*sparks controversy*

For centuries, there has been a sense of separateness between the human and God. We, most of the times, view God as "someone" who is up in the "clouds", punishing, rewarding, helping, and guiding. If you do what he asks, you will be rewarded with heaven. If not, you are damned to hell. But doesn't this definition of God "forgive" all?

Here is the truth........or well, at least, my truth. Even though, there is no thing as truth, despite what some may say. The only thing I know, is that I know nothing.

God is all around us. Really, just take a look. Look at the wonder. If hes all around us, then therefore, we can come to a logical conclusion that he is within us. Cool with me so far?

If God is all around us, then he is inside of us ...then therefore, God unites us.

Therefore

We are all one. We are all God.

God does not judge. He does not hate. He does not care. For my definition of God can not be offended. He has been, always will be and forever will. And by "he" I really mean "us". This is sorta to the thing when Jesus said, "the kingdom of god is WITHIN YOU." (ty arms)




But really. REALLY REALLY. It does not matter how much we argue this. Or any subject on that matter. No matter how much we try to define this, it is impossible. Because once you found a definition or an answer, a question always pops up, "Why?"

"Why?" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Brief_History_of_Time)

More to the point, why not.

The only thing I know, is that I know nothing.


Wow. I fear to keep reading, but I shall.



God is all around us. Really, just take a look. Look at the wonder. If hes all around us, then therefore, we can come to a logical conclusion that he is within us. Cool with me so far?


Your starting premise is "God is all around us." You're not really beginning by defining what you mean by god. So I don't really know what you mean by "God is all around us." Nor do I take this premise as an assumption.

You'll take a lot of shit from people for posting that, but that won't matter to you. And other people do agree with what you are saying, you're not alone on it.

By "The only thing I know, is that I know nothing," are you telling us that your experiences are relative and subjective to your own perception, and you don't know how objective those experiences are? I would agree that we are all like that.

I don't think you can 'prove' God's existence using logic. Personally I believe this is because logic, order and the finite (components of what I would call the observer, the mind, the individual, myself, I, etc.) are created like constructive interference out of the illogic, chaotic existence of the infinite. Most of existence appears to be illogical, and if it is I do not understand how logic would be used to explain it.

Want to know the real truth about God.

God=energy This is truth, proven by science.

See, every single thing that exists within the universe, is made of energy. The natural laws governing energy determine all things that are possible. According to scientific theory, time is actually layers, so all things that are possible to be created by energy exist constantly. Energy thus contains all knowledge, as all existence is confined in a singular space dictated by the mathematical possibilities of energy. It's therefore all powerful, all-knowing, and omnipresent. See, Energy is God. The God most religions refer to is simply a metaphorical personification of an idea that is very complex to fully understand, and therefore was created to provide a more tangible answer that is easier to understand than the abstract truth that explains the universe.

I guess you could argue that a God is simply part of the mathematical possibility of energy, but one would have to ignore that any God would also be bound by energy's limitations. Once we reach are full potential as beings, this God would have no more power to control things than us, and our control would be merely limited to filling specific point of existence within the universe. Since we are comprised of the same substance, there are no souls, but rather the energy is the soul of the universe, and we all share, or are the same soul living out all possibilities of cognitive life as limited by the mathematical potentials of energy. Heaven and hell are also just metaphorical bull of a happy or terrible place, but really they are nothing more than the state of the soul while embodying a cognitive being. There is no death, as energy only transfers and reshapes, and our little spot in the grand scheme of things exists infinitely.

Some people say this takes the magic out of things, but I disagree. Knowing this truth makes you realize that no matter how you live, how long you live, etc... you are an absolutely critical portion of all existence that has to be in order for everything to function. What is the function of the universe in mathematical terms. 1/0 or 0/1. The reason for this is a that all energy that makes up the universe is in perfect +/- balance at all points. So 1 universe always has the denominator of 0, or it can be reciprocated. The point of this, is that nothing exists, as energy isn't measurable in the absence of itself, and all things that are perceived are simply a simulation of something that has no quantifiable universal value.

Now you know God, and the universal Truth. You know, the shit Jesus was talking about, but people were too stupid to put into words at the time as there wasn't the proper words to do so. Only one apostle ever understood Jesus, and that was Judas. I know what you're thinking, he's the ass that fucked Jesus over. Exactly, he was the only one who understood Jesus, and Jesus trusted him to turn him over to the Romans, so that he could be crucified in order for his teachings to take hold in the world. He wanted to die for his message, as it would cement it in the minds of the world for ever. Didn't it?

