch, but he would only dodge so far that his face was maybe an inch at most from his opponent's gloves when they'd throw, but thats as far as you need to be.

Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEKHMUCh8k

The whole reason as to the punching is why i owned in MMA fights and was disenchanted by it. As soon as i tore in and cornered em it felt like beating a giant 8 year old kid.

NOPE! Hate the stuff. Boring to watch. Rather watch WWE. Any one of them could take any mma fighter.

samboob and psycolonic should get in the cage so they can touch eachother like the faggy whiners they are

Lately there's been a huge surge in MMA popularity. Are you a fan? I've been a bit of a fan since seeing the odd highlight video on the 'net and it went from there really. Looking up fighters on youtube, reading about all the grappling styles etc. Huge fan of it now. If you are already, who are your favorite fighters and where do you see the sport going?

If you're new to it, what encouraged you to start following it?

mdma fan

I'm a huge fan, its the one sport I watch religiously and have a decent knowledge about.

As for favourite fighters:
HW: Fedor (naturally) Big Nog, Andrei Arlovski, Don Frye, Gary Goodridge and although I am constantly attacked for it, Kimbo Slice, mainly because I think he gets a hugely unfair amount of criticism.
LHW: Rampage, Wandy, Babalu, Thiago Silva and Lyoto Machida (I recently bet my friend £100 that he will be champion before 2010)
MW: I fucking love Hendo - his Palhares fight was one of the most exciting I've seen in a long while, Anderson Silva - he's an absolute artist and I'm shocked noone mentioned him in regards to Sambob's point on dodging - http://mmalinker.com/xExternal.php?vidid=7938 (0:25 First Round is absolutely absurd)
WW: GSP, Alves
LW: BJ Penn and Tyson Griffin

On a side note, I fucking hate Brock Lesnar, hopefully Randy will get the job done but if he doesn't I'd put my house on Nogueira subbing him.

I love mma. I've done some kickboxing and am thinking about training at militech's. Being in the same city as some huge mma stars (Pulver, Hughes, Sylvia to name a few) and the home of Pat Militech's gym is pretty sweet.

As for favorite fighters, I really enjoy Mirko Cro Cop and Genki Sudo. Genki's unusual style allowed him to win quite a few of his matches. Opponents never knew what to expect or how to fight him even. Tis a shame he had to retire.

MMA is the shit. If it doesn't involve combat or racing, then I don't want to watch it. Anyway, my favorite fighters are Diego Sanchez, Houston Alexander, and Brandon Vera.I like Sanchez because of his no bullshit disposition and ability to constantly go full force. I like Vera because he's fast as a heavyweight. I like Alexander because he's like a freight train, damn hard to stop, not to mention strong as fuck. The only thing about Alexander is that he needs to work on his ground skills.

I like Alexander because he's like a freight train, damn hard to stop, not to mention strong as fuck. The only thing about Alexander is that he needs to work on his ground skills.

Alexander has moments of greatness but he's just too erratic, his recent performance against Schafer was just embarrassing: fought well for two minutes then completely gassed and ended up getting sub'd, poor form Houston, poor form. He's lost three fights in a row now, when you factor in his age I'm pretty sure he'll be given the boot if he doesn't deliver in his next fight.

It's a watered down, pissy ass, commercial version of underground cage fighting for the masses. Once you've been to an illicit freefight match, you'll forget all about watching a bunch of pumped up scout boys.

Fuck no small joint manipulation.
Fuck no pressure points.
Fuck no eye gouging.
Fuck limited chokes.

Anyone who's had any decent combat training, private or military wise, or just loves fighting knows what I'm talking about.

Stuff like boxing I'm cool with cause it's an actual sport, with rules that make sense. Freefight is all about ruthlessness and pain. That's why it is illegal. When you strip it of its key aspects and impose rules on it, then market it towards a bunch of fat wrestlingmania fans, it basically loses all sense.

But maybe MMA is just an American thing. I never got the whole "professional wrestling" thing you have going on there either.

Anyone who's had any decent combat training, private or military wise, or just loves fighting knows what I'm talking about.


Oh please, I refuse to believe you are this stupid. You're an old hat snoopy so I'll give you more credit than you probably deserve. Military hand to hand training is flat out worthless. How long do you stay in Boot? Not long enough to grasp any sort of real unarmed combat training, it's garbage. I've sparred against these so called "killers" or "Combat Experts". They suck.

As for boxing in MMA, Sam you cant expect MMA fighters to be decent boxers because a lot of boxing just doesn't work in the cage. You mentioned Mike Tyson and I love watching his old fights, but to get in he often went low, WAY low. In mma that would get you a mouth full of grade A knee bone. You can't just be a great boxer, a great wrestler, and a great jiujitsu guy and expect to be a great mma fighter. So much of other martial arts just don't work when put into a chaotic, near anything goes situation.

Oh please, I refuse to believe you are this stupid. You're an old hat snoopy so I'll give you more credit than you probably deserve. Military hand to hand training is flat out worthless. How long do you stay in Boot? Not long enough to grasp any sort of real unarmed combat training, it's garbage. I've sparred against these so called "killers" or "Combat Experts". They suck.

I was never in the military, but I did go through similar training. Calling it worthless is a failure on your end, however. They teach you a combination of thai boxing, wing tsun, ju jitsu and grapling, with the emphasis on lethal techniques and pain tolerance. The rest is just practice and more practice. Just about the EXACT same stuff they train at any place that teaches freefight. That's why it goes beyond me why you would call it worthless.

Although I can understand that you sparred against morons. The place I trained at also trained cops, although they followed a different training. After a week in the camp they thought they were Bruce fucking Lee.

My point however was, that MMA tries to display this fighting style, but fails due to silly rules. I don't know how it is where you live but in some places here, illegal matches are pretty popular. If you get the chance to go to one I'd highly advise it as it is a damn cool experience. The fights end usually pretty fast, but you'll get a nice rush of adrenaline just from watching it.

P.S.

How come you don't drop by #totse anymore?

Note: To avoid word confusion, I consider "MMA" the stuff you see in UFC and PRIDE, and "freefight" no rules at all.

I was never in the military, but I did go through similar training. Calling it worthless is a failure on your end, however. They teach you a combination of thai boxing, wing tsun, ju jitsu and grapling, with the emphasis on lethal techniques and pain tolerance. The rest is just practice and more practice. Just about the EXACT same stuff they train at any place that teaches freefight. That's why it goes beyond me why you would call it worthless.

Although I can understand that you sparred against morons. The place I trained at also trained cops, although they followed a different training. After a week in the camp they thought they were Bruce fucking Lee.

My point however was, that MMA tries to display this fighting style, but fails due to silly rules. I don't know how it is where you live but in some places here, illegal matches are pretty popular. If you get the chance to go to one I'd highly advise it as it is a damn cool experience. The fights end usually pretty fast, but you'll get a nice rush of adrenaline just from watching it.

P.S.

How come you don't drop by #totse anymore?

Note: To avoid word confusion, I consider "MMA" the stuff you see in UFC and PRIDE, and "freefight" no rules at all.

I've sparred against cops too. They should stick to their OC spray and clubs. Around here we have something called the gathering of the sticks, or just the gathering. It's a Thai match with 2 Kali sticks in the middleish part of the ring. You can go for the sticks, or you can not go for the sticks. Usually ends up in broken faces or fingers.

As for not coming by #totse anymore, I do from time to time. I don't know anyone in there anymore. I never see Susie in there anymore, I haven't seen Tripballs in forever, and a few other people don't come in anymore either. Every time I come in, it's just a bunch of jibber jabber. Also a while back I would come in there angry and drunk and say a bunch of dumb shit. A lot of people probably still don't like me.

I've sparred against cops too. They should stick to their OC spray and clubs. Around here we have something called the gathering of the sticks, or just the gathering. It's a Thai match with 2 Kali sticks in the middleish part of the ring. You can go for the sticks, or you can not go for the sticks. Usually ends up in broken faces or fingers.

