This is worth reading before you vote.



This election has me very worried. So many things to consider. About a year ago I would have voted for Obama. I have changed my mind three times since than. I watch all the news channels, jumping from one to another. I must say this drives my wife crazy. But, I feel if you view MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News, you might get some middle ground to work with. About six months ago, I started thinking 'where did the money come from for Obama'. I have four daughters who went to College, and we were middle class, and money was tight. We (including my girls) worked hard and there were lots of student loans.



I started looking into Obama's life.



Around 1979 Obama started college at Occidental in California . He is very open about his two years at Occidental, he tried all kinds of drugs and was wasting his time but, even though he had a brilliant mind, did not apply himself to his studies. 'Barry' (that was the name he used all his life) during this time had two roommates, Muhammad Hasan Chandoo and Wahid Hamid, both from Pakistan . During the summer of 1981, after his second year in college, he made a 'round the world' trip. Stopping to see his mother in Indonesia , next Hyderabad in India , three weeks in Karachi , Pakistan where he stayed with his roommate's family, then off to Africa to visit his father's family. My question - Where did he get the money for this trip? Nether I, nor any one of my children would have had money for a trip like this when they where in college. When he came back he started school at Columbia University in New York . It is at this time he wants everyone to call him Barack - not Barry. Do you know what the tuition is at Columbia ? It's not cheap to say the least! Where did he get money for tuition? Student Loans? Maybe. After Columbia , he went to Chicago to work as a Community Organizer for $12,000 a year. Why Chicago ? Why not New York ? He was already living in New York .



By 'chance' he met Antoin 'Tony' Rezko, born in Aleppo Syria , and a real estate developer in Chicago . Rezko has been convicted of fraud and bribery this year. Rezko, was named 'Entrepreneur of the Decade' by the Arab-American Business and Professional Association'. About two years later, Obama entered Harvard Law School . Do you have any idea what tuition is for Harvard Law School ? Where did he get the money for Law School ? More student loans? After Law school, he went back to Chicago . Rezko offered him a job, which he turned down. But, he did take a job with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Guess what? They represented 'Rezar' which is Rezko's firm. Rezko was one of Obama's first major financial contributors when he ran for office in Chicago . In 2003, Rezko threw an early fundraiser for Obama which Chicago Tribune reporter David Mendelland claims was instrumental in providing Obama with 'seed money' for his U.S. Senate race. In 2005, Obama purchased a new home in Kenwoood District of Chicago for $1.65 million (less than asking price). With ALL those Student Loans -Where did he get the money for the property? On the same day Rezko's wife, Rita, purchased the adjoining empty lot for full price. The London Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born Billionaire loaned Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before Obama's new home was purchased. Obama met Nadhmi Auchi many times with Rezko.



Now, we have Obama running for President. Valerie Jarrett, was Michele Obama's boss. She is now Obama's chief advisor and he does not make any major decisions without talking to her first. Where was Jarrett born? Ready for this? Shiraz , Iran ! Do we see a pattern here? Or am I going crazy?



On May 10, 2008 The Times reported, Robert Malley, advisor to Obama, was 'sacked' after the press found out he was having regular contacts with 'Hamas', which controls Gaza and is connected with Iran . This past week, buried in the back part of the papers, Iraqi newspapers reported that during Obama's visit to Iraq, he asked their leaders to do nothing about the war until after he is elected, and he will 'Take care of things'.



Oh, and by the way, remember the college roommates that where born in Pakistan ? They are in charge of all those 'small' Internet campaign contributions for Obama. Where is that money coming from? The poor and middle class in this country? Or could it be from the Middle East ?



And the final bit of news. On September 7, 2008, The Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was made on 'This Week' with George Stephanapoulos. Obama on talking about his religion said, 'My Muslim faith'. When questioned, 'he made a mistake'. Some mistake!



All of the above information I got on line. If you would like to check it - Wikipedia, encyclopedia, Barack Obama; Tony Rezko; Valerie Jarrett: Daily Times - Obama visited Pakistan in 1981; The Washington Times - September 7, 2008; The Times May 10, 2008.



Now the BIG question - If I found out all this information on my own, Why haven't all of our 'intelligent' members of the press been reporting this?



A phrase that keeps ringing in my ear - 'Beware of the enemy from within'!!!

Nevermind that this chain email farce overlooked the fact that Barack wrote two very successful books, one of which netted him $4.3 million. People love to speculate endlessly on shit like this knowing absolutely nothing about Barack's personal finances now or ever.

Liberals! Muslims! Oogga booga!

To your credit, at least you aren't circulating that chain mail garbage about how Obama is secretly a muslim terrorist deep cell manchurian wtf'ever candidate.

But honestly, take a look at that for a second and actually think about what was written. Or, if you can't do that much, fucking snopes it.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp

A phrase that keeps ringing in my ear - 'Beware of the enemy from within'!!!

Your OP brings another phrase to mind, albeit one probably not heard often....

'Take your guilt by association desperate smear tactics from a failing presidential contender, and tuck them neatly into the recesses of your ass, you ignorant waste'

Biggest case of tl;dr i've seen since I had to read 'A Room Of Ones Own' by Virginia Woolf: some feminist bitch who bored me at the first line.

Now think about this, we have the most powerful Intelligence agency in the world. I can assure you, anyone even remotely connected to Obama has been thoroughly checked out. All this stuff has been read over and over again by very intelligent agents of the government. Now, if you're saying this is a foreign conspiracy to take over the American Government, then we've already lost. There's no way a foreign intelligence agency can infiltrate our government to the level of running for president without the CIA having full knowledge. And if they did, then obviously somebody very high up in the American government thinks it's a really great idea we're all Irannians.

If this is all true, then McCain's in on it to. There's no reason to believe he's not full on in on the deal, he's as much of an American as Barack is, and much more acquainted with how things supposedly work at the top.

The points about were he got all the money, I don't think that would slip past the CIA either. I've seen some pretty poor people do some really incredible things on not nearly enough money. I have two cousins who've gone through Berkeley and Harvard on a low class ghetto pay-wage, it's not impossible. I just read something a few months ago that said Barack just paid of his student loans. Check this link out to (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/09/michelle-obama-baracks-book-sales-paid-off-our-student-loans/) Yeah, maybe it's a whole conspiracy or whatever, but it's a pretty reasonable explanation.

I'll keep the faith until I see real proof other wise.

:)

op is an idiot

This is worth reading before you vote.

dude, source your claims. what are you talking about?

To your credit, at least you aren't circulating that chain mail garbage about how Obama is secretly a muslim terrorist deep cell manchurian wtf'ever candidate.

