Here is the situation:


I did contract work
Another employee ended up being a mole
My boss had to fire me "For my Protection"
It is a very clear and present danger that a particular group will make an attempt to kill me


The best solution would be to get out of town. If the particular group that made open threats (another contractor did confirm they were going to try to kill me) can't find me, then the problem is solved. Unfortunately, hoping over a few state lines is not an option. My boss was so concerned he loaned me his Browning high power, a holster, 4 magazines, and gave me a box of ammo. He also told me I could conceal carry it and if any officer gave me trouble, have them call the guy on this business card.

So flash forward one month. I know have one other employee that is armed on me like flies on shit. My boss said it would be a good idea. I'm not fond of it, but Somethings you have to deal with. More recently my boss told me to go with the range and meet him.

I was given some information that is amusing.

So anyways here are the preparations I have made.

Made a Bug out Bag.

The bug out bag contains a set of clothes, a first aid kit, my cellphone, the browning, 4 loaded mags for the browning, and 10 buckshot rounds for my shotgun. The shotgun sits on top of the bug out bag, is fully loaded (4+1), and is within easy reach.

I changed my appearance.

Sort of obvious, if you can't ID something, you aren't going to shoot it.

I hand loaded some 9mm rounds.

I forget the exact load data and I'm not about to go dig up my reloading book to post, but I know it was the heaviest Hollow Point, with the largest powder charge behind it.

I have spent time practicing with both firearms.
The browning had a bit of a learning curve to it, but it is truly a gun designed for those who are very particular about how it is set up. The shotgun is more or less what I have always known. I managed to get 4 inch groups at 30 yards with the browning. That's decent, but maybe I'm wanting too much considering it is just a pistol.

If those threats are not empty, it won't be the first time I've had to kill someone in self defense. People can say what ever they want to about what they would do in a fight or gunfight, but things are very different once you have rounds coming towards you.

Anyways, I know we have some people here that deal or have dealt with this type of situation, What else can I do to improve my chances here? I'm not afraid of dieing, we all have to sometime, but If I'm going to get knocked off because of some prick that I used to work with, then I plan to take at least one of the assailants with me.

EDIT: Paranoia might be getting the best of me. When I was first told it was simply an "Okay, I'll keep that in mine." and you just check your firearms and sleep with one close by. More recently I have become very paranoid, I made the decision to make one story and stick to it, no alterations or revisions. One of the girls on my research team came up to me at night, I could figure out who it was and she had her hand inside her jacket so I drew the weapon.

I don't have any real idea that can help you, but are you sure your cartridges and gun can handle the big load of powder?

http://french-foreign-legion.com/

Personally I'd ditch the high pressure handloads and stick with commerical ammo.

Then I would invest in some Level II or IIIA body armor and maybe buy a semiautomatic centerfire rifle as it holds more ammo and has less recoil than a shotgun AND can be fired with one hand if need be.

stock up fo a long stay out in the desert,forest, or preferably mountains.

http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/836/836838/hero-showdown-john-mcclane-vs-jack-bauer-20071120024155853-000.jpg

Time to lock and load, folks!

But really, if you life is in danger why are you still in town? This all sounds greatly exaggerated.

I call bullshit.

I call bullshit.

LOL pretty much everything in WC is bullshit. If this were real, I'd suggest moving somewhere relaxing, selling the guns, quit watching violent shit, and just get back to the basics. If it was a serious threat of an organized group dude would be in witness protection.

Personally I'd ditch the high pressure handloads and stick with commerical ammo.

Then I would invest in some Level II or IIIA body armor and maybe buy a semiautomatic centerfire rifle as it holds more ammo and has less recoil than a shotgun AND can be fired with one hand if need be.

Any particular reason to ditch my hand loads?

Also if plan A involves me getting injured to where I can only use one hand, I better have a Plan B.

Also, I'm extremely low on cash, so any semi-auto rifle is out of the question.

Now, I hate to compete for the W&C Mall Ninja award, but here is some more info and concerns:

Anyways something occured to me last night. Let's assume the worst happens and those nutbags do make an attempt instead of just a threat. My plan was to get the shotgun and bag, Set up to the right side of the door way, and when they got about halfway down the hall ask who ever it is to drop their weapons, If I'm shot at then shoot back. The assailiant(s) would have no where to run except back and atleast one of them would get hit considering they can only move straight back.