Sounds like fun. The reason I'm against such rules as small joint operation, eye gouging and pressure point manipulation is that they greatly reduce your chance from getting out of a silly lock and fighters end up tapping out too early from the most simple joint locks. Without those rules, you see far better and complex locks. Preferably ones that completely obstruct the fighter from tapping out altogether. Best case scenario (from the audience point of view) are neck injuries, broken elbows, dislocated shoulders, busted knees, etc.

A guy I went to high school with does matches about 1 or 2 times a month. I accidentally bumped into him during my training last year. I could hardly recognize his face, for obvious reasons. Through him I discovered the awesomeness of no rules fights.

As for not coming by #totse anymore, I do from time to time. I don't know anyone in there anymore. I never see Susie in there anymore, I haven't seen Tripballs in forever, and a few other people don't come in anymore either. Every time I come in, it's just a bunch of jibber jabber. Also a while back I would come in there angry and drunk and say a bunch of dumb shit. A lot of people probably still don't like me.

Trippy is probably dead from his 176th heroin overdose. Suzie has been on quite a lot lately. And everyone is always pissed off at you, you drunken bastard. Why do you think I'm so hated?

Sounds like fun. The reason I'm against such rules as small joint operation, eye gouging and pressure point manipulation is that they greatly reduce your chance from getting out of a silly lock and fighters end up tapping out too early from the most simple joint locks. Without those rules, you see far better and complex locks. Preferably ones that completely obstruct the fighter from tapping out altogether. Best case scenario (from the audience point of view) are neck injuries, broken elbows, dislocated shoulders, busted knees, etc.

A guy I went to high school with does matches about 1 or 2 times a month. I accidentally bumped into him during my training last year. I could hardly recognize his face, for obvious reasons. Through him I discovered the awesomeness of no rules fights.



Trippy is probably dead from his 176th heroin overdose. Suzie has been on quite a lot lately. And everyone is always pissed off at you, you drunken bastard. Why do you think I'm so hated?

I would try a few of those fights if I got the chance, but while it is nice to let go, I like my balls. I do enough sanctioned mma matches to keep me knee deep in asses to kick. Shame about Trippy, the man could sport a suit like no other.

Oh please, I refuse to believe you are this stupid. You're an old hat snoopy so I'll give you more credit than you probably deserve. Military hand to hand training is flat out worthless. How long do you stay in Boot? Not long enough to grasp any sort of real unarmed combat training, it's garbage. I've sparred against these so called "killers" or "Combat Experts". They suck.

As for boxing in MMA, Sam you cant expect MMA fighters to be decent boxers because a lot of boxing just doesn't work in the cage. You mentioned Mike Tyson and I love watching his old fights, but to get in he often went low, WAY low. In mma that would get you a mouth full of grade A knee bone. You can't just be a great boxer, a great wrestler, and a great jiujitsu guy and expect to be a great mma fighter. So much of other martial arts just don't work when put into a chaotic, near anything goes situation.

Well the other guy got an extra chance before I gave up on him (its hard to argue with someone when he won't even reply to the points you make). So I'll say it one more time. I am not talking about MMA fighters boxing, I'm not talking about a boxer going into a cage. I'm talking about skills used in boxing, which can work in MMA, that are ignored by MMA fighters.

Tyson's style of head movement CAN be used in MMA. Getting low to duck strikes does NOT mean you are going to catch a knee. IF you are close enough to get hit by a knee when you're bobbing to avoid a punch... then WHILE you are bobbing.. you are getting set to throw your own punch (or take the guy down). Also, to throw a knee immediately after a punch requires you to get set to throw it with any power... if the guy bobbing spends that much time standing right in front of you with his knees bent.. then he's not even doing it right.

I mean come on, nobody throws a punch, and when its ducked is able to get set and throw a perfect knee to catch the guy's chin.

People land knees on guys who are low or have their head's down when they... lean in too much ALL THE TIME (which is just bad fighting), or when they are timed on a defensive move. If you defend the same way to punches all the time, then yes your moves can be timed. This is why its good to vary your technique, and with body movement especially to vary angles. Even when you're timing someone else, if you keep trying to slip a right hand to the left so you can land a good left hook to the body... if you fail the first time, but know he's going to reach on a right hand.. slip to the right the next time. There's no telling how smart your opponent is.

I understand for SOME of you, some of this is hard to understand since you probably don't have a very good understanding of distance and timing in the context of a fight. I'd love to be able to explain all of this in person but we don't all have that luxury. So perhaps people who want to reply to what I'm saying might ought to READ MY POSTS VERY CAREFULLY.

None of what you're saying is hard to understand. It's just incorrect. Aspects of boxing that can be used against tier one competition are being used. A lot of what you're saying would work against amateurs, but there is a reason it isn't being used in most upper-level MMA.

Some people have literally grown up with MMA, whether with family or with own inspiration and they aren't using your ideas. Just because an idea sounds alright, which yours doesn't even really, doesn't give it automatic effectiveness in the ring.

I hope you take this as an actuality and not just a criticism but people much better at all aspects of fighting than you have stepped into a cage or ring and lost. You're ideas aren't revolutionary. Pure boxers have used them and done alright until their talents were counted and that is why you see a lot of fights happen the way they do now.

If you claim anything I said wouldn't work, then explain it to everyone else.

I addressed some of this in my last post.

You're still bullshitting, saying general things without actually giving an explanation, as I have done.

Everything I've talked about in this thread is based ENTIRELY upon its effectiveness in the ring. Do you even fight? The only thing you have posted about is general statements trying to say what I'm posting about is wrong - without using any actual arguments about how things work IN THE RING to support what you are saying.

Try again. Oh wait, you haven't tried yet. All you seem capable of saying is "No you're wrong, I'm right!"

Sambob, the only problem with what you're saying is I find it hard to believe that they've never tried any of those techniques. Even though MMA is a young sport, I would think that at least a few fighters have had these exact same ideas, tried them, found them ineffective, and that was that. It's not like these guys never train or try to figure out better ways to win. It's like any other sport - research, training, etc. - I just cannot picture any of these professionals slapping themselves on the forehead saying "why didn't we think of that?!"

http://i38.tinypic.com/14kvhw.jpg

A. Silva's strike here is obviously not a perfect boxing punch, but look what it does to Irvin. Boxing is an important part of the mix in MMA, but a fighter with incredible boxing skills will not do as well as you think in the ring.
And what if they feint a punch, you slip it, and they grab you in a Thai clinch and knee you? WTF will upper body movement do for you then?

Well the other guy got an extra chance before I gave up on him (its hard to argue with someone when he won't even reply to the points you make).

I see I did the right thing by not coming back into this thread after my last reply, but then I had to fuck it up by coming back out of curiosity. It's pretty hilarious how you can say someone like Fedor has poor technique when he's undefeated against prominent strikers then try to make it sound you "gave up on" me.
The problem is, your "points" are moot, which is why I'm talking to you like you're a retard. Instead of arguing, I'm just going to point out simple facts and ask you a question. If you can give it a good answer, I'll accept your point of view.

There are thousands of professional and amateur mixed martial artists out there right now, and you can bet a fair chunk comes from boxing backgrounds. Yet everyone I've seen try to just box like they were in a boxing ring gets knocked out by sub par strikers. By this I'm talking about your body movements you rave about. A good boxing stance and good boxing movements are BAD MMA movements. That last guy that said the same thing doesn't NEED to point shit out to you. You can watch it on TV and watch it happen. The cage is like fighting evolution. If it doesn't work, it gets passed over. Boxing was around long before MMA. If what you're saying was true, we would have seen it happen by now with SOMEBODY. Don't you find it just a hair funny that there are karate practitioners and even a few K1 fighters who use Tae Kwon Do, yet no boxers with "proper technique" winning their matches? It's because it's about as effective as Wing Chun in the cage. Are you aware that there are more forms of ground jiu jitsu than Brazilian? In fact, many gyms are crossing over to a new style. Primarily, the difference is in grips. The relevance is that it's bad form if you're a BJJ artist. But it works. So do the "bad" head and body movements from current MMA fighters, and apparently works a lot fucking better than your idea did.

Come on. Do you really think that the thousands of fighters out there have never seen a boxing match? That they're just too proud to hire a regular boxing trainer or something? There's a reason that instead strikers like Erik Paulson are coveted trainers in the MMA world. It's proven in the cage, and it reliably integrates all aspects of MMA which pure boxing does not. What can be adapted from boxing already has been.