But honestly, take a look at that for a second and actually think about what was written. Or, if you can't do that much, fucking snopes it.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp

Truth. Snope everything.

Corn fed white people are gonna blow some shit up.

To your credit, at least you aren't circulating that chain mail garbage about how Obama is secretly a muslim terrorist deep cell manchurian wtf'ever candidate.

But honestly, take a look at that for a second and actually think about what was written. Or, if you can't do that much, fucking snopes it.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp



OH! So snopes = 100% god damned truth! I didnt know that. Thanks for pointing that out. From now on, whenever I need to prove someone wrong, with no doubt left over because I know I am showing them the absolute truth, I will show them snopes.com. Thanks!

OH! So snopes = 100% god damned truth! I didnt know that. Thanks for pointing that out. From now on, whenever I need to prove someone wrong, with no doubt left over because I know I am showing them the absolute truth, I will show them snopes.com. Thanks!

No. I offered it as a substitute for actual critical thinking skills, which the OP and the anonymous source of that chain mail he pasted clearly lack.

More likely McCain is a Manchurian candidate, he's actually gone through the process.
Obama has been overseas to places that most voters can't find on a map. In a perfect world, this should be a good qualification.

Lets be honest here. Fuck historical backgrounds of both candidates and just consider what they are proposing to do if elected. Both candidates will only perpetuate what is flawed with our system instead of correcting it. They do it because they want us to vote for them and vote for their political party members. These people are more concerned with actually getting into office rather than actually fixing the problem. They are both already in government for the love of God. Its not like they are mayors or city councilmen. They are fucking Senators! What... they can't write a Bill and propose the same exact shit in the Senate?!

Every time these guys say shit like "I got a plan for this and a plan for that" or when the media asks for a plan, I get pretty pissed because no one is asking them, "Why don't you go back to work and introduce your plan to your colleagues in the Senate? You just sold it to the American people on National Television, now go back and do your job. You sold it and now your colleagues have to vote for it to make the sale complete. Otherwise they may not serve another term."

Lets be honest here. Fuck historical backgrounds of both candidates and just consider what they are proposing to do if elected. Both candidates will only perpetuate what is flawed with our system instead of correcting it. They do it because they want us to vote for them and vote for their political party members. These people are more concerned with actually getting into office rather than actually fixing the problem. They are both already in government for the love of God. Its not like they are mayors or city councilmen. They are fucking Senators! What... they can't write a Bill and propose the same exact shit in the Senate?!

Every time these guys say shit like "I got a plan for this and a plan for that" or when the media asks for a plan, I get pretty pissed because no one is asking them, "Why don't you go back to work and introduce your plan to your colleagues in the Senate? You just sold it to the American people on National Television, now go back and do your job. You sold it and now your colleagues have to vote for it to make the sale complete. Otherwise they may not serve another term."

I agree 110%. Fuck.

They are Senators, so they are able to just introduce the legislation. Oh what's that fellas? You got a really cool health care idea? FUCKING INTRODUCE THE BILL THEN SHIT HEADS. Seems pretty god damn simple to me. And that's all they would be able to do as President anyway. Hell, even less because they can't vote for their own bill as president.

In the same vein, nobody ever asks "well, ok, how are you going to get Congress to pass your proposed health care plan/war in Iraq shit/tax cuts/whatever?" WHY DOESNT THE PRESS ASSSSKKKK THAT. OMG. I thought it would at least come up in the fucking DEBATES, but then I can just envision McCain saying something like "I've reached across the isle my whole career...blah blah blah...I sat down with Senator Feingold...blah blah...Joe Lieberman....blah blah." And Obama would say something similar.

Aint SHIT going to change with either of these guys. McCains plan to cut corporate taxes and whatnot just won't make it through a Democrat controlled congress. Obama's plans would likely get modified to fuck by members of both parties who have their own idea of what's right. In the end, nothing gets done.

America always has to choose bewtween the "lesser evils" to run their country. Cant they just find someone actually decent?

America always has to choose bewtween the "lesser evils" to run their country. Cant they just find someone actually decent?

No because we want you Canadians to always fear our irrationality. :p

No because we want you Canadians to always fear our irrationality. :p

It just annoys me that we are so heavily influenced by you guys, its like laying in bed with an elephant, the elephant rolls, you move too..
:D

dude, source your claims. what are you talking about?

Wikipedia, encyclopedia, Barack Obama; Tony Rezko; Valerie Jarrett: Daily Times - Obama visited Pakistan in 1981; The Washington Times - September 7, 2008; The Times May 10, 2008.

Your first mistake was watching fox news you idiot.

Obama does not support my right to own a firearm, that most important of rights which allows myself and my fellow countrymen to protect our other privileges.

He will not be getting my vote.

Obama does not support my right to own a firearm, that most important of rights which allows myself and my fellow countrymen to protect our other privileges.

He will not be getting my vote.

Final answer?
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UQTAS80&show_article=1

Final answer?
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UQTAS80&show_article=1
In the Illinois Senate Debate no. 3, Obama vs. Alan Keyes, which took place on 10-21-03, Barack Obama made clear his intention to ban hundreds of rifles and shotguns commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

Concerning S. 397 v. 219, 7-29-05, Barack Obama voted to allow lawsuits against the firearms industry which would eliminate the manufacturing of guns in the United States through frivolous lawsuits over the actions of third party purchasers. In s. 397 v. 217, he voted to ban much common ammunition routinely used for hunting and sport shooting purposes.

On his campaign website, dated 12-11-07, it was noted that Barack Obama supported a mandate which would require all firearms owners to register their weapons.

Finally, if you look at an article in the Chicago Defender dated 12-13-99, Obama voted to increase taxes on firearms and ammunition fivefold.

In the Illinois Senate Debate no. 3, Obama vs. Alan Keyes, which took place on 10-21-03, Barack Obama made clear his intention to ban hundreds of rifles and shotguns commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

Concerning S. 397 v. 219, 7-29-05, Barack Obama voted to allow lawsuits against the firearms industry which would eliminate the manufacturing of guns in the United States through frivolous lawsuits over the actions of third party purchasers. In s. 397 v. 217, he voted to ban much common ammunition routinely used for hunting and sport shooting purposes.

On his campaign website, dated 12-11-07, it was noted that Barack Obama supported a mandate which would require all firearms owners to register their weapons.

Finally, if you look at an article in the Chicago Defender dated 12-13-99, Obama voted to increase taxes on firearms and ammunition fivefold.

