I've recently come to the realization that I am no longer part of the herd. I stand apart from the masses now, and only have three paths for life. I can be a shepherd, a wolf, or be nothing. Standing out of the herd I've realized something though, and that is that morality is of zero use to me anymore. The only thing that matters for someone like me now, is getting what I want, and morality is pointless for me. Sure, I have to be aware of the morality of the masses, and not put myself in a situation where I may become punished by them for my lack of morality, but this is simply acting out of self-preservation, not morality. There is nothing that is inherently good, bad, or evil for me. I have no pity for what I might inflict on the herd, as the herd has no value to me except in fulfilling my wants. Really, being apart from the herd already means I will never be accepted by the herd unless I deceive everyone into thinking I am.

For me to be part of the herd again, I must already go against morality, and mask my true self, essentially lying about my character and thoughts. Not only is morality useless to me, but I'm bound to act against it now to live life amongst the masses which I cannot escape. I'll live a life pretending to care about people, hockey, the environment, etc, but not let any of these things stand in my way to finding success and inflicting my Will upon the herd. I'm sure I will wear many masks in my life to get where I need to be. Deception of my true self will be the only way for me to live. I can never display my true self, even now this is a mask of my true self. A lie, to cover up who I really am.

I think there will be times when the truth of me comes to surface, when it is useful to be what I really am. In the end, I've given up my morals, as they no longer serve me in life, and only inflict suffering upon my soul without cause. The herd needs morals, a solidified ideal they all supposedly live by, but for me, a man on the outskirts, morality has lost all meaning and purpose.

So here I am today, a man without morals, but a man, not a sheep for the purpose of man, and preyed upon by wolves.

Does anyone else feel morals are simply a construct of the herd, but a free man, on the outside of the herd looking in, doesn't need such a system of morality?

welcome to the wonderful world of reality, dont assume everyone that acts like a "sheep" truly is.

You're a "sheep", a product of your society, an extreme, narcissistic, cut-throat manifestation of the free-market ideology and ethical-egoism inherent in Anglo-Saxon society. That or you are just really lonely and your loneliness has turned into misanthropy; or then again, maybe you are just some kid who has just finished reading Max Stirner. But whatever, personally I care about other people and see sympathy as an empathetic feeling of pain that is a statement that expresses disagreement with the state of things, not a sickness to be shed because people "aren't worth it" or have treated you badly.

i do think think that when faced with the prospect of death, the majority of the "sheep" would be just as amoral as you are.

I've recently come to the realization that I am no longer part of the herd. I stand apart from the masses now, and only have three paths for life. I can be a shepherd, a wolf, or be nothing. Standing out of the herd I've realized something though, and that is that morality is of zero use to me anymore. The only thing that matters for someone like me now, is getting what I want, and morality is pointless for me. Sure, I have to be aware of the morality of the masses, and not put myself in a situation where I may become punished by them for my lack of morality, but this is simply acting out of self-preservation, not morality. There is nothing that is inherently good, bad, or evil for me. I have no pity for what I might inflict on the herd, as the herd has no value to me except in fulfilling my wants. Really, being apart from the herd already means I will never be accepted by the herd unless I deceive everyone into thinking I am.

For me to be part of the herd again, I must already go against morality, and mask my true self, essentially lying about my character and thoughts. Not only is morality useless to me, but I'm bound to act against it now to live life amongst the masses which I cannot escape. I'll live a life pretending to care about people, hockey, the environment, etc, but not let any of these things stand in my way to finding success and inflicting my Will upon the herd. I'm sure I will wear many masks in my life to get where I need to be. Deception of my true self will be the only way for me to live. I can never display my true self, even now this is a mask of my true self. A lie, to cover up who I really am.

I think there will be times when the truth of me comes to surface, when it is useful to be what I really am. In the end, I've given up my morals, as they no longer serve me in life, and only inflict suffering upon my soul without cause. The herd needs morals, a solidified ideal they all supposedly live by, but for me, a man on the outskirts, morality has lost all meaning and purpose.

So here I am today, a man without morals, but a man, not a sheep for the purpose of man, and preyed upon by wolves.

