How would we know? Would anyone really believe him?

I was thinking about something that happened to me when I was about 10 that made me wonder about this. I was in (Catholic) church with my mom, and a guy walked in dressed like this:
http://www.costumeinc.com/Costumes/images/medium/48230.jpg

He had the facial hair and a walking stick, and he might have even been wearing a crown of thorns, but I'm not sure about that part.

Anyways, everybody in the church thought that he was crazy. Obviously it was a joke, because if he really had been Jesus, he wouldn't have been dressed in the stereotypical Jesus costume. But how would we recognize the real Jesus? Any miracles that he performed could be easily reproduced by today's magicians. If anything, I think he'd probably be locked up in a mental institution.

The whole Jesus thing was a scam, to restore power to the church.

He probably would be stuck in an institution, but if he could split the fucking ocean waters down the middle, I'd follow that fucker.

I’m sure Jesus would come as an insane cult leader bent on a mass sacrifice for his god, with what remains of your life in chaste abstinence from all things fun.

That or he would be a Jew who is disgusted by the butchering of the Jewish religion that is Christianity.

Any miracles that he performed could be easily reproduced by today's magicians. If anything, I think he'd probably be locked up in a mental institution.


Huh? The son of an omnipotent god (or an omnipotent god himself) has the power equivalent to a magician? What?

I'm sure the son of an omnipotent god could muster something more surprising that taking a rabbit out of a top hat. You know, like raising the dead...

The Second Coming is just more fundy dogma.

In a larger sense, Jesus has returned many times and in many forms--people like for instance Gandhi, who tried to espouse his virtues.

Anyone willing to work at it can manifest Christ Consciousness and essentially be the present-day equal to the "historical" Jesus. He noted this himself when he said "anything I have done, ye shall do also--all this and more."

Though there are apparently records/tales/myths of a dozen Avatars who are killed and come back before long? These predate JC. How this relates to the dying away of the Sun in the Fall and it's rebirth at the Solstice/the death and rebirth of plants: IDK.

Supposedly it's more than fine words that an Avatar brings? Though: sometimes those with some spiritual advancement may perform minor miracles? Their deep & resources are limited as opposed to the Real Thing. Whatever that may be...

The Second Coming is just more fundy dogma.

In a larger sense, Jesus has returned many times and in many forms--people like for instance Gandhi, who tried to espouse his virtues.

Anyone willing to work at it can manifest Christ Consciousness and essentially be the present-day equal to the "historical" Jesus. He noted this himself when he said "anything I have done, ye shall do also--all this and more."

Amen to that.
One day amma be Jesus.

This is exactly what would happen.

Few within the Christian church would believe Jesus if he came back, complete with stigmata scars, and told them he had returned.

They would not believe him on his word alone, ironically enough Jesus would have to prove (through his miracles and magic) that he was the son of God returned.

This is fucking hilarious if you think about it for a moment...

How do we know that jesus ever came? How do we know that the new testament of the bible isn't composed of thoughts and ideas by a guy who did nothing but make people think he was 'jesus'. I mean c'mon we are taking the same people's word who believed in Roman gods.

This is exactly what would happen.

Few within the Christian church would believe Jesus if he came back, complete with stigmata scars, and told them he had returned.



Eh, maybe in America. But if he showed up in Mexico with a burnt tortilla that vaguely resembles the outline of his head he's good to go.

Huh? The son of an omnipotent god (or an omnipotent god himself) has the power equivalent to a magician? What?

I'm sure the son of an omnipotent god could muster something more surprising that taking a rabbit out of a top hat. You know, like raising the dead...

Doctors can bring the dead back too...

Eh, maybe in America. But if he showed up in Mexico with a burnt tortilla that vaguely resembles the outline of his head he's good to go.

I lol'ed.

Doctors can bring the dead back too...

You aren't serious are you? Are you coming down with the sillybillyitis?

Doctors can bring the dead back too...

No, no they can't. When the media or people say that "He was dead for x minutes" or "he was brought back from the dead" they are talking about cardiac arrest. That's not how death is defined in the Medical Profession. The closest thing we've come to a definition of death is "brain death" or cell death. You cannot come back from that.

You might have a doctor that misdiagnoses a patient for dead when he really isnt, but that's a mistake.

If Jesus can bring back a person who has been dead for days, then that's a pretty good step in the direction of proving that he's the son of god, by doing something no man has ever done. And I just mentioned death as an example, there's literally no limit to what an omnipotent being can do...

They could even beat Rust in a classic game of semantics!

Are following me around now? That's how hurt you are? Ha!

If anything, I think he'd probably be locked up in a mental institution.

I think the same should apply to quite a few of his followers.

Doctors can bring the dead back too...

Good point.

He wouldn't, because he's dead. I'm sorry to tell you guys, but it was a while ago, and you should know.

Good point.

Bad point. They can't.

We aren't supposed to recognize the anti-christ till its too late either right?
If jesus came back, I'm sure some more jews would hoist him up to another cross... And his lies falling upon deaf ears as his limbs are nailed to the plank of a 2by4.

Are following me around now? That's how hurt you are? Ha!

Err no, get over yourself. Just because you've posted in a thread that I then post in doesn't equate to me following you :rolleyes:. I had little else to contribute so I thought I'd take a light-humoured jab at you.

Yes! That makes it much less pathetic!

Yes! That makes it much less pathetic!

That's your opinion.

The fact you think I follow you is pretty pathetic.

No, actually it would be pathetic if I wanted you to follow me. Thinking that an idiot who has already proven himself childish would continue that childishness isn't pathetic. Incorrect, maybe, but not pathetic.