And none of those have anything to do with your right to own guns. I'm anti-gun control as much as anyone in W&C, but I'm also a person who isn't going to bullshit around and I'm going to call a spade a spade. If you have an issue with him on gun control, that is completely different than saying he doesn't see that you have a Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

In fact, if you weren't such a moron that believes every piece of propaganda that you hear from gun nuts you would have done your own research and not said some asinine statement that " Barack Obama made clear his intention to ban hundreds of rifles and shotguns commonly used for hunting and sport shooting."

What he had to say was this:
OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.

http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm

Nothing at all to do with banning guns.

Wake up already!

The fact that Obama perhaps does not outright admit to an aversion of the Second Amendment doesn't necessarily mean that he wouldn't like to see the majority of law abiding Americans disarmed through a roundabout means. Voting for a ban on commonly used rifles, shotguns, and ammunition quickly takes millions of firearms out of the equation.

Furthermore, voting to allow frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers ensures one thing: that those manufacturers will be sued out of business, causing job losses at multiple levels including the manufacture and sales of said arms. This would prevent new firearms from reaching the marketplace.

Finally, voting to increase taxes by five hundred percent on firearms and ammunition would price many individuals out of purchasing such.

The fact that Obama perhaps does not outright admit to an aversion of the Second Amendment doesn't necessarily mean that he wouldn't like to see the majority of law abiding Americans disarmed through a roundabout means. Voting for a ban on commonly used rifles, shotguns, and ammunition quickly takes millions of firearms out of the equation.


And he has said many times he believes in the 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms. Ron Paul also says it. Do you think that Ron Fucking Paul might want to "see the majority of law abiding Americans disarmed through a roundabout means?" What a fucking load of shit.

Furthermore, I can't find anything about him supporting, or even voting for, a ban o "rifles, shotguns, and ammunition." On the topic of wishing to ban handguns, the only things I can find are over a decade old.

Furthermore, voting to allow frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers ensures one thing: that those manufacturers will be sued out of business, causing job losses at multiple levels including the manufacture and sales of said arms. This would prevent new firearms from reaching the marketplace.

Frivolous lawsuits? Nigga please!

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0500gunconlaw.htm
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2008/04/30/gunsuit_0501.html

This shit happens all the fucking time.

Finally, voting to increase taxes by five hundred percent on firearms and ammunition would price many individuals out of purchasing such.

Are you Trig Palin or something? Seriously, gtfo and go back to sucking the NRA's short knob.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nra_targets_obama.html

I think Obama is going to have more important things to worry about than banning firearms

Nevermind that this chain email farce overlooked the fact that Barack wrote two very successful books, one of which netted him $4.3 million. People love to speculate endlessly on shit like this knowing absolutely nothing about Barack's personal finances now or ever.

This.

Liberals! Muslims! Oogga booga!I lol'd.

I think Obama is going to have more important things to worry about than banning firearms

This.

Also, just because a politician wants to do something, doesn't mean he/she will be allowed to. Obama wanting to ban guns isn't a death sentence for your second amendment right. They're not allowed to just take away bits and pieces of the constitution. Well, president Bush did it, but the American people aren't frightened and confused enough right now to agree to stupid shit like they were after 9/11.

Nevermind that this chain email farce overlooked the fact that Barack wrote two very successful books, one of which netted him $4.3 million. People love to speculate endlessly on shit like this knowing absolutely nothing about Barack's personal finances now or ever.

Liberals! Muslims! Oogga booga!

I strongly suggest that OP be banned on the grounds of defacement.

This egregious bullshit should not go unpunished.

I strongly suggest that OP be banned on the grounds of defacement.

This egregious bullshit should not go unpunished.

Wow. Just because someone posted something you do not agree with, you are gonna ban him with a bullshit excuse?

The worst thing OP did was posted something that was arguably a conspiracy theory or some sort of nonsense. He doesn't deserve to be banned over it.

Obama isnt even a US citizen, he can't run for president. www.obamacrimes.com Theres a lawsuit over it go read up.

Now think about this, we have the most powerful Intelligence agency in the world. I can assure you, anyone even remotely connected to Obama has been thoroughly checked out. All this stuff has been read over and over again by very intelligent agents of the government. Now, if you're saying this is a foreign conspiracy to take over the American Government, then we've already lost. There's no way a foreign intelligence agency can infiltrate our government to the level of running for president without the CIA having full knowledge. And if they did, then obviously somebody very high up in the American government thinks it's a really great idea we're all Irannians.

If this is all true, then McCain's in on it to. There's no reason to believe he's not full on in on the deal, he's as much of an American as Barack is, and much more acquainted with how things supposedly work at the top.
Noob just stop the CIA is the worlds mos t powerful criminal syndicate, im not even get goin on that topic. What happen to JFK who said he was gonna shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces? Just stop

Obama isnt any different than any other mainstream canidate, he sucks and wont change anything.

Regarding the visits to Pakistan mentioned. At the time Obama went Pakistan was a no travel zone for Americans when he visited there. Sooo which passport did he use to get in? hhhmmm.

I'm all for setting the record straight that yes he was a muslim at somepoint in time, yes he was born in Kenya. But honestly I dont give a shit, it doesnt affect whether I would vote for him. And that is arrogant if that changes anyones vote. I disagree with him on virtually every issue, i dont care where he was born or what religion he was. But legally he can't run, unless he provides a real US birth certificate, which shouldnt be that hard right?

Obama isnt even a US citizen, he can't run for president. www.obamacrimes.com Theres a lawsuit over it go read up.

The process of being sued doesn't mean anything, and if I recall correctly, it doesn't even mean that he's not a United States citizen if the judge rules against him. It just means that he can't legally be president.

That said, I don't think there's a ruling yet, which makes your claim completely without merit.

You honestly fucking think he'd have made it this far if he wasn't a Natural born citizen?

You honestly fucking think he'd have made it this far if he wasn't a Natural born citizen?

Maybe he is a citizen (because his mother is one), but he wasn't born on US soil? Wouldn't that disqualify him?

Come to think of it this rule is kind of weird. So if someones born on US soil but grew up in another country he would be eligible to run for president...

Maybe he is a citizen (because his mother is one), but he wasn't born on US soil? Wouldn't that disqualify him?

"Natural-born citizen: is a term used in some countries to describe a certain kind of citizenship in terms of a requirement for eligibility to serve as head of state of a given country. It is mentioned in the United States Constitution as a requirement for the President and Vice President of the US."

Natural born meaning he was born there?