If you want something to ponder for a while, as I have. There are no wrong or right choices, as all choices will be made, but it is up to you whether you want to be a soul in turmoil or a soul at peace. Heads up, religion doesn't bring peace, but an acceptance of yourself and acting in a positive way is the only way to achieve this. Religion can be used as a tool to achieve this, but usually works against you. Why does it exist then if it works against you. Cause some people like to see you at war with your own nature, with other people, etc..., cause it gives them power. Don't believe that shit, and accept your nature and work towards a positive contribution, and you'll find heaven. I'm there right now, feel free to join me.

Want to know the real truth about God.

God=energy This is truth, proven by science.

See, every single thing that exists within the universe, is made of energy. The natural laws governing energy determine all things that are possible. According to scientific theory, time is actually layers, so all things that are possible to be created by energy exist constantly. Energy thus contains all knowledge, as all existence is confined in a singular space dictated by the mathematical possibilities of energy. It's therefore all powerful, all-knowing, and omnipresent. See, Energy is God. The God most religions refer to is simply a metaphorical personification of an idea that is very complex to fully understand, and therefore was created to provide a more tangible answer that is easier to understand than the abstract truth that explains the universe.

I guess you could argue that a God is simply part of the mathematical possibility of energy, but one would have to ignore that any God would also be bound by energy's limitations. Once we reach are full potential as beings, this God would have no more power to control things than us, and our control would be merely limited to filling specific point of existence within the universe. Since we are comprised of the same substance, there are no souls, but rather the energy is the soul of the universe, and we all share, or are the same soul living out all possibilities of cognitive life as limited by the mathematical potentials of energy. Heaven and hell are also just metaphorical bull of a happy or terrible place, but really they are nothing more than the state of the soul while embodying a cognitive being. There is no death, as energy only transfers and reshapes, and our little spot in the grand scheme of things exists infinitely.

Some people say this takes the magic out of things, but I disagree. Knowing this truth makes you realize that no matter how you live, how long you live, etc... you are an absolutely critical portion of all existence that has to be in order for everything to function. What is the function of the universe in mathematical terms. 1/0 or 0/1. The reason for this is a that all energy that makes up the universe is in perfect +/- balance at all points. So 1 universe always has the denominator of 0, or it can be reciprocated. The point of this, is that nothing exists, as energy isn't measurable in the absence of itself, and all things that are perceived are simply a simulation of something that has no quantifiable universal value.

Now you know God, and the universal Truth. You know, the shit Jesus was talking about, but people were too stupid to put into words at the time as there wasn't the proper words to do so. Only one apostle ever understood Jesus, and that was Judas. I know what you're thinking, he's the ass that fucked Jesus over. Exactly, he was the only one who understood Jesus, and Jesus trusted him to turn him over to the Romans, so that he could be crucified in order for his teachings to take hold in the world. He wanted to die for his message, as it would cement it in the minds of the world for ever. Didn't it?

If you want something to ponder for a while, as I have. There are no wrong or right choices, as all choices will be made, but it is up to you whether you want to be a soul in turmoil or a soul at peace. Heads up, religion doesn't bring peace, but an acceptance of yourself and acting in a positive way is the only way to achieve this. Religion can be used as a tool to achieve this, but usually works against you. Why does it exist then if it works against you. Cause some people like to see you at war with your own nature, with other people, etc..., cause it gives them power. Don't believe that shit, and accept your nature and work towards a positive contribution, and you'll find heaven. I'm there right now, feel free to join me.

Yeah, I'm sure if any of us knew the objective truth, it'd be you, and that would be it... :rolleyes:

Hey megalomaniac
You're no Jesus
Yeah, you're no fucking Elvis
Wash your hands clean of yourself baby and
Step down
Step down
Step down

Yeah
You're no Jesus
You're no Elvis
You're no Jesus
You're no Jesus
You're no Elvis
YOU'RE NO ANSWER

(Thanks for such a kick ass song, Incubus)

Yeah, I'm sure if any of us knew the objective truth, it'd be you, and that would be it... :rolleyes:

Hey megalomaniac
You're no Jesus
Yeah, you're no fucking Elvis
Wash your hands clean of yourself baby and
Step down
Step down
Step down

Yeah
You're no Jesus
You're no Elvis
You're no Jesus
You're no Jesus
You're no Elvis
YOU'RE NO ANSWER

(Thanks for such a kick ass song, Incubus)

