Hey guys, I have a 1990 Chevy Lumina APV mini van I am trying to sell. It is hard to sell a car that's not running, and the most any junkyards offered was $125. I threw an ad up on craigslist and within ten minutes a guy called, be he did not read the part where it said ENGINE NOT RUNNING. Anyways, I'd like to get it fixed and maybe call the guy back!

So, the engine turns over, but will not start. Obvious things I should check are fuel from pump to injectors and if I'm getting spark or not. Anything else?

Also, whats another good way to get some cash for a junk vehicle?

Check for signs of head gasket failure, water in the oil etc.

Get yourself a manual. No van engine is particularly hard nor expensive to get running.

No van engine is particularly hard nor expensive to get running.
By the way, most small van engines are also fitted to large cars (e.g. Ford Transit engine is used in the Focus and LR3). There's nothing special about a van engine...they can still blow head gaskets, throw a rod etc. Those things are most definetely expensive. :eek:

If anything, they can be harder to work on given the cramped space and heavier parts.

OP: You're on the right lines. Check that you're getting fuel through by checking filters and making sure both the pickup pump and pressure pump are running. After that, pull a plug out and look for a spark whilst cranking...but make sure you disconnect the injectors first just in case they do start to work and blow fuel vapour out the plug hole.

A good way to check if the spark plugs are firing is to spray copious amounts of easy-start (ethanol in a can, not sure what it's called in the US, used for starting difficult engines) into the air intake with the trunking removed. Give it a crank and it should cough and fire a few times if there's a spark.

If it still doesn't fire, there could either be no spark or another problem.

If you can confim that sufficient fuel is getting through and there's a healthy spark, you've got other problems...as Galgamech said, this might be a severely blown head gasket, warped head, large vacuum leak...etc.

ethanol in a can, not sure what it's called in the US, used for starting difficult engines

Don't you mean ether?

What engine does it have in it? If it's got the 3.1 or 3.4 I believe it should have a distributor. It would be simple to check for spark by attaching a spark plug to the center wire and grouding the plug to the block. If you don't have spark, check the ignition control module, which is inside the distributor housing. (It was easy to get out on my 2.5, and it shouldn't cost but about $25-35. Get an AC Delco if you can. Cheaper modules are a crapshoot.) Autozone and Advance Auto can check them for free. The ignition modules are a common failure point in GM FWD engines with distributors especially in Fieros.

If you have spark, you need to make sure it's getting fuel. You can check for fuel pressure on the rail (look for a Schrader valve if it has one) or you can splice a tee and Schrader valve into the fuel line. If you have fuel pressure, yu will have to check for injector pulses. I don't know of an easy way to test for them without using an oscilloscope or a NOID light. I doubt that a multimeter will be able to detect the pulses. Some places say that a small incandescent light bulb will work. I would think that if only a single injector was buggered that it wold still be able to fire off a couple cylinders.

If you have spark and you have fuel pressure and injector pulses, the MAP and TPS sensors are probably working well enough. When you get this far, you will have to check compression on each cylinder. You should have around 100 at the least. Anything lower and it is possible that you have a blown head gasket, especially if a single cylinder is much lower than the rest or a bank of cylinders on one side of the engine are much lower than the other side.

Place a screwdriver on each injector, and place the handle up to your ear.

You'll be able to tell if they're clicking (opening).

If they're not clicking, then they're dead or you have some sort of problem with them.

Listen to the gas tank and see if the fuel pump is running when you first turn the key to on. If it's not, bang the area where the fuel pump is with your hand, while the key is being turned. If it starts working from banging, you need a new one.

Just check and make sure you have spark and fuel before doing anything extensive. There's many ways to check it, and don't be afraid of the gasoline. It's really not going to flash/explode and kill you, especially if you're in a well ventilated area.

Thanks for the replies guys!

The engine is carbed. I know almost nothing about carbed engines. I'll tell you what I know.