Aren't Chinks supposed to be intelligenter than the rest of us?

"Natural-born citizen: is a term used in some countries to describe a certain kind of citizenship in terms of a requirement for eligibility to serve as head of state of a given country. It is mentioned in the United States Constitution as a requirement for the President and Vice President of the US."

Natural born meaning he was born there?

Aren't Chinks supposed to be intelligenter than the rest of us?

Dont be too quick to call me chink, for you are pretty much one yourself.

Also, disparaging a fellow non-white is not going to elevate the status of your crappy people in the eyes of whites, so keep calling me chink some more and see if the white people on the boards will starting call you one of their own.

Also, I asked a genuine question. I was under the impression that in order to run for presidency one needs to not only be a citizen, but also actually born on US soil...maybe I am mistaken, not sure.

Dont be too quick to call me chink, for you are pretty much one yourself.

Also, disparaging a fellow non-white is not going to elevate the status of your crappy people in the eyes of whites, so keep calling me chink some more and see if the white people on the boards will starting call you one of their own.

Also, I asked a genuine question. I was under the impression that in order to run for presidency one needs to not only be a citizen, but also actually born on US soil...maybe I am mistaken, not sure.

I call you a chink, as you're Asian. I am not Asian. Calling me a Chink is the equivalent of calling everyone a nigger because everyone comes from Sub Saharan Africa. I don't put that level of stupidity past you though. I actually think it's cute when you try and troll intelligently.

ALSO

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ALSO

I call you a chink, as you're Asian. I am not Asian. Calling me a Chink is the equivalent of calling everyone a nigger because everyone comes from Sub Saharan Africa. I don't put that level of stupidity past you though. I actually think it's cute when you try and troll intelligently.

ALSO

ALSO

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ALSO

Native Americans are a subset of Asians. You are A KIND of chink. Keep denying it see if the white people you so revere will cease to consider you a shit-coloured mud.

Native Americans are a subset of Asians. You are A KIND of chink. Keep denying it see if the white people you so revere will cease to consider you a shit-coloured mud.

No, it isn't. They come from an entirely different haplo group which doesn't even branch remotely close to East Asians.

Try again.

To answer your question; Someone running for P/VP has to be a NATURAL BORN(born on US SOIL) Citizen. I think I already said that, but just to add emphasis I'll state it again.

No, it isn't. They come from an entirely different haplo group which doesn't even branch remotely close to East Asians.

Try again.

To answer your question; Someone running for P/VP has to be a NATURAL BORN(born on US SOIL) Citizen. I think I already said that, but just to add emphasis I'll state it again.

Just because they come from an entirely different haplo group it doesn't mean they aren't a subset of chinks.

lol@ your attempt at distancing yourself from chinkhood. Do it some more, I think some of the white people are starting to want to embrace you as one of their own.

Just because they come from an entirely different haplo group it doesn't mean they aren't a subset of chinks.

lol@ your attempt at distancing yourself from chinkhood. Do it some more, I think some of the white people are starting to want to embrace you as one of their own.

Yes, it does idiot. You don't even know what a Haplo group is, cocksmoke.

I'm going to cease replying to you from this point on, wannabe whiteboy.

Yes, it does idiot. You don't even know what a Haplo group is, cocksmoke.

I'm going to cease replying to you from this point on, wannabe whiteboy.

I don't need to know what a Haplo group is to know that you are ARBITRARILY using it to categorize your shitty people into non-chinks.

Yeah that's right, run away from me, cause you know you can't beat me in a debate.

I don't need to know what a Haplo group is to know that you are ARBITRARILY using it to categorize your shitty people into non-chinks.


No, it is what it is. Don't use words you can't comprehend.

1. Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice.

What you're saying is, English and Swahili are closely linguistically related because they are both spoken languages?

No, it is what it is. Don't use words you can't comprehend.

1. Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice.

What you're saying is, English and Swahili are closely linguistically related because they are both spoken languages?

lol? I thought you were gonna cease replying to me? Why are you now running back, lil quasi-chink?

Also, I never said English and Swahaili are closely linguistically related because they are both spoken languages. Stop putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is, you arbitrarily chose an attribute(which in this case, the absence or presence of the Haplo group) to be the criterion for whether someone is Asian, when there is not even any consensus in the science community as to what really constitutes a race (much less what separates one race from another).

Tell me, why does possessing the haplo group magically transform someone from being asian to being non-asian (or native Indian, whatever you are claiming. I am not an expert on genetics and never claimed to be one)? Are you saying that just because there exists some sort of genetic difference between two groups of people (as in, Indians and Asians), it automatically separates them into two distinct races? By your reasoning, a red haired person is of a difference racial group than a blonde-haired person because they share a genetic difference...

The process of being sued doesn't mean anything, and if I recall correctly, it doesn't even mean that he's not a United States citizen if the judge rules against him. It just means that he can't legally be president.

That said, I don't think there's a ruling yet, which makes your claim completely without merit.

I apologize that was poorly worded. If it is found out that he was born in Kenya and not the US, then he was a natural born Kenyan citizen. Then he would of had to go through the proper channels and paperwork to become a US citizen. Also hed have to take that oath or whatever you have to take, which he never took. And the president has to be a natural born US citizen. He could become a legitimate US citizen now, but he can't be president cuz he was born in Kenya. All he has to do is provide a legitimate legal Hawaiian birth certificate, it shouldnt be that hard...

Wow. Just because someone posted something you do not agree with, you are gonna ban him with a bullshit excuse?

The worst thing OP did was posted something that was arguably a conspiracy theory or some sort of nonsense. He doesn't deserve to be banned over it.

It was also plaigerism and--arguably--libel. Both of which are crimes.

To answer your question; Someone running for P/VP has to be a NATURAL BORN(born on US SOIL) Citizen. I think I already said that, but just to add emphasis I'll state it again.

A swing and a huge fucking miss....

The requirements for citizenship and the very definition thereof have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788. Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S. parents overseas on March 26, 1790, under the first naturalization law: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

I can post the supreme court cases that uphold this if you like.

Obama is a natural born citizen, born overseas to American parents. This is a fact. The great thing about this absolute fact, is that nothing any moron can say or do will change the factual nature of this fact.

Did I mention it was an irrefutable fact?

It was also plaigerism and--arguably--libel. Both of which are crimes.

Plagerism is not a criminal offense. It is not a crime.

As far as libel goes...give me a fucking break. If the cast at Fox News is not charged with libel slander, I see no reason to charge a totse troll with it.

This troll should not be banned, b/c he trolls.

A swing and a huge fucking miss....

