http://jalopnik.com/5062050/nyt-chrysler-in-merger-talks-with-gm

It would be like constipation and diarrhoea at the same time!

At least the Chrystler line won't have transmissions made of shit anymore.

What I like the most would be this.
UPDATE #2: We just realized this will make NASCAR irrelevant to the auto industry.

As if it isn't already.

GM may as well go ahead and merge with Chrysler. They've been being pretty dumb the last few years, like they've completely forgotten how to build and sell cars that people want. (I'm talking about how they've just sat on their asses and watched Dodge come out with the new Charger and Challenger and still haven't brought out the new Camaro. I know the Camaro alone wouldn't have been enough to save them, but I think it certainly wouldn't have hurt.)

What I like the most would be this.
UPDATE #2: We just realized this will make NASCAR irrelevant to the auto industry. As if it isn't already.So true. Chevy is called the "winningest name in racing" but you'd never know that if you don't watch NASCAR.

You might know that the Chevy 350 block is the most-produced engine in history, even if you have never watched NASCAR. ;) Quite a feate considering how old the design is and the fact that it is still used.

GM is hedging their success on the new Camaro and Volt. I also know that Saturn cars sell rather well. The VUE's I've driven don't seem to be perfect (power steering and plastic trim are my main problems), but they are moderately priced, have excellent performance for its fuel economy (The 3.0 takes off like a rocket!), have plenty of cargo room, AWD on the V6 models and even have a 5-speed option for the 2.4L, as well as having a mild hybrid trim. (25/32 mpg and it weighs 4300 pounds. Pretty damn respectible.)

Not to mention that Cadillac has been having great reviews for its cars, as well as Buick.

Of course, what you said is true; GM may well know how to make a great car. It just doesn't understand the market very well.

You might know that the Chevy 350 block is the most-produced engine in history, even if you have never watched NASCAR. ;) Quite a feate considering how old the design is and the fact that it is still used.

GM is hedging their success on the new Camaro and Volt. I also know that Saturn cars sell rather well. The VUE's I've driven don't seem to be perfect (power steering and plastic trim are my main problems), but they are moderately priced, have excellent performance for its fuel economy (The 3.0 takes off like a rocket!), have plenty of cargo room, AWD on the V6 models and even have a 5-speed option for the 2.4L, as well as having a mild hybrid trim. (25/32 mpg and it weighs 4300 pounds. Pretty damn respectible.)

Not to mention that Cadillac has been having great reviews for its cars, as well as Buick.

Of course, what you said is true; GM may well know how to make a great car. It just doesn't understand the market very well.

The 350 is the most produced because America gobbled it up. Globablly speaking the bug engines are the most produced. People in the Dom Rep never bought 350s because they can't afford to run them. So saying it's the most produced is sorta skewed.

The only Caddy I have even remote interest in would be the new CTS-V. I saw it and read about it, and was like "whoa, Caddy really did join BMW and Mercedes in the luxury sports sedan market". And then I saw the interior.

I heard today that ford is going to sell off its mazda share.That sucks if they do.:mad:

The 350 is the most produced because America gobbled it up. Globablly speaking the bug engines are the most produced. People in the Dom Rep never bought 350s because they can't afford to run them. So saying it's the most produced is sorta skewed.

The only Caddy I have even remote interest in would be the new CTS-V. I saw it and read about it, and was like "whoa, Caddy really did join BMW and Mercedes in the luxury sports sedan market". And then I saw the interior.

To say that it is the most produced because America gobbled it up defies logic, to be honest. The production figures I've seen have had the numbers over 90 million for several years. America has a population of a little over 300 million people. That's an assload of engines...

I doubt it will happen, honestly. But hell, if it does, that means I get to work on Hemis in the GM dealerships.

To say that it is the most produced because America gobbled it up defies logic, to be honest. The production figures I've seen have had the numbers over 90 million for several years. America has a population of a little over 300 million people. That's an assload of engines...