According to the Bible, Christ seemed like a pretty honest guy. He'd probably just tell you straight out "I am the second coming of the son of God Jesus Christ."

Since fashion has changed (and facial hair less popular) he probably wouldn't dress that way as he was raised by humans without even knowing he was the son of God for awhile.

If Christ did come back and I met him, I'd probably buy him a beer.

He'd probably just tell you straight out "I am the second coming of the son of God Jesus Christ."

He could look and dresss like Jesus, and know biblical verses and come straight out and tell everyone....

And most would STILL not take his word for it. He would have to prove it to most everyone atheist and theist alike.

Which is absolutely hilarious.

According to the Bible, Christ seemed like a pretty honest guy. He'd probably just tell you straight out "I am the second coming of the son of God Jesus Christ."

Since fashion has changed (and facial hair less popular) he probably wouldn't dress that way as he was raised by humans without even knowing he was the son of God for awhile.

If Christ did come back and I met him, I'd probably buy him a beer.

I think he always "knew" he was the son of god.

He could look and dresss like Jesus, and know biblical verses and come straight out and tell everyone....

And most would STILL not take his word for it. He would have to prove it to most everyone atheist and theist alike.

Which is absolutely hilarious.

I mentioned he probably wouldn't dress or look the same and I see no reason for him to recite Biblical verses as he's already said that stuff.

In this day and age he'd have to perform 3 miracles to even be considered for Sainthood so how many would he have to perform to prove himself to be the Son of God.

according to the bible, when he comes back it will be apparent to everyone who he is and that they were wrong to believe in other gods or not one at all. It actually says that everyone will see him when he comes...thats gonna be something if everyone on the planet can see the same thing at once...

.....the more i read the posts the more i see a description of the anti-christ. The anti-christ is suppose to do things like raise the dead and perform miracles and what not, he is the master deciever.

I don't get the impression that the second coming will be as slow and persuasive as that. It will be something like "BAM, I'm jesus"...or something like that

.....the more i read the posts the more i see a description of the anti-christ. The anti-christ is suppose to do things like raise the dead and perform miracles and what not, he is the master deciever.

Well couldn't Jesus be the master deciever?

because I thats pretty much what Jesus did -raise the dead. How would we know the difference between the Anti-Crist and Crist?

I'm just thinking of the riddle of one man always lies and one man always tells the truth. You ask which is the right way and both contradict eachother and vise-versa

Well couldn't Jesus be the master deciever?

because I thats pretty much what Jesus did -raise the dead. How would we know the difference between the Anti-Crist and Crist?

I'm just thinking of the riddle of one man always lies and one man always tells the truth. You ask which is the right way and both contradict eachother and vise-versa

if you believe what the bible says is true...than no, jesus can't be a deceiver. The difference is pretty clear:
Jesus is just going to come and take his people away...once he comes there isn't any more hope for the rest of mankind. The Anti-Christ is going to be the only one trying to persuade anyone.

In this day and age he'd have to perform 3 miracles to even be considered for Sainthood so how many would he have to perform to prove himself to be the Son of God.

The fact that he has to prove it.....when proof was not required prior to his coming here.....is hilarious.

the fact that he has to prove it.....when proof was not required prior to his coming here.....is hilarious.

this!

Jesus is just going to come and take his people away...once he comes there isn't any more hope for the rest of mankind.

You are suggesting Jesus is going to come and take the people that make up one of the most violent religions in history away....and THEN there will be NO hope for mankind?

If Jesus comes back then we'll kill him again.

If Jesus comes back then we'll kill him again.

*highfive*

The fact that he has to prove it.....when proof was not required prior to his coming here.....is hilarious.

Yes, it is.

You are suggesting Jesus is going to come and take the people that make up one of the most violent religions in history away....and THEN there will be NO hope for mankind?

idk...if some of his followers are violent then i guess they'll be judged and dealt with on their own level.

You are suggesting Jesus is going to come and take the people that make up one of the most violent religions in history away....and THEN there will be NO hope for mankind?

I'd say Jesus is going to take away the violent and false religions in their belief they're going to heaven; and the truely 'christian' as per his teachings, not the organized religion that resulted, shall inherit the earth (the so-called meek).

No, no they can't. When the media or people say that "He was dead for x minutes" or "he was brought back from the dead" they are talking about cardiac arrest. That's not how death is defined in the Medical Profession. The closest thing we've come to a definition of death is "brain death" or cell death. You cannot come back from that.

You might have a doctor that misdiagnoses a patient for dead when he really isnt, but that's a mistake.

If Jesus can bring back a person who has been dead for days, then that's a pretty good step in the direction of proving that he's the son of god, by doing something no man has ever done. And I just mentioned death as an example, there's literally no limit to what an omnipotent being can do...

My cousin died when she was born. Something about a bent umbilical cord, a punctured lung, severe brain damage, and probable paralysis. The doctors were able to bring her back to life, and she's perfectly fine now. The only way you can tell that any of that happened is because she has a small scar on her chest.

A friend of mine's dog just had puppies tonight. She laid on one of them and suffocated it. They did CPR on it and were able to rescesitate it.

Neither of those cases had anything to do with cardiac arrest.

My cousin died when she was born. Something about a bent umbilical cord, a punctured lung, severe brain damage, and probable paralysis. The doctors were able to bring her back to life, and she's perfectly fine now. The only way you can tell that any of that happened is because she has a small scar on her chest.

A friend of mine's dog just had puppies tonight. She laid on one of them and suffocated it. They did CPR on it and were able to rescesitate it.