There is one thing that still gets me, drywall/sheet rock provides zero protection. I have even used discarded dry wall as target backers. In reality all I have between me and any projectiles coming towards in the worst case senario is 2 sheets of drywall/sheetrock and some insulation. I can tell you right now that isn't going to lower the velocity of any projectile to the point where it wouldn't be lethal.


Anyways I also have the day off to relax. I made the decision to take a short deer hunt then work on some other stuff, I saw a deer, but it was 60 yards out and I will not make an un-ethical shot on a deer, so I let it go. It was kind of nice to get back to something like hunting.

Anyways for the hunters in the house, I hunted in this field with a bow to make the hunt more challenging:

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/The_Leper_Messiah_/003.jpg

I'd like to thank those that have given any semi-useful sugestions, I'll keep them in mind. As I stated in my first post, the best thing to do would be to hop a few state lines and wait it out, unfortunately for reasons I won't go into I'm unable to do that.

ShqipTAR, Why would I be in the WPP? I haven't witnessed any crimes. If they do have a branch for dealing with people who haven't witnessed a crime, but have had many death threats directed towards, let me know because I might have to look into that as an option.

Assuming this isn't all bullshit(which I'd say is a big assumption from the sound of it), exactly what kind of contract work do you do where you have to deal with moles and death threats? And what kind of mole was it?

Advice, if you can't skip town invest in some level II or IIIa body armor as said and carry that high power with some high quality self defense ammunition in it like Speer Gold Dot or Federal Tactical or some such.

Assuming this isn't all bullshit(which I'd say is a big assumption from the sound of it), exactly what kind of contract work do you do where you have to deal with moles and death threats? And what kind of mole was it?

Advice, if you can't skip town invest in some level II or IIIa body armor as said and carry that high power with some high quality self defense ammunition in it like Speer Gold Dot or Federal Tactical or some such.

I simply took photographs. Quite frankly it is none of your concern what work I do or have done(No offense). It is a boring job, but it pays.

Capitalism is what drove the death threat.

The gist is that one company asked us to work for them. We said No. However one guy did decide to work for them and pretty much walked out the door with work records (they are just time tickets like at staffing agencies, but they have first and last name, telephone, e-mail, address, etc.) We all recieved death threats via e-mail, office mail, and company cellphones.

Things sort of progressed from there. I imagine things will cool down in a month or two. Looking back on it it just seems like they were trying to intimidate us, but I'm not going to run that risk especially when my boss is concerned eneough to loan me a pistol.

In the mean time I just playing it safe. I take death threats seriously.

Which ammunition is better of the two you recommended?

The high pressure loads don't look that much greater than the standard ones for the gold dot:

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23617

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23618

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23619



And Federals Stuff:

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=393

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=394

1. Buy these:

http://docsbill.com/mg%2042.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/jp_wasnt/katana.jpg

http://www.maletis.com/images/products/bud30pack3.png

http://www.machinegundealer.com/CETME%20001.jpg

2. Then make this:

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/deg/campfire/images/M1A1-Abrams.jpg

From crap lying around your backyard (might wanna call mcgyver on that one)

3. Ambush bad guys, cut them down with MG42, destroy their tank with katana if that fails use M1 tank.

4. Drink beer and relax

5. ???

6. Profit

Personally I'd ditch the high pressure handloads and stick with commerical ammo.

.... buy a semiautomatic centerfire rifle .... AND can be fired with one hand if need be.


For the record, action movies aren't considered a reliable source of information on this board.... yet.

You can fire most things one handed with ok accuracy ('ok' being a high chance of hitting someone from 5-7m away). One thing to keep in mind with SxS or O&U shotties is that the lever that drops the barrels bites hard if you're not carefull and your wrist takes a beating, so if you have RSD or something like that it's probably not a good idea.







what? I sometimes get bored when i'm target shooting :D .

oh BTW Knight of blacknes, thats the second "UNhonorable" post i've seen from you this morning.

