Ok so normal target team members carry the TK-3130 by kenwood. (manual: http://inform3.kenwoodusa.com/Manuals/USA_LMR%5CTK-3130_B62-1486-20.pdf )

It can go between channels 1 and 2. However, assets protection carries a yet unidentifiable walkie, which visually looks the same except it can go to at least 4 channels. I was thinking maybe the TK-3131 which goes up to 15 but I cant verify that the AP radios can go above 4

Also, the menu functions appear to have been disabled. No menu functions are availible from any of the walkies i've tried from Target.

The question is: could the TK-3130 be modded to be able to hear channel 4 on the AP walkies? That is the channel AP uses to talk about important things.

Without knowing the specifics of the frequencies used, it's really hard to tell. I will say that it sounds as though Target has modified the transceivers to receive only certain frequencies depending on your role within the store.

According to that manual, these machines are up in the UHF Business Band. That's not to assume that Asset Protection is in the same band, as they could very well be in VHF or Low Band range. They could also be using a trunked system which won't allow you to access it without a radio authorized by the trunking computer anyway. If they're serious about their assets, it stands to reason that they'd be serious about their radio security as well (unlike Wal-Mart, which still runs standard UHF Business Band frequencies in many locations).

If you really want to know what they're up to that bad, it'd be simpler to buy a used scanner off of Ebay and check the business bands for activity from them.

Also, don't assume that the radio plan in your specific location is how it's done everywhere. Far from it; while this place may be using a nice setup, at others, they may be using GMRS, FRS, Business Band, MURS, or even Nextel (which can't be monitored, period). So govern your spending appropriately.

I didn't consider a trunking system. However I don't know too much about them so I couldn't say.

Perhaps it is worth mentioning that the phone system is connected to the walkie talkies as well as the Indyme system (call buttons system)

The AP walkies and definitely on the same band as the normal ones because they can switch to channel 1 if needed.

I know there are some pocket sized scanners out there but I am not really looking to carry one around. If I were to get a scanner I would get a police one too and I don't have the funds yet.

A scanner capable of picking up those machines could be had for around $180 new, and far less on Ebay. Keep in mind, $180 is small beans when it comes to radio equipment. It would also pick up conventional public safety communications as well.

It being tied to the phone really doesn't mean much. A phone patch is no big deal to do with a repeater.

Local public safety communications around here are digital. So if by conventional you meant analog, no dice.

If that isnt what you meant, care to reccomend a scanner?

Of course, being able to transmit would be cool too, so I will endevor to discover what the AP team is using.

Speaking of which. I have a few GMRS Kenwood walkies as well. Could they be modded to work with business band walkies such as the Target ones?

If you want a digital machine, you need to plan on spending well over $400. If you just want a scanner just to hear the conversations, a used conventional scanner can be had relatively cheaply.

I don't understand why you're so dead set on modding radios when it would be far simpler just to purchase units operating on the proper band. A business band radio can be had for around $350 new, and I'm sure far cheaper used.

It's likely that a mod could be done to GMRS/FRS, but their range would be severely limited, so I don't think it'd be worth the trouble.

If it becomes more important to me then I will probably get a scanner.

I've got a few kenwood TK-3130's (business band) laying around. I also have 6 kenwood UBZ-LH-14's (GMRS). Having the capability for them to be able to communicate with each other would be cheaper than buying more of one or the other. The other problem is that both have been discontinued for some time. Yes I know that I could just buy a newer model that works on one band or another but again there is cost. Thus, modding.

Back to the Target walkies: Any way to access the menu functions?

Well, the thing is, many radios are built for a specific band, and don't work on other bands. They're referred to as narrowband (as opposed to a wideband, such as a scanner, which is meant to pick up many, many frequencies in comparison). I'm going to guess that the transceivers you're in possession of are narrowband, and can't be opened up outside of their specific frequency allocation.

Besides, the expense and effort to accomplish it, if it was even possible, would likely negate any benefit you'd gain. Without being a radio tech, you'll be lost, and if you were a radio tech, I'm guessing you'd already be working on it.

Thanks, I appreciate the info.