Does anyone else feel morals are simply a construct of the herd, but a free man, on the outside of the herd looking in, doesn't need such a system of morality?

http://www.eze-riviera.com/village/ang/images/nietzsche_portrait.jpg

i do think think that when faced with the prospect of death, the majority of the "sheep" would be just as amoral as you are.

http://catholicdiscussion.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/large_batman-the-joker-d3xjfbwm.jpg

I have no pity for what I might inflict on the herd, as the herd has no value to me except in fulfilling my wants.this just screams hypocrisy.

The idiotic nature of this thread made me shed a tear. Everyone is a product of society, you idiots. One cannot be anything else other than that. OP's case is obviously one of rejection and self-consciousness. There is no new under the sun, this does not make one an outsider, people have been saying this shit for decades. The OP is the biggest sheep of them all; for he feels the need to conceal himself from the sheep. He is not good enough for them. If he truly wanted to go against the grain, he would tell this to his parents and his classmates, not about how he plans to conceal it on totse; for only then would he be a true outsider. Perhaps you never caught the paradoxical nature of acting like a moral person; but somehow abandoning morality? Please die in a horrible car accident.

As Hare already expressed, you're just taking up Egoism, you haven't escaped ethical systems, just chosen a different one. Plenty of people already adhere to this, they just act to care about others to seem affable to others. What else would greed and capitalism be built on, trying to help others? I guess you'd be radical if you lived in a very nationalist/communist country.

Oh well, I guarantee you almost every person thinks they are "enlightened" or not part of the herd, the same way every mother thinks her child is smarter than average.

I've realized morality is not only useless its a hinderence. The only moral I have is to not cause harm to other people if possible.

A valuable lesson I learned though by leaving the herd is it gives you freedom but its also dangerous. By not believing things simply because other people do and making your own belief system there comes the possibility of going schizo. One night on at the end of a big long meth binge I was real sleep deprived and since I don't blindly accept all mainsteam outlooks on life simply because they're widely accepted and consider that lots of things may be possible my mind started wandering into all sorts of crazy shit.

At first I was hearing voices and instead of explaining it conventionally i.e. hallucinations I was pondering other explanations like telepathy, aliens, demons, hi tech government equipment and then I got a big fright wondering what I'd got myself into and it turned into a nightmare that I couldn't wake up from. Thats exactly what I was thinking. I was thinking maybe this is just a nightmare but I knew it wasn't and I was awake. I went out for a walk at about 3 in the morning to a fast food place cuz I hadn't eaten in a long time and knew I had to eat something and I was sitting in there eating a slice of pizza then I heard a song on the radio saying "Its a crazy world stick with the herd and you'll be just fine".

It was like a revelation for me. I was thinking that maybe your beliefs create reality and hallucinations are actually real only they reside on a different frequency which is why other people can't percieve them and that by venturing outside the box which is mainstream belief your exposed to whatever wonders and horrors lie outside the box. Of course I was thinking fuck that song I'm just gonna learn to deal with whatever lies beyond this box of conventional thought and be free.

Needless to say these voices disappeared once I caught some sleep and I realized I most likely just misheard what that song said since I even do that sober. It was a cool thought at the time though. That was an intense experience I have to say. Terrifying yet enlightening.

To be honest though I think there may be some truth to that theory I had while I was tweaked outta my mind. Every night we go to sleep and create worlds based on what we believe and think. Maybe this is what we're doing in real life every day and the only reason we all percieve the same thing is because we've all accepted certain frequency ranges and remain focused on them. Theres alot that can't be explained with this theory like how come hallucinations cannot make permanent changes to physical matter but its fun to think about.

You're a "sheep", a product of your society, an extreme, narcissistic, cut-throat manifestation of the free-market ideology and ethical-egoism inherent in Anglo-Saxon society. That or you are just really lonely and your loneliness has turned into misanthropy; or then again, maybe you are just some kid who has just finished reading Max Stirner. But whatever, personally I care about other people and see sympathy as an empathetic feeling of pain that is a statement that expresses disagreement with the state of things, not a sickness to be shed because people "aren't worth it" or have treated you badly.

Correction, I'm a Master, a product of society none the less. I'm hardly extreme, not really cut-throat either, and my narcissism is more than reasonable, and not overboard. Actually, if you met me in person, you'd probably consider me a moral and upright citizen, but very strong willed. In fact, people benefit from me lacking a moral system, and seem to really like me a lot more now than ever before. I act in the ideals of reason and function, and right and wrong have no place in it. Being a murderer, rapist, pedophile, and the such wouldn't be exactly reasonable in society, and wouldn't serve much function. I don't see these things as wrong, but not reasonable for a modern man to take part in such things. I'm also not lonely either, lol. I actually have lots of friends and family, and am never alone unless I choose to be.

