I was reading a US marine book "Kill or be killed" from that other thread. It said that to kill someone from the back with a knife you:

1) Place hand over mouth
2)Stab them in the kidney and hold for several seconds
3)Slit their neck

Wondering what the stab to the kidney is for? Aren't they less likely to scream or fight when they are several seconds from death?

Perhaps their concentration on retaliation will be stunned from the sudden influx of pain a stab in the back provides?

I was reading a US marine book "Kill or be killed" from that other thread. It said that to kill someone from the back with a knife you:

1) Place hand over mouth
2)Stab them in the kidney and hold for several seconds
3)Slit their neck

Wondering what the stab to the kidney is for? Aren't they less likely to scream or fight when they are several seconds from death?

Because it's hardcore, man.

IIRC enough trama to the kidneys will kill quite quickly, cutting the throat would be insurance i guess.

Thing is "Slitting" the neck doesn't work very well, the major arteries are quite deeply hidden and if you pull their head back they go even deeper so you have two options. 1) You STAB the knife in just infront of the spine, that soft spot just behind the jaw is where you're aiming, and saw it foreward untill it exits (Just like slaughtering sheep). 2) Grab their head firmly and saw your knife through their neck untill it hits bone.

The little slices you see on movies and such wont do a great deal and as long as the person gets pretty promt medical attention they will survive. You need it so their head practically comes off.

What Savage said and killing someone from behind with a knife is unhonourable. I won't go into discussion as to why you should refrain from this in relation unhonourable behavior but in the end it will fly back at you and hit you in the face when you least expect it.

Opose your opponent and introduce yourself. Then attack and kill him.

Opose your opponent and introduce yourself. Then attack and kill him.

Frankly, I'd rather survive the encounter.

What Savage said and killing someone from behind with a knife is unhonourable. I won't go into discussion as to why you should refrain from this in relation unhonourable behavior but in the end it will fly back at you and hit you in the face when you least expect it.

Oppose your opponent and introduce yourself. Then attack and kill him.

And this^ is why you're the W&C Mall Ninja '08.

Also, the word you were looking for is dishonorable, "Unhonorable" isn't a word, and there are two "p's" in "Oppose".

What Savage said and killing someone from behind with a knife is unhonourable. I won't go into discussion as to why you should refrain from this in relation unhonourable behavior but in the end it will fly back at you and hit you in the face when you least expect it.

Opose your opponent and introduce yourself. Then attack and kill him.

Since when was fighting honorable?

W&C just got trolled.

Kidney or renal artery damage causes shock and death very rapidly. A lot of animals are killed somewhat similarly to this when harvesting organs from the thoracic cavity as it bleeds into the abdomen. Most people slit the throat too shallowly and too high up to kill effectively, much less efficiently.

What Savage said and killing someone from behind with a knife is unhonourable. I won't go into discussion as to why you should refrain from this in relation unhonourable behavior but in the end it will fly back at you and hit you in the face when you least expect it.

Opose your opponent and introduce yourself. Then attack and kill him.

The only unfair fight is the fight you lose.

Keep your Karate Kid bullshit off of my screen.


And to knives...

I think the best way is to just avoid doing anything to the neck and just push the blade into the soft spot on the back of the head where the spine meets the skull.

Cerebral cortex? That is where we are trained to put a bullet into a POW suspected to be booby trapped so they cant hit a switch in their last glimpse of life.

If you are supposed to listen to this Discovery Channel bullshit, the cerebral cortex is the best place to stab/shoot a person.

^^a bullet will go through it no problem, but what about a knife?

apparently stabbing someone in the kidney is so painful it completely paralyzes them long enough to remove their head. at least thats what a gurkha told me once

Cerebral cortex? That is where we are trained to put a bullet into a POW suspected to be booby trapped so they cant hit a switch in their last glimpse of life.

Technically, you're trained to shoot the cerebrum as the cortex is only the outer grey matter. Other areas, such as the pons, cerebral motor cortex, etc. would be more specific and also acceptable, just when shooting COM on the cranium, you end up putting your shots in the cerebrum due to its being the largest component.apparently stabbing someone in the kidney is so painful it completely paralyzes them long enough to remove their head. at least thats what a gurkha told me once

He's partially wrong, partially correct. I'd chalk it up to ignorance. In practical terms, it's acceptable.