Neither of those cases had anything to do with cardiac arrest.

So these boy genius docs did the bringing back to life without bothering to use all them dang new-fangled machines? Just looked & said, "Arise!", & it was so? American medicine is quite amazing isn't it?

So these boy genius docs did the bringing back to life without bothering to use all them dang new-fangled machines? Just looked & said, "Arise!", & it was so? American medicine is quite amazing isn't it?

Regardless of the technology used, they still did it.

That's like saying that all the people who landed on the moon didn't really do it because they used "new-fangles machines" like spaceships.

Regardless of the technology used, they still did it.

That's like saying that all the people who landed on the moon didn't really do it because they used "new-fangles machines" like spaceships.

Splitting hairs eh? Why is it so important to you to do that?

Huh? The son of an omnipotent god (or an omnipotent god himself) has the power equivalent to a magician? What?

I'm sure the son of an omnipotent god could muster something more surprising that taking a rabbit out of a top hat. You know, like raising the dead...

Yeah your right he probably could..something like turning water to wine might do the trick, no magician could do that.

Yeah your right he probably could..something like turning water to wine might do the trick, no magician could do that.

Yes...but if years of training & millions of dollars worth of equipment could do it too? How could it be considered "Special"? ;)

Neither of those cases had anything to do with cardiac arrest.

Err... yes they do. What the fuck do you think CPR stands for? CardioPulmonary Resuscitation.

"What is CPR? Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) is a combination of rescue breathing and chest compressions delivered to victims thought to be in cardiac arrest. When cardiac arrest occurs, the heart stops pumping blood. CPR can support a small amount of blood flow to the heart and brain to “buy time” until normal heart function is restored. "
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4479


No offense, but this is basic elementary stuff.


From the Uniform Determination of Death Act (UDDA):

"An individual who has sustained either


(1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or



(2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead.

A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards."

Keywords there being irreversible. As in, "you cannot come back from that". Cessation of circular and respiratory functions is highly reversible, hence why that criteria lends itself to people claiming wrongly that they "came back from the dead" when they did not.

So no, your cousin did not die. She, like I already said, might have had complications and might have been declared "dead" by her ignorant doctors, but she was not declared dead in the precise, current and legal sense which is that I provided above.

Moreover, you're choosing cases of people supposedly dying (not) and coming back to life in a manner of minutes or hours. Story of Lazarus has Jesus bringing back life a 4 day old corpse. Show me a scientist or doctor ever having "brought back to life" a 4 day old corpse. It's not going to happen.
So even if these examples of yours were really coming back from death - which they most certainly are not - they would still not compare in the slightest with what Jesus can supposedly do which is my whole point: Jesus could easily prove himself. To compare the power of the son of an omnipotent god to a human magician is utterly ridiculous.

Though it must be admitted: with technology, human showmanship and mass media, if one could arrange things well? Rumor could travel in it's sweet viral way and the right/lucky person could gain a reputation that imputed "miracles" to him. If enough people believed it? It might not take much to keep the deluded in a state of fervent loyalty.

Quite different than actually making, "the halt and lame to walk and the blind to see". Doing it immediately, is in no way similar to using technology to do the same things over months or years.

Moreover, you're choosing cases of people supposedly dying (not) and coming back to life in a manner of minutes or hours. Story of Lazarus has Jesus bringing back life a 4 day old corpse. Show me a scientist or doctor ever having "brought back to life" a 4 day old corpse. It's not going to happen.
So even if these examples of yours were really coming back from death - which they most certainly are not - they would still not compare in the slightest with what Jesus can supposedly do which is my whole point: Jesus could easily prove himself. To compare the power of the son of an omnipotent god to a human magician is utterly ridiculous.

Show me a video of Jesus bringing Lazarus back to life. The keyword there is that it's a story. You don't know that he actually brought them back to life, just like you don't know that the doctors actually brought my cousin back to life. You may choose to believe the stories in the bible, but that doesn't mean that it actually happened.

Show me a video of Jesus bringing Lazarus back to life. The keyword there is that it's a story. You don't know that he actually brought them back to life, just like you don't know that the doctors actually brought my cousin back to life. You may choose to believe the stories in the bible, but that doesn't mean that it actually happened.

Yeah...stories. Like a lot of history.

Yet, if you saw someone heal someone beyond healing? Saw it with your own eyes? Saw something that was more than just impressive words?

You might be influenced.

Though, we might suppose that as it has been centuries? A lot more time might pass before anyone might see such a thing. If you have any knowledge of the Book of Revelations? I mean hard to understand weirdnesses aside? There are one or two or more things that look at lot more like these days now than any time in the last 2000 years.

Besides: it gives one some insight into Radical Christians like Sarah "On a Pale Horse" Palin & George " "Honest" " Christian" Bush & other Christians who believe that we are in the Final Days before Judgment Day.

ps: It's kinda scary? So...don't look if horrible things bother you! :D

Way more sensible & fun to discuss things with animals that animals have an interest in. Eg: The weather, other animals, birds, noisy traffic & how pleasant it is when it's quiet again. They don't much care for politics or religion? So, as with people: those are two topics that are best left alone. :p

What Arms said is better than what would result if I tried to put an 'answer' into words, so why try and say it again?

The Second Coming is just more fundy dogma.

In a larger sense, Jesus has returned many times and in many forms--people like for instance Gandhi, who tried to espouse his virtues.

Anyone willing to work at it can manifest Christ Consciousness and essentially be the present-day equal to the "historical" Jesus. He noted this himself when he said "anything I have done, ye shall do also--all this and more."