I disagree with you in believing empathy and sympathy go hand in hand, but I used to think that way. I don't feel pity for people in less than ideal situations, whether they are homeless, disabled, or have been the victim of some event in their lives. Why should I feel bad that I didn't get dealt those cards? I do however empathize with these people's situations. I'm too knowledgeable about the amount of suffering and hardship that there is on this planet to feel negative emotions about it. Just because they suffer, must I too suffer? I'd be plagued with depression if I lived like that, knowing the things I know. This self-inflicted suffering would only hinder me, and the possibility that I could make life better for others. Depression would keep me from building a corporation for example. If I built this corporation, I'd create hundreds, possibly thousands of jobs, giving people purpose, and helping them feed their families and provide them a good life. I may be doing this out of selfish greed to have an even better life myself, but I'm also a reasonable man, and I know I can only take so much or I'll collapse the system that gave me this life. This reason will regulate my Will, but it's hardly a moral imperative.

See, I basically believe in self-regulation of my Will. Benefiting the world around me benefits me too, but I also want other benefits. Living a life of pity, and blocking my Will with morals and ethics is actually bad for society; but for men who cannot self-regulate, they need those same morals to block them from destroying society. It's a double-edged sword, and a double standard, and one has to know which side of the sword they are on. Everyone therefore must ask themselves. Am I a self-regulating master, or an ethically and morally regulated slave? It's not a choice to make though, the choice was made for me. You only must recognize which person you are.

People like myself are where morals stem from actually. That's why morals have changed throughout history, because somebody ventured outside that moral playground, and lived as a self-regulated man. From those people's actions, morals where forged by their Will. As long as I act in the interest of myself as a human, an animal slightly above the normal variety of animals, but an animal none the less; I always act in the interest of the herd that is subject to my Will. If you think I'm an egotistical asshole for thinking this way, think what you like. Anyone can take this route, and many have over the thousands of years of human existence. Nothing makes me special really to do this. I may have lucked out with brains and looks, but I didn't choose those things, and I don't feel bad at all for having those qualities. I could have easily have been just another man part of the heard, but I'm not, and that's all that matters. Really, I think I owe all the things I had to overcome for my strong will. Diversity set me apart, but It's up to me to rise to the occasion. Really, if I fail the heard and lead them to bad things, bad things will come to me too. Obviously I'm a shepherd though. A wolf destroys the society he lives in for personal gain, and everyone ends up losing, including him. Wolves are short sighted though. They only look for the their next meal, even if their prey is going extinct because of them. A drug dealer is a good example of a wolf. How many crack dealers want to live in an area where they sell their crack? None.

I've realized morality is not only useless its a hinderence. The only moral I have is to not cause harm to other people if possible.

A valuable lesson I learned though by leaving the herd is it gives you freedom but its also dangerous. By not believing things simply because other people do and making your own belief system there comes the possibility of going schizo. One night on at the end of a big long meth binge I was real sleep deprived and since I don't blindly accept all mainsteam outlooks on life simply because they're widely accepted and consider that lots of things may be possible my mind started wandering into all sorts of crazy shit.

At first I was hearing voices and instead of explaining it conventionally i.e. hallucinations I was pondering other explanations like telepathy, aliens, demons, hi tech government equipment and then I got a big fright wondering what I'd got myself into and it turned into a nightmare that I couldn't wake up from. Thats exactly what I was thinking. I was thinking maybe this is just a nightmare but I knew it wasn't and I was awake. I went out for a walk at about 3 in the morning to a fast food place cuz I hadn't eaten in a long time and knew I had to eat something and I was sitting in there eating a slice of pizza then I heard a song on the radio saying "Its a crazy world stick with the herd and you'll be just fine".

It was like a revelation for me. I was thinking that maybe your beliefs create reality and hallucinations are actually real only they reside on a different frequency which is why other people can't percieve them and that by venturing outside the box which is mainstream belief your exposed to whatever wonders and horrors lie outside the box. Of course I was thinking fuck that song I'm just gonna learn to deal with whatever lies beyond this box of conventional thought and be free.