You can fire most things one handed with ok accuracy ('ok' being a high chance of hitting someone from 5-7m away). One thing to keep in mind with SxS or O&U shotties is that the lever that drops the barrels bites hard if you're not carefull and your wrist takes a beating, so if you have RSD or something like that it's probably not a good idea.







what? I sometimes get bored when i'm target shooting :D .

oh BTW Knight of blacknes, thats the second "UNhonorable" post i've seen from you this morning.

Why? There was a katana in there you knowwwww :D

If theres enough death threats, you can report it all to the police and the guy will end up being in a mental institution for being a threat to others.

For the record, action movies aren't considered a reliable source of information on this board.... yet.

But you can shoot one handed. here's how:

Step 1: Take off your hunting pack

Step 2: Get into the prone shooting position

Step 3: Lay the rifle on top of your hunting pack.

Step 4: Make trajectory calculations (or just look at a ballistics card you made earlier)

Step 5: Adjust scope accordingly

Step 6: properly set up your sight picture.

Step 7: Make magic happen.


Look at the context in which he meant it. Let's assume the worst and the nutcase(s) do try to kill me, and I some how get hit in one of my arms. It will be a bitch to operate that shotgun one handed (It's a pump). If I had a semi-auto shotgun it would just be a trigger pulling motion.

If plan A involves me taking A hit to the arm, Plan B won't be looking to bright.

I'd like to thank those who have given sugestions so far, but the dry wall issue and which rounds are best still leaves me uneasy.

Hey Ship, the cops (useless in that particular town) Have already been informed. They told our boss that unless he could provide exact names, they couldn't do anything.

That's bullshit because IP's can be traced (they weren't smart enough to use Tor) and the phone provider can release records.


Special Note:

I'm really thinking they are just trying to intimidate us into working for them, but like I said earlier, I'm not going to chance it.

If you know who these people are, why not strike preemptively? Or, why not even go old totse on them and moltov them, and everything.

Oh, and yes drywall provides no stopping power, but unless they have xray vision or thermal goggles, you're pretty safe.

For the record, action movies aren't considered a reliable source of information on this board.... yet.

Excuse me, but who in the fuck are you again?

Just break out the flying Krav Jitsu Fu elbow on the bad guys, it was developed by Airborne Delta Seals to fight armor plated ninja bears, true story, look it up.

For the record, action movies aren't considered a reliable source of information on this board.... yet.

An assault rifle or submachinegun can be effectively fired one handed if you hook up the stock under your arm while holding by the pistol grip.
Not that it is conductive to long- range accuracy, but it can work at nearer ranges.

Shooting one handed is also know as "Having a bit of nouse about you cunt" it is all instinctive. Unless your arm is fucking blown off you can still get the forend of a rifle in the crook of it and make decent judgement of a target up to 50m (150 feet) away. As long as you align yourself propperly you can send rounds down range accuratly enough to keep their heads down for a tactical withdrawal.

Just break out the flying Krav Jitsu Fu elbow on the bad guys, it was developed by Airborne Delta Seals to fight armor plated ninja bears, true story, look it up.

But even regular bears are badasses!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_VlVckrUgY

I actually don't believe in martial arts. Everything I learned about fighting was from experience.

Do you actually have anything useful to add, or are you just going to try to troll in this thread? Is it that much to ask for serious replies?

Wasn't there a mod to the m60 for JSOC that was known as the "chop" M60 and was soley intended to be fired by instinct?

That's bullshit because IP's can be traced

They can be traced. They can be traced to a general location which may or may not be near the person making the threats. The ISP knows who it is, but it not going to release the information without a subpeona.

IPs without ISP information is bullshit. For instance, for a while my IP registered in Virginia, and that's about 1500 miles from where I live.

They can be traced. They can be traced to a general location which may or may not be near the person making the threats. The ISP knows who it is, but it not going to release the information without a subpeona.

IPs without ISP information is bullshit. For instance, for a while my IP registered in Virginia, and that's about 1500 miles from where I live.

They can still track the IP Addy with a subpeona. Fantastic, man thanks for re-stating that IP's can infact be traced back to a name.

Last time I checked if there is probable cause that someone will commit a crime, you can get a search warrant, so why not a subpeona?

If there are email death threats from an ip, you can get a subpoena to make the isp release the name and information relating to the specific ip.

God help me, I don't know where to start.

You can fire most things one handed with ok accuracy ('ok' being a high chance of hitting someone from 5-7m away).