So I ask you: if your coveted boxing technique was so effective in the cage, why haven't we seen it after thousands of fights despite coming from a very well known combat sport?

EDIT - While I'm at it, you know what? Why don't you present some FACTS in your argument instead of your one-sided opinions. You constantly ask others for back up, and you provide none yourself. You've got loose speculation against the REALITY I've pointed out above. Until you can back up your theory with some fucking examples, you're nothing more than a dumbass trying to argue that the Earth is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. I already know I'm fucking right, as does anyone with a brain inside their skull. The only question left unanswered is whether you're stupid enough to believe what you're saying is true or whether you know you're a complete moron and are just trying to save your e-penis at this point.

Facts or shut the fuck up. Want mine? Just watch some MMA bouts.

EDIT 2 (Cause your argument is so full of holes I can go on all day about it):
I thought of some boxers that made their way into MMA.
We've got Merciless Ray Mercer. Great boxer. Lost to Kimbo Slice when Slice had almost no formal training. Sure, Mercer was old, but Kimbo wasn't exactly young and Kimbo again had hell of less "technique" according to you.
Butterbean. Enough said.
The rest apparently sucked too damn much to even get known. I'm sure there's more. None world class, but by your reasoning, even a boxing chump should roll over MMA fighters with their superior ability to avoid striking.

I have to ask. What the fuck is superior technique supposed to be? Avoiding strikes and striking faster and with more power? Kinda like MMA fighters can already do? Just because it looks different, it's inferior? Prove your claim. Prove that MMA fighter have INFERIOR technique. Not different, inferior. Oh wait, you can't. You've just got more shit opinions and try to validate them by repeating them over and over across a multiple paragraph post.

If you're going to come in here and try to bash other people's opinions like yours is fact, then you're going to fucking present facts. You're going to show some examples of why your idea is correct or else your idea doesn't hold any more weight than a fart. The sad thing is, I seem to recall your name once having a moderator tag under it. I can only imagine you got it by bullshitting like you are now with absolutely no factual claims to back any of it and people who didn't know better thought you knew something. Every time you sit here and try to ice skate uphill, you're just letting TOTSE know how little you actually know, and I love it. So by all means continue.

I don't know man. Shit must just fall right out of your mouth every time it opens. This isn't even an argument, at least not any more than a guy trying to say the Earth is flat, once again. Looking forward to listening to more of your unbacked, unproven opinions, bitch.

on topic- best mma fighter out there rigt now....tie between gsp and bj penn, gsp is just so athletic, he has proven to be a true champion twice, he lost t matt hughes then went and corrected his technique and then beat him twice, other time was in losing to matt serra, he did the same, went back to training and corrected his technique and beat, however i was disappointed by him with jon fitch fight, and bj penn got his shit together and has been awesome after beating pulver he's totally focused now and will be at the top for a long time

off topic- sambob is exactly what an mma fan isnt, he claims to be a fight fan and a fighter himself but i doubt he really fights, hes probly just a fat dork behind a computer in his mothers basement just like the rest of us on here, even if he does really fight i doubt he'd be any good at mma cuz he tends to thinks everything comes down to technique, you might be able to get away wit dat shite in boxing but not mma, mma is just so unpredictable, keith jardine knocking out forrest griffin, rashad evans knocking out chuck liddell, matt serra knocking out gsp, gonzaga-crocop, lauzon-pulver, and the list goes on, you can have your technique down and be fully prepared going in to a fight, but in mma sometimes it jus isnt enough, thats what i love about the sport

on topic- best mma fighter out there rigt now....tie between gsp and bj penn

Dude, I love GSP, and I have a lot of respect for Penn, but Fedor is the best MMA fighter in the world right now. Anderson Silva is incredible, GSP is incredible, Urijah Faber is incredible, but Fedor has simply beaten too many top ranked fighters to not be #1 P4P. He is basically undefeated. (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Fedor-Emelianenko-1500)

Dude, I love GSP, and I have a lot of respect for Penn, but Fedor is the best MMA fighter in the world right now. Anderson Silva is incredible, GSP is incredible, Urijah Faber is incredible, but Fedor has simply beaten too many top ranked fighters to not be #1 P4P. He is basically undefeated. (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Fedor-Emelianenko-1500)

i must agree with you, at the moment he is the best, before the sylvia fight i didnt like him, even though sylvia is overrated he is still a good fighter, and fedor impressed me with his quick win over the giant, and he beat him at his own game too, so fedor is the best, but the two ufc champs mentioned in my previous post are my favorites

I have a hard time falling into the Anderson Silva hype. He's a great fighter, no doubt, but what has he done to solidify himself as the world's top P4P fighter? He's beaten Dan Henderson and Rich Franklin, after clearing the UFC's weakest division. Undeniably big wins, but worthy of the P4P declaration?
If Fedor and Silva were able to match weight and fight, I'd personally bet the house on Fedor.
He's shown he can escape elite submission artists repeatedly (Nogueira x3), withstand brutal striking (CroCop, Hong Man Choi) , outstrike fighters with superior reach and power (Tim Sylvia), knock off powerful wrestlers (Randleman, Lindland, Coleman), and of course his record, MMA and otherwise, is ridiculous. Fedor has defeated fighters with better striking than Silva, better submissions, and better wrestling.
Silva is good, damn good, but it's my opinion that his P4P "title" is merely a UFC hype product taken by so-called "hardcore" fans as fact.

you can have your technique down and be fully prepared going in to a fight, but in mma sometimes it jus isnt enough, thats what i love about the sport

This is because on average, MMA fighters lack the rounds to fight consistently, the technique, and the conditioning to be as predictable as boxers or Thai boxers. This is part of what makes MMA so exciting. Though the promotors want it to stay like this... it won't. Eventually MMA will evolve and through the nature of fighting in a scientific manner. But if you truly love the sport, it will just get better and better.

sambob is exactly what an mma fan isnt, he claims to be a fight fan and a fighter himself but i doubt he really fights, hes probly just a fat dork behind a computer in his mothers basement just like the rest of us on here, even if he does really fight i doubt he'd be any good at mma cuz he tends to thinks everything comes down to technique, you might be able to get away wit dat shite in boxing but not mma,

I don't fight anymore because I can't get licensed to box, and I doubt I could fight under any commission in the US that sanctions MMA fights. Last September I broke my left femur in several places, my right tibia and fibia, and I have broken bones in both of my hands in literally dozens of places. I wouldn't normally say this kind of thing, as its kind of a dick move - but, if you really would like to know if I know anything about fighting, we could spar sometime. I'd love to see how badass you must be if you are a man enough to call people you don't even know fat slobs.

A. Silva's strike here is obviously not a perfect boxing punch, but look what it does to Irvin. Boxing is an important part of the mix in MMA, but a fighter with incredible boxing skills will not do as well as you think in the ring.

Throwing punches in unorthodox ways and from unorthodox angles can be very effective depending on who does it. Even in the boxing world... guys like Roy Jones can throw knockout punches while practically leaping through the air.

I will say this for the VERY LAST TIME:

I am not talking about putting a boxer in a MMA ring. How many fucking times do I have to say this? I am not talking about getting an MMA fighter to stand in a boxing stance and try to fight an MMA fighter like a boxer.

I will put what I am saying into one sentence, if you still don't get it and keep replying about things that I haven't even said, and have in fact repeatedly said "No thats not what I'm saying", then god help you:

As throwing punches, and knowing how to defend against them is one of the most important aspects of MMA, I feel that MMA fighters would be far more successful if they would learn more boxing than just the fundamentals - and if they would learn those fundamentals COMPLETELY instead of just in a half assed manner.

To address the idea that MMA fighters MUST just know these kinds of techniques but just don't use them because they aren't effective... its not that simple.