*The majority of 350s were made for the US market*, let's put it that way.

*The majority of 350s were made for the US market*, let's put it that way.

Regardless of the dubious production figures you likely do not have to back up a claim, what does it really matter if an engine was made and it the people in one specific country bought many more than another country? That's like saying "You have fewer black friends than I do so you must be racist!"

A good engine is a good engine no matter where it's made or who buys it. People all over the world want engines that work when you need them to for as long as you need them to. It's not a case of Americans want durable engines and people in Czechistan want engines that are made of paper.

Regardless of the dubious production figures you likely do not have to back up a claim, what does it really matter if an engine was made and it the people in one specific country bought many more than another country? That's like saying "You have fewer black friends than I do so you must be racist!"

A good engine is a good engine no matter where it's made or who buys it. People all over the world want engines that work when you need them to for as long as you need them to. It's not a case of Americans want durable engines and people in Czechistan want engines that are made of paper.

Well it's like saying that in circa 1950, TVs were a better invention than a car. Granted, more Tvs could have been sold, but everyone needed a car. I dont know If I'm making sense.

^^ what you are trying to say is Ferraris are crappy cars because most people cant afford them. all argon is saying is that the sbc 350 is reliable and has a large power potential and for these reasons it is one of the most prolific automotive engines of all time. easily in the top five. yes the vw aircooled is also on that list, and arguments of the best engine of all time can go on for all time.

I doubt it will happen, honestly. But hell, if it does, that means I get to work on Hemis in the GM dealerships.

dont be too excited about that. i work in CDJ shop and those hemi's are a pain in the ass. although i have to admit my road test of the srt8 grand cherokee was pretty eye opening.

^^ what you are trying to say is Ferraris are crappy cars because most people cant afford them. all argon is saying is that the sbc 350 is reliable and has a large power potential and for these reasons it is one of the most prolific automotive engines of all time. easily in the top five. yes the vw aircooled is also on that list, and arguments of the best engine of all time can go on for all time.

True. I'm just pointing out that the Vw aircooleds were the most revolutionary engines in the last 70 years. Sure the 350 is a great engine for what it's worth, but the air cooled brough automobiles to so many nations and areas that never had them.

True. I'm just pointing out that the Vw aircooleds were the most revolutionary engines in the last 70 years. Sure the 350 is a great engine for what it's worth, but the air cooled brough automobiles to so many nations and areas that never had them.

So those nations and areas that had rave reviews about the VW engine were too poor to afford water, but could afford a car? Where in the world is it cheaper to buy a car than water?

So those nations and areas that had rave reviews about the VW engine were too poor to afford water, but could afford a car? Where in the world is it cheaper to buy a car than water?

Well, an example would be Germany post WW2. Or Mexico throughout the 50-80s. Or pretty much all of eastern Europe.

Vw aircooleds...revolutionary engines

lol couldn't have been that hard to revolutionise 4 briggs and strattons together

I didn't realise Chevy engines were sold outside of North America. I certainly don't know of any cars here that have them. I'm not saying there aren't cars here that don't have them, I just don't know of any.

I didn't realise Chevy engines were sold outside of North America. I certainly don't know of any cars here that have them. I'm not saying there aren't cars here that don't have them, I just don't know of any.

Might it have something to do with the UK frowning on carbon emmisions and large engines?

Cuba and Mexico has loads of American classics that are daily drivers, one of the most common engines of that era being 350 blocks. Holden also produced alot of muscle cars with a large variety of Chevrolet engines.

That's where your perceptions are wrong. Emissions are much stricter in the American car market than over here. Not that I'm in the UK anyway. As for Cuba and Mexico, isn't that proving Sponsered Link correct? (as much as I hate to admit it)

I think zonko is right.

You keep hearing about some detuned bullshit if someone mentions yank spec when compared to euro spec.

At least that is the case with delorean and lotus.