The requirements for citizenship and the very definition thereof have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788. Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S. parents overseas on March 26, 1790, under the first naturalization law: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

I can post the supreme court cases that uphold this if you like.

Obama is a natural born citizen, born overseas to American parents. This is a fact. The great thing about this absolute fact, is that nothing any moron can say or do will change the factual nature of this fact.

Did I mention it was an irrefutable fact?

So someone who isn't born on US soil can run for P/VP?

It's also a fact that Obama was born oversea's? I could've sworn he was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Hawaii.

I like your cute little insults thrown in, they really are cute.

Plagerism is not a criminal offense. It is not a crime.

As far as libel goes...give me a fucking break. If the cast at Fox News is not charged with libel slander, I see no reason to charge a totse troll with it.

This troll should not be banned, b/c he trolls.

New York Times Co. v. Sullivan effectively makes it very difficult to prove slander/libel charges against news outlets.

It's also a fact that Obama was born oversea's? I could've sworn he was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Hawaii.

well thats the debate. www.obamacrimes.com had some good info. he has never provided an authentic hawaiin birth certificate thats the problem. He posted a pic of one on his website but no one has seen his "real" one.

Obama is a natural born citizen, born overseas to American parents. This is a fact. The great thing about this absolute fact, is that nothing any moron can say or do will change the factual nature of this fact.
Uh your the one with a big swing and a miss. It is saying if your parents are born overseas and you are born on US soil then you are a US citizen.

Also if I remember correctly Obama's mom gave birth to him when she was 16 (or thats what the theory says) and becuz of immigration and naturalization laws at the time it was impossible for her to be a US citizen. Or something along the lines of that, i dont feel like looking up that argument exactly.

It's also a fact that Obama was born oversea's? I could've sworn he was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Hawaii.

That isn't the argument being made is it? I am arguing that regardless of where the man was born, he was born of citizens, and is thus considered a natural born citizen eligible to run for president.

This is what the fuck you said:

To answer your question; Someone running for P/VP has to be a NATURAL BORN(born on US SOIL) Citizen.

To which I responded with:

Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S. parents overseas on March 26, 1790, under the first naturalization law: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

You are and were clearly wrong in your statement. You don't have to admit it for it to be painfully obvious how fucking wrong you are and were.

So someone who isn't born on US soil can run for P/VP?

Clearly, yes.
1,000,000,000% yes.
A fact.
The truth.

Ask me again and I am thinking of spamming yes until I pass out and have a nose bleed, attempting to understand how someone who can read, can be this stupid.

New York Times Co. v. Sullivan effectively makes it very difficult to prove slander/libel charges against news outlets.

Great then, so an individual who plagerizes a news outlet accused of slander, is going to be even harder to prosecute...

My point, the troll committed no crime or totse offense with his trollish OP.

So someone who isn't born on US soil can run for P/VP?


hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

If you have no idea what you are talking about, why the fuck are you making such bold accusations?

You are in for a shocker.

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Brace yourself.

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McCain was born in Panama.

I'm not saying he's not a US citizen. The Panama canal zone was US territory at the same, but if his parents had driven a few hours to go to the beach, and he had been born on that trip, according to your interpretation of things, he'd be disqualified from the presidency. That's why we have laws like that in place.

Uh your the one with a big swing and a miss. It is saying if your parents are born overseas and you are born on US soil then you are a US citizen.

A 16 year old is a citizen of the country they were born in, unless they change it. I wouldn't want to look up that horseshit either, only to be proven wrong.

It clearly states:

Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S. parents overseas on March 26, 1790, under the first naturalization law: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."

Read it veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slowly before posting. Take some time, mull it over, and get back to me with something like this:

"You are right, and I was just now, clearly wrong".

Toodles.

well thats the debate. www.obamacrimes.com had some good info. he has never provided an authentic hawaiin birth certificate thats the problem. He posted a pic of one on his website but no one has seen his "real" one.

And not everyone has a "real" or original one. I have two cousins who lost theirs in a fire.

A 16 year old is a citizen of the country they were born in, unless they change it. I wouldn't want to look up that horseshit either, only to be proven wrong

And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."


well....

No hospital birth certificate has been produced to prove Obama was born in Hawaii, only a certificate of birth registry after the fact,

Barack's mother could have flown from Kenya to Hawaii right after the birth, then reported that she had the child at home, in order to secure her son's US citizenship.

According to the law at that time, a parent could pass US citizenship on to a child born abroad if the parent was at least 19 years old. Obama's mother was only 18.
And his dad was not a US citizen at Obama's birth, he just got to the US to attend college on a scholarship in 1959.

Barack Obama born August 4, 1961

Ann Dunham born November 29, 1942

And not everyone has a "real" or original one. I have two cousins who lost theirs in a fire.
well two things. He could have come out and said he lost it in a flood or fire. But the bigger issue is that the state of Hawaii will have a copy. It wouldnt take too much time or effort to pick up a copy or the original from them. And anyone following the news knows hes been flying to Hawaii a lot lately to visit his ailing grandma, he could get it while hes there.

Obama was registered [in Indonesian school] under the name Barry Soetoro by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. The school card lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen
However
Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would still recognize Obama as an American citizen.
So unless he can prove he was in fact a US citizen born here, he may also have been an Indonesian citizen along with being a Kenyan citizen

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

Seriously, it says, green and white, "Certification of Live Birth."

Now, whether or not the facts are that his mother made a beeline from Kenya to Hawaii is true, how can you prove it? You can't unless somene admits this to be true, and no one has yet come forward. It's a witch hunt to push that issue.

The fact is that Obama has a birth certificate from the Hawaii state government stating he was born in Honolulu. That is fact, and it is going to be damn near impossible to prove that Obama's mother had him in Kenya. I mean, seriously, do you honestly think that no one in any government agency has checked to make for damn sure Obama and McCain are natural born citizens? What, do you think that the Constitution just says the shit it says in order to put foreigners in their place? Do you think any noncitizen could with the presidential election and no one would bother to check his credentials?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

If you have no idea what you are talking about, why the fuck are you making such bold accusations?

You are in for a shocker.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.


Brace yourself.

.

.

.

.

McCain was born in Panama.

I'm not saying he's not a US citizen. The Panama canal zone was US territory at the same, but if his parents had driven a few hours to go to the beach, and he had been born on that trip, according to your interpretation of things, he'd be disqualified from the presidency. That's why we have laws like that in place.

