74- 25

Obama and McCain voted for it.

74- 25

Obama and McCain voted for it.

If folks had listened to either Bush or McCain several years ago about Fannie Mae, this bill would not be needed.

For open minds only: The Parts Played by Obama and McCain in the Creation of Our Next Depression. (www.youtube.com/TheMouthPeace)

^ Yeah that's why McCain said "I don't think anybody could have seen this coming", or why Bush didn't push legislation to shrink these mortgage giants, right?

Senators who voted No

Here's the quick list of the senators who voted NO on bailout/economic rescue.

Allard (R)
Barasso (R)
Brownback (R)
Bunning (R)
Cantwell (D)
Cochran (R)
Crapo (R)
DeMint (R)
Dole (R)
Dorgan (D)
Enzi (R)
Feingold (D)
Inhofe (R)
Johnson (D)
Landrieu (D)
Nelson (FL) (D)
Roberts (R)
Sanders (I)
Sessions (R)
Shelby (R)
Stabenow (D)
Tester (D)
Vitter (R)
Wicker (R)
Wyden (D)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/1008/Senators_who_voted_No.html

Wow, I'm amazed that BOTH of my state senators voted against it.

^ Yeah that's why McCain said "I don't think anybody could have seen this coming", or why Bush didn't push legislation to shrink these mortgage giants, right?

Yeah, because I bet 'let the system collapse like it's supposed to' is a real popular view in the election, right?

Bush TRIED to get legislation produced. (The President can't introduce bills) McCain DID push legislation. That it didn't pass isn't their fault.

Plus, I think McCain saying that is more of an attempt to cover the asses of all his buddies in Congress...he himself had actually warned about this eventual happening several years ago.

I don't agree with the video ending like McCain is the solve-all to this problem, but he sure as hell would be better equipped to handle it than Obama.

Yeah, because I bet 'let the system collapse like it's supposed to' is a real popular view in the election, right?
It is among the people.

Bush TRIED to get legislation produced. (The President can't introduce bills) McCain DID push legislation. That it didn't pass isn't their fault.
Which legislation?

Plus, I think McCain saying that is more of an attempt to cover the asses of all his buddies in Congress...he himself had actually warned about this eventual happening several years ago.
Actually...http://www.nhelects.com/NHPrimaryVideos.asp?MultiID=77&HTitle=VLTitle

I don't agree with the video ending like McCain is the solve-all to this problem, but he sure as hell would be better equipped to handle it than Obama.

What would he be equipped with?

Wow, I'm amazed that BOTH of my state senators voted against it.

I'm not surprised that both of my Jewnators voted for it. I am surprised, however, that Senator Vitter is still a Senator. I thought politicians that get caught in acts that are hypocritical to what they preach usually disappear to take care of their "alcohol problems."

The new bailout plan is filled to the rim with bullshit.

What the fuck do arrows, rum, movies, racetracks, wool, and fish have to do with any of this?

It's ridiculous...

The new bailout plan is filled to the rim with bullshit.

What the fuck do arrows, rum, movies, racetracks, wool, and fish have to do with any of this?

It's ridiculous...

They needed a little encouragement to save the country from ruin. :D

I don't frequently use libertarian arguments for the nature of government, but this bill is clearly theft.

Apparantly it worked as it passed the House. the Fuckers.

Way to rip off the American public, oh government of the people.

Theft is right...

God I hope these people know what they are doing.

I don't even know who to vote for now, since both candidates helped pass this piece of shit.

The US economy is fucked whether this thing passes or not. With it passing, it buys us a little more time.

Anyways, freedom in america was a nice 250 year experiment. I guess it's impossible when half of all people are below average intelligence. Mankind has been choosing shitty leaders for 10, 20, 50 thousand years and it's not changing anytime soon.

Apparantly it worked as it passed the House. the Fuckers.

Way to rip off the American public, oh government of the people.

Theft is right...

God I hope these people know what they are doing.

I don't even know who to vote for now, since both candidates helped pass this piece of shit.