EDIT: If I have anything to add, it is that Rust has posted a handful of strong fundamental points. Not quite a surprise, but refreshing to see on these topics all the same.


@xilikeeggs: You're an absolute moron, and you've got nothing. Shut up and listen until you can speak.

Theres coincidence, and theres religion. Peoples bodies have a remarkable ability to heal themselves. Placebo's work better then actual drugs in most cases.

Jesus will never come back, as theres no proof he existed in the first place.

Err... yes they do. What the fuck do you think CPR stands for? CardioPulmonary Resuscitation.

"What is CPR? Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) is a combination of rescue breathing and chest compressions delivered to victims thought to be in cardiac arrest. When cardiac arrest occurs, the heart stops pumping blood. CPR can support a small amount of blood flow to the heart and brain to “buy time” until normal heart function is restored. "
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4479


No offense, but this is basic elementary stuff.


From the Uniform Determination of Death Act (UDDA):

"An individual who has sustained either


(1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or



(2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead.

A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards."

Keywords there being irreversible. As in, "you cannot come back from that". Cessation of circular and respiratory functions is highly reversible, hence why that criteria lends itself to people claiming wrongly that they "came back from the dead" when they did not.

So no, your cousin did not die. She, like I already said, might have had complications and might have been declared "dead" by her ignorant doctors, but she was not declared dead in the precise, current and legal sense which is that I provided above.

Moreover, you're choosing cases of people supposedly dying (not) and coming back to life in a manner of minutes or hours. Story of Lazarus has Jesus bringing back life a 4 day old corpse. Show me a scientist or doctor ever having "brought back to life" a 4 day old corpse. It's not going to happen.
So even if these examples of yours were really coming back from death - which they most certainly are not - they would still not compare in the slightest with what Jesus can supposedly do which is my whole point: Jesus could easily prove himself. To compare the power of the son of an omnipotent god to a human magician is utterly ridiculous.

I'm no Doctor, Nurse, Coroner, or other professional. I just have knowledge from my Senior (as in advanced, not elderly) First Aid certs, and as far as they have made me aware that(your post)'s right, CPR cannot bring someone back from the dead. It can only be used in an attempt to prevent death. It's not even called CPR anymore, that's the old program. It's now called EAR..

..Expired Air Resuscitation. 30 pumps, breath, rinse and repeat.

Yeah...stories. Like a lot of history.

Yet, if you saw someone heal someone beyond healing? Saw it with your own eyes? Saw something that was more than just impressive words?

You might be influenced.

Though, we might suppose that as it has been centuries? A lot more time might pass before anyone might see such a thing. If you have any knowledge of the Book of Revelations? I mean hard to understand weirdnesses aside? There are one or two or more things that look at lot more like these days now than any time in the last 2000 years.

Besides: it gives one some insight into Radical Christians like Sarah "On a Pale Horse" Palin & George " "Honest" " Christian" Bush & other Christians who believe that we are in the Final Days before Judgment Day.

ps: It's kinda scary? So...don't look if horrible things bother you! :D

Way more sensible & fun to discuss things with animals that animals have an interest in. Eg: The weather, other animals, birds, noisy traffic & how pleasant it is when it's quiet again. They don't much care for politics or religion? So, as with people: those are two topics that are best left alone. :p

I'm too much of a skeptic. If magicians like David Blaine and Chris Angel can make it look like they can walk on water, impale themselves, make people age 10 years in a matter of minutes, etc..., then what's stopping them from "healing" people as well?

Show me a video of Jesus bringing Lazarus back to life. The keyword there is that it's a story. You don't know that he actually brought them back to life, just like you don't know that the doctors actually brought my cousin back to life. You may choose to believe the stories in the bible, but that doesn't mean that it actually happened.

No shit. We are obviously are taking what the Bible says as literally true and then wondering what would happen if Jesus comes back. If not, your own question doesn't make sense: We don't know if he even existed in the first place in order to be able to "come back" at all as your question suggests.

You're running around in circles and grasping at straws just to avoid the necessary conclusion: You were wrong on death, and it would be incredibly easy for the son of a god to prove himself. Comparing his powers to a human magician is ridiculous. Magicians are limited by the laws of nature and an omnipotent god is not.

No shit. We are obviously are taking what the Bible says as literally true and then wondering what would happen if Jesus comes back. If not, your own question doesn't make sense: We don't know if he even existed in the first place in order to be able to "come back" at all as your question suggests.

You're running around in circles and grasping at straws just to avoid the necessary conclusion: You were wrong on death, and it would be incredibly easy for the son of a god to prove himself. Comparing his powers to a human magician is ridiculous. Magicians are limited by the laws of nature and an omnipotent god is not.

Yes, a human magician can't actually bring anyone back to life, and the "god" would be able to. However, there's no difference between the two for someone watching on TV.

Yes, a human magician can't actually bring anyone back to life, and the "god" would be able to. However, there's no difference between the two for someone watching on TV.

On the other hand: people being so used to unHolywood movies/TV & their special effects might very well be standing crying at a tragedy. Looking down at someone apparently dead, have an Avatar come along & heal the victim, & think that it's just some kind of carnival trick.

I can quite believe that many people might be fooled by a TV Messiah & just as many seeing the real thing in person just writing it off. They say that time loves a hero, but only time will tell. If he's an angel from heaven or a demon from hell. ;)

No shit. We are obviously are taking what the Bible says as literally true and then wondering what would happen if Jesus comes back. If not, your own question doesn't make sense: We don't know if he even existed in the first place in order to be able to "come back" at all as your question suggests.