Even had Panama not been a US territory, he was born on an Air Force Base, which if I'm not mistaken would be US property. I was wrong, woopdeefuckingdoo. You act as if it's some sort of great life accomplishment to be correct on totse, if only BP could apply his intelligence on here to something productive in real life, his economic woes wouldn't be so. :rolleyes:

The fact is that Obama has a birth certificate from the Hawaii state government stating he was born in Honolulu. That is fact, and it is going to be damn near impossible to prove that Obama's mother had him in Kenya. I mean, seriously, do you honestly think that no one in any government agency has checked to make for damn sure Obama and McCain are natural born citizens? What, do you think that the Constitution just says the shit it says in order to put foreigners in their place? Do you think any noncitizen could with the presidential election and no one would bother to check his credentials?

Dude thats not a Brith certificate:
1. No attending physician signature or license number
2. No address for the attending physician or hospital
3. No parent signature
4. No parent DOB or age of parent or parent place of birth.
5. Father’s race would not be “African”, that is country of origin. Race would be black or Negro (1960’s) at that time Hawaii used negro to describe a black person
6. No Registrars name or signature.

A birth certificate has all those things i listed.

What, do you think that the Constitution just says the shit it says in order to put foreigners in their place?
Well if you have been in the US or following it lately you would have noticed what the constitution says really hasn't mattered that much lately. And Obama has been stripping away those constituional rights also. But I digress I dont want to get sidetracked from this.

Now look at this Hawaiin Birth certificate from 1963, 2 years after he was born

http://snarkybytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg

Now, whether or not the facts are that his mother made a beeline from Kenya to Hawaii is true, how can you prove it? You can't unless somene admits this to be true, and no one has yet come forward. It's a witch hunt to push that issue.

Well what I can and have proved is that Obama is not a US citizen. Which automatically begs those questions. A witch hunt? Personally I feel whether or not the next president of the United States can legally run is a very legitimate question.

Do you think any noncitizen could with the presidential election and no one would bother to check his credentials?
Apparently you missed the link which I posted earlier to www.obamacrimes.com. Phil Berg sued Obama demanding he provide proof of US citenship.
Pennsylvania Democrat Philip J. Berg, who filed a lawsuit demanding Sen. Barack Obama present proof of his American citizenship, now says that by failing to respond Obama has legally "admitted" to the lawsuit's accusations, including the charge that the Democratic candidate was born in Mombosa, Kenya.

As WND reported, Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court in August, alleging Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus ineligible to serve as president of the United States. Though Obama has posted an image of a Hawaii birth certificate online, Berg demands that the court verify the original document, which the Obama campaign has not provided.

Now Berg cites Rule 36 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which states that unless the accused party provides written answer or objection to charges within 30 days, the accused legally admits the matter.

Since Obama has only filed motions to dismiss and has not actually answered the charges in the lawsuit, Berg claims, according to Rule 36, Obama has legally admitted he is not a natural-born citizen.

Now Berg is asking the court for a formal declaration of Obama's admission and asking the Democratic National Committee for another presidential candidate.

In a statement released today, Berg argues that he filed Requests for Admissions on Sept. 15, meaning Obama had until Oct. 15 to answer or face the consequences of Rule 36.

"Obama and the DNC 'admitted,' by way of failure to timely respond to Requests for Admissions, all of the numerous specific requests in the Federal lawsuit," Berg's statement reads. "Obama is 'not qualified' to be president and therefore Obama must immediately withdraw his candidacy for president and the DNC shall substitute a qualified candidate."

However today the 29th the Philadelphia Federal Court dismissed the case after this. Phil Berg has appealed to the Supreme Court. I guess at this point it doesn't matter how it plays out. But how come the DNC and Barack Obama did not just provide proof of citizenship, why instead let the 30 days go by and then file a motion to dismiss? This would be over if he could provide an authentic birth certificte. All he has to do is get one from the state.

I didn't need to read the entire OP or the worthlessly petty debate inside this thread to agree with the title;


I'm already scared.

Well what I can and have proved is that Obama is not a US citizen.

The only thing you have proven is that you are an idiot.

Dude thats not a Brith certificate:
1. No attending physician signature or license number
2. No address for the attending physician or hospital
3. No parent signature
4. No parent DOB or age of parent or parent place of birth.
5. Father’s race would not be “African”, that is country of origin. Race would be black or Negro (1960’s) at that time Hawaii used negro to describe a black person
6. No Registrars name or signature.

A birth certificate has all those things i listed.

Final answer?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2033434/posts?page=46#46

Regardless, do you honestly think that a man who is almost assured to be the most powerful person on the planet can't even grease enough palms to get that stuff forged with an official government stamp, and instead has to resort to a shitty shoop?

And Obama has been stripping away those constituional rights also.

Yea.... I have lived in America my entire life and I am quite aware of Constitutional erosion at the hands of the neoconservative machine. But you bring up something I've never heard of before, that of a Constitutional law professor actually "stripping away" Constitutional rights. Care to explain yourself, or are you borrowing Hannity's script for his next show?

I'm getting sick of this shit. You think that it is important enough to go one a fucking witch hunt about this that you will spare $5 whole fucking dollars to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama is not a natural-born citizen? http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html

Letters of Verification

Letters of verification may be issued in lieu of certified copies (HRS §338-14.3). This document verifies the existence of a birth/death/marriage/divorce certificate on file with the Department of Health and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event. (For example, that a certain named individual was born on a certain date at a certain place.) The verification process will not, however, disclose information about the vital event contained within the certificate that is unknown to and not provided by the applicant in the request.

Letters of verification are requested in similar fashion and using the same request forms as for certified copies.

The fee for a letter of verification is $5 per letter.

Do you honestly think that I am the only person in the entire United States that have found this information? Do you honestly think that no one would check this shit out?

Phil Berg sued Obama demanding he provide proof of US citenship.

Fuck Phil Berg. I shouldn't have to prove to anyone that I am a US citizen except where required to by law to the government and to my employer. You wanna talk about erosion of civil liberties and in the same breath give credence to the "papers, please" mentality? Well fuck you too.

first off the link you posted shows a real Certification of Live Birth document that looks quite different than Obama's, and it clearly has a raised seal unlike Obama's. Not really sure why you posted that link.

Regardless, do you honestly think that a man who is almost assured to be the most powerful person on the planet can't even grease enough palms to get that stuff forged with an official government stamp, and instead has to resort to a shitty shoop?
Looks like that is what happened. But playing the what if game doesnt accomplish anything. You can ask yourself as many rhetorical questions as you want, but that wont bring any of us closer to the truth. We need to focus on what we do know.