First of all, there are almost NO MMA trainers out there with an EXTENSIVE boxing background. Why is this? Well because as very high level boxing has such refined technique... it takes years to learn it. After spending 10 years learning everything there is about boxing technique - trainers have no incentive to spend another few years trying to break it into the MMA world. Boxing is big business, there is a LOT more money in boxing than MMA. If you look at the biggest boxing pay days in the last few years, and the biggest MMA pay days in the past few years you will see what I mean. Including their purses, promotional interests, endorsements, etc etc., Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather Jr made somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 million dollars after their fight. MMA fighters and trainers make MUCH less than that. Champions in the UFC have made as little as $10,000 for title defenses. Whereas even minor titles defended in the boxing world often have purses worth up to $200,000.

Another reason why the techniques I'm talking about don't show up in MMA, is the level of fighting experience in the average MMA fighter these days. The top professional boxers usually have along amateur career before turning pro. Top boxers of the last 10 years like Shane Mosley, Oscar De La Hoya, etc etc., have had anywhere from 200 to even 500 amateur fights before turning pro.

Stand up fighting is less about technique, heart, and physical gifts than it is about whats going on in your head. Knowing how to out think the other fighter. This ONLY comes from lots and lots of experience. The various defensive techniques I've discussed, are not techniques you can just learn one day and incorporate into your fight game in your next tournament, they take lots of time to use properly.

I mostly just look forward to the future of MMA. Eventually, pro MMA fighters will only BE pros after years of amateur fighting as teens, maybe even an Olympic gold medal and a few national and international tournament gold medals under their foul protector (So to speak..).

If you don't believe that the defensive techniques I've discussed can work under MMA rules, come to the gym with me and we can work on it. Maybe Das_Troll and I can hook up sometime and work on it, that would be a cool video for the forum.

Maybe Das_Troll and I can hook up sometime and work on it, that would be a cool video for the forum.

Lol, this is always what it ends up boiling down to isn't it.
Sambob has been around long enough and said enough legitimate shit to make it clear that he really did fight, and it's not that difficult of a story to believe anyway, so there's no point in trying to call BS on it.


To address the idea that MMA fighters MUST just know these kinds of techniques but just don't use them because they aren't effective... its not that simple.
(the rest)

I see what you're saying. But, I would still be surprised if a not even a few of these techniques have been tried out, or atleast dabbled with. Like I said, they want to win and aren't so dumb they'll pass on really obvious stuff that lots of people could tell them about (it's not like interaction between MMA guys and boxers never happens), and like the other guy said, knee to the face, etc.

Ugh, is this thread gonna turn into Sambob and some other guy going back and forth telling each other that they know more about (insert subject).

But, I support any sport that consists of two men in a cage trying to do things to each other that in regular life, would be aggravated assault and carry a mandatory minimum of jail time.

I just hate how you don't ever see people getting ground and pounded anymore, it's too much wrestling and ground jiu jitsu shit, a submission is kinda cool, but I watch MMA simply to see a bunch of violence.

I personally think there are a couple too many rules. There shouldn't be any rules restricting strikes, you should be able to use any part of your body, to damage any part of your opponents body. Headbutts should most definitely be legal, mostly because nobody would ever use a headbutt, and if they did, it would inevitably be awesome.

I think that they should do the first MMA fight to the death. Gladiatorial Arena style. Motherfucking Thunderdome style. No weapons, but TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES.

I think that they should do the first MMA fight to the death. Gladiatorial Arena style. Motherfucking Thunderdome style. No weapons, but TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES.

Pretty big scene, buddy. Just don't expect to see it on tv. I haven't yet witnessed a fatality, but I've seen fuckers get banged up pretty badly. A lot of money involved in it as well. But you probably don't want to get into that aspect of the "sport". It's full of people that are like; "I'm not paying up because I have a gun and 20 goons with 20 guns". It's not like you can go to the cops and bitch about losing money in an illegal cage fight.

Also, you can't expect to see the spectacular fights you see on tv. They have to sell their crap so there's plenty of show involved. The illegal fights themselves are short and pretty dull. The only fun in them is watching a guy getting a one way ticket to a wheelchair.

Ugh, is this thread gonna turn into Sambob and some other guy going back and forth telling each other that they know more about (insert subject).

But, I support any sport that consists of two men in a cage trying to do things to each other that in regular life, would be aggravated assault and carry a mandatory minimum of jail time.

I just hate how you don't ever see people getting ground and pounded anymore, it's too much wrestling and ground jiu jitsu shit, a submission is kinda cool, but I watch MMA simply to see a bunch of violence.

I personally think there are a couple too many rules. There shouldn't be any rules restricting strikes, you should be able to use any part of your body, to damage any part of your opponents body. Headbutts should most definitely be legal, mostly because nobody would ever use a headbutt, and if they did, it would inevitably be awesome.

I think that they should do the first MMA fight to the death. Gladiatorial Arena style. Motherfucking Thunderdome style. No weapons, but TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES.

The rules governing strikes... like against striking to the back of the head, are for the fighters protection. You have to understand that especially something strong like a knee to the back of the head on the ground... can instantly give someone a concussion - a very bad one. Getting hit in the back of the head (and to some degree on top of the head) can cause a lot of damage that can be very harmful to the fighter. I'm sure you don't want your favorite fighters to suffer permanent damage that could have easily been avoided.

And headbutts? What do you mean "no one would ever use head butts"? A headbutt is not what you see in movies when someone hits another guy in the face with his face/forehead. THAT particular move, is a movie fantasy. A headbutt is using the top of the head to hit your opponents head somewhere, usually the chin, or the upper parts of the face to try to cause a cut. Headbutts are just too dangerous to be allowed. And people DO use them now, you just don't understand what a headbutt is, so you don't realize you're seeing them. Headbutts are easy to miss even if you know what to look for to be quite honest. When two guys are fighting on the inside, in a clinch, wrestling or grappling, both standing or on the ground (or in between), their heads often seem to be rubbing up against each other or just touching. This doesn't seem like much contact... but something that seems very gentle can actually be a VERY hard headbutt. And crafty fighters can get away with butting intentionally as well. You rush in with a strike with your head down in such a manner so that if the fighter defends against the strike he gets hit in the chin with the butt. And also butts in a clinch or when grappling sometimes are just impossible to defend against. Butts can be very powerful strikes. Many fighters though not necessarily knocked out, are buzzed pretty bad by a butt... then are proceeded to get knocked out by legal strikes.

And if you only watch MMA to see violence, and don't like anything other than standup fighting - you're watching the wrong sport. Go watch local tough man contests, thats what you want to watch.

I'm sorry the sport is too sophisticated for you.

Submission fighting, wrestling, and grappling is a HUGE aspect of the sport. If you don't like it, why watch? Its like watching hockey just for the fights, or baseball just for home runs, or American football just for injuries... sheesh
Lol, this is always what it ends up boiling down to isn't it.
Sambob has been around long enough and said enough legitimate shit to make it clear that he really did fight, and it's not that difficult of a story to believe anyway, so there's no point in trying to call BS on it.

Well... some MMA fans only seem to care about the whole 'rawr, blood, guts, knockouts!' thing. And to them, reading someone (like myself) write about the science behind fighting seems to them against what they perceive as the whole spirit of things. Fighting as a SPORT, with few rules (such as thai boxing, western boxing, and MMA) is a scientific endeavor. People don't want to get beat up, and they want to win more - so they improve, fight by fight, fighter by fighter, generation by generation. There's a reason why they call boxing 'the sweet science'. Its the most scientific form of combat and especially the most scientific form of a combat sport. People don't do what doesn't work, and they constantly search for ways to be better fighters. Fights go to decisions more than they used to in the past because the top level guys are getting better and better. Because of improvements in this 'science', the best fighters of today would MURDER the best fighters of 30 or 40 years ago - on average that is. Talent is something that just pops up from time to time. Sugar Ray Robinson may be more TALENTED than any fighter right now - but there are probably a few people in his weight class (from 147-160) that could beat him easily, because the sport has evolved.