Hence why I said "What if Jesus does come back?"

Hence why I said "What if Jesus does come back?"

Thanks Sherlock, I know it's a "What if" question. I didn't say or imply otherwise.

The point I made, and you missed entirely, is that you considered the Bible as true for sake of arguement (i.e. for the sake of considering the hypothetical scenario). That includes the Story of Lazarous, thus my point: Jesus supposedly raised a 4 day old corpse from the dead, hence if he came back he could easily do things humans cannot.

Yes, a human magician can't actually bring anyone back to life, and the "god" would be able to. However, there's no difference between the two for someone watching on TV.

So? What's your point?

Yes, People who aren't physically present can't confirm something that requires them to be physically present. Wonderful. That doesn't mean Jesus could not prove himself to those who are present... much like Scientists can, and have, invesitagated claims regarding ghosts, UFOs, spiritual healers, perpetual motion machines... (http://randi.org/)

So? What's your point?

Yes, People who aren't physically present can't confirm something that requires them to be physically present. Wonderful. That doesn't mean Jesus could not prove himself to those who are present... much like Scientists can, and have, invesitagated claims regarding ghosts, UFOs, spiritual healers, perpetual motion machines... (http://randi.org/)

He could easily just avoid the scientists. I'm sure an impostor would be able to. Uri Geller has, and for how long?

He could easily just avoid the scientists. I'm sure an impostor would be able to. Uri Geller has, and for how long?


Again, so? Who here has denied that if someone wanted to avoid proving himself he could?

This isn't a "What if someone claimed to be Jesus and then avoided all available methods of confirmation/refutation" hypothetical scenario. It's a "If Jesus actually came back, how could we know?" hypothetical scenario/question and the answer has already been given: If the Biblical Jesus actually came back he could prove himself quite fucking easily.

Again, so? Who here has denied that if someone wanted to avoid proving himself he could?

This isn't a "What if someone claimed to be Jesus and then avoided all available methods of confirmation/refutation" hypothetical scenario. It's a "If Jesus actually came back, how could we know?" hypothetical scenario/question and the answer has already been given: If the Biblical Jesus actually came back he could prove himself quite fucking easily.

He could not prove himself easily, because it would be quite easy for someone to claim to be Jesus and then avoid detection of his fraud. Hence, even if Jesus came back, he could not be determined to be true 'quite fucking easily'.

Across a stretch of American desert, a helicopter flies in low on a hastily erected stadium, filled to the brim with people. A small stage shaped like a cross is the only peice of the stadium floor visible amid the tumultous crowd. An announcers voice speaks over a crowd of thousands surrounding the small stage.

"And we are back. Doctors and scientists from a multitude of nations have studied those he is about to heal tonight in what is being called Healapalooza."

"Without further ado.............
LETS GET READY TO HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMBLE."

***cheesy game show music plays***

Jesus bounces up onto stage smiling and waving. After a time the applause dies down.

First Jesus predicts the exact scientific temperatures of the 15 largest cities in the world for every single day of the week for the next 2 years.

Next a curtain opens to the right....

Stephen Hawkings wheels onto the stage. Jesus waves his hand. Stephen Hawkings stands up, gives JC a hug, runs backstage into the waiting arms of literally thousands of athiestic scientists.

Muhammad Ali, ambles in drooling on himself, and again, after the applause dies down, Jesus waves his hand. Ali dances around the stage in his familiar bee stinging butterfly moves. "I am the greatest" he says. Looking sheepishly at Christ he recants "I am the second greatest" and goes backstage. Again backstage, thousands of athiestic scientists.

Micheal J. Fox is the next to receive the holy treatment.

Followed by Patrick Swayze, Magic Johnson, and Palin's waterhead baby.

Jesus even cures Cheney's daughter of gay.

For the grand finale Jesus brings out several coffins, containing Richard Pryor, Kurt Cobain, Heath Ledger, Elvis, Sam Kinison, Sammy Davis Jr., Marlon Brando, Ronald Reagan, Bernie Mac, Jim Morrison, Marilyn Monroe, John F. Kennedy, Tupac, and Biggy.

Jesus waves his hand, the lids of the coffins spring open, all the aforementioned live again and in prime physical condition. They run off backstage to be poked and prodded by every scientists and gene splicer on Earth to their satisfaction.

Jesus says "Thank you, Arizona, and good night" Jesus then exits stage left. The announcer says over a loudspeadker "Jesus has left the building".

The announcer continues..."As planned he will be appearing in for one night only in every country on Earth preforming miracles, EVERYONE is welcome to whatever scrutiny they desire, until the world believes it is THE Jesus."

-------

Don't think 'ol JC would have a single problem in proving himself to the world.

Still think it is hilarious that he would HAVE to. Did not require proof for Christians before he returned, but will afterwards. Again hilarious shit.

Across a stretch of American desert, a helicopter flies in low on a hastily erected stadium, filled to the brim with people. A small stage shaped like a cross is the only peice of the stadium floor visible amid the tumultous crowd. An announcers voice speaks over a crowd of thousands surrounding the small stage.

"And we are back. Doctors and scientists from a multitude of nations have studied those he is about to heal tonight in what is being called Healapalooza."

"Without further ado.............
LETS GET READY TO HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMBLE."

***cheesy game show music plays***

Jesus bounces up onto stage smiling and waving. After a time the applause dies down.

First Jesus predicts the exact scientific temperatures of the 15 largest cities in the world for every single day of the week for the next 2 years.

Next a curtain opens to the right....