Genius, not Jesus. I do find it interesting that your brain linked my explanation with the words or teachings of Christ himself. I didn't prompt you in anyway to think I'm Christ, or make a claim that I am. I simply wrote the truth I believe, and you associated it with the words of Christ. Which means to you I mimicked Christ perfectly. Yet you drew the conclusion that I must think I'm Christ, which is illogical, unless it's under the pretense that I just came off to you as Christ. You then took the conclusion and used it as a logical base to dismiss me and ridicule me for thinking I'm Christ. Since I didn't say such a thing, in your mind you believe I'm actually Christ, but consciously you don't want to accept this. So basically, you have no information at all to draw the conclusion that I think I'm Christ, but it's you who think I am Christ or like Christ, but consciously you don't want to accept it. I'm glad I don't live in a state of internal mental conflict that seems to be afflicting you. That's called insanity my friend. When you don't respond accordingly to an outside influence, and a flaw can be seen in your reaction as inappropriate. It has nothing to do with me thinking I'm Jesus, and more to do with you denying that you think I'm Jesus.

I'm still not making any claim to being Christ, only simply analyzing the way you comprehended and reacted to my post. I'll take it as a compliment that I come off as or like Christ, cause that's fine in my books. It wasn't my intention in any way, simply my nature of thought. Have fun thinking about that one for a while.

Genius, not Jesus. I do find it interesting that your brain linked my explanation with the words or teachings of Christ himself. I didn't prompt you in anyway to think I'm Christ, or make a claim that I am. I simply wrote the truth I believe, and you associated it with the words of Christ. Which means to you I mimicked Christ perfectly. Yet you drew the conclusion that I must think I'm Christ, which is illogical, unless it's under the pretense that I just came off to you as Christ. You then took the conclusion and used it as a logical base to dismiss me and ridicule me for thinking I'm Christ. Since I didn't say such a thing, in your mind you believe I'm actually Christ, but consciously you don't want to accept this. So basically, you have no information at all to draw the conclusion that I think I'm Christ, but it's you who think I am Christ or like Christ, but consciously you don't want to accept it. I'm glad I don't live in a state of internal mental conflict that seems to be afflicting you. That's called insanity my friend. When you don't respond accordingly to an outside influence, and a flaw can be seen in your reaction as inappropriate. It has nothing to do with me thinking I'm Jesus, and more to do with you denying that you think I'm Jesus.

I'm still not making any claim to being Christ, only simply analyzing the way you comprehended and reacted to my post. I'll take it as a compliment that I come off as or like Christ, cause that's fine in my books. It wasn't my intention in any way, simply my nature of thought. Have fun thinking about that one for a while.

I'm saying you have a sage complex...you think you have the truth...an answer, so to speak. Please, good sir, if you and your intellect can grasp the truth with such ease, how come everyone else on this planet seems to just be taking wild guesses at it and trying the best they can?

I'm not calling you Christ, I'm calling you arrogant.

I'm saying you have a sage complex...you think you have the truth...an answer, so to speak. Please, good sir, if you and your intellect can grasp the truth with such ease, how come everyone else on this planet seems to just be taking wild guesses at it and trying the best they can?

I'm not calling you Christ, I'm calling you arrogant.

I'll tell you why. Cause the people who want to define God are religious, and if you're religious you believe in the metaphorical personification that I mentioned. Your mind is then essentially blocked from thinking outside the box to realize that God isn't a being at all, but simply a material that the entire universe is made of. There is no creator, only limitations to what can exist with this material. The materials nature is to create all possibilities within those limitations. You can't find something you don't want to find. I lost faith in a creator, and found something even better, the truth. Then it turned out that religion wasn't really wrong after all, they just can't get past accepting that God isn't a being, but an energy system for existence. Unless you fully grasp my concept, it can be terrifying. These people live in comfort of this being watching over them, guiding them, etc... Now I'm telling you the truth. All paths you can take exist, and it's up to you which one you take, and there is no wrong or right choice. Sure, I can point you in a good direction, but you have to walk it alone, and there isn't an invisible being in the sky watching over you. The thing is, you are walking all paths, its just which one you believe you are on. I don't think everyone is ready to give up their comfort for truth though. The problem with that is that people who are in control of religions are leading people all over the place. They're impeding their spiritual development, and keeping them from ever taking the right path. Yet they promise it to them constantly, to keep them in line. Religion is a trillion dollar business, and there is a lot at stake to keep those involved from learning the truth about the world.