Once again I'm sure people will say "Boxing isn't MMA, boo hoo hoo". Thats not the point. The point is, boxing and MMA are both scientific forms of fighting. MMA is in its infancy. But look how the level of skill in MMA fighters has already improved so much since UFC 1, to the latest UFC card you've seen this year. And it will continue to change and improve as long as the sport as around. Boxing has been around in its current form for many many more years than MMA, thats why as a scientific form of combat, its far more advanced (Within its own rules) than MMA, FAAAR more. This is why I say MMA fighters should spend more time learning from boxing than they currently do. In its current form, there are a hundred years worth of tape to watch on boxing to learn different things to do in standup fighting. Even if one is convinced that techniques used in boxing are worthless in MMA - there are other things you can watch. The mental chess game that is any combat sport, is at a VERY high level in top level boxing - this is something that ANY fighter can learn from.

I see what you're saying. But, I would still be surprised if a not even a few of these techniques have been tried out, or atleast dabbled with. Like I said, they want to win and aren't so dumb they'll pass on really obvious stuff that lots of people could tell them about (it's not like interaction between MMA guys and boxers never happens), and like the other guy said, knee to the face, etc.

Dabbled yes, but because they are 'advanced' techniques, with hundreds of years of history behind their development - it takes EXPERIENCE using them to be good at them. It takes more than dabbling. And the knee to the face comment I've already touched on. Just because someone can in theory throw a knee to the face - doesn't mean its likely to happen. Try it out in drills and in sparring and you will see what I mean about how unlikely it is to land a knee to the face on someone just because they are a leaning a few inches in one direction for a half a second, and while they of course are throwing their own strike.

And one other thing, defensive moves like I've talked about... while great ways to get in position to throw a strike... they are also great places to be to execute a takedown, where you KNOW you can put yourself in a position where you have the advantage. Try it out, it works. Jiu jitsu practitioners DO this kind of thing already, but they aren't aware of the tremendous number of other ways it could be done, because they haven't seen it, they've only been taught how to do it in the real of jiu jitsu.

You won't see headbutts much in the ring/cage as they're surprise attacks. Like when someone is mouthing off at you and you headbutt him. You'll do it when he doesn't expect it, and you'll do it because he's too close to be punched effectively.

I have however seen some awesome headbutts in cagefights. One guy fell on his back and the other rushed in to punch his face. The guy that was grounded however managed to get the other one in a lock, to which he responded repeatedly with headbutts. Takes balls to do something crazy like that and it was damn cool to see one crazy fucker headbutt some poor fuck's head into the ground. But as I said, you don't see awesome action like this very often.

What do you mean? Headbutts are very common, I just explained this in my last post. Movie headbutts, almost never happen because they are ineffective.

What do you mean? Headbutts are very common, I just explained this in my last post. Movie headbutts, almost never happen because they are ineffective.

I guess. What I meant to point out is that they're rarely spectacular. Clearly you're more into the strategical aspect of martial arts. I just want to see two guys fuck each other up. Don't really care how they do it. And this is best achieved when all rules are pushed aside and no gloves are involved.

People don't do what doesn't work, and they constantly search for ways to be better fighters. Fights go to decisions more than they used to in the past because the top level guys are getting better and better. Because of improvements in this 'science', the best fighters of today would MURDER the best fighters of 30 or 40 years ago - on average that is.

I think this is the key aspect. All sports evolve, and the participants become better as the sports become more popular and more serious. For example, a new world record was recently set for the marathon, and marathon runners of today could totally pawn runners of 30 years ago. It's because the sport has become more accepted and thus more talented individuals come in. You also have more people taking the training more seriously now.

You see the same thing happening in MMA today. I knew Anderson Silva was something special when I saw his first UFC fight against Chris Leben, and I believe he represents the next generation of fighters... a step up in skill. While guys like Fedor may be very good at fighting, I base that more on talent rather than technique. Fedor is very talented, but he's still playing the same game as his opponents. He's just much better at it than them. Silva seems to be playing a totally different game. I'm not basing this on his record, but on my own observations of his STYLE.

Look back at his fight vs Chris Leben. Leben was flat footed, while Silva was very light, bouncing on the balls of his feet. While Leben was throwing rediculously bad haymakers, Silva kept his punches clean and straight. Not strictly jabs and crosses, but close. While Lebens head was straight and stable, Silva kept his head moving. Don't think UFC fighters have good head movement? Silva does-

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a156/NasDestiny/65zz40.gif

I'll admit that Leben sucks, but fundamentally his style isn't much different from "good" fighters like Griffin or Franklin.

Back in the old days, people thought Royce Gracie had the ultimate style, but years later and now anyone who comes in trying to use pure grappling jiu jitsu like Royce won't go very far. The same thing will happen 10 years from now, styles wills change.

I think you hit it on the nose HARDMAN. Fedor as you mentioned (great example), succeeds because he is TALENTED. He has a lot of raw talent. He is a talent like we have in boxing every few years...a Muhammad Ali, a Ray Leonard, a Roy Jones, a Floyd Mayweather... of course those guys (well some of them) use their talent along with hardcore training and amazing technique. Fedor... as I've said before, when it comes to stand up fighting.. doesn't even have very good technique. But you notice when fighting standing up he is just better than the opposition. He has all the trademarks of a naturally talented fighter.

Silva I see as a great example of the best of the current generation of MMA fighters actually. MMA fighters at first were a mix of guys from tough man contests and guys that were very old by fighting standards but were experts in one area (like Royce Gracie with Jiu Jitsu) only, then it was just guys like Gracie, who had long careers in other combat sports but gave MMA a try because at the high level of competition that older combat sports have (for the reasons I've discussed... being more developed forms of fighting scientifically) they were too old to compete with the young guys. This would be guys like Mirko Filipovic. Then we have guys who have a very solid base in one combat sport... but switfched to MMA early and have been able to develop a MMA style that better incorporates both striking combat sports and grappling combat sports. THIS would be guys like Anderson Silva.

The NEXT generation of MMA fighters... the guys that will come on the scene in the very near future... and will blow away the last generation easily, are guys that started their fighting training in MMA. From the very beginning their thinking in the ring involves all of the aspects of MMA. Guys from the current generation like Anderson Silva... think like say, Thai boxers.. and have to incorporate other styles into their game. But the new guys (And there are already a few of them), are going to have a much better mental game.. as they have ALWAYS had to think about ANY of the things that could happen in an MMA fight. Once these guys hit the scene... the sport will evolve and change much quicker.

To the average fan, like the other guy in this thread that just wants to see blood, bad injuries, and KOs... the sport will seem like its getting boring. There will be a lot more fights going to decision. Its only natural. Fighters will go from being almost entirely offensive minded.. to thinking more about defense... shit, we might even see a counter punch in the UFC by 2010! ;P

And btw, Silva IS one of the fighters (probably the main one) I mention that has a much more complete style than the average MMA fighter.

One of the most interesting ways MMA will change is in the footwork, which you mentioned. Silva bounces on his toes because of his Thai boxing background. To throw powerful punches though, you have to plant your feat more for leverage. In a few years, the best MMA fighters will have just stunning footwork. They will go from being on the balls of their feet, to having their feet planted solidly all in the course of one combination. Footwork is an area that the current, and even moreso the earlier generations of MMA fighters seriously lacks/lacked an understanding of how to use it to great effect. For example... as you said, a lot of MMA fighters fight flat footed. This is why these fighters often are ineffective with kicks. They can't snap or whip them off quick enough when they are flat footed. They can get good leverage on their punches... but you notice than in MMA, as opposed to boxing or Thai boxing and kickboxing... fighters go down from one punch quite often. There are a number of reasons.. such as poor chins from not growing up taking shots to the jaw like fighters with long amateur careers do... but one thing that really contributes to it is bad balance. Also you rarely see MMA fighters who ARE on the balls of their feet use lateral movement EFFECTIVELY. They use it strictly for defense... but you almost never see MMA fighters use it to control the pace of the fight. The fighter that controls when he engages with his opponent, and keeps the fight at a pace HE favors... almost always wins a fight. Fighters very rarely win a fight playing the OTHER guys game. But so often MMA fighters when they are standing up.. NO that the pace they are fighting at, the range, and the timing of the engagements does not favor them, in fact it often doesn't favor either fighter. They don't have an in depth understanding of these concepts and how they work, so they just fight uncomfortably. But an MMA fighter who knows how to throw the other guy off of his game, how to make his opponent fight HIS fight... will be very successful.