Yeah, let's all vote third party! But we can start by voting out all of the incumbents in Congress.

I'm kind of torn on this though. I realize that we are giving money right back to the people who fucked all of this up in the first place, but what else is there to do? It doesn't sound like "letting the markets fix themselves" is the best idea.

The new bailout plan is filled to the rim with bullshit.

What the fuck do arrows, rum, movies, racetracks, wool, and fish have to do with any of this?

It's ridiculous...

Care to explain? Are you saying they actually tacked pork barrel spending onto this thing? I find that too out there to believe.

I just checked the House vote count here:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

Yep, my congresswoman (a carpetbagging cunt) voted yes on it. Well, fuck her then. There's no chance she's going to lose reelection because it's such a heavily Democratic area, but she does not get my vote now.

edit again: I am fucking retarded and can't figure out how to read the bill they passed. Keeps coming up with some mental health thing from 2007.

cspan.org

I clicked on "read Finance Bill HR 1424"

this came up:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR1424:

now what?

I'm kind of torn on this though. I realize that we are giving money right back to the people who fucked all of this up in the first place, but what else is there to do? It doesn't sound like "letting the markets fix themselves" is the best idea.

That is EXACTLY how they wanted it to work. Pass it at a bad time, make everyone believe there's no time to think, keep flashing the impending doom message, scare the shit out of people, etc. Until a ridiculous bill like this is passed. Would the patriot act and the iraq war have been passed were it not for 9/11? The fact is, congress never got time to think of any sort of alternative. it was either this thing, or imminent fail. A false dichotomy. The biggest looting operation in history.
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/greatest-looting-operation-history/5338

It is written into the bill that paulson is to get control of 700 billion without judicial oversight and congressional review. The 700 billion is a line of credit. The provisions state "700 billion at any one time" meaning that they can pay off part of it, and spend more of it, so the true amount is unlimited. This is the ex ceo of goldman sachs that was the given the explicit deal of selling his stocks without tax to the tune of several hundred million when he was recruited as secretary. Do you really trust this douchebag?
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/paulson-led-bailout-aig-saved-20-billion-goldman-sachs/5632
AIG was saved and not lehman brothers because goldman sachs had a 20 billion dollar stake in AIG


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_doctrine

Shock doctrine, plain and simple.

“Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of ‘Emergency’. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler and Mussolini.”

Herbert Hoover (1874-1964) 31st President of the U.S.

“If (1913) the American people ever allow private banks (The "Federal" Reserve & Fractional Reserve Banking) to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless (2006-2008) on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Treasury Secretary Albert Gallatin

And the best quote for last, andy jackson vs the federal reserve. Perhaps one of the most hardcare ownages by a president :
"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves . . . I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God I will rout you out!"

President ANDREW FUCKING JACKSON

The "revised" bill did NOTHING to fix the real evils of this bailout and instead just appeased some more greedy repugs with tax breaks on bacardi and wooden arrows(literally: http://www.agorafinancial.com/5min/smells-like-pork-feels-like-tsushima-watch-this-sector-and-more/ ). Sure the right kind of bailout may have helped everyone, but instead paulson still gets control of everything.


"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes the laws." A timely quote by Mayer A. Rothschild.

The "revised" bill did NOTHING to fix the real evils of this bailout and instead just appeased some more greedy repugs with tax breaks on bacardi and wooden arrows(literally: http://www.agorafinancial.com/5min/smells-like-pork-feels-like-tsushima-watch-this-sector-and-more/ ). Sure the right kind of bailout may have helped everyone, but instead paulson still gets control of everything.

I can't believe they really did that. Wow. And John McCain voted for it. What happened to being against pork barrel spending, John? Any senator who voted for this should be kicked out of office for this fact alone.

Care to explain? Are you saying they actually tacked pork barrel spending onto this thing? I find that too out there to believe.

Sure did. Here's some of it:

$2 million excise tax exemption on "certain wooden arrows designed for use by children."

