i was reading something about how researchers at CERN were hoping to catch a glimpse of the higgs boson. the article said that the discovery of this particle could explain how the universe came to be.

obviously this things been theorized and so it seems that, if they found it, they know how it fits in.

so, hypothetically of course, if found, why and how would this "god particle" explain how something came from nothing.

It doesn't really.

If it doesn't exist though, a whole branch of physics goes, oh shit fuckity fuck fuck, and our understanding of the univers is gonna have to be altered, and we get much faway from a theory of everything than we are now.

Yeah. I'm not sure if there is a conventional theory for how the universe came to be... but there are plenty that address how it is.

I don't know why they would call it The God Particle, but I guess our entire particle physics model hinges on its existence. It would be the first defeat for The Standard Model I think, and it's been the most accurate scientific model ever.

so, hypothetically of course, if found, why and how would this "god particle" explain how something came from nothing.

If I'm not mistaken, it should tell us how things gained mass in the early universe. So it would be the piece of the puzzle that tells us how we have mass, why things are the way they are, and we would be much closer to a theory of everything, aka God. I don't really understand why it higgs boson would tell us though.

I attended a lecture by Stephen Weinberg (one of the engineers of the Standard Model) about a month ago, and interestingly enough, he claimed that he hopes the LHC does NOT produce a Higg's Boson. He bemoaned how nothing new has occurred in the theoretical physics in 30 years, and that if the current theory were proven wrong it would send scientists back to the drawing board and hopefully produce a new, more fertile theory. If the Higg's Boson turns up as predicted, all physics can do is say "well what the fuck do we do now?" and continue tweaking string theory hoping something happens.

Wait, wait... I am ignorant about this. How will discovering this particle ruin the Standard Model and all of physics or whatever? Could someone please explain?

If the LHC discoveres the Higgs boson, it would pretty much validate the Standard Theory. It would still be a theory but sorta like how evolution is still a theory.

I attended a lecture by Stephen Weinberg (one of the engineers of the Standard Model) about a month ago, and interestingly enough, he claimed that he hopes the LHC does NOT produce a Higg's Boson. He bemoaned how nothing new has occurred in the theoretical physics in 30 years, and that if the current theory were proven wrong it would send scientists back to the drawing board and hopefully produce a new, more fertile theory. If the Higg's Boson turns up as predicted, all physics can do is say "well what the fuck do we do now?" and continue tweaking string theory hoping something happens.

i kind of agree with this dude. a lot of times when i think about these theories i think about older theories too. like when people thought the earth was the center of existence, it makes me feel like what we think we know could be completely wrong and that many people are wasting their lives, but also that if you begin to theorize of alternate views on existence, you could waste your life just the same.

i feel that one day we will be looked upon as "cave men" and that our theories will be laughable.

also, while watching "the elegant universe" (i think it was on their) someone said on it that trying to understand the universe may be like trying to teach a dog trigonometry, no matter how many times you try to make him understand, he just wont get it because his brain isnt wired to understand it.

so maybe we wont ever get it. but that also makes me think that we could genetically engineer a much smarter person. or robot... or something.

and if you havnt seen the elegant universe:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

its worth the watch.



its no

Wait, wait... I am ignorant about this. How will discovering this particle ruin the Standard Model and all of physics or whatever? Could someone please explain?

No, it's the other way around. The Standard Model hinges on the Higgs Boson's existence, in essence. It's an asssumed subatomic particle that gives the others their mass, but now we have the instrumentation to detect such a thing. If it isn't detected at the LHC it's bad news for the model.

...it makes me feel like what we think we know could be completely wrong and that many people are wasting their lives...

...he just wont get it because his brain isnt wired to understand it...

...so maybe we wont ever get it. but that also makes me think that we could genetically engineer a much smarter person. or robot... or something....

I don't think it's a waste of our lives; it's the only rational way to spend them. Otherwise we're wandering aimlessly, care-free as to man's place in the universe. That we're pondering such things is itself an example. We can be sufficient unto ourselves.

Science is inherently progressive, and a theory proven wrong is a catalyst for that progression. In fact, everything is progressive whether we accept it or not.

And you're right, our technology will eventually merge and exceed our biological capabilities. We're projected -- according to Kurzweil -- to achieve the computational capacity of the human brain by around 2025. A generous estimate of our processing power is 10^16 cps (calculations per second). IBM's Blue Gene/L has achieved 3.6 x 10^14, and personal computers at the time the book was published (2005) average 10^9.

