I'm a philosophy major and have become obsessed with every aspect of human understanding since I discovered philosophy in high school...
This what I've conjured up as a possible solution to human potential and surpassing Plato's cave...

The history of post Socratic philosophy (which is where philosophy really started) all began with metaphysical inquiries about the world. This trend continued up until David Home destroyed metaphysics with ultimate empirical skepticism and his theory of causality.

When we adopt ultimate skepticism or relativism and take our conception of the world and it's meanings to the absolute reduction ad absurdum, we find that "we can know nothing" or "there are no absolute truths"...Both of which are paradoxes. Socrates responded to the first one (meno's paradox) by claiming that you can know of something when you know nothing because of "divine intervention" and the theory of recollection (the soul being the source of truth)...The other one is unanswerable, no absolute truth implies that there is an absolute truth (that being no truth)...extremely contradictory. When taking knowledge to it's extreme like that we find that all logic is founded on a contradiction of relativism and no truth. What does this mean? Either the world is relative and man creates his own values, or there is something unknown, innate ideas so to speak.

Now, innate ideas have been disproved because how do you explain their origin without god? (assume an atheist position). You can't it seems through our current perceptions (sight, sound, smell, taste, touch)...However, the very fact that we are constantly being led to and understand some kind of "unexplainable truth" must exist for some reason...We know that our current knowledge is founded on a paradox, there obviously must be some greater form of understanding we cannot comprehend. How can we know things and make conclusions which are verified time and time again (math/scientific laws for example) without some sort of truth? Obviously this conception of truth must have some logically coherent backing. After all how can we get closer to understanding if everything we base our reasoning on is false? There must be another unseen basis. I know this is some what of a leap of faith, but go with it. Why would we assume truth and reason if there was none? Where does this metaphysical idea come from?? Within.

The whole idea behind Platonism is reaching the world of true forms. A place where every object in the world has become the greatest essence of itself (perfection, so to speak). This world is only obtained through some sort of indescribable knowledge or perception which can only be experienced, not communicated after the fact. Once obtained, the world is so intense one cannot last so long to be there due to the familiarity with the false world which we call real. We come back and see the world differently. This world of pure form and meaning can be some what experienced through drug induced hallucinations, which vastly increase perception and understanding according to Aldous Huxley and many other respected thinkers. I personally have taken LSD and it seems to enlighten your world of meaning. You no longer begin to view things for their biological or social value, you begin to value things IN AND OF THEMSELVES...Just like Plato and Socrates described...You see things in their true essence...Like the world of forms...

Now, Descartes came along later in history and claimed that the path to true understanding of metaphysics lies in the connection of body and mind, if one can unlock all mental potential, perhaps they can view reality as it really is, without being concerned for biological or social meaning...True understanding of the world.

Descartes believed this mind/body connection lied in the Pineal Gland due to its position in relation to the left and right side of the brain. He was proved wrong later as the position held no value......

The drug known as DMT (Dimethyltryptamine) is found in millions of different organism and is proven to give the most powerful psychedelic experiences known to man, so intense, it transports you to another world as described by users..........Now, here's where things start getting interesting, really interesting.......

It turns our that DMT is thought to be naturally produced in our brains, during REM sleep and has been hypothesized as what causes our dreams....And of course, where gland produces this substance? The Pineal Gland. Even more fascinating is the Pineal Gland has, for a fact, the same structures as an eyeball and is considered to be a third eye...An eye that views the world in a different way, a more complex way. The Pineal Gland is also hypothesized as what's responsible for near death experiences, transporting us to another world in the face of death, however, because we don't die we're brought back with knowledge of another conception.....

The course of human evolution and understanding has been nothing more than the development of the human mind and perception, along with the overcoming of animal thought (biological instincts)....Now, what if unlocking this third eye is our next step as humans? What if this expansion of perception will lead us to a new realm of understanding, revealing the answers to the true mysteries of life?What if the after life is nothing more than this induced hallucination which appears an eternity...Or what if death is the complete mental takeover of a new perception caused by physical death transporting us into a new world of metaphysical properties and human thought????

DMT users have often claimed experiences reminiscent of such ideas...After taking acid, I had a very similar experience, I've changed my method of action and become more in touch with myself and limited what is considered vice and increased what one would call "personal virtue"...What if the door to the meaning of life lies within and DMT is the key?

What do you think of this? Am I on to something?