Needless to say these voices disappeared once I caught some sleep and I realized I most likely just misheard what that song said since I even do that sober. It was a cool thought at the time though. That was an intense experience I have to say. Terrifying yet enlightening.

To be honest though I think there may be some truth to that theory I had while I was tweaked outta my mind. Every night we go to sleep and create worlds based on what we believe and think. Maybe this is what we're doing in real life every day and the only reason we all percieve the same thing is because we've all accepted certain frequency ranges and remain focused on them. Theres alot that can't be explained with this theory like how come hallucinations cannot make permanent changes to physical matter but its fun to think about.

Trippy story man. I've had some pretty intense rides on mushrooms and acid that shook me pretty good. Probably the reason why I separated from the pack so much. I liken leaving the herd to venturing into an unknown wilderness. It's dark, alien, and full of dangers that you haven't even imagined yet, and nobody can inform you of them clearly. I very much agree with Nietzsche when he said," When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares into you." A man can lose his mind in this forest, get lost forever, and likely take his own life. That's the thing about the tree of knowledge. Once you take a bite of that first apple, you have to keep eating until you are full. For me, I ate apples for 12 years before I finally got full, and I walked out of that forest a free man. This was recent. It was fucking scary, I was in hell without a doubt, felt and lived suffering, almost went mad, saw things in myself I almost could not bare to see. I actually laugh at horror movies now, I have no fear of death, and I'm wise beyond my years because of that journey. I know the scariest things that can exist, and even death can't compare. Now I continue my journey, past that forest, but I'll never forget that place.

To this day, whenever I meet a man of great knowledge and wisdom I have the up most respect for them, because I know how they got it.

I will say this though; be careful of how you let your mind wander, cause it might wander into a place you never ever wanted to be.

http://catholicdiscussion.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/large_batman-the-joker-d3xjfbwm.jpg

damn straight

Correction, I'm a Master,
that is where i stopped reading and pressed the qote button.
Those 3 words owned hare's op.

/motherfucking thread

Yep I gained the exact same views of being a free thinker after this experience I had. I'm not exaggerating that one night was crazier than a year of my normal everyday life. All my mushroom, acid and salvia trips can't compare to this. Psychedelics kinda guide you through the experience even the rough ones but going psychotic from sleep deprivation and dopamine overflow your on your own.

ITT we over think the nature of human behavior and indulge in delusions of grandeur.

From what I've gathered you haven't given up morality at all, but merely become a kind of moral relatiavist.

Just because you can recognise that nothing is inherently good or bad doesn't mean you are without morals, but that you no longer believe in absolute morality. And , lets face it, become a moral relativist hardly seperates you from the herd. Funnily, you even tell us what your new moral system is based on what is reasonable, your example that becoming a paedophile or a murderer is undesirable because it is not reasonable. How can you claim to lack morality when you use your own system of morality to confirm the moral correctness of the 'Herds' morality?


It's also interesting that while you claim to have become a free-man, you seem to be now a slave to the herd. Everything you have written seems to be in relation to the herd, and how you will control the herd, and decieve the herd, the most amusing thing is, as someone pointed out above, as free as you are from the herd you've still found it neccesary to inform the herd that you are no longer part of the herd anonymously. How can you be free, when you've indicated that the only thing of value is how one relates to the herd, you list 3 possibilities Shepherd, Wolf or nothing, when I can see a shit load of possibiliteies that do not require people at all.

To speak frankly, your 'freedom' from morality is not all that evident. You say that you can now laugh at horror movies. You have described me and ALL of my friends, in fact, several of my friends are quite happy to joke about everything.

Having a differant morality doesn't make you special

Also, I'm curious, you tell us you are a master... What is a master exactly?

^^^ There is no "herd" every fucking person thinks they are enlightened and apart from the masses. Eesh. Being elite is so damn cool these days.

From what I've gathered you haven't given up morality at all, but merely become a kind of moral relatiavist.

Just because you can recognise that nothing is inherently good or bad doesn't mean you are without morals, but that you no longer believe in absolute morality. And , lets face it, become a moral relativist hardly seperates you from the herd. Funnily, you even tell us what your new moral system is based on what is reasonable, your example that becoming a paedophile or a murderer is undesirable because it is not reasonable. How can you claim to lack morality when you use your own system of morality to confirm the moral correctness of the 'Herds' morality?