Yea.... I have lived in America my entire life and I am quite aware of Constitutional erosion at the hands of the neoconservative machine. But you bring up something I've never heard of before, that of a Constitutional law professor actually "stripping away" Constitutional rights. Care to explain yourself, or are you borrowing Hannity's script for his next show?

Obama has not been very friendly towards the second amendment thats no secret. Gun sales have been on the rise because people fear a democratic president will place tougher restrictions. He has spoken out against the torture used by the government and the CIA. However he has not said he would close Guantanamo or those CIA sites around the world where they bring people into foreign countries and torture them. Hes more for oversight and regularion of interrogations, and not so much for ending them and Guantanamo all together. He voted for the reauthorization Patriot Act, and he voted for the FISA domestic wiretapping bill. He also voted for a bill granting telecommunications companies immunity from lawsuits over them helping the Bush administration conduct wiretapping without a warrant. I don't see him calling to abolish the unconstitutional federal reserve or the unconstitutional income tax.

so yes i stand by my earlier statement

Fuck Phil Berg. I shouldn't have to prove to anyone that I am a US citizen except where required to by law to the government and to my employer. You wanna talk about erosion of civil liberties and in the same breath give credence to the "papers, please" mentality? Well fuck you too.
I am against the national ID card and anything like that, we shouldnt have to carry papers everywhere. However when people raise legitimate questions about whether the person who could become president of the most powerful country on earth is a citizen those questions should be answered. And he failed to do that in court as I've stated. I never said he should carry around his papers everywhere and show everyone, I asked he show an authentic birth certificate thats it.

Looks like that is what happened. But playing the what if game doesnt accomplish anything. You can ask yourself as many rhetorical questions as you want, but that wont bring any of us closer to the truth. We need to focus on what we do know.


That's kind of the point. You don't -know- anything except the tidbits the media has fed you, typically that which is dished out by the prosecutor. You can't try the case here with any sort of reasonable expectation of an honest result, because you don't have all, or even most of the facts. More, you don't have the legal schooling to make a constitutional call, to decide what exactly qualifies him as natural-born.

Everything here is speculation. Until he is tried AND found guilty, you have nothing. By law, the man is innocent and every bit as qualified to be president as he claims he is.

Obama has not been very friendly towards the second amendment thats no secret. Gun sales have been on the rise because people fear a democratic president will place tougher restrictions.

Or could it be that people who are buying up guns are complete fucking morons? %23 of Texans still believe he is a Muslim, for fucks sake: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html

And you sound like an idiotic Paul supporter. Guess what? I like Paul too, dumbass, but I'm not going to stand for asswipes like yourself to slander other people's record with absolute lies.

I am against the national ID card and anything like that, we shouldnt have to carry papers everywhere. However when people raise legitimate questions about whether the person who could become president of the most powerful country on earth is a citizen those questions should be answered. And he failed to do that in court as I've stated. I never said he should carry around his papers everywhere and show everyone, I asked he show an authentic birth certificate thats it.

Again, fuck you. I'm very much for keeping my business my business. Showing some bureacrat your papers is much different than showing the world your personal information, and I'd much rather keep it that way. I shouldn't have to show another citizen anything about my citizenship. EVER. I shouldn't have to provide my driver's license, I shouldnt have to provide my social security number, I shouldn't have to provide my CCP, etc, and I for damn sure shouldn't have to provide them because some whiney bitch named Phil Berg sues me to see it. It's a fucking abuse of the courts and it provides dangerous precedent.

Again, fuck you. I'm very much for keeping my business my business. Showing some bureacrat your papers is much different than showing the world your personal information, and I'd much rather keep it that way. I shouldn't have to show another citizen anything about my citizenship. EVER. I shouldn't have to provide my driver's license, I shouldnt have to provide my social security number, I shouldn't have to provide my CCP, etc, and I for damn sure shouldn't have to provide them because some whiney bitch named Phil Berg sues me to see it. It's a fucking abuse of the courts and it provides dangerous precedent.

But if he wants to run for presidency shouldn't he show the relevant authority that he indeed is qualified to run?

Liberals! Muslims! Oogga booga!

i totally agree, this musleem, terrorists, zebra nigger, MUST NOT WIN

But if he wants to run for presidency shouldn't he show the relevant authority that he indeed is qualified to run?

Which is why I've already stated that I am certain that someone in some government office has checked him out, and came up with the conclusion that he is a natural-born citizen, just like McCain. Like I said, the Constitution doesn't just have words printed on it that mean nothing.

Or could it be that people who are buying up guns are complete fucking morons? %23 of Texans still believe he is a Muslim, for fucks sake
Explain to me what that has to do with Obama trying to restrict our right to bear arms?

Which is why I've already stated that I am certain that someone in some government office has checked him out, and came up with the conclusion that he is a natural-born citizen, just like McCain. Like I said, the Constitution doesn't just have words printed on it that mean nothing.
Well shouldnt that "someone" come out and prove Phil Berg wrong, or I'm sure the DNC could have found this "someone". Instead they didnt give any evidence hes a citizen they got the case dismissed. They wouldnt need to get the case dismissed if Obama could just prove hes a citizen.

I'm not going to stand for asswipes like yourself to slander other people's record with absolute lies.
Slander his record? I pointed out how his record is against the constitution. Look up everything I said he voted for, all of those are facts. Whether or not those bills are right or wrong is an opinion and debatble. But what is not debatable is his voting record against our constitution

also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTs1YyhFRg

Explain to me what that has to do with Obama trying to restrict our right to bear arms?

Only when you explain how people buying guns means Obama is trying to restrict guns rights. :rolleyes:

I pointed out how his record is against the constitution.

Nigger, don't play that game. McCain is on thinner ice about his citizenship than Obama.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/

You have lies and slander against Obama and I have facts and a legal minefield against McCain.

But what is not debatable is his voting record against our constitution

I've already told you to tell me exactly where he has "voted against the Constitution." Or do I need to invoke the same legalistic terms your buttfuck buddy Berg does to show that you have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about?

Nigger, don't play that game. McCain is on thinner ice about his citizenship than Obama.
well Mccain has already provided the proper documentation to prove hes a citizen. Yes that question was posed and he immediatley provided a birth certificate and other documents that proved he was in fact a legal natural born citizen. Im not gonna get into that cuz its been covered already.

I've already told you to tell me exactly where he has "voted against the Constitution." Or do I need to invoke the same legalistic terms your buttfuck buddy Berg does to show that you have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about?

well leme quote my previous post...