Highly unlikely. People can incurr hapiness through work, alcohol or sex. There are principal ways of getting high and each is very different. Quit taking acid, and stop citing so many cases, cite one, so that you may lower your post count.

If a thought can be drug induced then shouldn't that drug produce the same thought in different people?

Wouldn't it be more correct to say that the drug removed the inhibitions on the thought? That it kept a person from recognizing that the thought mad no sense, a drug uninhibited thought.

DT

If a thought can be drug induced then shouldn't that drug produce the same thought in different people?

Wouldn't it be more correct to say that the drug removed the inhibitions on the thought? That it kept a person from recognizing that the thought mad no sense, a drug uninhibited thought.

DT

The thing is that people experience a relatively similar experience on acid (its the object being perceived, not the drug that changes the trip)...

HOWEVER, on DMT, users all experience encounters with similarly described beings...The consistency in DMT trips has been noted.

It doesn't have to similar for it to be signal of coming closer. DMT won't answer the question but it will certainly get you closer it appears....

HOWEVER, on DMT, users all experience encounters with similarly described beings...The consistency in DMT trips has been noted.

Anecdotally?

Anecdotal?

Yes but it was still done in a scientific study where users repeatedly described encounters with "insect like alien beings"

To be honest I think I figured out my own question. I think drugs like DMT/LSD simply alter your perception of the world allowing you to further comprehend the subjectivity of the world and it's relationship to the individual mental image. Although these drugs can lead you to the door , I doubt they can open the door itself, something only obtainable through...I have no idea? But not drugs in themselves. Perhaps knowledge or death? Those seem to be my two best bets.

However, psychedelics can help in the process. However, it is just interesting to note on the consistency of the pineal gland in philosophy and this DMT/Pineal gland connection. If it means anything I don't know.

i'd want to test adding LSD to the pineal gland.

The thing is that people experience a relatively similar experience on acid (its the object being perceived, not the drug that changes the trip)...

HOWEVER, on DMT, users all experience encounters with similarly described beings...The consistency in DMT trips has been noted.

It doesn't have to similar for it to be signal of coming closer. DMT won't answer the question but it will certainly get you closer it appears....

SN's thread in BLTC about DMT elves shows that there have been people that never encounter elves or aliens or insects while on DMT. Psychedelics produce similar thoughts because they act upon the same receptors (in the case of DMT, it's some 5-HT receptor, probably 5-HT2A, with perhaps some slight assistance from MAOs) but since everybody has a different brain chemistry and variable amounts of (variably sensitive) 5-HT receptors, everybody's experience is different. Further, since brain development (and even epigenetic development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics):eek:) is effected by environment, there is no scientific study that would be able to determine if 2 subjects (they'd have to be identical twins raised in an identical, and preferably minimalist environment; thus there are moral concerns) could have the same experience (problems of subjective descriptions likely brought on by different integration styles aside). This is one of the main reasons why I want to go into neurochemistry.

Eventually, the science of tweaking receptor frequency and sensitivity by chemical or mechanical means (for one of the best interdisciplinary neuro-philosophical reads on this, see The Hedonist Imperative (http://www.hedweb.com/hedethic/hedonist.htm)) will allow this to happen with radically different (albeit neurochemically "enhanced") patients whose only difference will be integrating the experience. Alas, as I've said before, there will never be a certain conclusion as to visuals and emotional effects of psychedelics. The closest science will ever come will be to say "2 neurochemically identical patients were given an identical dose of a psychoactive. Their receptor firings were identical [even my scientific worldview disputes that this would be the case, but it could!], thus they had the same experience". And thus we come to my next reason for my fascination with neurochemistry--determinism. If such a situation could be achieved where the preceding statement is true (and not "more or less true"; every last chemical imbalance would have to be either totally correlated or explainable by one of the random processes of molecular physics, perhaps Brownian motion or the interference of a stray molecule would do the trick)--then it would be the ultimate triumph of science. The final frontier for the libertarian is the mind. Physics, chemistry, and (increasingly) biology have all given no quarter to the philosophy of free will and the last stand of this idealism is the mind. With enough computing power, biology will show how initial neurochemical structure is predetermined. Neurochemistry will then ally with psychology to monitor minute changes in structure and function of the brain until a "genome" of experiences and corresponding neural changes (they need not be 1:1, but such relations would necessarily need to be explained by individual genetic differences) is discovered--there will naturally be a similar process with biology and epigenetics. And then, with a few advances in chemistry (geneticists still disgracefully refer to mutations as "random", this will eventually be explained by physical interactions) the God of the gaps argument of the libertarians will be snuffed out once and for all and science will enter a new age of not "science", but engineering. What will come after this is for the philosopher and the historian to describe.