Found out today that the AP walkies are the exact same as the normal ones, that is they are the TK-3130 as well. It can probably be adjusted through the menu but that is disabled. Interestingly enough, the manual states that is is a 2-channel walkie. So I am surprised it can do more than that.

do some scanning to figure out the freqs =]

I can tell you from working in Target AP, the radios we had only went up to channel 3. That was our private channel, like you said, and none of the radios I saw at any of the many stores I visited ever went above.

They're most likely conventional then, and without trunking. I'd say a cheap scanner (which can be had for $100 or so at Radio Shack) would be the way to try and find their communications out.

It'd be kind of impractical, though...if hypothetically a shoplifter were trying to listen in and make sure they or their friend aren't going to be caught stealing or something, I mean. (And I know this isn't the Bad Ideas forum, but...) There isn't that much important said over the AP channel, because for the most part they have to maintain radio silence while they're following thieves. There's usually only one undercover APS on duty, with maybe one or two uniformed TPS's, sometimes no APS, sometimes no TPS. I know when I was there a few years back, staffing was stretched so thin that often there was only one person on duty for hours each morning or evening. I can't imagine that's changed in the worsening economy, either.

The APS might call the TPS to go and check something on the cameras, or to get ready to back him up at the doors. If the TPS needs to tell the APS something important, they'll blow softly into the radio, producing a quiet static crackle on the APS's end. But if the APS is following someone, often they won't even answer their radio, since the noise would give away their hiding place. Sometimes the thieves hear just that small crackle coming unexpectedly from an endcap or another aisle and chicken out, so a TPS might not even risk that.

I'd say the only really practical use of listening to the radios is if a shoplifter heard a regular employee's radio call, "So-and-so, go to three." This would most likely mean AP is paying attention to them, so they should just abandon the job and try again later.

I agree, though, with Bluetooth options coming out in transceivers lately, the days of them having an audible mic on their hip may be numbered. In that case, radio silence would only be needed for the personnel on the floor, but whoever was in the office or their little security center could yap into their ear all they want.

Regardless, though, there's only a few select frequencies those machines could be on, and a scanner would prove far more practical than obtaining the transceivers for anyone who was inclined to listen in on Target's personnel. While the radios aren't horribly expensive (I'm pricing them at around $130-$200 on Google right now), a cheap scanner can be had for less than $100 online. In fact, this Uniden model (http://www.scannermaster.com/BC72XLT_Scanner_p/01-500882.htm) would do the job nicely and very discreetly if you used an earbud.

Different stores have different radios that may or may not have 4 channels. And some new stores use motorolas.

But anyways, In the particular store that I am in, there are 2 full time TPS's, 2 full time APS and the ETL-AP.

The purpose of me wanting to be able to hear their conversaisions is so that I can go and see the people doing whatever they are doing. But, if a friend needed me to cover them while they forgot to pay for something then that is always an option.

They dont do the blow softly trick (yep I read the textfile on here too) and they only have 1 headset/shoulder mic for the whole AP team, so they just walk over the regular walkie, and if one is close enough to the AP person then one could hear it.

But alas, I am usually too far away.

Additionally, I am not looking for a scanner becuase transmitting capabilities are important.

And I still have had no luck acessing the menu, which surely would allow me to change the transmitting frequency.

Different stores have different radios that may or may not have 4 channels. And some new stores use motorolas.

But anyways, In the particular store that I am in, there are 2 full time TPS's, 2 full time APS and the ETL-AP.

The purpose of me wanting to be able to hear their conversaisions is so that I can go and see the people doing whatever they are doing. But, if a friend needed me to cover them while they forgot to pay for something then that is always an option.

They dont do the blow softly trick (yep I read the textfile on here too) and they only have 1 headset/shoulder mic for the whole AP team, so they just walk over the regular walkie, and if one is close enough to the AP person then one could hear it.

But alas, I am usually too far away.

Additionally, I am not looking for a scanner becuase transmitting capabilities are important.

And I still have had no luck acessing the menu, which surely would allow me to change the transmitting frequency.

Motorolas can be monitored if they're on the right band. The company just makes the transceiver, but the business band or whatever band you're on doesn't change. While they might be on different bands from store to store, it's highly unlikely that they're changing them in the same store on any sort of frequent basis.