He goes on to predict that by 2045 nonbiological intelligence will be one billion times more powerful than all human intelligence today. All of his projections are based on exponential trends that are fairly substantial.









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The “god particle“ catch phrase sounds like a piece of New York Times Magazine B.S.

It’s interesting that the people who make careers in this field rarely stick their neck out by speculating on the effect the finial outcome of this work will have.
The “god particle” what a load of egotistical crap! To seek enlightenment and insight the first thing a person needs to do is humble themselves.

From earlier particle accelerator experiments the fundamental results have already been obtained. When you see particles disappear and reappear, what you are seeing is a zone between two separate universes. This is the microcosm.

From the macrocosm the effects of this other universe can be seen as dark matter. What keeps galaxies from spinning apart is this “other universe” exerting an effect on our own.

What’s interesting about the new machine is its power and that it’s completely frozen with liquid helium. Thus freezing the particles to take on crystalline properties before they’re smashed together.

also, while watching "the elegant universe" (i think it was on their) someone said on it that trying to understand the universe may be like trying to teach a dog trigonometry, no matter how many times you try to make him understand, he just wont get it because his brain isnt wired to understand it.



Well, I think first you're going to have to teach the dog your language first so it can understand you. That being said, if you live forever (or at least a very long time) and you keep breeding that dog and it's offspring while you keep trying to teach them language and then trigonometry, you'll eventually get there.

So I think if we keep at it, on a long enough time line humanity will eventually understand, when our brains are the size of watermelons and provided we survive for that long.

The “god particle“ catch phrase sounds like a piece of New York Times Magazine B.S.

The name comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Particle:_If_the_Universe_Is_the_Answer,_W hat_Is_the_Question%3F , which mentions the wonderful tidbit of Higgs has stated that Lederman originally wished to label this particle as "the goddamn particle".

Also:

What’s interesting about the new machine is its power and that it’s completely frozen with liquid helium. Thus freezing the particles to take on crystalline properties before they’re smashed together.

You are right that the machine is "frozen" (more like: cooled so everything superconducts), but that does not mean the particles are. At least, I don't think you can consider as frozen particles moving at 99.9999991% of the speed of light.

No, it's the other way around. The Standard Model hinges on the Higgs Boson's existence, in essence. It's an asssumed subatomic particle that gives the others their mass, but now we have the instrumentation to detect such a thing. If it isn't detected at the LHC it's bad news for the model.



I don't think it's a waste of our lives; it's the only rational way to spend them. Otherwise we're wandering aimlessly, care-free as to man's place in the universe. That we're pondering such things is itself an example. We can be sufficient unto ourselves.

Science is inherently progressive, and a theory proven wrong is a catalyst for that progression. In fact, everything is progressive whether we accept it or not.

And you're right, our technology will eventually merge and exceed our biological capabilities. We're projected -- according to Kurzweil -- to achieve the computational capacity of the human brain by around 2025. A generous estimate of our processing power is 10^16 cps (calculations per second). IBM's Blue Gene/L has achieved 3.6 x 10^14, and personal computers at the time the book was published (2005) average 10^9.

He goes on to predict that by 2045 nonbiological intelligence will be one billion times more powerful than all human intelligence today. All of his projections are based on exponential trends that are fairly substantial.









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So who the fuck is going to make the machine that is so much more clever than us? The machine itself? The standard model is THE model, the higgs boson has no effect on it what-so-ever.

If there is no Higgs Boson then scientists are going to have to work out another way for the universes energy level to be "topped up" about 1x10^-10 of a second after the big bang. If the higgs boson is found then the theory is one step closer to being confirmed.

Also a question for OND, if human "processing power" if measured using CPS (calculations per second); why is the world still using the term "IQ" to gauge how clever someone is?

IQ is only how much you know about a certain few select subjets.

CPS is how many calculations per second you brain can do. Dont forget it regulates breating, heart rate, cell growth, etc.

It also has to process all the information we see, such as faces, names, numbers, random stuff you see, and store it as such, at the same time as it's doing all of the above.

It's going to be very had for someone to make a computer that is as small as the human brain, and still have the same power. Dont forget our brain can learn, and to some extent it can repair itself. I dont think theres a computer in existence that can perform once you damage it's cpu(such as a hammer, bullet. People have survived damaged to their brain by these 2 things)