What about the fact(?) that many Americans like big, powerful/torque-y engines, have places to drive them, jobs/applications that require them, and had plenty of gas to fuel them?

I wouldn't think there as people in the UK and Europe that have farms or live out in the country where that they need a truck with a powerful engine. How many people do you know who have ever had a need to haul firewood or construction materials or a 4wheeler or boat or something? If you live in the city or a suburban area, probably not many. But if you're from a rural area, which the majority of the US is, then you probably don't know many people that haven't ever needed to do those things.

The US is a young country with not as much infrastructure so we need stuff like that. Plus we have lots of resources so we didn't feel as much of a need to worry about efficiency and that stuff, it was cool and we could afford it so we got it.

That's my hypothesis at least. Although I wouldn't doubt that I'm wrong.

What about the fact(?) that many Americans like big, powerful/torque-y engines, have places to drive them, jobs/applications that require them, and had plenty of gas to fuel them?

I wouldn't think there as people in the UK and Europe that have farms or live out in the country where that they need a truck with a powerful engine. How many people do you know who have ever had a need to haul firewood or construction materials or a 4wheeler or boat or something? If you live in the city or a suburban area, probably not many. But if you're from a rural area, which the majority of the US is, then you probably don't know many people that haven't ever needed to do those things.

The US is a young country with not as much infrastructure so we need stuff like that. Plus we have lots of resources so we didn't feel as much of a need to worry about efficiency and that stuff, it was cool and we could afford it so we got it.

That's my hypothesis at least. Although I wouldn't doubt that I'm wrong.

Agreed. I just think the VW was a more innovative and revolutionary engine, regardless of the fact that the 350 outsold it. I haven't heard of passenger cars in south africa using 350s, have you?

That's where your perceptions are wrong. Emissions are much stricter in the American car market than over here. Not that I'm in the UK anyway.

Your location says you are in Ireland, which is in the UK. Emmisions are smaller, but doesn't the EU (or at least the UK) tax carbon emissions? At any rate, insurance rates are already ridiculously high for small engines and are scaled with displacement.

As for Cuba and Mexico, isn't that proving Sponsered Link correct? (as much as I hate to admit it)

Cognitive dissonance, let me show you it:
In psychology, cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling or stress caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.

Do you know what Sponsored Link and I were even talking about? He said that the 350 was maid mainly for America. Not the North American continent or the Americas. That is, the US. Mexico and Cuba are most assuredly not in the US... yet.

Your location says you are in Ireland, which is in the UK.c'mon, now (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom)
Northern Ireland != Ireland

Your location says you are in Ireland, which is in the UK. Emmisions are smaller, but doesn't the EU (or at least the UK) tax carbon emissions? At any rate, insurance rates are already ridiculously high for small engines and are scaled with displacement.



Cognitive dissonance, let me show you it:
In psychology, cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling or stress caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.

Do you know what Sponsored Link and I were even talking about? He said that the 350 was maid mainly for America. Not the North American continent or the Americas. That is, the US. Mexico and Cuba are most assuredly not in the US... yet.

I know Cuba has a somewhat large following for 50-70s yank tanks, but that's largeley due to the fact that they have (had) no other source of cars for a long time. Dunno about Mexico.

I know Cuba has a somewhat large following for 50-70s yank tanks, but that's largeley due to the fact that they have (had) no other source of cars for a long time. Dunno about Mexico.

hur hur hur you sed "yank" :3

hur hur hur you sed "yank" :3

Thats right, COLONIAL!

For should just remake the Pinto and then we'd have a 3-way tie for worst car manufacturer ever.

To be fair though, GM should sell off Buick and Cadillac to the japs before they fuck up the rest of the company even further.

For should just remake the Pinto and then we'd have a 3-way tie for worst car manufacturer ever.

To be fair though, GM should sell off Buick and Cadillac to the japs before they fuck up the rest of the company even further.