Hitting something 5-7 meters away is really considered ok accuracy?


But

Look at the context in which he meant it. Let's assume the worst and the nutcase(s) do try to kill me, and I some how get hit in one of my arms. It will be a bitch to operate that shotgun one handed (It's a pump). If I had a semi-auto shotgun it would just be a trigger pulling motion.




First of all, he said center fire, semi auto, rifle.

Second, (This is where making your number one training aid Chuck Norris movies really starts to show) the chance of someone being able to do anything other than drop their weapon and panic after being shot in the arm is slim.


Excuse me, but who in the fuck are you again?

How am I supposed to respond to this?


An assault rifle or submachinegun can be effectively fired one handed if you hook up the stock under your arm while holding by the pistol grip.
Not that it is conductive to long- range accuracy, but it can work at nearer ranges.


I guess this depends on ones definition of effective.

Shooting one handed is also know as "Having a bit of nouse about you cunt" it is all instinctive. Unless your arm is fucking blown off you can still get the forend of a rifle in the crook of it and make decent judgement of a target up to 50m (150 feet) away. As long as you align yourself propperly you can send rounds down range accuratly enough to keep their heads down for a tactical withdrawal.


Keep in mind, They most likely still have both arms. They outnumber you.

You've been playing too many video games if actually believe surviving something like this has any basis in reality.

An assault rifle or submachinegun can be effectively fired one handed if you hook up the stock under your arm while holding by the pistol grip.
Not that it is conductive to long- range accuracy, but it can work at nearer ranges.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! DON'T GIVE THEM MORE SPURIOUS REASONS TO BAN PISTOL GRIPS!

I don't understand why you'd fire a long gun one handed while unsupported, there's really no advantage.

God help me, I don't know where to start.
Hitting something 5-7 meters away is really considered ok accuracy?


Think about it, you're in a house, Mr bad man just fucked up your left arm with, fucked if i know, a bat/bullet/knife whatever. Unless you live in a fucking aircraft hanger YES hitting say a 1ft square target from 7m is perfectly acceptable.

Second, (This is where making your number one training aid Chuck Norris movies really starts to show) the chance of someone being able to do anything other than drop their weapon and panic after being shot in the arm is slim.
If they were relaxed i'd probably agree. But fear and adrenalin are powerful motivators.

I guess this depends on ones definition of effective.
Effective to most people would be landing the majority of your shots in the target at whatever range is being discussed, and given that this scenario probably would go down inside, that range wouldn't be more than 5-10m, So anything that is capable of delivering rougly 120 MOA or better is just fine.

I guess this depends on ones definition of effective.

Trust me, I've hit spent glass bottles of pepsi from around 15 mts with my UZI, MPK, M16 and MP40 aiming one handed. True, it was from a formal firing stance, and I did spend about half the magazine to down five bottles, but its better than nothing.

Also, one of my friends got his finger blown off once when he tried to westle the pistol from the robber in a failed robbery and he didn't notice until after the perp had been disarmed. Adrenaline can be an effective painkiller.
Btw, they reattached it later, but its almost half an inch shorter and stiff.

Think about it, you're in a house, Mr bad man just fucked up your left arm with, fucked if i know, a bat/bullet/knife whatever. Unless you live in a fucking aircraft hanger YES hitting say a 1ft square target from 7m is perfectly acceptable.


IRL Mr bad man isn't going to deliver a monologue between blows. If someone has already got the drop on you, has injured you and is within the range of 5-10m we seem to be talking about. You are fucked, no two ways about it.


If they were relaxed i'd probably agree. But fear and adrenalin are powerful motivators.

Motivate one to run or beg for his life maybe.


this scenario probably would go down inside, that range wouldn't be more than 5-10m,

Then he'd be a fucking moron for picking a center fire rifle in the first place wouldn't he?

Trust me, I've hit spent glass bottles of pepsi from around 15 mts with my UZI, MPK, M16 and MP40 aiming one handed. True, it was from a formal firing stance, and I did spend about half the magazine to down five bottles, but its better than nothing.




Only one of those qualifies as a center fire rifle my friend. I'm not going to tell you which one, you'll have to look that up for yourself.:p

Better than nothing still isn't effective fire. Remember the guy who just shot you y isn't using a fucking muzzle loader.