It's also interesting that while you claim to have become a free-man, you seem to be now a slave to the herd. Everything you have written seems to be in relation to the herd, and how you will control the herd, and decieve the herd, the most amusing thing is, as someone pointed out above, as free as you are from the herd you've still found it neccesary to inform the herd that you are no longer part of the herd anonymously. How can you be free, when you've indicated that the only thing of value is how one relates to the herd, you list 3 possibilities Shepherd, Wolf or nothing, when I can see a shit load of possibiliteies that do not require people at all.

To speak frankly, your 'freedom' from morality is not all that evident. You say that you can now laugh at horror movies. You have described me and ALL of my friends, in fact, several of my friends are quite happy to joke about everything.

Having a differant morality doesn't make you special

Also, I'm curious, you tell us you are a master... What is a master exactly?

It's not morality, read my post more carefully. Morality is a guide to behavior that involves, at least in part, avoiding and preventing harm to some others. My code of conduct is protecting myself, sometimes from others, harm to others may be prevented, but the code of conduct was not created with that in mind, it's essentially a by product of my own self preservation. It doesn't always work this way either, sometimes others would definitely be harmed.

Here's an example. I'm a shepherd, and I have 100 sheep. My business relies on me selling wool. There is a bad drought, and I see there is only enough water and grass to keep 50 sheep. If I keep them all, they'll all die. So I select the strongest 50, and I kill the rest. I made this decision to save my business by keeping what I could, and I did it out of selfish reasons. Sure you could say I made a morally just decision to save 50 sheep by slaughtering half of them, but my conduct was not driven reducing harm to those sheep, but keeping my business going. This is not relative morality, this is self-preservation.

As a result, society might establish the idea that it's moral to kill the few to save the many, but my actions weren't moral, reducing harm to the ones that survived was the bi-product of my self preservation. I acted without any code of morality.

As for why I'm informing the herd. The herd is dangerous to me, and I'm trying to dissolve it as much as possible, to divide it up, and force out those who don't belong in it. The heard has gotten too big, there's not enough shepherds, and too many wolves. This creates a dangerous world, and I live in it. Remember, self preservation is my creed. I'm worried about what the world will become if more shepherds don't get in control of shit.

If you want to know what a wolf is. Bankers are wolves. Bankers capitalized on the housing market and created money through hedge funds. They made billions of dollars, but they were short cited, or disregarded the fact the system would eventually top out like a pyramid scheme. They made off with billions, and now we get screwed by the destruction they left in their wake. Damn wolves. Shepherds on the other hand would have created a stable system, not let the market grow too fast, and kept the whole thing sustainable. Shepherds are rare these days, and the herd is now lead through fear by these wolves, and only shepherds can stop these people. That's why I want more shepherds to stand up, remove themselves from the herd, and take a guiding role. A shepherd cannot follow the morality of the herd, he must be above morality, and let his actions become morality for the herd. The shepherd will gain many things, and are his driving force. He'll gain power and wealth, and do this for his own well being, but keeps in mind that he must be sustainable to keep his treasures. Sustaining the herd is a by-product of the shepherds wise choice for sustainable power and wealth, and he doesn't need to act for the herd in any way, as long as he acts for himself in this way. Morality is pointless for both shepherds and wolves.

A master is simple, he is the opposite of the slave. In the herd, the slave follows along with the consensus of the herd. Usually the slave is oblivious to the system in which they live, or simply can't do anything about it even if they are aware. This why they're not free. A master is the complete opposite. A master understands the herd, and the systems that can be used to guide the herd, and how to use his will to manipulate these systems. A master has the power to control the herd through his Will, and make the herd's will his own. A masters actions usually become the herds morality.

Jesus and Hitler where both powerful masters. These men had an amazing ability to manipulate the herd, but greater than Jesus himself, was Constantine, the roman emperor who made Christianity law. I used Jesus and Hitler as examples because they're both shepherds, however, because our shepherds decided to go with Jesus' teachings, and dispel Hitler's, Jesus was labelled good, and Hitler is Evil. Remember, morality is determined by your master. The masters of the west fought Hitler, so their actions became the moral ones, where as Hitler was immoral. Hitler rounded up Gypsies and Jews because he saw them as weakening his ideal Germany. He did this for his own selfish reasons and hatred. It became moral in Germany to round them up and exterminate them, because he was the master, and morality is set to the masters actions. The herd followed. Was Hitler right about it weakening a one culture Germany? He was. He acted outside of morality to create the holocaust, but it became moral in Germany as a result. When we won the war, our masters became Germany's masters, and then the holocaust became immoral in Germany. Funny how that works eh? Were the Nazi's Evil, or are they no different than ourselves? You should also note that Jesus Christ's actions, became the morals of Christianity, but think about this quote from Jesus himself once again.