Don't feel bad if you did subconsciously see me as Christ, as you wouldn't be the first, or even the hundredth person to think this. The truth is that I'm really just a regular guy with a good head on his shoulders, that is truly empathetic to the misguided masses. Religion is wrong for so many reasons, but how do you reach a brainwashed group of individuals, when they are taught to see me as a deceiver, instead of their church. The simple answer is that you don't and won't. Religion is a fortified system, and the world is going to have to go to shit because of this system before people will start to realize that it's not as great as they thought it was. Lucky for us, that's what's starting to happen as I write this. All the bullshit systems are coming to a grinding halt. Everything including religion, economics, and political systems. I really don't want to be here during this time, and neither will you.

The thing is, some time ago, you claimed to be Christ. I think it was in late 2006. Since then, you've said two contradictory things, that there is no God, and that God is the all-present energy that comprises all reality. Now, going by prior teachings of Christ, the question 'Is there a God?' is a 'yes' or 'no' question. You've given both, and according to the prior teachings of Christ, the explanations you could give as to reconcile these two variant answers would definitely fall into the category of 'anything more'...which Christ taught is of the 'evil one'.

You can trip yourself out if you want, or even try to trip others out with your bullshit. You're not Christ, you're not a messiah...you're just another guy with some moderate success in life that has let it get to his head. You also give your answer unsolicited...in this thread, a man tried to explain his view of God. You come in, present an opposing opinion to rebuke him, yet it also rebukes a view you have previously espoused. How good is your answer if it opposes another answer of yours?

What you are referring to is the inconsistency do to two different definitions of God. The God or Gods that religions teach of a being, don't exist. My version of God based around energy, is a system dictated by the function of energy, and is not a being. I just called it God to make my point.

No, I'm not the messiah, even though I have said shit to fuck with people. Then again, If you believe me as correct, Then Jesus was just a man too. However, it is a variation within the universe that such a person would exist to bring about change. Really, Jesus was just a man trying to change the world through words. Anyone can be Christ.

Since then, you've said two contradictory things, that there is no God, and that God is the all-present energy that comprises all reality.


Those seem to be one in the same - atheism. The second statement just says all the energy that exists...exists! It's not saying god is a distinct entity, or there is some characteristic that could separate it from something that already has a name (energy), such as intelligence or consciousness. They're both really stating atheism.

Your starting premise is "God is all around us." You're not really beginning by defining what you mean by god. So I don't really know what you mean by "God is all around us." Nor do I take this premise as an assumption.

Many of us (and by us, spcifically, I mean moderns like Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, Neale Donald Walsch, Stephen Gaskins, and Sufi Muslims) see God as an abstract, God as everything--the sum total of the force which created and sustains the universe (whihch makes it, I know, self-created and self-sustaining).

In other words, we are All One.

In still other words, I am God; thou art; God; all that groks is God.

In still more words, the kingdom of God is within you.

^^^
Do you just keep that in a notepad file and copy-paste it when you feel like it?
I could swear I've seen you say the exact same thing several times by now.

Many of us see God as everything


I'll reply to this much as I did above: This is not saying there is a distinguishable entity to be named 'god', or there is some characteristic that could separate it from something that already has a name (all of the matter in the universe), such as intelligence or consciousness. That is, if you're saying is god is everything that exists, then why not just say 'everything exists'? No need to apply a label to it, as if it is distinct from common knowledge - everything that exists, exists. Now, if you think there is some magical infinite consciousness that pervades all matter, then you are getting into something distinguishable.

This is not saying there is a distinguishable entity to be named 'god', or there is some characteristic that could separate it from something that already has a name (all of the matter in the universe), such as intelligence or consciousness.

This is from another thread, but I think it can apply here. It was originally posted in response to someone questioning why I use the word God instead of the word universe, universe defined as everything that exists:

Does this just refer to the geometrical dimensions of space? Does it include time, or other dimensions we may be unaware of such as alternative Universes with slight variations in the basic forces which hold matter together, resulting in existences and expressions of matter unimaginable by you and me?

If it does, thats great. But if it doesn't, I still find it inadequate compared to more basic words like 'existence', 'absolute', 'perfect', 'reality'.

And even then those words are also inadequate for what I personally try to describe. This is why I use the word God. I think the words existence and reality imply separation from the observer and the observed. Absolute and perfect are pretty good, but they are descriptive words used to refer to 'something' and I think they also imply separation of the observer and the observed and assign value to this 'something' while devaluing whatever that something doesn't include.

I use God to imply union between the observer and the observed, that both are one and both are infinite. That there is no real division between the two, there is only the infinite. That the division is an order attempting to be born out of the chaos that is actual reality. The division, the limitation, the apparent finiteness of existence are all in the mind, an order appearing out of the chaos like constructive interference.