Caddy needs to get outsourced to europe. And I don't mean this as a bad thing. But shit, imagine what Merc and Caddy could do if they worked together on some super sedan platform.

Caddy needs to get outsourced to europe. And I don't mean this as a bad thing. But shit, imagine what Merc and Caddy could do if they worked together on some super sedan platform.

A car that could be as popular in the neo-nazi scene as the escalade is in the gangsta scene?

A car that could be as popular in the neo-nazi scene as the escalade is in the gangsta scene?

You try too hard.

Edit:
Gearheads (19 Viewing)
What the fuck?

Also, lulz
http://i34.tinypic.com/2aipjm0.jpg

You try too hard.


I don't think I do.

I find it stupid that a company like GM invests 10 times the necessary R&D when they can simply condense all those shitty brands into maybe 2-3 brands that people will actually have interest in.

Do we really need a GMC truck when there's a Chevy truck? Seriously, little shit like making fewer, better cars could have saved everyone a lot of trouble.

Caddy needs to get outsourced to europe. And I don't mean this as a bad thing. But shit, imagine what Merc and Caddy could do if they worked together on some super sedan platform.

Fuck that. I'm still waiting on my 2.9 Cadillac turbodiesel.

I don't think I do.

I find it stupid that a company like GM invests 10 times the necessary R&D when they can simply condense all those shitty brands into maybe 2-3 brands that people will actually have interest in.

Do we really need a GMC truck when there's a Chevy truck? Seriously, little shit like making fewer, better cars could have saved everyone a lot of trouble.

It's diversification. GMC makes alot of trucks aimed at heavy use, and Chevy trucks have some overlap, but are more for the common use. If anything GMC needs to consolidate it's vehicles into Chevy except for its fleet vehicles. Cadillac and Buick need to consolidate since they vie for essentially the same market. That and Cadillac's current designs are way better. The Buick 3800 is dead as of August 22, so there really isn't anthing that Buick has that just sticks out there anymore. It's a damn shame, too, since it was so damn durable and fuel efficient.

Saturn needs to be left alone since it is a niche market that provides small and fuel-efficient cars along with two semi-SUVs. If you were looking for a Saturn, none of the other brands offer what it does, so there is no need for consolidation.

Pontiac had always competed with Chevrolet in the sporting car market. If GM doesn't have plans to compete with each other, then there is no reason Pontiac needs to stay separate. Pontiac had a great run, but now there is nothing really impresive with it to distinguish it from Chevy except for the Solstice which doesn't compete with anything in the Chevy line. It's sister car looks better anyway.

Really, if GM hadn't made stupid decisions in the 80's by castrating Pontiac and letting the UAW get too large they wouldn't be in this mess and needing to consolidate. Competition is always a good thing, and there has been so little of it lately.

The US is a young country with not as much infrastructure so we need stuff like that. Plus we have lots of resources so we didn't feel as much of a need to worry about efficiency and that stuff, it was cool and we could afford it so we got it.

You're joking, right?

Cadillac and Buick need to consolidate since they vie for essentially the same market. That and Cadillac's current designs are way better.

I suppose you think Mercury and Lincoln vie for the same market, or that the Toyota Avalon vies for the same market as an LS460.

Near-luxury vs luxury class.

I suppose you think Mercury and Lincoln vie for the same market, or that the Toyota Avalon vies for the same market as an LS460.

Near-luxury vs luxury class.

I'm quite aware that Buick has been for near-rich-asshole and Cadillac has been for rich-asshole markets.

There are cars offered by both brands that differ wildly in price range. There is no reason to keep them separate if they use the same technology and have overlapping price ranges. Hell, Buicks are using Northstars, Alloytecs, and Chevy V8's just like Caddy's. GM killed the only Buick engine that was still in use.

Your location says you are in Ireland, which is in the UK.

http://www.google.ie/search?q=world+map < Not sure if you've heard of this before, but give it a go.