There are plenty of other methods of executing someone very efficiently from behind with a knife. I've spoken of some of them previously, but many different individual units within the same Armed Forces branch can be trained in different techniques. Case in point; puncturing of the diaphragm to prevent the ability to exhale, and thus vocalize, followed by a proper throat-slitting.

http://www.trueswords.com/images/prod/c/TS-DBRITCMD_540.jpg

Got two of those (propper issued ones not crap from the internet, not issued to me a family member though), according to the owner of them, they are good to stab up into someones chest cavity and great for stabbing straight into the side of the throat because of the fine point.

http://break.com/index/awful-kidney-punch-kos-kid1.html

funny i was watching that vid while browsing this thread

Case in point; puncturing of the diaphragm to prevent the ability to exhale, and thus vocalize, followed by a proper throat-slitting.

Ahhh there is the best answer,

http://www.synclinalllun.net/img/Photo%206.jpg

That's how you want to stab. Downwards and into the trachea.

Technically, you're trained to shoot the cerebrum as the cortex is only the outer grey matter.

I thought the cerebellum was much more effective as it prevents involuntary motor functions like muscle spasms.

As far as slitting the throat goes, if you pull their head forward/down rather than up, it's a lot easier to slice and you don't have to go as deep.

I still wouldn't slice though given the chance, a good stab to the throat will do far more damage than slicing, it's quicker, and you have a higher chance of fucking up their trachea/jugular/etc.

You could always try to rip the femoral, that will fuck most people and it's a lot easier to do to someone wearing flak. If you don't get the jump and stab them in the throat, it turns into a brawl and if he's stronger there's a good chance he can wrestle the knife away from you or you don't make any incapacitating slices/stabs.

Piano wire fucks up necks a lot more.

I thought the cerebellum was much more effective as it prevents involuntary motor functions like muscle spasms.


Here's the trick; size for the cerebellum is smaller than that of the cerebrum, so when trained to aim for the COM, the largest target (torso in general, cerebrum for cranial area) presents itself as the most statistically-viable POA.

Here's the trick; size for the cerebellum is smaller than that of the cerebrum, so when trained to aim for the COM, the largest target (torso in general, cerebrum for cranial area) presents itself as the most statistically-viable POA.

But when you're fighting off terrorist who have assaulted your mall armed with suicide-vests containing nuclear weapons, and they've got the president's daughter held at gunpoint, it's best to throw your ninja stars at their cerebellum.

I thought one of the main ways to kill someone effectively from behind is a sharp, upward thrust through the left lung into the heart, thus inhibiting vocalization.

But then again, it's from a stupid cold war novel.

I thought one of the main ways to kill someone effectively from behind is a sharp, upward thrust through the left lung into the heart, thus inhibiting vocalization.

But then again, it's from a stupid cold war novel.

No idea, but I'm right-handed, so it would have to be through the right lung for me.

Keep in mind the heart is more or less directly in the centre of the body.

http://www.synclinalllun.net/img/Photo%206.jpg

That's how you want to stab. Downwards and into the trachea.

AK-47 bayonets are the coolest! (and shittiest made!)

AK-47 bayonets are the coolest! (and shittiest made!)

True, but they'll probably still be around 1000 years from now.

Keep in mind the heart is more or less directly in the centre of the body.

Centre of the heart is in the centre of the chest, just that the bigger half is on the left side.

Edit: Reading this thread about slicing and stabbing peoples necks sent shivers down my spine.

The major organs are further up than most people think, if you draw a line from one arm pit to another you'll rougly cut the heart in two. Same deal with deer really, just behind the shoulder is the sweet spot ;) .

My, my, my all these experienced warriors dispensing their wisdom.

Anyone here ever kill anyone with a knife? No? (I hear crickets.)

Swallow your pride and learn from those who have, such as the book that the OP mentioned.

My, my, my all these experienced warriors dispensing their wisdom.

Anyone here ever kill anyone with a knife? No? (I hear crickets.)

Swallow your pride and learn from those who have, such as the book that the OP mentioned.

For obvious reasons, most people will keep these kinds of discussions on a hypothetical level.

My, my, my all these experienced warriors dispensing their wisdom.