$49 million in tax breaks for people (in Alaska, mostly) receiving compensation from the litigation over the Exxon Valdez oil spill.

$100 million in tax breaks for "certain motorsports racing track facilities."

$179 million in tax incentives for "investment in the District of Columbia."

$49 million for a charitable deduction for corporations who donate books to libraries.

$33 million for an economic development credit in American Samoa.

$61 million in added credits for "steel industry fuel" also known as liquefied coal waste sludge.

$397 million for the "domestic production activities deduction" for film production

$81 million to extend and modify treatment of "certain film and television productions.


There's also breaks for rum producers in Puerto Rico & Virgin Islands, wool research, companies whose employees commute by bicycle.... There's actually enough pork stuffed in there to double the size of the bill. The original, non-porky bill was some 480 or so pages, nowhere near the 1000 page final bill.




"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes the laws." A timely quote by Mayer A. Rothschild.


Didn't the founder of the Bank of England say something to that efffect also?

And so I'm stuck here in New York, ashamed of my congressman and both senators, for caving to the interests of big money and wall street gamblers. So much for change, right now it just means corruption, and my delegation to Washington DC whoring itself for election year funding later on.

I can't believe they really did that. Wow. And John McCain voted for it. What happened to being against pork barrel spending, John? Any senator who voted for this should be kicked out of office for this fact alone.

I am seriously completely disillusioned with our government now. The logic of paying 700+ billion dollars that don't exist yet(they'll be borrowed from the federal reserve and maybe some foreign countries), all the while voting to collect 100 billion dollars LESS in taxes. How the fuck is any of this going to get paid? think of an average person getting a bigger mortgage while moving to a lower paying job. Completely irresponsible.

the national debt is 10 trillion dollars. http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/national-debt-officially-over-10-trillion/5924

People are desperate to go back to the status quo, rewind the clock back 3 years or so but the truth is that was unsustainable then and things are more unsustainable now. This generation hasn't been burned so it's getting ready to lay its face on a hot stove.

And the best quote for last, andy jackson vs the federal reserve. Perhaps one of the most hardcare ownages by a president :

Damn, that is a pretty awesome quote.

1000 page bill? The page Zay linked to said it had ballooned to 450 pages. And what I had heard and read before, it was originally only 3 pages. What the fuck goes on in Washington? You have to think just about every bill they pass is like this. The only difference here is, we know about this one because of the coverage on it.

I can't believe they really did that. Wow. And John McCain voted for it. What happened to being against pork barrel spending, John? Any senator who voted for this should be kicked out of office for this fact alone.

the first big-spending pork-barrel earmark bill that comes across my desk, I will veto it. I will make them famous, and you will know their names. You will know their names.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/conventions/videos/transcripts/20080904_MCCAIN_SPEECH.html

Theft.

I'm glad a Senator from my state voted against this.

Is there some kind of movement going yet to ensure those who did vote for it are removed from office? If we don't set a precedent here something like this could happen again.

I'm glad a Senator from my state voted against this.

I wish we had liberals like Sanders in my state. :(

When I heard that this bill was passed on Friday, I threw my glass of water across the room. It's ridiculous that these people can do whatever they want. It seems like they can get any bill passed, as long as they run it a couple times.

Anyway, this is going to lead to a major meltdown in our finances. So, everyone will forget about this for a year or two, and everything will seem fine and dandy, just as it did a couple years ago. Then, we'll face this 10 (in a couple of years, probably 15) trillion dollar monster. Most people couldn't even imagine what ten trillion dollars in cash would look like. That is an enormous amount of debt to pay off.

This is going to lead to a major meltdown in our financial system. It may not be as bad as the great depression, but I'm sure our inflation rate will double.

Now, I don't believe that our markets would have fixed themselves, but there were other options available. I don't know what the hell everyone thinks they're doing.

I think I might be moving to Germany after I graduate... :mad:

When I heard that this bill was passed on Friday, I threw my glass of water across the room. It's ridiculous that these people can do whatever they want. It seems like they can get any bill passed, as long as they run it a couple times.