In the next 10 years I expect to see amateur MMA organizations and sanctioning bodies pop up all over the place. Once it becomes a popular and common amateur sport, with a few years worth of rankings and champions... MMA will be an olympic sport.

Imagine a fighter with as much natural talent as Fedor... who starts fighting in amateur MMA at the age of say... 11, and by the time he turns pro in his early-mid 20s... he's fought 200 MMA fights, is a multiple time national, championa, as well as having both a Pan American Games and Olympic gold medal.... imagine the day when guys like this are fighting in MMA. Also, there will be more than just one, or maybe 2-3 major MMA promotion. Guys will have independent managers, and there will be many more promotors. The competition between promotors will mean guys fighting under the UFC promotion won't just fight UFC fighters... they will fight whoever the best ranked (ranked by an independent organization... not by the promotors... UFC, WEC, etc etc) and whoever the fans want to see them fight. There will be UFC champions, WEC champions, Elite XC champions.. of course. But there will also be a unified, WORLD champion. There will be more incentive for fighters to train harder, and want to fight the best in the world... because as the UFC won't be able to get away with such terrible contracts with their fighters because of competition from other promotors, fighters will get paid the majority of the money from a fight card - not Dana White.

You know that the base pay for many TOP MMA fighters in the UFC... is sometimes as little as $7500 to fight? The standard UFC contract is $_____ to fight, and the same amount to win. Big championship fights might get the fighters $50,000 or maybe even $100,000... but even some of the champions on the card only get $10,000 to fight and $10,000 to win. Boxers on ESPN2 on WEDNESDAY who headline cards often make that much. And the boxing equivalent of a big UFC main event fighter... that is, someone fighting on HBO - often makes several hundred thousand, or over a million (or several million) - and these guys aren't even necessarily the champions!

When MMA fighters get out from under the heel of the UFC and other similar organizations... the sport will improve a lot, and so will the fighters.

The next ten years is going to be great for MMA.

Another way it will get better.. is that the FANS will appreciate it more. Most guys that claim they are big UFC fans (And they really think they are too, and they love it, I'm not saying they don't..), don't understand any fighting but the stand up (and they don't even really know what's going on during the stand up fighting either!), and probably don't even LIKE watching grappling, wrestling, and submission fighting! But as we have FANS that grow up with watching it, and maybe have friends that do train and fight a bit at their local gym, or maybe do it themselves.... we will have fans that understand and appreciate all aspects of MMA. More fans = more good fights, more money for fighters, therefore more good fighters (more incentive to fight!)...

Good times are coming for MMA!

Right, Fedor wins because he is so talented even though he can't punch properly? :rolleyes:.

Idiot.

Right, Fedor wins because he is so talented even though he can't punch properly? :rolleyes:.

Idiot.

You just got banned for poor trolling dude. I suggest you give up noaw!

Didn't figure you'd actually answer my question and present factual basis for the claim. It's all good though. If you can't dazzle with brilliance, baffle with bullshit eh?

Right, Fedor wins because he is so talented even though he can't punch properly? :rolleyes:.

Idiot.

Being talented has nothing to do with having good orthodox technique.

There aren't a lot of good examples in the MMA world, but I'm sure you're familiar with the boxer Roy Jones Jr. Roy does nothing with proper technique, in an orthodox manner. But his incredible physical gifts allowed him to completely dominate his division (and even move up to heavyweight and beat a top 10 fighter easily) for years and years, completely destroying anyone he fought. Now, he didn't treat his body well, and eventually lost because of it, but his raw talent is what won him fights. Roy didn't have a traditional boxing style, he used misdirection, feints, and 'street' moves to confuse opponents, make them not see punches coming, etc etc.

Floyd Mayweather is another interesting example. Easily the most physically gifted fighter out there right now. Early in his career, he won his fights all on speed and power. He just threw punches faster than his opponents could defend. He had brilliant technique, but didn't need to use it. But as he went up in weight, and went on in years... his body was not what it once was. Instead of declining and losing like many brilliant fighters do.. Floyd began to incorporate great TECHNIQUE into his game, making him near unbeatable in his weight class.

And Psychlonic, your method of arguing (just saying what the other guy says is bullshit without trying to back it up), is pathetic.

There used to be head butts in UFC in the early days. You can see Gracie do it to a few guys if you can find his older fights.

I'm more of a K1 fan

Oh please, I refuse to believe you are this stupid. You're an old hat snoopy so I'll give you more credit than you probably deserve. Military hand to hand training is flat out worthless. How long do you stay in Boot? Not long enough to grasp any sort of real unarmed combat training, it's garbage. I've sparred against these so called "killers" or "Combat Experts". They suck.

As for boxing in MMA, Sam you cant expect MMA fighters to be decent boxers because a lot of boxing just doesn't work in the cage. You mentioned Mike Tyson and I love watching his old fights, but to get in he often went low, WAY low. In mma that would get you a mouth full of grade A knee bone. You can't just be a great boxer, a great wrestler, and a great jiujitsu guy and expect to be a great mma fighter. So much of other martial arts just don't work when put into a chaotic, near anything goes situation.

yeah i grappled this marine and he kept jamming his hand into my septum whenever i had sidemount or full mount and it right pissed me off. choked that nigga out.

Being talented has nothing to do with having good orthodox technique.


Fag. The word orthodox doesn't mean shit in the MMA world because it's constantly changing. Look at the rubber guard system. Oh I forgot you don't know shit about MMA, so nvm you wouldn't know anything about that.

yeah i grappled this marine and he kept jamming his hand into my septum whenever i had sidemount or full mount and it right pissed me off. choked that nigga out.

There is a very dangerous pressure point between your upper lip and your nose. Either he was fucking around with you on that or he's an idiot. But I'm gonna go with you being a troll. It's the logical explanation.

There is a very dangerous pressure point between your upper lip and your nose.

How is it dangerous? I use that point for revival. You've got me interested

How is it dangerous? I use that point for revival. You've got me interested

Dangerous in the sense that it can paralyze or kill you. Press the space between your upper lip and your nose with your thumb as hard as you can and tell me what you feel.

Dangerous in the sense that it can paralyze or kill you. Press the space between your upper lip and your nose with your thumb as hard as you can and tell me what you feel.

Feels pretty unpleasant of course and is obviously a pressure point. I rub this point hard with a knuckle as one way to revive people who have been KO'd. Never had any of them become paralyzed or dead. I think if you tried to strike it hard you would probably just knock some teeth out

Feels pretty unpleasant of course and is obviously a pressure point. I rub this point hard with a knuckle as one way to revive people who have been KO'd. Never had any of them become paralyzed or dead. I think if you tried to strike it hard you would probably just knock some teeth out

It also stimulates your adrenal gland, or so I've been told. That could explain its reviving properties.

However, if you were to strike it full force, it could cause temporary paralysis, shock or even death. Death of course being an extreme case.

Dangerous in the sense that it can paralyze or kill you. Press the space between your upper lip and your nose with your thumb as hard as you can and tell me what you feel.

I've never heard of this. How come this doesn't come up in combat sports more often? People get punched or kicked very heard (a push kick is like getting hit with a baseball bat if its executed properly, that is, as a strike and not just to push), a round kick can generate a lot of power too. Maybe its because before this pressure point has a chance to have any effect, the person is more likely to already have a broken nose or just get knocked out...

I've never heard of this. How come this doesn't come up in combat sports more often? People get punched or kicked very heard (a push kick is like getting hit with a baseball bat if its executed properly, that is, as a strike and not just to push), a round kick can generate a lot of power too. Maybe its because before this pressure point has a chance to have any effect, the person is more likely to already have a broken nose or just get knocked out...

It happens but rarely. A kick or a punch to a pressure point doesn't usually have much effect as the force applied is spread over a larger area. And if I'm not mistaken, it's illegal to manipulate pressure points in most of these sports. Try grabbing someone in their armpits between your index finger, middle finger and your thumb. Shit try it on yourself. Just press two fingers into your armpit as hard as you can. Or try pressing your thumb down at the base of your neck behind your collar bone. Now hit the same place with a stretched middle finger. If you hit it well and hard enough, your corresponding arm will go limp for a while. Of course, doing this on someone during an actual fight, with enough power and precision, is probably the reason why it's not done. It's hard as hell to pull off.