Obama has not been very friendly towards the second amendment thats no secret. Gun sales have been on the rise because people fear a democratic president will place tougher restrictions. He has spoken out against the torture used by the government and the CIA. However he has not said he would close Guantanamo or those CIA sites around the world where they bring people into foreign countries and torture them. Hes more for oversight and regularion of interrogations, and not so much for ending them and Guantanamo all together. He voted for the reauthorization Patriot Act, and he voted for the FISA domestic wiretapping bill. He also voted for a bill granting telecommunications companies immunity from lawsuits over them helping the Bush administration conduct wiretapping without a warrant. I don't see him calling to abolish the unconstitutional federal reserve or the unconstitutional income tax.

Looks like you got amendments 1,2,4, and 8 that he has voted against.

I have facts and a legal minefield against McCain.
Well Mccain voted against the same amendments plus the 5th amendment. If you wanna make me explain the different laws and rulings that make Mccain a legal naturalized citizen I'd be happy to.

Only when you explain how people buying guns means Obama is trying to restrict guns rights
Because people understand Obama's voting record against the 2nd amendment, dating from his days in the Illinois legislature.

Only when you explain how people buying guns means Obama is trying to restrict guns rights
well we could also get into the legal technicalities Obama and the DNC used to get the suit thrown out, instead of providing proper documentation of his citizenship.

well leme quote my previous post...

Quote:
Obama has not been very friendly towards the second amendment thats no secret. Gun sales have been on the rise because people fear a democratic president will place tougher restrictions. He has spoken out against the torture used by the government and the CIA. However he has not said he would close Guantanamo or those CIA sites around the world where they bring people into foreign countries and torture them. Hes more for oversight and regularion of interrogations, and not so much for ending them and Guantanamo all together. He voted for the reauthorization Patriot Act, and he voted for the FISA domestic wiretapping bill. He also voted for a bill granting telecommunications companies immunity from lawsuits over them helping the Bush administration conduct wiretapping without a warrant. I don't see him calling to abolish the unconstitutional federal reserve or the unconstitutional income tax.

Not been friendly to the second amendment? Look, asshole, voting for gun control and wanting to repeal the second amendment are two different things. One can easilly point to the hard regulations of fully automatic weapons, high explosives, suppressors, etc, but another can retort saying that you can still buy rifles, shotguns, handguns, etc. As long as you can easilly buy and own a plethora of firearms, you have a second amendment right, regardless of gun control measures.

Secondly, Guantanimo and other CIA prisons simply existing does not mean that "cruel and unusual" punishments are taking place. Furthermore, the people housed are not even United States citizens, therefore have no Constitutional rights. Interrogation is something that is vitally important to waging assymetric warfare. AW is about power through intelligence, not weapons.

McCain also voted for reauthorizing the Patriot Act, as did many other Congressmen. Obama has this (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/25/obama_defends_his_fisa_positio.html) to say for his FISA vote. Basically, he voted for the additional regulations in the bill on what the White House could do. FISA itself has been around for decades, so it has established precedence.

As for the constitutionality of income taxation, let me show you the sixteenth amendment (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am16). Considering that the Constitution specifically says that Congress can collect income taxes, income taxation cannot be unconstitutional by very definition. As for the Fed, your only point is going to be on the printing of paper money. Once gold resources have been claimed and populations and money supplies have exploded, it becomes absolutely necessary to base a currency on something, instead of minting gold.

Consider that, currently, gold is trading for approximately $750 per troy ounce. A single dollar would weigh 41.42 milligrams. Such a tiny amount of gold is very difficult to keep account of. Moreso, such a small mass is insignificant next to the mass of the rest of a coin. Rolling with the technocratic theme, such rare elements should be better used in industry as opposed to stockpiled in coinage. In the end, there are very important reasons to overlook the constitutionality of coinage. The founding fathers most assuredly did not forsee that industry would have a great need of precious metals, epsecially considering the Industrial Revolution had not even taken place yet.

I didn't quite realize it at the time I first posted this, but if we were to indeed make a gold standard tomorrow, industries would be ruined completely because of just how much gold some require: http://www.research.gold.org/supply_demand/ Industrial demand accounted for %13 of all gold demand. The majority was in jewelry. If we did happen to go back to gold standard, we would see a fairly high spike in gold inflation rates since the government is suddenly buying up a very large amount of gold. Electronics requiring gold would either become much more expensive, or much less reliable (and thus more expensive over time).

Because people understand Obama's voting record against the 2nd amendment, dating from his days in the Illinois legislature.

Voting against the second amendment? Well its a fucking good thing he's going to be president so he can't vote on that stuff anymore! :rolleyes:

By the way: http://www.starbulletin.com/news/breaking/33670554.html

well Mccain has already provided the proper documentation to prove hes a citizen. Yes that question was posed and he immediatley provided a birth certificate and other documents that proved he was in fact a legal natural born citizen.

And, no, this is incorrect. He may very well have provided an authentic and completely legitimate birth certificate, but that does not mean he is a natural born citizen like the Constitution demands. To wit, constitutional and government lawyers cannot agree as to whether or not the Panamanian zone was US soil, because it was leased. If it is not US soil, he was not technically born on US soil. So, really, we don't know for fact that McCain is a natural born citizen as described by the Constitution and writings of the founding fathers. Knowing this, it is stupid to call into question Obama's credentials when he was born in an American state just like I was.

The state's Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html?rss=hon&psp=news

State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record

The lawsuits kept getting thrown out because the judges felt that they were stupid. If McCain had been born in hawaii, we wouldn't be allowed to see his birth certificate either, only his family can. State law, asshole. Obamas was released to blogs but didn't hold a fucking press conference about releasing it because it makes no sense. It was never a national issue. He was just appeasing a few idiots. If obama were white nobody would be questioning his origins.

If you feel that he used the trip to his grandma to bribe officials, unless you can provide any sort of evidence to that, occam's razor says that we should just assume he went to see his sick grandma, the simplest explanation for his going to hawaii.

You act as if it's some sort of great life accomplishment to be correct on totse, if only BP could apply his intelligence on here to something productive in real life, his economic woes wouldn't be so. :rolleyes:

It is not that I am so amazingly smart. It is just that you and your ideas are so stupid. A freshmen in high school should be able to hand your simple ass back to you.

Thanks for the compliment though.

But seriously, are you suggesting that b/c I have a grasp on Barrack Obama's origins and the laws that indicate he is a U.S. citizen (thanks to google, try it sometime) that I should be economically better off?

^this is another one of those stupid things you say, that does not take a genius to show you how fucking stupid it is. ;)