Stephen Hawkings wheels onto the stage. Jesus waves his hand. Stephen Hawkings stands up, gives JC a hug, runs backstage into the waiting arms of literally thousands of athiestic scientists.

Muhammad Ali, ambles in drooling on himself, and again, after the applause dies down, Jesus waves his hand. Ali dances around the stage in his familiar bee stinging butterfly moves. "I am the greatest" he says. Looking sheepishly at Christ he recants "I am the second greatest" and goes backstage. Again backstage, thousands of athiestic scientists.

Micheal J. Fox is the next to receive the holy treatment.

Followed by Patrick Swayze, Magic Johnson, and Palin's waterhead baby.

Jesus even cures Cheney's daughter of gay.

For the grand finale Jesus brings out several coffins, containing Richard Pryor, Kurt Cobain, Heath Ledger, Elvis, Sam Kinison, Sammy Davis Jr., Marlon Brando, Ronald Reagan, Bernie Mac, Jim Morrison, Marilyn Monroe, John F. Kennedy, Tupac, and Biggy.

Jesus waves his hand, the lids of the coffins spring open, all the aforementioned live again and in prime physical condition. They run off backstage to be poked and prodded by every scientists and gene splicer on Earth to their satisfaction.

Jesus says "Thank you, Arizona, and good night" Jesus then exits stage left. The announcer says over a loudspeadker "Jesus has left the building".

The announcer continues..."As planned he will be appearing in for one night only in every country on Earth preforming miracles, EVERYONE is welcome to whatever scrutiny they desire, until the world believes it is THE Jesus."

-------

Don't think 'ol JC would have a single problem in proving himself to the world.

Still think it is hilarious that he would HAVE to. Did not require proof for Christians before he returned, but will afterwards. Again hilarious shit.

Could be staged.

Could be staged.

LMAO

Your dick is loose.

Accurately predicting the exact temperatures of the 15 largest cities on Earth, every day for the next 2 years, could be staged?

The thousands of atheistic scientists who studied to their hearts content the reanimated corpses of celebraties, the thousands lab techs who examine the DNA, could be staged?

Yeah, your dick is loose.

LMAO

Your dick is loose.

Accurately predicting the exact temperatures of the 15 largest cities on Earth, every day for the next 2 years, could be staged?

The thousands of atheistic scientists who studied to their hearts content the reanimated corpses of celebraties, the thousands lab techs who examine the DNA, could be staged?

Yeah, your dick is loose.

The people taking the temperature readings could be bribed or blackmailed. Those who took independent readings would be censored or silenced. The media could report false readings and everyone outside the city would buy it. The alternative would be crackpot conspiracy theorists; after all, everyone knows the data has proven him to be Jesus, they're just crazy.

The atheistic scientists could be bribed or blackmailed. The labs could be completely non-existent, or just given the wrong DNA to start off with. The labs have no way of knowing who they're testing unless someone goes rouge and digs up Elvis's grave, in which case they could easily be silenced.

There are a lot of reasons why someone would falsify information for something like that. Religion isn't the only thing that comes into play.

A long term conspiracy of this magnitude the world over involving every scientist in the world who wanted to participate, is not realistic in the slightest.

You know it, or are a fucking moron, or only wish to win an argument you have clearly lost.

He could not prove himself easily, because it would be quite easy for someone to claim to be Jesus and then avoid detection of his fraud. Hence, even if Jesus came back, he could not be determined to be true 'quite fucking easily'.


What the fuck are you babbling about?

Please read what I said again because your reply refutes absolutely nothing of what I said.

Yes, someone can claim to be Jesus and then avoid being tested... That's not the scenario we're talking about. Get it? I am not saying that we would magically know the moment Jesus came back because we have some sort of Jesus detector that cannot be "avoided". I understand that he could deliberatly avoid detection. That's not the point.

What has asked was: How would we know if Jesus came back when "any miracles that he performed could be easily reproduced by today's magicians." Like I already stated, and you keep ignoring, this is not true because magicians cannot reproduce the miracles Jesus supposedly is able to do. Hence: If Jesus came back he could easily prove himself if he wanted to.

I didn't bother to read the whole thread but here's my input: as noted in the bible, when he returns he won't return as a savior but as a judge/punisher (or however it goes). All eyes will see him, young, old, big, small, smart, stupid..... All eyes no exceptions (that itself is proof enough.) But, he will have no need to prove himself whatsoever, as he will no longer be trying out save our sorry asses but instead collect for all the crap we've ever done without repent. Banishing us all into the pits of hell, blah blah blah... you know how the scriptures go.

So there you have it! Besides IMO only the condemned would need proof (but by then it would already have been too late...)

A long term conspiracy of this magnitude the world over involving every scientist in the world who wanted to participate, is not realistic in the slightest.

You know it, or are a fucking moron, or only wish to win an argument you have clearly lost.

It would take a subset of the scientists that have knowledge relevant (astrophysicists can't help anyone with that). Not every single biologist will be involved. Only a hundred, at most.

I'm sure a powerful organization (the CIA, NSA, Mossad, Illuminati, or what-have-you) would be able to find a hundred friendly scientists. I'm also sure that the $MYSTERIOUS_FORCE would be able to keep the news suppressed.

Hell, it's an open and admitted fact that the event that got the US into Vietnam was staged. Most people still don't even know that.

I think you're overestimating the willingness of people to care.

What has asked was: How would we know if Jesus came back when "any miracles that he performed could be easily reproduced by today's magicians." Like I already stated, and you keep ignoring, this is not true because magicians cannot reproduce the miracles Jesus supposedly is able to do. Hence: If Jesus came back he could easily prove himself if he wanted to.