That is all 'the observer' is in my opinion. 'My' existence including my perception of the reality around me is constructive interference created by the absolute, perfect, chaotic, infinite all. What I mean by God.

In my opinion logic, order, reason and the finite are born like constructive interference out of the illogical, chaotic, irrational infinite existence which really is.

I think the biggest difference between the two in my opinion is that "universe" suggests all things exist independently of each other, while "God" suggests a union with all existence.

What you are referring to is the inconsistency do to two different definitions of God. The God or Gods that religions teach of a being, don't exist. My version of God based around energy, is a system dictated by the function of energy, and is not a being. I just called it God to make my point.

No, I'm not the messiah, even though I have said shit to fuck with people. Then again, If you believe me as correct, Then Jesus was just a man too. However, it is a variation within the universe that such a person would exist to bring about change. Really, Jesus was just a man trying to change the world through words. Anyone can be Christ.

You are a backpedaling man, easeoflife. Look, I respect what you have been able to accomplish in your life, but pretending to have even a remote clue as to the objective truth is just...insane. A successful relationship and peace of mind are wonderful things to find the path to, but they do not qualify the rather limited human mind to step outside its bounds of subjective observation and perceive objective reality without bias nor flaw. If the 'all present energy field' is how you define the highest variance of perceivable reality, that is quite wonderful that it works for you. To attempt impressing it upon others as if it is superior is by no means a good will action. You are human, thus you should know the answer to this: When you are ready to cast out an old understanding, and need a new understanding to replace it, how do you find that new understanding?

You are a backpedaling man, easeoflife. Look, I respect what you have been able to accomplish in your life, but pretending to have even a remote clue as to the objective truth is just...insane. A successful relationship and peace of mind are wonderful things to find the path to, but they do not qualify the rather limited human mind to step outside its bounds of subjective observation and perceive objective reality without bias nor flaw. If the 'all present energy field' is how you define the highest variance of perceivable reality, that is quite wonderful that it works for you. To attempt impressing it upon others as if it is superior is by no means a good will action. You are human, thus you should know the answer to this: When you are ready to cast out an old understanding, and need a new understanding to replace it, how do you find that new understanding?

I didn't have to step outside the bounds of subjective observation, as my bounds are no more limited than the universe's. Remember, we are energy, so our limitations lie within energy's limitations. I found objective truth because I'm capable of extreme abstract thinking. I visualized the function of the universe through the limitations of energy the same way Einstein created his theories by visualizing himself as an electron. Everything adds up, and their is no bias that would point me in this direction, as it doesn't serve me in any way to find this conclusion. I'd been just as happy to conclude a god was pulling strings, cause I just wanted to know truth.

I didn't have to step outside the bounds of subjective observation, as my bounds are no more limited than the universe's. Remember, we are energy, so our limitations lie within energy's limitations. I found objective truth because I'm capable of extreme abstract thinking. I visualized the function of the universe through the limitations of energy the same way Einstein created his theories by visualizing himself as an electron. Everything adds up, and their is no bias that would point me in this direction, as it doesn't serve me in any way to find this conclusion. I'd been just as happy to conclude a god was pulling strings, cause I just wanted to know truth.

The thing is though, even imagining the entire functions of the universe is limited to the functions you are capable of perceiving through sensory organs, biological and mechanical. Your understanding fits with collected evidence, which does indeed fit with truth by theory. The problem with theory, however, is that it doesn't extend past collectible evidence: it does not deal with evidence that cannot or has not been discovered, for as far as we can certainly observe, nothing more exists. To hold your current ideal as good enough but not inerrant allows you to continue seeking while at the same time having no danger of being so ungrounded in reality as to go insane in your searching. I tell you this quite sincerely: if you stay humble about the quality of your knowledge, the quality will never stop improving. There is always more to assimilate into one's knowledge if only the individual accepts his knowledge as incomplete: those who believed Einstein's theories to be the epitome of knowledge in his fields are certainly not the same men who discovered further advances in those fields.

Do you see what I am arguing? If not, I'll put it into a statement rather than a form of argument: More will be revealed if more is sought.

Of course I know what you're arguing. I know there is no way of proving this in any way. I see my theory as practically concrete and that it actually is impossible for anyone to pick it apart for the same reasons I can't prove it and call it fact. It might take faith to follow this theory, but at least we can observe the function I described. We're still waiting on anything pointing to a God.