Anyone here ever kill anyone with a knife? No? (I hear crickets.)

Swallow your pride and learn from those who have, such as the book that the OP mentioned.

I won't comment on people, especially as I kept my responses to training-based ones, but there is a reason I know about how organs are harvested. Severing the renal artery for heart, lung, or other organs in the thoracic cavity will bleed an animal to death within several seconds to a couple minutes, depending on what it is while allowing the blood to pool below the diaphragm, and drain out of the body through another incision while working above the diaphragm.

Also, I've witnessed my share of more than just animal surgeries.

I won't comment on people, especially as I kept my responses to training-based ones, but there is a reason I know about how organs are harvested. Severing the renal artery for heart, lung, or other organs in the thoracic cavity will bleed an animal to death within several seconds to a couple minutes, depending on what it is while allowing the blood to pool below the diaphragm, and drain out of the body through another incision while working above the diaphragm.

Also, I've witnessed my share of more than just animal surgeries.

The thing about the thoracic cavity is that it's unnecessary ribs and cartilage to cut/stab through. Not that it's by any means hard for a knife to stab through, but I think the OP was referring to stabbing the kidneys so you don't have to go through any cartilage to get to an artery/organ like in The Enforcer (awesome clint eastwood flick).

The thing about the thoracic cavity is that it's unnecessary ribs and cartilage to cut/stab through. Not that it's by any means hard for a knife to stab through, but I think the OP was referring to stabbing the kidneys so you don't have to go through any cartilage to get to an artery/organ like in The Enforcer (awesome clint eastwood flick).

Go back and read my original posts; cutting the diaphragm (which can be done either through or below the ribs with the proper knife) is a completely separate idea from severing the renal artery, which still takes force to get through the rear abdominal wall of the human body.

I never implied you get to the renal artery through any kind of thoracic surgical manipulations. I was just explaining that by draining blood into the abdominal cavity, for organ removal, it frees up the thoracic cavity from bloody clutter, and then can be draining simultaneously while one works above the diaphragm. By the time one is ready to harvest something such as the kidneys, much of the blood drains out anyway.

The diaphragm technique, by the way, is still taught to some very HSLD people.

Random_Looney, what do you do for a living exactly?

Random_Looney, what do you do for a living exactly?

Ever watch Saving Private Ryan? Well this is kind of like what you saw in the movie and the Captain's peacetime job. We have a pool and whoever guesses what he does for a living wins.
So what's the pool up to right now guys?
:cool:

Random_Looney, what do you do for a living exactly?
Hes an assassin for the .gov

i didnt say anything i shouldnt have, did i?

As a non-special-op-government-ninja-assassin I'd rather just smack someone in the back of the head with a rock or something.

Ever watch Saving Private Ryan? Well this is kind of like what you saw in the movie and the Captain's peacetime job. We have a pool and whoever guesses what he does for a living wins.
So what's the pool up to right now guys?
:cool:
He's an English teacher! :D

i always thought RL was a med student who chopped up organ donors for a living

No, he's a guy living in the woods who learned so much about chemical weaponry working for the feds that he simply no longer has to pay taxes, because they don't want to risk making him unhappy.

RL is actually Hillary Clinton, I shit you not.

Is hillary a man or is he a girl?!?!

Is hillary a man or is he a girl?!?!
Either way, RL equaling HC means I'll be voting for a write-in candidate.

In the interest of citing sources, I found this book.

http://www.2shared.com/file/4090470/9aff475e/Martial_Arts_-_Knife_Fighting_Manual.html

I haven't read it, but I figure it's a book. It's at least 1 level more credible than squabble on the internet.

There's also "ninja" books on stealth kills, but I'm going with my gut on the belief that books with ninja in the title aren't the most credible.

What Savage said and killing someone from behind with a knife is unhonourable. I won't go into discussion as to why you should refrain from this in relation unhonourable behavior but in the end it will fly back at you and hit you in the face when you least expect it.

Opose your opponent and introduce yourself. Then attack and kill him.

With all due respect, that is childish and romantic bullshit.

Combat is not a fucking game. There are no rules. The object is to be the one walking away.

It is ugly and traumatic to both parties. And the "winner"--assuming he or she is not a sociopath--may look forward to years of troubled sleep, and very unpleasant waking flashbacks.