Anyway, this is going to lead to a major meltdown in our finances. So, everyone will forget about this for a year or two, and everything will seem fine and dandy, just as it did a couple years ago. Then, we'll face this 10 (in a couple of years, probably 15) trillion dollar monster. Most people couldn't even imagine what ten trillion dollars in cash would look like. That is an enormous amount of debt to pay off.

This is going to lead to a major meltdown in our financial system. It may not be as bad as the great depression, but I'm sure our inflation rate will double.

Now, I don't believe that our markets would have fixed themselves, but there were other options available. I don't know what the hell everyone thinks they're doing.

I think I might be moving to Germany after I graduate... :mad:

There's only about one trillion in cash. The rest is a number pulled out of thin air on a bank balance book. And this meltdown is the market trying to fix itself. A bubble burst, and now the market is trying to get shit back to what it's actually worth.

Anyone know why Wall Street would now decide not to accept the bailout?

And why Paulson and Bernanke should not be grilled about this? And the congress should be informing the US taxpayer more about WTF is happening? And Bush - who is the first president to ever to use economic fear mongering to get this bill passed should also be in front of camersas admitting his incompetence?


Now Wall Street may shun $700bn bail-out

Fears are mounting that many Wall Street banks and financial firms will refuse to participate in the US government's $700bn bail-out package, leaving global markets and world economies in a perilous state for months to come.

'There is a growing feeling that banks ... might instead decide to tough it out,' said Thomas Caldwell, chairman and CEO of Caldwell Financial, a $1bn-plus fund manager.

For the past two weeks all eyes in the market have been focused on US Congress and its attempts to pass Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's bail-out package - a bill to allow the US government to buy up to $700bn of toxic mortgage-related assets from American banks, which would in theory free the credit markets and set the gears of global commerce spinning once more.

Last Monday, after the bill was thrown out by the House of Representatives, more than $1 trillion was wiped off the value of US stocks as the market was gripped by panic. The bill was passed on Friday afternoon, however, after the inclusion of $149bn of tax breaks and strict rules for participating banks.

But Wall Street analysts, believe the addition of so many terms to the bill might deter potential participants.

One of the least attractive elements is a section designed to curb executive pay at banks that participate in the bail-out package. These include limiting stock-related pay and banning 'golden parachutes' for executives.

'I think this hodge-podge of regulations and rules will be enough to put many [chief executives] off participating,' Caldwell said.

Sources close to Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch indicated the banks might choose not to participate in the bail-out as there is a growing view on Wall Street that the market may be bottoming out.

Analysts also believe that the mere presence of the government as buyer of last resort will be enough to get credit markets moving again, and that a large number of banks would not need to take part for the legislation to succeed.

Wall Street ended its worst week in seven years with another tumble on Friday. The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed down more than 157 points on Friday at 10,325.38.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/05/wall.street.bailout

Good. We need less assholes manipulating our economy through fear and uncertainty. Let them take their chips and get the fuck out. I hope each of them die from a car bomb on their way home.

Good. We need less assholes manipulating our economy through fear and uncertainty. Let them take their chips and get the fuck out. I hope each of them die from a car bomb on their way home.

Yep. What more reason do you need to see the extent of human scumbaggery? Take away their ridiculous doublt digit million dollar bonuses and suddenly they might not need the bailout to keep from crashing.

Yep. What more reason do you need to see the extent of human scumbaggery? Take away their ridiculous doublt digit million dollar bonuses and suddenly they might not need the bailout to keep from crashing.

Could this actually happen? Would they actually not go through with it? Theres been nothing on the news about that.

Could this actually happen? Would they actually not go through with it? Theres been nothing on the news about that.

The bailout is a SCAM
On top of some companies not wanting to participate because theres a limit on ceo compensation, look at this example of Wells Fargo trying to buy wachovia for a higher price than citi and getting sued. Our choices SHOULD be to sell it for 15 billion, instead we're letting the government give a bailout to citi and only charging them 2.2 billion for it. It's a sick world we live in.


