I have a 1994 Dodge Grand Caravan (LE?) with, if I remember correctly, a 3.3L, if that makes a difference. The ignition mechanism has fallen apart somehow, and now the van's a brick on wheels. I can engage the electronics and all when I turn the key to "on," but the starter will not engage. In fact, the key turns far beyond the point at which the key is usually stopped by a spring when I start it.

So...I'm trying to get someone to show me how to find the starter in the engine compartment so I can try to hotwire the thing so I can get it down to a locksmith to repair the ignition. I strongly prefer this method to having the thing towed there. I know the theory of how this should work, but I haven't the foggiest idea where to find the starter, and I can't find it elsewhere online.

Whether it's written instructions, pictures, or otherwise, your help is very much appreciated!

Wait, so normally you could turn the key only so far while the engine was cranking, and now you can turn it even farther and it won't stop you? It sounds like it's an issue with the ignition switch.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl563f.htm

Use this wiring diagram to put 12V on the starter relay. It's alot easier than crawling under the car.

Starter should be around alternator lookingish (generic electric motor) and its output should connect to the flywheel, which is in turn, on the side of your engine that attaches to the transmission.

I don't recommend you do this though, since you don't sound like you have a lot of experience with cars.

Thanks nereth - that's what I was trying to get from someone.

Now what is there that could go wrong with this? Is it difficult to differentiate between the positive and negative terminals on the starter? Is there a fan or a belt that might get in the way? What do I need to be careful of?

Wait, so normally you could turn the key only so far while the engine was cranking, and now you can turn it even farther and it won't stop you? It sounds like it's an issue with the ignition switch.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl563f.htm

Use this wiring diagram to put 12V on the starter relay. It's alot easier than crawling under the car.

I just realized how ridiculously easy it is to hotwire older cars. I remember looking at W201 wiring diagrams and thinking the same thing. Minus the bullshit those cars came with.

Okay so I need a little bit more direction. Can you give me a picture of what I'm looking for? I think I've found the starter mechanism, but there are a few cables leading to it. I want to know exactly how to find this thing so I don't waste time taking things apart that I don't need to.

Thanks for all the help so far.

take a screwdriver and stick in-between the bolt studs on the starter solenoid where the bat cable connects....although i agree with everyone else.....dont do this

What do I need to be careful of?

1) breaking the car.

2) breaking yourself.

you cant just put power to the starter and expect the engine to start. Sure it will crank over but thats it. you need power to the fuel pump, the ECU, and the igniton system to get it to run.

All of this can be done by working with the wires attached to the igniton switch. You will need a detailed wiring diagram to do this but with the correct diagram it is rather easy if you have a basic knowledge of electronics.

I once hotwired an old 1988 Ford Taurus that was going to be scrapped without using a diagram just to see if i could do it but in the process i blew many fuses and ended up with a running car with no radio,wipers or dash lights because i fried them applying power to random wires trying to find the correct ones that made the fuel pump run and the ECU power up.

If you plan on fixing the car up and using it after you get it running then don't try to hotwire it without a wiring diagram and dont hack up the wiring too much if you plan on putting a new ignition switch back in it so you dont have to short wires everytime you want to go somewhere.

I might be off the mark, but my mom had a dodge caravan about that old, and there was a kill switch system. I don't know if it was stock or not, but is this a possibility?

you cant just put power to the starter and expect the engine to start. Sure it will crank over but thats it. you need power to the fuel pump, the ECU, and the igniton system to get it to run.

All of this can be done by working with the wires attached to the igniton switch. You will need a detailed wiring diagram to do this but with the correct diagram it is rather easy if you have a basic knowledge of electronics.

Without looking back, I believe I said, in my original post, that when I turn the key it engages everything (electronics included) except the starter mechanism.

You told me what to do to get the electronics engaged. You did not, however, tell me how to find the starter inside the engine compartment.