There is a distinct glut of parentheses in this post. :)

I'm a philosophy major and have become obsessed with every aspect of human understanding since I discovered philosophy in high school...


Sorry if this if off-topic, but I was a phil major too. Advice: make it your minor and make your major something applicable to a job. A philosophy degree is about as good as a high school degree. Now I'm going back to get a master's in something useful in the real world. Still...philosophy classes are the best.

Sorry if this if off-topic, but I was a phil major too. Advice: make it your minor and make your major something applicable to a job. A philosophy degree is about as good as a high school degree. Now I'm going back to get a master's in something useful in the real world. Still...philosophy classes are the best.

I'm a philosophy minor (thanks Entheogenic!), but to get to major standing I'll probably need to spend (only) another semester at college, but this will have to be on my own tab because my scholarship runs out after 8 semesters. What do you think? Is it worth pursuing one of my life's dreams even though I'll need to spend more time at school for it? Oh, I'll have Chemistry and Biology majors done in those 4 years as well as a business minor. I'd leave the business minor (because I fucking hate business), but it's, as you said, "applicable to a job". :(

Sorry if this if off-topic, but I was a phil major too. Advice: make it your minor and make your major something applicable to a job. A philosophy degree is about as good as a high school degree. Now I'm going back to get a master's in something useful in the real world. Still...philosophy classes are the best.

I want to be a teacher and a writer (professor ideally, my Mom is a poly-sci professor at University of Virginia) so worst case scenario I'll just wind up teaching at a private school which I could see myself really enjoying. I'm trying to work my way into the academic field so I think I'll be fine with my major.

SN's thread in BLTC about DMT elves shows that there have been people that never encounter elves or aliens or insects while on DMT.

Yeah I've come to the conclusion that psychedelics simply alter your preconceived notions of reality and break down social values/assumptions...Something of great importance, but I'm clearly over-estimating their ability.

I want to be a teacher and a writer (professor ideally, my Mom is a poly-sci professor at University of Virginia) so worst case scenario I'll just wind up teaching at a private school which I could see myself really enjoying. I'm trying to work my way into the academic field so I think I'll be fine with my major.

You know what totsean is getting his doctorate in Philosophy with an intention to teach at the University level (at Columbia no less)?!

re-ap.blogspot.com

That's his blog. Tell him nshanin sent ya, interesting fellow.

Yeah I've come to the conclusion that psychedelics simply alter your preconceived notions of reality and break down social values/assumptions...Something of great importance, but I'm clearly over-estimating their ability.

If you look at the receptors that psychoactives affect, you'll find that neurons related to cognition aren't touched by psychedelics. There must be something more basic than this going on. I'll go into detail later, I've got a political forum to go to right now.

You know what totsean is getting his doctorate in Philosophy with an intention to teach at the University level (at Columbia no less)?!

re-ap.blogspot.com

That's his blog. Tell him nshanin sent ya, interesting fellow.

Appreciate it, thanks.


If you look at the receptors that psychoactives affect, you'll find that neurons related to cognition aren't touched by psychedelics. There must be something more basic than this going on. I'll go into detail later, I've got a political forum to go to right now.

...I'll look forward to hearing more about that...

I want to be a teacher and a writer (professor ideally, my Mom is a poly-sci professor at University of Virginia) so worst case scenario I'll just wind up teaching at a private school which I could see myself really enjoying. I'm trying to work my way into the academic field so I think I'll be fine with my major.

That's really cool man, I was thinking of doing the same thing until I realized I completely hated public speaking hehe. Not to mention, I doubt I'd be a great teacher, I'd rather just debate and scold hahaha.

this is quite interesting.

you have to remember though, drugs simply disinhibit cognition.

this is quite interesting.

you have to remember though, drugs simply disinhibit cognition.

Which in turn can lead to bursts of creativity...

Cognition is nothing more than a socially programmed train of ideas founded on illogical assumptions and values. Taking psychedelic drugs destroys your social and biological concern, leaving you only with your true self and your true character.