Yes, accessing the menu would allow you to change channels. I still think it'd be simpler to get either the same radio from an online source or from Radio Shack rather than still goof around with the unit you have, and clearly are struggling with.

If your transmitting needs are to talk to your buddy, then go buy some bubblepacked FRS walkie talkies from Wal-Mart. If you need to operate on the store's frequencies, look up the business band frequencies, see what channel they correspond to, and purchase the radio online. There's only a few frequencies dedicated to the business band, it can't be that difficult to figure out what channel they're on.

http://www.awswireless.com/store/kenwood_TK3130.html

in addition to it being bitchin expensive (probly could get it about 50 bucks cheaper by searchng harder, but anyways) it still shows as having 2 channels. The Kenwood brochure says that it only has two channels as well.

Indeed, I am looking to transmit on the same frequency as the AP employees.

But so if I were to get both one of them that would presumably have unlocked menu functions, and a scanner, I would then scan for the AP people talking, and then change my new radio to that frequency. The manual has a frequency list in the back of it.

http://www.awswireless.com/store/kenwood_TK3130.html

in addition to it being bitchin expensive (probly could get it about 50 bucks cheaper by searchng harder, but anyways) it still shows as having 2 channels. The Kenwood brochure says that it only has two channels as well.

Indeed, I am looking to transmit on the same frequency as the AP employees.

But so if I were to get both one of them that would presumably have unlocked menu functions, and a scanner, I would then scan for the AP people talking, and then change my new radio to that frequency. The manual has a frequency list in the back of it.

$180 is hardly "bitchin expensive" for radio equipment, my friend.

That being said, no need to have a scanner AND the radios, since presumably there's a scan function on the radio itself which will scan only the channels in their system.

They can also be had somewhat cheaper, like, to the tune of $50. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Kenwood+TK-3130&x=0&y=0)

It also appears that there are several other models of Kenwood radios that would be compatible on their system. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Kenwood+TK-3130&x=0&y=0)

One last thought: some of these Kenwood machines, such as the ProTalk version of the 3130, have all the "star" business frequencies programmed into them as well. Perhaps that's the other channels that your AP guys are switching to?

Without knowing their specific model of radio, we can't be sure.

Maybe I'm dumb, but both of those links seem to be the same, and they both find TK-3130's for 149.99, which is "bitchin expensive" for my poor ass which only makes about $250 in a weekend.

The AP team does indeed use the TK-3130 as well.

So yeah, I am looking for a way to access the menu functions.

I'll buy one if there is no other way.

Maybe I'm dumb, but both of those links seem to be the same, and they both find TK-3130's for 149.99, which is "bitchin expensive" for my poor ass which only makes about $250 in a weekend.

The AP team does indeed use the TK-3130 as well.

So yeah, I am looking for a way to access the menu functions.

I'll buy one if there is no other way.

The link I provided listed them in a variety of price ranges. The Amazon link, in particular, listed them at $140 and $145. Yours listed them at roughly $180. Last I checked, unless my math is wrong, that's still a $40 savings, or 20+ percent.

If you want to play in radios, that's hardly expensive. Your poverty does not change the fact that radios are expensive. If you saved your nickels and dimes (and I know it's a pain, I've been saving for a digital scanner for a year) and purchased a 3130 new, I'd be willing to bet you could access those other channels. Again, though, don't be afraid to look into other business band radios. The 3130 models aren't the only ones on the market, nor is Kenwood their only producer. Whatever game of cops & robbers you wanted to play with AP could be accomplished for what in radio terms is relatively cheap.

$250 in a weekend is pretty good money. Assuming you worked two standard 8 hour days, that works out to $15 and change an hour. I've got a degree, and I'm currently only pulling $11.50 an hour, just so you're aware. $125 a day is nothing to sneeze at in this economy.

EDIT: And you're right, both those links go to Amazon. Here's the link I meant to post so you could see some other Kenwood models.

http://www.techwholesale.com/kenwoodprotalk.html

Still out of your apparent price range. Ebay might wind up being your friend.

I currently only work friday thru sunday and that is my income for the week, a best circumstances estimate. But that is beside the point.

Indeed, I shall save my money.

Keep an eye on Ebay and the like. You might stumble across something used that works that will save you a bundle.