-The fuel pump primes when key is set to ON.
-I pulled the air filter off, and poured gas in the carb to see if it would start, it did NOT.
-The injectors (are they called injectors on carb engines?) do not spray any fuel. Is this my problem?

But, if the injectors aren't spraying, then wouldn't pouring some gas in the carb start it up?

What is the difference between pickup pump and pressure pump?

Thanks for the replies guys!

The engine is carbed. I know almost nothing about carbed engines. I'll tell you what I know.

-The fuel pump primes when key is set to ON.
-I pulled the air filter off, and poured gas in the carb to see if it would start, it did NOT.
-The injectors (are they called injectors on carb engines?) do not spray any fuel. Is this my problem?

But, if the injectors aren't spraying, then wouldn't pouring some gas in the carb start it up?

What is the difference between pickup pump and pressure pump?

Errm, the 3.1s was based off the 2.8, which had a carb at one point in time (and later evolved into MPFI in the mid 80's), but the 3.4 and Buick 3800 were never designed for a carburetor, and fitting one would be exceptionally difficult on a 3.4 as you would need the intake manifold and plenum from a 2.8. To get one on a 3800 you would have alot of work.

Do you have a picture of this dubious carburetor setup? Seriously, if someone slapped a carb on there it's not going to be quite so simple to figure out what's gone wrong.

By the way, most small van engines are also fitted to large cars (e.g. Ford Transit engine is used in the Focus and LR3). There's nothing special about a van engine...they can still blow head gaskets, throw a rod etc. Those things are most definetely expensive. :eek:

Yeah, no shit a van engine is just an engine. I was just using it as a descriptor. You know that a basic fucking engine in a van is easy as piss to get running, and come on man, if he mentioned throwing a rod then yeah, my advice would have been different, but given the lack of specifics I did the best I could.

Pic1
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/antifrootbooter/Van/Pic1.jpg
Pic 2
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/antifrootbooter/Van/Pic2.jpg
Pic 3
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/antifrootbooter/Van/Pic3.jpg
Pic 4
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/antifrootbooter/Van/Pic4-1.jpg
Pic 5
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/antifrootbooter/Van/Pic5-1.jpg


Checked the code, it was code 34. MAP sensor. In picture 4 it has a green clip going to it. So now I'm lost. I checked for spark at the plugs, and it seems like i'm getting no spark either. I also checked to see if I'm getting fuel from the jets, and I'm not.

How can I not be getting FUEL, AIR, and SPARK?!

http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes

Code 34 means the MAP is probably dead. I know for fact that my Fiero using the same sensor ran even if the MAP was unplugged or if the vacuum line was cracked. The MAP is the sensor attached to the air horn with the green plug in pic 4.

Follow these instructions to test the sensor:
http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/17/8f/18/0900823d80178f18/repairInfoPages.htm

Also, for shits and giggles, check the middle wire to the throttle position sensor. Also check the resistance of the coolant temperatur sensor when the engine is cold, or a MAT if it's got one.

Here is a chart for the correct resistances for each temperature:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/077235.html#p19

Thanks a lot for your help Argon! So a faulty MAP sensor would cause the engine to turn over, but not start?

Shouldn't I be able to see gas flowing from the jets still?

I'll be hitting up junkyards tomorrow morning and picking up some MAP sensors and hopefully one of them will work!

If the ECM sees a voltage from the MAP sensor that is out of it's programming range (like a really high voltage or a negative voltage) the reading will be off its fuel table and it won't know what the fuel demand is supposed to be, so it won't fire at all.

If the ECM sees a voltage from the MAP sensor that is out of it's programming range (like a really high voltage or a negative voltage) the reading will be off its fuel table and it won't know what the fuel demand is supposed to be, so it won't fire at all.

That is what I thought! So is that why I don't see the jets spraying gas?

Thanks for your help again. I should have the van running by later today and will keep you updated!

Just a quick question, is there anything else that could contribute to the MAP sensor going bad, or will cause it to misread?

If the ECM sees a voltage from the MAP sensor that is out of it's programming range (like a really high voltage or a negative voltage) the reading will be off its fuel table and it won't know what the fuel demand is supposed to be, so it won't fire at all.