Yes but it was still done in a scientific study where users repeatedly described encounters with "insect like alien beings"

I assume you're referring to Strassman's work? In his studies people did seem to encounter similar beings but then all of the subjects in Strassman's study had a similar background. They were all Americans, all experienced users of psychedelics, all mentally stable. They came into contact with aliens, space 'equipment', reptiles and insects iirc but these sorts of things have been recurring features of films, novels, artwork for years. Aliens, insects and giant reptiles have become an embodiment of fear in our culture. The emotions we attach to these things could even have some evolutionary basis because it's surely no coincidence that most of us fear cockroaches and parasites.

It would be interesting to do a proper controlled study to determine what impact cultural background has on the kinds of beings that the subjects come in contact with. Would tribes in South America encounter green aliens and mechanical elves? Somehow I doubt it.

I assume you're referring to Strassman's work? In his studies people did seem to encounter similar beings but then all of the subjects in Strassman's study had a similar background. They were all Americans, all experienced users of psychedelics, all mentally stable. They came into contact with aliens, space 'equipment', reptiles and insects iirc but these sorts of things have been recurring features of films, novels, artwork for years. Aliens, insects and giant reptiles have become an embodiment of fear in our culture. The emotions we attach to these things could even have some evolutionary basis because it's surely no coincidence that most of us fear cockroaches and parasites.

It would be interesting to do a proper controlled study to determine what impact cultural background has on the kinds of beings that the subjects come in contact with. Would tribes in South America encounter green aliens and mechanical elves? Somehow I doubt it.

Yeah, I think you're right. A trip is completely relative to the observer.

So, what you're saying is, heaven is in fact a DMT trip?

Pretty cool, but I think the Christians might be upset...

DMT... The dream generated by a chemical realsed for death... Lasts 10 minutes... In the dream world.... That could be forever.

Which in turn can lead to bursts of creativity...

Cognition is nothing more than a socially programmed train of ideas founded on illogical assumptions and values. Taking psychedelic drugs destroys your social and biological concern, leaving you only with your true self and your true character.

Could you elaborate on what your "true self and character" would be?

I don't think you can say that taking a psychedelic destroys your social .. or biological concerns.

If a person didn't have social or biological concerns (which seems to me to be pretty much everything..) they wouldn't have a reason to be alive (except "higher purpose"...) A 'cut off' point seems to be a likely defense mechanism (for one possible reaction to an experience.)

I believe most hallucinations to be autosymbolic. As such, during a trip, I believe that cultural conditioning and subconscious desires are represented through the senses. It seems likely that there would be a level of cognitive and emotional repression present (not to mention a whole plethora of other defense mechanisms), as well as an inability to comprehend the underlying visual representations of meaning. Which is really just synesthesia.

Tracers, depth perception, as well as the perception of body size, are often directly representational of experience. I've always found that tracers have been easier to interpret intellectually. There are a lot of similarities between hypnagogia and psychedelia.

These sensory effects, when combined with cognitive experience (set and setting) compose new, brilliant combinations of experience and defense mechanisms.

Empathy is definately worth mentioning, as its far reaching roots probably dictate the direction of the experience on multiple levels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism

It seems that Level 1 and 2 defense mechanisms are most commonly employed during bad trips. Level 3 being less common and less effective than usual, and level 4 serving as a nice behavioural summation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_experience#Levels_of_psychedelic_exper ience relation? shrug.

All of these inter-related effects work on each other in realtime and compound to create an experience which releases you from culture, but what about genetics?

It's not really as if you can "release" yourself from culture, or genetics. Sure, you can fuck with the underlying constructs, cognition and emotional states, but it doesn't seem like there's much to gain by going feral.

Something I've always found extremely interesting is that people tend to project onto their own faces when looking in mirrors. A shifting combination of projection, identification, distortion and idealization. All due to what? Increased creativity, autosymbolic synesthesia and empathy towards yourself?


I have no definite factual backing for any of this other than a hunch. Oo-ra.

If you look at the receptors that psychoactives affect, you'll find that neurons related to cognition aren't touched by psychedelics. There must be something more basic than this going on. I'll go into detail later, I've got a political forum to go to right now.

Can't wait.

Could you elaborate on what your "true self and character" would be?

Ego-death. You stop caring about how people perceive you and how you "ought to act"...You act true to yourself...

I don't think you can say that taking a psychedelic destroys your social .. or biological concerns.