I watch UFC sometimes, that's about it. But I'd enjoy competing more than watching it. I'd been watching UFC since it was first created. Sometimes it's extremely boring. Probably not usually as boring as a "no rules" fight since most of those guys don't know what they're doing And there's plenty of blood in UFC as it is, so I wouldn't say it's watered down.. The couture/gonzaga fight was very bloody. Blood raining everywhere. It was kind of like a headbutt, except much better and more impressive... And I remember one where a guys skull was visible after a straight punch to the forehead.

I don't watch it for the blood though. I just like to see good knockouts and good skills and freakish speed/reflexes and coordination. I don't like fights that take forever or don't have much action, like the vera/silvia fight or the werdum/arlovski fight.

I am a big UFC fan, but i am pretty new too it, ive been watching and following it for about a year. i think it is the best sport and one of the most exciting sports(way better then baseball and soccer), i personally think MMA should be a olympic event. My all time favourtie fighters are Georges St.Pierre, Forrest Griffin and BJ Penn. I think MMA has jus started becoming mainstream, and soon it will be played on Primetime TV on a somewhat regulalar basis. I discovered it by seeing an episode of " the ultimate fighter" and fell in love with it. i think it will become bigger than boxing . MMA is big now but i think it will get BIGGER. PS. Kimbo Slice is a big phony and is VERY over rated. a heavyweight bein knocked out in like 20 seconds by a 205? HA! HA!

I've been following MMA for about five years. I started watching old UFCs on TV, when TK, Barnett, Rizzo, Rutten, Randleman, Frank Shamrock were still fighting in the org. Then I switched to Pride because I absolutely loved watching Wanderlei Silva's utter violence. It kinda sucks nowadays though. I find most of the new fighters boring. Especially that Machida faggot. And my man Silva has been losing a lot. I don't know if I'll still be watching in a couple of years.

I enjoy MMA every now and then. To me,it's fun to watch in small doses,that's about it. I'm not a sports fan.

I did though,read through most of this thread and I have to say that my respect for sambob has grown with the postings in here.

Interesting thing about sambob, he brags about being tall, about 6'5 IIRC, like snoopy. He's also pretentious, like snoopy, fooling people into thinking he knows what he's talking about. And like snoopy, he e-dated and e-flirts with obese girls(kate, yoyobek, etc) and likes jazz music, like snoopy.

Quite a coincidence. I think they could date each other. They could teach each other sweet moves in bed and then post about it on totse. CarbonB is the same way, bragging about being tall, being into mma and fooling people into thinking he knows what he's talking about, flirting with fat chicks online, etc. Only difference is, the fat chicks reject carbonb but not sambob or snoopy LOL. Maybe there's some kind of connection between MMA and pretentious bullshit, and fat chicks.

Interesting thing about sambob, he brags about being tall, about 6'5 IIRC, like snoopy. He's also pretentious, like snoopy, fooling people into thinking he knows what he's talking about. And like snoopy, he e-dated and e-flirts with obese girls(kate, yoyobek, etc) and likes jazz music, like snoopy.

Quite a coincidence. I think they could date each other. They could teach each other sweet moves in bed and then post about it on totse. CarbonB is the same way, bragging about being tall, being into mma and fooling people into thinking he knows what he's talking about, flirting with fat chicks online, etc. Only difference is, the fat chicks reject carbonb but not sambob or snoopy LOL. Maybe there's some kind of connection between MMA and pretentious bullshit, and fat chicks.

I'm 5'7. Never bragged about about how "tall" I am. And I used to make a webcomic with Yoyobek and shared stories. If you call that e-dating, moar pwrz to u I guess.

I'm sure I just was just hallucinating when I thought you said you're about 6'6. I do recall you saying you'd move to england and marry yoyobek at one point, though. But I guess it never worked out. sambob also wanted to move to nz to be with kate, but that never worked out for him either.

I understand that people with npd often seek homosexual relationships with people that remind them of themselves. And a big part of npd is pathological lying and pretentiousness...

But anyway that's all off topic. I've met a lot of wiggers that thought they'd be the next big thing in mma, and completely ignored any points anyone made as to why they don't know what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to mma. And while sambob isn't quite a wigger, carbonb is, and the pretentiousness is still there. So there must be some type of common connection. it seems to be a magnet for this type of person. As the popularity grows, more and more pretentious dipshits flock to it.

I'm sure I just was just hallucinating when I thought you said you're about 6'6. I do recall you saying you'd move to england and marry yoyobek at one point, though. But I guess it never worked out. sambob also wanted to move to nz to be with kate, but that never worked out for him either.

I understand that people with npd often seek homosexual relationships with people that remind them of themselves. And a big part of npd is pathological lying and pretentiousness...

But anyway that's all off topic. I've met a lot of wiggers that thought they'd be the next big thing in mma, and completely ignored any points anyone made as to why they don't know what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to mma. And while sambob isn't quite a wigger, carbonb is, and the pretentiousness is still there. So there must be some type of common connection. it seems to be a magnet for this type of person. As the popularity grows, more and more pretentious dipshits flock to it.

I'm already married and you were probably huffing jenkem when you read something about me being 6'6 and going to England to "be with" Yoyobek. I don't know who the hell carbonb is. I only know sambob from irc and he's okay. I don't know what he did that took the jelly out of your doughnut, but you were probably asking for it with that kind of attitude.

I sense a lot of hate in your post. I don't know who you are but if you're angry at me for closing a thread of yours or "getting you banned", I'll have you know that I haven't been a moderator here for over 2 years now. Can you really keep a grudge for so long over such trivial stuff?

I'm already married and you were probably huffing jenkem when you read something about me being 6'6 and going to England to "be with" Yoyobek. I don't know who the hell carbonb is. I only know sambob from irc and he's okay. I don't know what he did that took the jelly out of your doughnut, but you were probably asking for it with that kind of attitude.

I sense a lot of hate in your post. I don't know who you are but if you're angry at me for closing a thread of yours or "getting you banned", I'll have you know that I haven't been a moderator here for over 2 years now. Can you really keep a grudge for so long over such trivial stuff?

You're denying things you've said in the past but that's alright, you may not even be able to remember because you get drunk so much and post things while drunk. But I have no reason to hate either of you. So you're not sensing hate. I don't even know either of you, I just like to point out things about people that I think are hilarious when those people are being pretentious. I dislike pretentiousness. And yes, you had some of my troll accounts banned over 6 years ago. But they're just troll accounts, so there's no grudge. It didn't bother me, the purpose was to be annoying enough to have them banned. You can have this one banned too, I won't mind. Funniest part is, I've contributed a lot to this site and even when you tried to troll me it never worked. I like you because you're funny though, and sambob is not funny, nor is carbonb. All I see from them is pretentious bullshit in their discussions or arguments. I think they're valuable for discussion but the pretentiousness is a bit annoying.

Boxing or doing muay thai or mma in your local gym won't make you an authority on the subjects. Nor will watching it on tv. And it won't mean you're good at it. People should prove themselves before spewing such shit.

It's been a terrible week so I'm going to be quiet for a while.

You're denying things you've said in the past but that's alright, you may not even be able to remember because you get drunk so much and post things while drunk. But I have no reason to hate either of you. So you're not sensing hate. I don't even know either of you, I just like to point out things about people that I think are hilarious when those people are being pretentious. I dislike pretentiousness. And yes, you had some of my troll accounts banned over 6 years ago. But they're just troll accounts, so there's no grudge. It didn't bother me, the purpose was to be annoying enough to have them banned. You can have this one banned too, I won't mind. Funniest part is, I've contributed a lot to this site and even when you tried to troll me it never worked. I like you because you're funny though, and sambob is not funny, nor is carbonb. All I see from them is pretentious bullshit in their discussions or arguments. I think they're valuable for discussion but the pretentiousness is a bit annoying.

Boxing or doing muay thai or mma in your local gym won't make you an authority on the subjects. Nor will watching it on tv. And it won't mean you're good at it. People should prove themselves before spewing such shit.

It's been a terrible week so I'm going to be quiet for a while.