Going off of what BrokeProphet said, a lookalike of Elvis could be raised from the dead, and the scientists who examined him bribed. Any of the 'water into wine' tricks could be pulled off by a magician. So could healing people (it's easy to heal those who aren't sick). What miracles are you thinking of?

Yes, Jesus could prove himself if he wanted to, but so could any sufficiently skilled and connected impostor. There's a difference between proof and making a plurality of people convinced.

1. A look a like of Elvis isn't a 4 day old corpse. You cannot fake complete cell death. There are ways to counter things an "impostor" could think of which is why Randi's challenge has been so successful.

2. I'm using Lazarous as an example. An omnipotent god, by definition, as the power to prove himself beyond any doubt in the blink of an eye.

3. If you admit he could prove himself if he wanted, you already conceded that your points don't refute what I said.

4. Your last sentence refutes your own point! It's precisely because there is a difference between proof (what an omnipotent god could do in a blink of an eye) and convincing a plurality of people (what an impostor would do if we accept you absurd scenarios as true) that it's silly to compare an omnipotent god's power to that of a human!

I think you're overestimating the willingness of people to care.

I think you underestimate the powers of all powerful beings.

I am talking about a world in which Jesus raises from the dead twenty well known celebrities a night, for a couple of years, in cities across the globe and ANY SCIENTIST who wants to test the validity of their identies is permitted to.

You believe this level of information can be effectively supressed by NWO, CIA, Illuminati, etc.?

I still contend that your dick is quite loose.

I think you underestimate the powers of all powerful beings.

I am talking about a world in which Jesus raises from the dead twenty well known celebrities a night, for a couple of years, in cities across the globe and ANY SCIENTIST who wants to test the validity of their identies is permitted to.

You believe this level of information can be effectively supressed by NWO, CIA, Illuminati, etc.?

I still contend that your dick is quite loose.

It can easily be suppressed by the CIA. Hell, if the temperature readers are using proprietary software, they can be controlled remotely by the NSA without the knowledge of the operators.

And he doesn't raise anyone from the dead, he does things that looks like people being raised from the dead and are then endorsed by those present. That might be convincing, but it does not have to be true to be convincing.

I think the only thing he could do to prove himself is obliterate the entirety of a continent, blow up the moon or the sun, or hell, split the planet, force everyone to experience death, and then turn the world at a right angle to reality.

You and Rust are just thinking way too small. Your demonstrations can easily be staged. But it's outside of anyone's power to the above.

You and Rust are just thinking way too small. Your demonstrations can easily be staged. But it's outside of anyone's power to the above.

No, you are thinking way to small if you think the power of a god can be staged by mortals.

Like you yourself said, there is a humongous difference between proof (what a god can provide in a blink of an eye) and convincing a lot of people (what an impostor could only dream of doing if we accept this ridiculous scenarios of yours as true).

No, you are thinking way to small if you think the power of a god can be staged by mortals.

Like you yourself said, there is a humongous difference between proof (what a god can provide in a blink of an eye) and convincing a lot of people (what an impostor could only dream of doing if we accept this ridiculous scenarios of yours as true).

It's ridiculous to think that every scientist in the world would jump at the chance to go help prove some nutcase to be jesus christ.

If he opens up by destroying the sun, sure. But have fun getting people to pay to see someone they know is crazy.

None of our points require that every scientist in the world jump act. They don't even require the majority of scientists to act. They require at least one. So either you're being dishonest and creating a strawman, or you don't know how to read.



Again: If Jesus came back he could prove himself easily. You've yet to refute this.

None of our points require that every scientist in the world jump act. They don't even require the majority of scientists to act. They require at least one. So either you're being dishonest and creating a strawman, or you don't know how to read.



Again: If Jesus came back he could prove himself easily. You've yet to refute this.

One scientist could be easily bribed and/or blackmailed. There's no proof in that. If there were a lot of scientists it would be harder, but it would still be very possible.

I think the only thing that he could really do is commit an act of massive destruction. The question there is, it that easy to do?

He doesn't have to destruct anything. If he's omnipotent he can blink an eye and prove it to every single organism in the world.


Apparently, even you concede you cannot refute what was said (he could easily prove himself) so what the fuck are you doing?

One scientist could be easily bribed and/or blackmailed. There's no proof in that. If there were a lot of scientists it would be harder, but it would still be very possible.

I think the only thing that he could really do is commit an act of massive destruction. The question there is, it that easy to do?

Why an act of massive destruction? Why couldn't he just cause pretty flowers to instantaneously grow out of the ground or convert some desert to grassland?

Why an act of massive destruction? Why couldn't he just cause pretty flowers to instantaneously grow out of the ground or convert some desert to grassland?

Because everyone will see if the sun blows up, but flowers in the desert will die in a month.

He doesn't have to destruct anything. If he's omnipotent he can blink an eye and prove it to every single organism in the world.


Apparently, even you concede you cannot refute what was said (he could easily prove himself) so what the fuck are you doing?

That depends on what we're calling proof. He could give everyone in the world an undeniable feeling that he's the real deal, but is that quantitative proof?

Assuming that it's a hard choice to destroy the world, he can't prove himself easily.

I think the only thing he could do to prove himself is obliterate the entirety of a continent, blow up the moon or the sun, or hell, split the planet, force everyone to experience death, and then turn the world at a right angle to reality.

*drools on self....

Even this could be staged, by the secret agencies of the world collectively slipping mind control drugs into the world's water supply.

Nah, I'm just kidding. I am not a big enough cunt to suggest such foolish things. I could reply to every response with increasing fantastical nonsense, at least a 9 or a 10 on the bullshittery scale, but I am not you.