Federal regulators and Citibank are in bed with one another.

1. Federal regulators agree to clear $42 billion in Wachovia's debt.
2. Citibank is in closed deals to buy parts of Wachovia for only $2.2 billion ($1 per share).
3. Wells Fargo steps in citing that Wachovia is really worth $15 in its entirety and offers Wachovia for what its assets are really worth.
4. Citibank is furious, gets judge to block Wells Fargo deal, and sues for $60 billion.

Citibank's greed is crystal clear now. They'll go scorched earth to buy Wachovia at a fraction of what it's really worth, or let Wells Fargo have them but get a free cut of the pie from one of the few honest banks that didn't practice predatory loans/mortgages during the housing crisis. Ultimately, honesty loses, big money and government insiders will profit somehow when all the scorching is done.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/06/business/06bank.html?_r=1&hp&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

The Bill passed and the Dow is below 10000. The first time since 2004. 9870.12 @ 8:50AM PST. I heard Russia closed their market twice and Brazil also closed their market.

The bailout barely addressed the problems that led to this sad state of affairs. The bailout is then easily likened to filling a bucket that has a hole in the bottom, with water.

Basically this bailout shows the world that free market fucks like McBush, are full of shit. Private wealth, socialized debt FTL.

Richard Fuld - lehman CEO - Got knocked the fuck out at the gym as he was on a treadmill.

Knock Out: CNBC Confirms Lehman CEO Punched at Gym
Network verifies reports Richard Fuld was attacked for financial institution's bankruptcy.

By Jeff Poor
Business & Media Institute
10/6/2008 3:59:29 PM

It seems anxiety from the financial crisis is reaching new highs, but the tipping point for one individual came at the Lehman Brothers gym in the midst of the company’s collapse.

While former Lehman CEO Richard Fuld was testifying before the House Oversight Committee Oct. 6, CNBC reported he had been punched in the face at the Lehman Brothers gym after it was announced the firm was going bankrupt. CNBC and Vanity Fair contributor Vicki Ward said Fuld was attacked at the gym on a Sunday following the bankruptcy.

“Frankly, I sat there and listened and I’m with the guy who apparently, the day before Barclays announced they were coming in and Lehman had already filed for bankruptcy, went over to him in the gym and punched him because that’s how I feel when I, you know, when I watched that,” Ward said on the Oct. 6 “Power Lunch.” “I didn’t think he was contrite at all, I thought he was arrogant.”

Ward confirmed previous reports about the incident that reportedly occurred Sept. 21 and said the information came from “two very senior sources.”

“From two very senior sources – one incredibly senior source – that he went to the gym after … Lehman was announced as going under. He was on a treadmill with a heart monitor on. Someone was in the corner, pumping iron and he walked over and he knocked him out cold. And frankly after having watched this, I’d have done the same too.”

Ward determined Fuld deserved the beating based on his testimony before the committee.

“I thought he was shameless,” Ward said. “I thought it was appalling. He blamed everyone. He blamed, as you say, ‘naked short sellers’ over and over in case we didn’t get the point, when in fact hedge funds like Harbinger had money locked up in Lehman and was shorting it to try and make the most of the money that they already had. He blamed everybody but himself.”

Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in September 2008 and its assets were later snatched up by the British bank Barclays for $1.35 billion, which included Lehman’s Midtown Manhattan office tower with a $960 million price tag.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20081006150152.aspx

Out cold?

That is awesome.

"Let them eat cake" ...How about... "Let them eat fist".

Richard Fuld - lehman CEO - Got knocked the fuck out at the gym as he was on a treadmill.

We need more shit like this. Except on a wide scale. I think they have a name for that.

After a few stressful weeks in the market, the AIG execs deserve to take a $400,000 vacation with our bailout money, NO?
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5973452&page=1

After a few stressful weeks in the market, the AIG execs deserve to take a $400,000 vacation with our bailout money, NO?
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5973452&page=1

Yes. We need to spend half a mil so they can feel better about spending our free money.