Care to provide links to these things I've said in the past? The archives go all the way to 2003. Oh, I thought so. Another silly attention seeker that's full of shit like usual and thinks he provides "contribution" to this place with their annoying retarded posts. Can you give me an example of your contribution? Donated money recently? Technology? Text files? Code? What? Oh, you mean silly posts? Plenty of that to go around with. That's not cotribution. That's just getting in the way and being annoying. Welcome to my ignore list, dipshit.

Seems that honesty is the best way to troll people sometimes. It certainly made snoopy resort to the ignore feature like a little girl storming off in a temper tantrum. It's a good thing too, because now he won't keep going off topic.

Seems that honesty is the best way to troll people sometimes. It certainly made snoopy resort to the ignore feature like a little girl storming off in a temper tantrum. It's a good thing too, because now he won't keep going off topic.

I never use the ignore feature. I found that I always clicked to view the post anyway

If you don't believe that the defensive techniques I've discussed can work under MMA rules, come to the gym with me and we can work on it. Maybe Das_Troll and I can hook up sometime and work on it, that would be a cool video for the forum.

where you at?

I am in TN and if you are ever in the area I would happily go a couple rounds with you and see how well your theories work when you start bobbing and weaving and I begin kicking your legs until I can close the gap.

on a dif note I have to agree entirely with whoever said

street fighting>MMA

all the rules that were created to keep it safe have basically made MMA just another sport, and not a form of true combat.

full contact, no rounds,no rules, no gloves, no time limit.

ending only by a DOCTOR throwing in the towel, KO, or tapout.

that would be a true combat sport.

double dose:
If we didn't have rules, then we would have some assmonkey that was a professional nut kicker win all teh sweet matches.

or professional eye gouger.

or professional fish hooker.

Get it?

Do you even know why there are rounds?

Do you like watching exhausted men fall on each other 'cause they can't get a break in a fight?

Do you liek man-sex?

These rules have evolved out of necessity. I'm sure it would be cool to see someone rip off a testicle, but I'm glad it is illegal in MMA.

it would be cool to see someone rip off a testicle.


End of the world type MMA type shit.

double dose:
If we didn't have rules, then we would have some assmonkey that was a professional nut kicker win all teh sweet matches.

or professional eye gouger.

or professional fish hooker.

Get it?

Do you even know why there are rounds?

Do you like watching exhausted men fall on each other 'cause they can't get a break in a fight?

Do you liek man-sex?

These rules have evolved out of necessity. I'm sure it would be cool to see someone rip off a testicle, but I'm glad it is illegal in MMA.


I understand that completely, all I am saying is "its not real fighting" and the rules have slowly gone downhill. look at UFC 1. and as much as some tactics are dangerous, that also means they are effective. if a "professional nut kicker" proved he could win fight after fight with a kick to the balls how is that any different from doing it with a kick to the head?

If a "professional fish hooker" taps people with fish hooks why is that different than an armbar?

and just for the record an inside heel hook which is a completely legal hold is more likely to cause serious injury than a nut kick or a fishhook.

and to bring up an often forgotten point, the more effective the attack, the less time in the ring, the less long term wear on the body.

if I grab your balls and pull you will probably tap before I remove them. just like you will tap to a kamura before your arm is permantely fucked. and I still believe a DOCTOR should be able to stop the fight, examine the fighters, and call a fight.

and just so everybody knows. the reason for the rules isn't safety. it is marketability. They had to implement certain guidelines so they could get sanctioned. nobody is gonna host a no holds barred pit fight in NYC for millions of dollars. if they gave a damn about safety they would remove the logos from inside the ring. they get covered with sweat and create a slipping hazard.

Sambob if you could please turn your long boring paragraphs into short hard hitting, moving interesting paragraphs i think alot more people would read them.

Boxing is a big part off mma, but MMA fighters dont have the time too master (as you would like sambob) boxing. They have too learn too fight on the ground aswell. Theres so much more too learn in mma. And then they have too be fit, all there cardio work etc. They are the COMPLETE fighters.
Thats why there called the Modern Day Gladiator.

Yes, i am a fucking fan. Liddel and Rampage are my favourites. For obvious reasons, they are the most exciting and there styles are sick. I like a heap off other fighters and look forward too seeing them fight aswell.

Note: I'm a boxing fan aswell, but mma is much more exciting and much more skillful.

I watch it sometimes, but I'm not a huge fan. When its good its good, but when its bad its unbearable for me. As a fighter myself I enjoy watching it as I enjoy watching any other combat sport, that is watching it from the fighter's perspective. Watching the mental game thats going on between each fighter. This of course leads me to one of the two things that I dislike about MMA.

Fighting requires a very strong mind. You win most easily by knowing what your opponent is going to do to lead off, and what he will do in reaction to everything you could do. So for example... if you know he will try to come over the top of your jab with a right hand, but will lunch forward, you could feint the jab, slip the right hand and come up to his chin with a right uppercut. Or you could jab, take a half step back then go over his right hand with a left hook. This is the kind of thing that is going through a fighter's head as he fights.

A lot of MMA fighters though, don't have the long experience fighting hundreds of rounds in sparring and amateur fights that say, professional boxers do. So they are not used to thinking like this. Many MMA fighters don't seem to even think about what their opponent will do at all. If they don't, it just becomes a contest of who has the faster hands, who is stronger, who is slicker on the ground, who knows jiu-jitsu, etc etc. Could be fun to watch, but for me is less interesting.

Also, due to the current level of competition in MMA - you simply don't have to be that good at certain things to excel. There isn't a single MMA fighter I can think of right now that can box that well. I don't even mean boxing in terms of trying to start a career in the sport - but just that MMA fighters in general lack boxing skills. Both western boxing and Thai boxing.

Something as simple as throwing a punch. There are MANY MMA fighters that don't know how to throw a punch properly, that is straight, short, and without losing balance. One should be able to in theory string together a combination of strikes (including kicks and knees) that is infinitely long, and not ever get off balance. I don't mean just shadowboxing, but in the context of a fight - that is, in the ring. You see guys shadowboxing in pre-fight introductions that are taped for MMA promotions all the time, and they throw properly and don't lose their balance. But when fight time comes, these same people seem to only be able to throw big looping hooks, haymakers, and if they try to throw straight punches, they do so very poorly.

Also, MMA fighters have almost no upper body movement. I've never seen an MMA fighter with good upper body movement. And considering very very few MMA fighters block strikes well with their gloves and forearms - upper body movement would be very useful.

What I mean by upper body movement is things like head movement, like what Mike Tyson did at the beginning of his pro career for example is just ducking and dodging, but if you move your entire upper body as you move your head - and lean towards your opponent and to one side - this is called slipping a punch. When you slip a punch, it not only keeps you from getting hit of course, but it also puts you in position so that you are inside the opponent's defense and can throw and land your own strikes without being hindered.

Here is an example of dodging, from Mike Tyson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6zlaIl0yh0

Watch at 1:35 to see him using head movement. Notice even when he starts punching, he still moves his head.

Watch any of his early fights in the 80s and you'll see that he has great defense, but he never has to block or parry punches with his gloves, he does it all by moving his head.. though he uses his entire body to do so. He ducks, bobs, weaves... the whole works. Its beautiful. Mike Tyson in the 80, despite being known just for his punching power and speed, was one of the best defensive fighters of the era.

For even better examples, watch from about 2:00 to about 2:35. Great stuff.

Another kind of upper body movement was favored by people like James Toney and Floyd Mayweather Jr. Here is Floyd in his own words explaining (in the ring) how he uses defense. What Floyd does is turn his body to the side, to present a smaller target to hit, then uses his left should to help defend, and holds his right glove up to block, parry, and catch punches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqOJp9Wmayo

This short highlight video shows some of how he uses those techniques in a fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stR131FoxPM

Upper body movement can mean other things as well.

Great Italian boxer Nicolino Loche, used upper body movement to dodge punches as well. He was a master of using a little energy possible to execute defensive maneuvers. He could stand up straight with his gloves down, and let his opponents throw at will and just dodge every punch, but he would only dodge so far that his face was maybe an inch at most from his opponent's gloves when they'd throw, but thats as far as you need to be.

Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEKHMUCh8k

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about do you dude?