I want to know two things:

1. How do I find the starter?

2. How do I get electricity to it? Where on the starter do I run a wire to?

You dont need to run wires to the starter. Just get a wiring diagram and find the wires on the igniton switch that cause the starter to engage and crank the motor. then cut these and attach them to a pushbutton switch so you can use the key to turn the car on and the pushbutton to crank it.

without a wiring diagram or somebody who knows exactly which wires to use your going on a wild goose chase.

you could crawl under the car and use jumper cables to put power directly into the starter motor but that would be a fucking huge pain in the ass especially in bad weather.

once you find the starter find the one wire that goes to the battery. this is your power. there should also be a small thin wire going inside the car to the igniton switch. if you connect that thin wire to the big thick wire going up to the battery the solenoid should engage and allow the starter to crank the engine over.

as to its location? i have no clue. look on some dodge forums or try to google it. If you look you should easily find it if you know what your looking for.

you cant just put power to the starter and expect the engine to start. Sure it will crank over but thats it. you need power to the fuel pump, the ECU, and the igniton system to get it to run.

All of this can be done by working with the wires attached to the igniton switch. You will need a detailed wiring diagram to do this but with the correct diagram it is rather easy if you have a basic knowledge of electronics.

I once hotwired an old 1988 Ford Taurus that was going to be scrapped without using a diagram just to see if i could do it but in the process i blew many fuses and ended up with a running car with no radio,wipers or dash lights because i fried them applying power to random wires trying to find the correct ones that made the fuel pump run and the ECU power up.

If you plan on fixing the car up and using it after you get it running then don't try to hotwire it without a wiring diagram and dont hack up the wiring too much if you plan on putting a new ignition switch back in it so you dont have to short wires everytime you want to go somewhere.

Actually you just need the key in the RUN position and the ECM should have already primed the fuel pump. All the START position does is turn off all unnecessary accessories (to maintain high current in the starter circuit) and turn on the starter. All the ECM sees is one second the engine is at 0 RPM and the next the engine is moving at around 300-400 RPM, and then it starts adding fuel and spark.

You dont need to run wires to the starter. Just get a wiring diagram and find the wires on the igniton switch that cause the starter to engage and crank the motor. then cut these and attach them to a pushbutton switch so you can use the key to turn the car on and the pushbutton to crank it.

without a wiring diagram or somebody who knows exactly which wires to use your going on a wild goose chase.

you could crawl under the car and use jumper cables to put power directly into the starter motor but that would be a fucking huge pain in the ass especially in bad weather.

once you find the starter find the one wire that goes to the battery. this is your power. there should also be a small thin wire going inside the car to the igniton switch. if you connect that thin wire to the big thick wire going up to the battery the solenoid should engage and allow the starter to crank the engine over.

as to its location? i have no clue. look on some dodge forums or try to google it. If you look you should easily find it if you know what your looking for.


Okay. This is good information. I would use it if I wanted to forego fixing the ignition. All I want to do, however, is jumpstart the starter from the engine compartment ONCE straight from the battery. I can do this since the electronics turn on when the key turns in the ignition.

Also, since I don't have the right screwdriver (6-pointed star driver head), I can't get into the steering column to mess with the wires in the first place. I could go home to get it, but that would be much more time consuming and costly to me than finding out where the starter is and how to directly jumpstart it from the battery. I'm just a poor college student!

To reiderate: I want to know 1) what the starter looks like, 2) where it is located in the engine compartment, 3) what I need to unscrew/manipulate/whatever in order to run a wire from the correct terminal on the starter to the battery.

Ideally, I would get the car started by turning the key, jumping the starter from the battery, then would drive the car to a locksmith who I have already contacted so the locksmith could fix the ignition mechanism for me.

Thanks again for sticking with me to provide further information.

--FD

The starter will be located where the transmission meets the engine block. It will be a round cylinder 4-6" in diameter with a large heavy wire connected to it. You probably will have to crawl under the car to find it unless you get lucky and can see it from the top. Once you find it youll have to tell us what type and how many connectors are on it. In my above post i described the most basic starter setup there it but yours is probably different and may have more wires. Simply put you have to get the power from that big thick wire into the motor. THis is done with a solenoid switch that is activated by the ignion switch in the car. If you can find the wire that goes from the steering column to the starter motor then you can simply connect this wire to the positive battery terminal and as long as it is connected the starter will run and crank the engine.

If you get lucky you will see several large studs on the back of the starter. One will hold the wire going to the battery and the other will hold a wire going from the solenoid into the motor.(this wire may be inside the case where you cannot see it) If you have a setup like this take some jumper cables and on one end clamp the positive and negitive clamps together. then with the other end of the jumpers attach one clamp to the stud that has the wire going to the battery and touch the other clamp to the other stud. THis will cause the motor to crank. simply remove the cable as soon as the engine starts or you will cause sever damage to the starter motor and possibly your flywheel.