Glad you agree, though, that an all powerful being is not powerless when it comes to convincing us he exists.

Oh that's right, it wouldn't be easy?

How is something hard for an all powerful being? Do you understand the concept of all powerful?

What you are suggesting is some of the most ignorant shit I have heard on the whole of the internet in a loooooooooong time.

That depends on what we're calling proof. He could give everyone in the world an undeniable feeling that he's the real deal, but is that quantitative proof?

He can make it a quantitative proof, by definition of omnipotence.


Assuming that it's a hard choice to destroy the world, he can't prove himself easily.

He can make it so that it's not a hard choice, by definition of omnipotence.

Now please, stop wasting my time with your ridiculous bullshit. The point has been made and you silly objections haven't refuted it.

Jesus won't ever come back, but the spirit of Christ within him has already returned. It returned in the 80's, when his body was recovered and his casket opened. Once the body is destroyed, the spirit can no longer exist in the spirit world, and a new body must be created and the spirit reborn into it. That's why egyptians mummified their kings, and why Christians embalm. Jesus' body is ruined now, therefore he was reborn in the 80's into one of the 12 tribes of Israel. The 12 tribes of Israel lived on, and still exist today. In case you aren't to knowledgeable about these tribes, they are the 12 royal tribes of israel, which have 12,000 members each that will be saved in the rapture. The 144,000. Nobody but these people will be saved. They were given a task by god to maintain the bloodline until the time of Christs' return. Jesus was the name of the man, but Christ was his title, as his body carried the holy spirit.

These tribes gave birth to Jesus, and they declared him king of the Jews, the current king who did not like this as he wasn't part of these tribes, seeked vengeance. The people who disbelieved he was king, turned on these tribes forcing them to flee Jerusalem. They fled in many directions, living as gypsies along the way, until they found places to settle. They taught true Christian beliefs, void of the Church's corruption. These values were passed on through the family over the centuries, and they kept their bloodlines very pure. In the 80's, Christ was reborn and has been protected by these families until the time of the rapture.

Right now, the Anti-Christ is building power and public opinion towards him as a great leader. A man who can solve people's money problems, finance wars against non-Christians, and will create world order through money and war. Who has this much control over money and world forces? The English Royal family. The queen is going to die in a few years, and at the height of economic turmoil, war, resource shortages, starvation, natural disasters, and disease, prince william will be crowned king. King william will have the power to send almost limitless resources to disaster areas, allocate food to the starving, and finance an army that can take over the world. People will feel security that they've never fealt, peace will be created across the land, and through legal marshall law documents, he'll have total authoritarian control over the world. He'll be the emperor. He'll probably sit on a thrown in the middle of his empire as well, Temple mount, Jerusalem. Which they believe they have discovered and plan to rebuild.

Where's Christ at? Christ is just enjoying life, learning, building his wisdom in his human form. The bible calls him a good thief in the night, cause he's already here, walking around, talking to us, and reinforcing his teachings that Jesus initiated. He won't perform any miracles for you, he won't do anything incredible that would make you realize who he is, he'll just be a seemingly normal guy with wisdom far beyond his years, and an insight into the goings on and future of events of the world. In a few years from now, he and the 12 tribes will be picked up by a group who travel throughout the universe through both time and space. They are the ones who brought us this race that is to bring the planet salvation over time. Not only bring us salvation, but to get us to a point where we can participate within the universe as a whole before salvation. The things that have taken place, the waste, the destruction of the planet, fake monetary systems, etc, was all about getting us to a level of technology and development to bring us up to pace. Basically, it's the unification of life throughout the universe. One criteria to become a world allowed to take part, is that peace must be established and not through oppressive order. This could lead to oppressive order spreading into other galaxies and worlds. This race holds the keys, and we won't get those keys until we achieve this. Now that we're at a level of technology to become part of it, the excess of society must be trimmed.

The apocalypse is the trimming of this fat. It will bring the worlds population to a sustainable level, allow ecosystems to heal, and will allow for the final system of peace to be instituted to allow our world to become part of something greater. At the end of the apocalypse, when King william reigns over the world, Jesus and the 144,000 will come out of the heaven's in spacecrafts. This return will be seen by all of the world, impossible to miss it, and the Kings power will be destroyed by Christ with his mighty words of love and peace. The new world religion will be obsolete, destroyed with the king's power.

If you think about it really really hard, you'll realize, Christ is here.

Any miracles that he performed could be easily reproduced by today's magicians. If anything, I think he'd probably be locked up in a mental institution.


What? Magicians don't perform miracles, they do tricks. They don't have any real powers. If he came back and performed miracles that some random asshole could equal, he wouldn't really be Jesus would he? I'm sure a supernatural being could easily outdo a mortal in terms of magic tricks.

Because everyone will see if the sun blows up, but flowers in the desert will die in a month.

What if he turned the Sahara into grassland? That's pretty epic and quite noticable.

What if he turned the Sahara into grassland? That's pretty epic and quite noticable.

Could just as easily be global climate change, or influenced by it.

The sun isn't polluted, on the other hand, so it has no reason to blow up...

Could just as easily be global climate change, or influenced by it.

The sun isn't polluted, on the other hand, so it has no reason to blow up...

Not if a bunch of trees that would normally take years to grow spring up over night. Climate change can't do that.

Not if a bunch of trees that would normally take years to grow spring up over night. Climate change can't do that.

Could have been transplanted by stagehands, though if we're talking 90-year old redwood types, then maybe that's the same.