Also, one of my friends got his finger blown off once when he tried to westle the pistol from the robber in a failed robbery and he didn't notice until after the perp had been disarmed. Adrenaline can be an effective painkiller.
Btw, they reattached it later, but its almost half an inch shorter and stiff.

There are millions of stories out there of that kind of thing. Adrenaline is a very effective pain killer. No doubt about it. He may not feel a thing. But when his arm gets thrown back and dislocated or broken he's going to know.


BTW, nice collection. Where do they draw the line in your country?

BTW, nice collection. Where do they draw the line in your country?

I believe all of it is hugely illegal.

Then he'd be a fucking moron for picking a center fire rifle in the first place wouldn't he?

What the hell are you talking about?

Are you telling me everyone who has an AR15, Mini 14, or an AK 47 for home defense is a fucking moron?

What the hell are you talking about?

Are you telling me everyone who has an AR15, Mini 14, or an AK 47 for home defense is a fucking moron?


Not quite, I'm saying if you are picking a weapon that you will only be using in the ranges described above and you pick a full sized assault rifle; you could be, a fucking moron.

Here is the situation:


I did contract work
Another employee ended up being a mole
My boss had to fire me "For my Protection"
It is a very clear and present danger that a particular group will make an attempt to kill me


lol...

You're seeking advice from totse?

Not quite, I'm saying if you are picking a weapon that you will only be using in the ranges described above and you pick a full sized assault rifle; you could be, a fucking moron.

None of the firearms I listed are assault rifles :-/

I for one believe that carbines are excellent firearms for home defense.

And if you paid attention you would see that several other knowledgeable people agree with me.

Heh all of this shit is moot, the best way to avoid a confrontation is to just walk away which is what the OP should do. Living in a world of fear/violence, is weaksauce. Just move ffs.

QUOTE=5.56 SS109;10558378]None of the firearms I listed are assault rifles :-/ [/QUOTE]

I'd still love to see you fire one effectively one handed.





[QUOTE= And if you paid attention you would see that several other knowledgeable people agree with me.[/QUOTE]

If they are agreeing with you that a center fire rifle can be fired effectively with one hand they need to stop taking their cues from Hollywood and join their respective nation's armed forces.. You learn really quick the difference between effective and non effective fire with simunition.

So everyone but you is wrong?

Considering all of your other posts are about stupid things like "What kind of .22 is this" and "What's wrong with my gun?", you really don't seem to be too knowledgeable in the area of firearms.


But since your the expert and all....

What kind of firearm should know nothings like me and the rest of the people here use for self defense?

You know, self defense with a firearm, that thing that you can't do in Canada.

Heh ive played paintball one handed, and it always scares the shit out of people even if it doesnt hit.

If they are agreeing with you that a center fire rifle can be fired effectively with one hand they need to stop taking their cues from Hollywood and join their respective nation's armed forces.. You learn really quick the difference between effective and non effective fire with simunition.
Ever notice that all (or pretty much all) the best shooters in the world are civilians?

Also note that a "centerfire rifle" would most likely be a .223 and they have about the same recoil as a .22 rimfire and are pretty light unless you have a target version.

I seriously doubt anyone plans to use one hand, everyone knows it's a bunch of shit compared to two hands and a decent stance. But the fact is, if for whatever reason you had to, it could be done.

Only one of those qualifies as a center fire rifle my friend. I'm not going to tell you which one, you'll have to look that up for yourself.:p


Well, the M16 would be the largest rifle I'd fire single handed, as even then AK seems a bit of a stretch (because of the recoil). Not to mention the FAL or my Remmy 742. or the bolt guns.

At any rate I wouldn't use an assault rifle for a home defense situation, even tho concrete walls are the norm in my country. I'd use a pistol, shotgun, or an SMG in a very extreme case where I had nothing else lying around.
Now that I have my working muzzle attachment for hearing protection, I need not worry about losing my hearing. :p

I seriously doubt anyone plans to use one hand, everyone knows it's a bunch of shit compared to two hands and a decent stance. But the fact is, if for whatever reason you had to, it could be done.

^
This

Its the thing one doesn't do unless its absolutely necessary or you're practicing at a very safe and secluded range.

Try hipping an MG3.