"The law was made for servants (herd)- love God as I love him, as his son! What have we sons(masters) of God to do with morality!"

Servants are the herd, Sons are the masters, and God is the greatest master of all-time.

In the West, Christianity is also labeled as Good, and the morals it teaches have become the basis for most western law and culture. Is Christianity right? It doesn't matter, but because the religious leaders are Masters, whatever they do becomes morality for all those under the system. Just like whatever is on TV these days seems to become the morality of our culture. If a pastor in a church accepts homosexual behavior in his congregation, the congregation will often follow suite. The pastor is then functioning outside of Morality, especially the morality created by the Bible, but it sticks because he is the master of his congregation, and his actions and words become morality for the lot.

So yes, because I know how to sway things, take control, and make my actions morality while completely functioning outside of any moral influence myself, I am a Master.

In the Freemasons, they apparently learn the same things, and the final stage is giving up morality, and rising above it. The head of the lodge is called the Grand Master. I wonder why?

I'll get you a spoon and you can eat my ass if you don't think things work this way.

Hare Geist is absolutely right. It is harder to love than to hate, construct than destroy, tell the truth than lie. A true "Master" realizes that he is a part of everyone and everyone is a part of himself.

Your ideas strike me as a form of social Darwinism combined with narcissism.

You may believe yourself to be a "Master", but there is always someone more powerful than you pulling your strings. And along your line of thinking; have fun getting robbed and shot by another "Master" who feels the same way you do. Or have fun seeing how your system of morality compares to the identified system of society we have when you wind up in jail. The only thing you will be than is a three-hole pleasure factory.

lolz epic fail. You claim to be amoral. You call yourself a master/shepherd, you then said they are either moral or imoral influencing the herd for good or bad. So from your own words you have just admitted to being part of this moral system that you deny being a part of.

Also "the heard" and "short cited" masterful typing. Seriously though how many times have you writeen "herd" and you can still get it wrong. A isn't even close enough to E to accidentally press it with one finger. Unless maybe you are obese.

Your an idiot. Other people have already explained how you are still following a moral system called egoism anyway. Just because your morals are ever so different from our lowly slave ones does not mean you are amoral.

Hare Geist is absolutely right. It is harder to love than to hate, construct than destroy, tell the truth than lie. A true "Master" realizes that he is a part of everyone and everyone is a part of himself.

Your ideas strike me as a form of social Darwinism combined with narcissism.

You may believe yourself to be a "Master", but there is always someone more powerful than you pulling your strings. And along your line of thinking; have fun getting robbed and shot by another "Master" who feels the same way you do. Or have fun seeing how your system of morality compares to the identified system of society we have when you wind up in jail. The only thing you will be than is a three-hole pleasure factory.

Lol. How can people use tactics that I know inside and out against me? That shit doesn't work on me. Why would another Master rob people, or shoot me? That doesn't make any sense. Masters don't do things that will bring negative to them because their motto is self-preservation. I'd have to bring that upon myself through a very poor decision, which isn't likely cause I'm all about not getting robbed and shot. Self-preservation and all. Why would I end up in jail. I'm very unlikely to break laws, because of self-preservation. Going to jail is bad for me, so I'm not likely to do things that will land me in jail.

It's not morality, read my post more carefully. Morality is a guide to behavior that involves, at least in part, avoiding and preventing harm to some others.

This is just blatantly incorrect and ill-defined, morality is thinking about how we ought to act. You are just taking up egoism as far as I can see, a common moral system in capitalist societies.

lolz epic fail. You claim to be amoral. You call yourself a master/shepherd, you then said they are either moral or imoral influencing the herd for good or bad. So from your own words you have just admitted to being part of this moral system that you deny being a part of.

Also "the heard" and "short cited" masterful typing. Seriously though how many times have you writeen "herd" and you can still get it wrong. A isn't even close enough to E to accidentally press it with one finger. Unless maybe you are obese.