Fuck computerized modern cars. I wanna fix it with a spanner

That is what I thought! So is that why I don't see the jets spraying gas?

Thanks for your help again. I should have the van running by later today and will keep you updated!

Just a quick question, is there anything else that could contribute to the MAP sensor going bad, or will cause it to misread?

Not really. They just sometimes go bad. I gotta give them credit, though, since they are very well made and sensor failures are almost unheard of.

Ok, the MAP sensor is the only code my ECU is showing. And the code was being shown when the engine still ran!

I have no spark, and no fuel. What would cause this?

Yeah, no shit a van engine is just an engine. I was just using it as a descriptor. You know that a basic fucking engine in a van is easy as piss to get running, and come on man, if he mentioned throwing a rod then yeah, my advice would have been different, but given the lack of specifics I did the best I could.

What the fuck are you on about? Saying a van engine is easy to get running is like saying it's easy to cut down a tree in a day. Also, how is it easier to get an engine in a van running than in a car that has the exact same one? GM 3.4's or 3800's aren't exactly easy to diagnose when it just cranks and nothing happens.

What the fuck are you on about? Saying a van engine is easy to get running is like saying it's easy to cut down a tree in a day. Also, how is it easier to get an engine in a van running than in a car that has the exact same one? GM 3.4's or 3800's aren't exactly easy to diagnose when it just cranks and nothing happens.
Thank you skids.

An engine is an engine - whether it's in a van or not doesn't make it simpler nor easier to diagnose.

Less arguing, more helping!

Less arguing, more helping!
Are the fuel pumps running? And using the screwdriver + ear method someone mentioned earlier, are the injectors firing?

Thanks for the help Argon and everyone else. I got the van running now. The ignition module inside the distributor needed replacement.

http://cpwstore.carpartswholesale.com/catalog/images/prodimage/images/ac_delco/D1962A.jpg

Thanks for the help Argon and everyone else. I got the van running now. The ignition module inside the distributor needed replacement.

http://cpwstore.carpartswholesale.com/catalog/images/prodimage/images/ac_delco/D1962A.jpg

How much was the part and whats it worth now?

How much was the part and whats it worth now?

Around 55 bottlecaps depending on Moiras disposition.

$26.99 for the ignition module. Selling van now for $500.

I live in a van down by the river!

Around 55 bottlecaps depending on Moiras disposition.

I understood that becuse I've spent 3/5 of the last three days playing fallout.

THREE FIFTHS!

DEATH IS PREFERABLE TO COMMUNISM!

I understood that becuse I've spent 3/5 of the last three days playing fallout.

THREE FIFTHS!

DEATH IS PREFERABLE TO COMMUNISM!

When you're done with that, get Red Alert 3. Commies you say? Not just. Japs too now.

When you're done with that, get Red Alert 3. Commies you say? Not just. Japs too now.

I'm currently obsessed with watching things in 720p or 1080p.

But back to fallout, dropping a live grenade into somebodies pocket made me pee a little.

I'm currently obsessed with watching things in 720p or 1080p.

But back to fallout, dropping a live grenade into somebodies pocket made me pee a little.

Is it that good? I saw it in a store today and woulda bought it, but I got morrowind and hated it a few years back.

Is it that good? I saw it in a store today and woulda bought it, but I got morrowind and hated it a few years back.

5.5gb torrent, works off the bat.

5.5gb torrent, works off the bat.

Would you torrent a car, too?

Fucking pirate.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Would you torrent a car, too?

Fucking pirate.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Silly rabbit, you can't torrent physical items.

Silly rabbit, you can't torrent physical items.

Yes you can. One bolt at a time.

Yes you can. One bolt at a time.

Sure thing, Klinger.

Silly rabbit, you can't torrent physical items.

*clears throat*

http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyersGuide2008/photos/2008/Pontiac/Torrent/SUV/2008_Pontiac_Torrent_ext_1.jpg