North America almost certainly still has a massive proportion of those engines. He said America, which I take as meaning North America, seeing as Canada and to a lesser extent, the poorer countries in North America are essentially the same market as the US, in the context of V8 engines, chevy, etc.

emag, Europe has just as much of a rural economy, if not more. There are also lots of people living in rural areas. Although for torquey engines, (although really, even most farmers don't need them, when they have tractors) diesel is extremely popular here.

Although for torquey engines, (although really, even most farmers don't need them, when they have tractors) diesel is extremely popular here.It's kinda funny that you mention diesels being popular in Europe for applications where Americans use the 350...

I remember one of my professors telling us about how Americans have been resistant to using diesel engines because back in the 70's (or 60's or 80's) GM actually made 350 diesels using the same 350 gasoline engine blocks. Well, as you could imagine, the engines were pieces of shit, and as a result everyone associated the shittyness with diesels, rather than with shitty engineering.

So, one reason 350's are more popular than diesels is because the 350 was once used as a diesel, and failed. So, in a way, its success is the result of its own failure.

That is a rather funny story. I remember reading over there that people associate diesel with smoke, noise and all that stuff. Here, there are a disproportionate amount of diesel cars. I would imagine many more than there are petrol cars, but I'm not sure. Even the young lads here, with lowered souped up cars go mad for diesels.

It's kinda funny that you mention diesels being popular in Europe for applications where Americans use the 350...

I remember one of my professors telling us about how Americans have been resistant to using diesel engines because back in the 70's (or 60's or 80's) GM actually made 350 diesels using the same 350 gasoline engine blocks. Well, as you could imagine, the engines were pieces of shit, and as a result everyone associated the shittyness with diesels, rather than with shitty engineering.

So, one reason 350's are more popular than diesels is because the 350 was once used as a diesel, and failed. So, in a way, its success is the result of its own failure.

The Oldsmobile and Cadillac diesel engines weren't based on any gasoline engines at all. The only apropos things that were common were piston bores. The DX block was quite popular with hot rodders that would take out all the diesel specific parts and convert it to run on gasoline. Those blocks were good to over 1000 hp.

The engines weren't bad for their time and were fairly powerful compared to 5.0s and 5.7s in work trucks, especially considering they didn't have turbochargers. The problem was that they didn't have enough head bolts and the fact that diesel had poor quality control when it got into your tank. Water often got into the fuel and the engine running at 22.5:1 compression didn't take too kindly to that.

I think my truck with a 350 is going to be the better choice to drive 30 miles to work in the middle of winter on icy snowy back roads than a tractor.... And americans aren't afraid of diesels, if anything diesels are getting more popular hear. Is GM still coming out with the 4.5L duramax for 1/2 ton trucks next year? anybody know?

The Oldsmobile and Cadillac diesel engines weren't based on any gasoline engines at all. The only apropos things that were common were piston bores. The DX block was quite popular with hot rodders that would take out all the diesel specific parts and convert it to run on gasoline. Those blocks were good to over 1000 hp.

The engines weren't bad for their time and were fairly powerful compared to 5.0s and 5.7s in work trucks, especially considering they didn't have turbochargers. The problem was that they didn't have enough head bolts and the fact that diesel had poor quality control when it got into your tank. Water often got into the fuel and the engine running at 22.5:1 compression didn't take too kindly to that.I stand corrected. I had tried searching for something on them after he told us but only searched with "chevy" and "GM" and didn't find anything. After reading your post I searched with "oldsmobile" and found this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine#LF9_Diesel):
The Oldsmobile diesel is believed by some to be a converted gasoline engine. While they share the same bore and stroke and some external bolt patterns (transmission and exhaust manifolds) they are quite different.The Oldsmobile diesel engines gained a reputation for unreliability that is credited with almost permanently damaging the North American passenger diesel market.I'll have to bring that up with my professor next time I talk to him.
Thanks for the (correct) engine history lesson. :)