Random_Looney, what do you do for a living exactly?

Not sure what his actual job title is, but I know he has in-depth knowledge of chemistry, pharmacology, and anatomy because of it. Med student seems to fit or more accurately from my impression possibly some kind of intern? I know he's got quite a bit of school done already and is already doing work in a field related to the above. If I had to guess I'd say he's working on a masters or doctorate. He always seemed most involved in chemistry and pharmacology to me.

I'm a janitor, like in that movie "Good Will Hunting." Only I'm not a complete tool like Matt Damon.

Or, perhaps I'm a high school student. Professional hobo? The possibilities are endless, and none of them really precludes another. Hobo assassin with a JD specializing in Tort law. Who knows, maybe one day we'll share a few drinks after a pleasant day at the range?

I'm a janitor, like in that movie "Good Will Hunting." Only I'm not a complete tool like Matt Damon.

Or, perhaps I'm a high school student. Professional hobo? The possibilities are endless, and none of them really precludes another. Hobo assassin with a JD specializing in Tort law. Who knows, maybe one day we'll share a few drinks after a pleasant day at the range?

You'd think they'd look at your profile. Also, you once told a certain unhappy yet mobile corpse the field in which you've worked for at least 3 years. You've said that you took yourself off the do not fly list, suggesting a degree of seniority within a government body. Some of the places and people you associate with... I could make a couple of guesses as to your employer, though I doubt you'd tell me if I was right. I'd probably be way off anyway. I'm also not quite that much of a stalker.

I'm a janitor, like in that movie "Good Will Hunting." Only I'm not a complete tool like Matt Damon.

Or, perhaps I'm a high school student. Professional hobo? The possibilities are endless, and none of them really precludes another. Hobo assassin with a JD specializing in Tort law. Who knows, maybe one day we'll share a few drinks after a pleasant day at the range?

Does not compute.

Ever watch Saving Private Ryan? Well this is kind of like what you saw in the movie and the Captain's peacetime job. We have a pool and whoever guesses what he does for a living wins.
So what's the pool up to right now guys?
:cool:

A website developer who in his sparetime specializes in reading combat manuals and appearing dangerous and mysterious on internet forums.

A website developer who in his sparetime specializes in reading combat manuals and appearing dangerous and mysterious on internet forums.

Like The Martialist? Cool.

wouldnt it make more sense just to stab them in the skull, penetrating the brain and most likely killing them instantly? then again the marines were never known for their intelligence :rolleyes:

wouldnt it make more sense just to stab them in the skull, penetrating the brain and most likely killing them instantly? then again the marines were never known for their intelligence :rolleyes:

lolltroll

lolltroll

... wtf?

... wtf?

Do you know how much force is required to breach the skull?

Why do that when there's all this soft tissue everywhere else.

Use a wide (1.8 - 2 inch wide) blade at least 7 inches long, and try to aim at an upward angle towards the pons, past the cerebellum. If your knife is wide enough, you aught to sever the medulla and the spinal cord. I would imagine this means no life support. This is the soft spot at the base of the back of the skull, where head and neck/spine meet, as 5.56 SS109 pointed out on the first page.

Use a wide (1.8 - 2 inch wide) blade at least 7 inches long, and try to aim at an upward angle towards the pons, past the cerebellum. If your knife is wide enough, you aught to sever the medulla and the spinal cord. I would imagine this means no life support. This is the soft spot at the base of the back of the skull, where head and neck/spine meet, as 5.56 SS109 pointed out on the first page.

Despite the lack of structural protection on that area of the brainstem, I doubt such a wide knife would fit well. Normally for measuring the nervous system responses of animals, a needle for the smaller variety, or more of an icepick for the larger, is used due to ease of insertion. After you jam it up in there, you wriggle it around, scrambling the brain and upper spine, effectively shutting off the CNS. Kind of like brain extraction during mummifications.

After you jam it up in there, you wriggle it around, scrambling the brain and upper spine, effectively shutting off the CNS. Kind of like brain extraction during mummifications.

What a lovely mental image.

Has anyone else noticed how gruesome this forum can get on occasion? Not that it's a bad thing, sometimes things need to be gruesome to be combat effective. Combat is a gruesome thing.