Well obviously you can't entirely destroy both...But for the most part your body takes care of itself and you focus more on your ideas and thoughts rather than what you must do to survive and "fit in"....The body (regardless of what we think) doesn't need self-awareness (consciousness) to function properly, I found that when I trip I'm physically fine, my mind just goes into more interesting things and stops caring about shit like "How do i look"...In terms of getting by safely, the body doesn't need the mind to do that.


It simply realigns your focus. "The ability to see past what is biologically and socially useful"- Aldous Huxley (describing Mescaline)


If a person didn't have social or biological concerns (which seems to me to be pretty much everything..) they wouldn't have a reason to be alive (except "higher purpose"...) A 'cut off' point seems to be a likely defense mechanism (for one possible reaction to an experience.)

You find meaning in what you want to do. Look, as much as I would like to describe the experience to you there is only one way to fully comprehend it, by experiencing it. I would say it's like experiencing a purpose beyond what we can see with our current perspective.

, but it doesn't seem like there's much to gain by going feral.

"No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself"-Nietzsche

I think the ability to act true to yourself without the sub-conscious influence from others and the removal of the omnipresent feeling of "I want to fit in" is the only way to truly be happy. I'm not saying leave everyone, I'm just saying that psychedelics help you be true to yourself.

In essence, isn't your true self and character as true as you know it to be? Isn't that something which is also defined by cultural conditioning and experience? I argue only on the basis that the premise of the conclusion may be erroneous.




Ahhh... back to neurology.

In essence, isn't your true self and character as true as you know it to be? Isn't that something which is also defined by cultural conditioning and experience? I argue only on the basis that the premise of the conclusion may be erroneou

True. Character is like an onion, all layers, no core.

However, some actions are more conducive to well being and happiness than others, regardless of foundation. People's dreams are usually left unfulfilled due to pointless social concerns. I'm not trying to be free of social influence, just the unwanted influence...Which would be doing things you despise and hate simply for acceptance....This isn't the only reason why I like psychedelics, they're infinitely more complex reasons for tripping, but this is the one we're talking about at the moment.

However, some actions are more conducive to well being and happiness than others, regardless of foundation. People's dreams are usually left unfulfilled due to pointless social concerns. I'm not trying to be free of social influence, just the unwanted influence...Which would be doing things you despise and hate simply for acceptance....This isn't the only reason why I like psychedelics, they're infinitely more complex reasons for tripping, but this is the one we're talking about at the moment.


The actions that lead to the most well being and happiness aren't always the right ones to take.

"No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself"-Nietzsche

Would you be willing to pay with your happiness and well being? What of the well being of those you love?

The actions that lead to the most well being and happiness aren't always the right ones to take.

"No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself"-Nietzsche

Would you be willing to pay with your happiness and well being? What of the well being of those you love?

Those two statements contradict one another....

So I'll answer both independently....


First one: All that matters in life is love of life/self (or happiness, same concept different term). What is right is what leads you to unlocking your potential (which results in love/happiness)

Second: Living for yourself and being free are synonymous with happiness. It isn't one or the other, it's both together.

Humanistic Ethics


Nietzsche is considered the most misunderstood/misinterpreted philosopher in history. He comes off as this nihilistic pessimist, when in reality he is the ultimate humanist (individually), his entire foundation revolves around love of self and one's place in the world. He simply rejects the "herd mentality" (which is the norm in Western society for code of conduct) so he comes off as a pessimist.

Those two statements contradict one another....

So I'll answer both independently....


First one: All that matters in life is love of life/self (or happiness, same concept different term). What is right is what leads you to unlocking your potential (which results in love/happiness)

Second: Living for yourself and being free are synonymous with happiness. It isn't one or the other, it's both together.

Humanistic Ethics


Nietzsche is considered the most misunderstood/misinterpreted philosopher in history. He comes off as this nihilistic pessimist, when in reality he is the ultimate humanist (individually), his entire foundation revolves around love of self and one's place in the world. He simply rejects the "herd mentality" (which is the norm in Western society for code of conduct) so he comes off as a pessimist.

Well, can't argue that. :D

Can't wait.

Ah, forget it; nobody knows how psychs really work.

Ah, forget it; nobody knows how psychs really work.

Well when you say it like that...

Well when you say it like that...

What does that mean?

What does that mean?

That I was interested. Is the source of your data commonly avaliable?

That I was interested. Is the source of your data commonly avaliable?

No.

No.

Well when you say it that way...

Well when you say it that way...

What do you mean?