When you find the starter on the van take several pictures of it including a close up shot of the wiring connections and post them here. Once i see them i can tell you exactly what you need to do to get it to crank over.

Take a look at this picure. This is a basic starter assembly and will hopefully point you in the right direction.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2u63cj6.jpg

Here we go:

I had a housemate look with me. We found the starter and the solenoid. We bridged the terminal (bolt that can be seen very clearly in the center of picture one) with the wire that comes in just above it (above, relative to the bolt in the picture). This caused the solenoid to engage but did not start the starter's electronic motor, much less start the car. The key WAS in the on position.

One worry is that while the key turned the electronics on, it was turned beyond the normal "on" position due to the internal ignition housing moving with the key. The mechanical "on" point that allows the starter to engage may be independent, physically/mechanically speaking, than the point at which the electronics turn on.

Below are four pictures that I took of the starter. Hope this'll do. Let me know if you want more pictures from different angles or anything. My guy noted a second terminal above the starter when he was looking at it under the car. The terminal that can be seen here is facing down (toward the ground).

1) We believe that the bolt that can be seen is the positive terminal of the solenoid.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh85/tylertennisman/100_2836.jpg

2) http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh85/tylertennisman/100_2837.jpg

3) http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh85/tylertennisman/100_2838.jpg

4) http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh85/tylertennisman/100_2840.jpg

Thanks for the pics. They help alot!

Try applying 12v+ to the socket on the motor that the thin black wire goes into while the key is off.Use a small piece of wire to jump from the big stud into the socket. If it cranks over then try again with the key on and see if it starts.

Do you have a voltmeter or test light? if so let me know if you have voltage at the big stud. It should be connected directly to the positive battery terminal through a fuse box or fusible link.

Are there any other wires attached to the starter or just those 2? I am lead to believe that the small wire becomes live when the key is turned to "crank" and that is what engages the solenoid and activates the motor. Unfortunately the motors terminal is hidden in the casing so you cant just use jumper cables to power the motor directly. your going to have to find a way to engage the solenoid and make sure that the main power cable to the starter also has power and is not damaged or has a blown fuse.

IF you don't have a meter or test light simply take a piece of wire and strip about 1/2" of insulation off both ends exposing the wire inside. Hold one end against a clean shiny part of metal on the frame and lightly touch the other end to that big stud. It should spark indicating voltage there. DON'T let it weld to the stud or frame, and DON'T hold it on there for more than a second. you don't want to run the battery down or damage any electronics in the car with voltage surges.

If what i said above does not work, ill be working on my wifes 1990 Dakota tomorrow changing the muffler so i'll take a peek at the starter and see if it is similar to yours. If it is i will do my best to crank it without the key and if i succeed i'll post back here telling you how to do it.

If you have an autozone nearby you can take the starter out and bring it to them and they will test it. watch how they power it and repeat it at home. Hell if you take the starter to any decent parts store they should be able to tell you how to bench test it at home. Just test it while its installed and it will crank your engine.

Push start. It's not an automatic is it?

Push start. It's not an automatic is it?

Probably. I dont think i have ever seen a manual transmission equipped minivan.

I think you can still push start an auto, you just need more speed and force.... and as such I SAY TOW START IT! Key to run, gear in N, big ass truck to pull it to i think 35 and you should be ok. it will take less mechanical knowledge.

I think you can still push start an auto, you just need more speed and force.... and as such I SAY TOW START IT! Key to run, gear in N, big ass truck to pull it to i think 35 and you should be ok. it will take less mechanical knowledge.

Some you can, some you can't. I'm not sure what the difference is but only some autos will do it as far as I know.

Chances are nothing will happen if you try to tow start an automatic. You would probably need a way to manually lock the torque converter.

since he has not replied lately im going to assume that he either got it running or that he left it in gear and crawled underneath to use jumper cables on the starter and it fired up and ran him over........

It's funny because my starter is seized on my 93 grand marquis (least to my knowledge) and i was going to post here but this topic already awnsered my questions

btw this may help

http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/small/0900823d8004d10c.gif
well not really this minus the volt meter
B terminal already has power to it
so connect a push button switch to s terminal to b terminal with two insulated aligator clips :) this should engage your starter and crank it or in the case of my tractor just bridge with a screw driver :P




http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/04/d1/0b/0900823d8004d10b/repairInfoPages.htm