Your an idiot. Other people have already explained how you are still following a moral system called egoism anyway. Just because your morals are ever so different from our lowly slave ones does not mean you are amoral.

The only epic fail is your reading comprehension. Actually, a master/shepherds actions are above morality, their actions being amoral or moral is a perception of the herd. Hitler was moral to Germans, and amoral to western allies, but his actions where above morality. Morality was applied after the actions. Actions becoming morality, have nothing to do with the action being taken out of morality.

I type fast, and I make typos, cause I'm human. You spelled "written" wrong while pointing out my typos. Hypocrite.

I'm an idiot? Maybe you should look up some definitions.

First of all, yes, I am following egoism. It's not a moral system though, it's an ethical system. Everyone has an ethical system, you simply can't escape it. However, egoism is not a moral system, actually it's the opposite.

Morality is an ethical system too, but it's based around minimizing or eliminating harm to others.

Egoism is an ethical system based on self-interest.

See, I believe egoism is superior because to maximize your self-interest, you have to create everything sustainable around you. Economics, politics, agriculture, everything. When Egoism is used correctly, harm to others is minimized as a result, making morality unnecessary. However, the people I keep referring to as the "herd", aren't educated enough, smart enough, unbiased enough, and therefore incapable of correctly living according to a egoism. Some things that might be in their best interests might not be obvious to them, and they'll make decisions that will fuck up the world. To quell this, Masters take control of all information and institutions, and the results of their egoism, set the standard of morality for the herd. That is why they act above morality, outside it's constraints, but their actions lead to common morality.

Everyone has morals people who try to deny that they have morals are all just talking shit even the joker from batman has morals and no one is as crazy as him Charles Manson has morals and I doubt anyone on this forum is as batshit crazy

Everyone has morals people who try to deny that they have morals are all just talking shit even the joker from batman has morals and no one is as crazy as him Charles Manson has morals and I doubt anyone on this forum is as batshit crazy

Everyone has a system of ethics, but not always morals.

Tomato tomato potato potato
Stop trying to come off as a bad ass and just accept the fact that you still have morals.

Tomato tomato potato potato
Stop trying to come off as a bad ass and just accept the fact that you still have morals.

Quit being retarded, because morality is an ethical system, which I don't use. So I don't have morals, but I do have an ethical system.

Technically, I'm not even practicing Egoism either. I have no Ego. I don't see myself as a separate being. To me, I'm a son of God. This means I'm an offshoot or partition of Universal will, conscious, and the universe. I have no Ego, as I don't distinguish myself as separate from these things. I'm not really acting completely in self-interest, but in the interest of God. However, there is no moral imperative in my actions either. I don't act at all in the name of reducing or eliminating harm which is what moral ethics are. I act to benefit the system which I'm part of, and other people just benefit as a result, but the motive wasn't those results. I'm here to create better function. My actions are intended to create this better function. I don't even know if there is even a term to describe this.

im neither nothing or herd or sheep.
im a crow with heavens wings
but i feel what the OP is saying....the ideas and mindset of the herd and to be in it, especially as a totse member is to not be ur trueself as the ideals of the herd are different.
but eitherways we are all products of society whether we like it or not.
i have pride in my county japan and will gladly give my life for it, but religion and morals of japan is not engraved in me and i could give a rats ass what people say is good or bad....
thats why im a heavens krow.
i will always be stained in the dark street side, but slowly trying to fly up above in a better world.

Three cheers for nothing!

Horrah!

Morals aren't there just for the herd, if you preffer to call society that, but they are also there to protect you. I don't think anyone can preserve self-management without the use of morals, just keep that in mind, I'm in no mood to try to explain it to you :(

Lol. How can people use tactics that I know inside and out against me? That shit doesn't work on me. Why would another Master rob people, or shoot me? That doesn't make any sense. Masters don't do things that will bring negative to them because their motto is self-preservation. I'd have to bring that upon myself through a very poor decision, which isn't likely cause I'm all about not getting robbed and shot. Self-preservation and all. Why would I end up in jail. I'm very unlikely to break laws, because of self-preservation. Going to jail is bad for me, so I'm not likely to do things that will land me in jail.

This sounds like, "Think good thoughts and good things will happen."

Wrong, if everyone is either in the herd or out which side do you think the robbers and murderers fall on? They're disobeying the law, so they aren't in. yet you say they can't be out becahuse you're out and owuldn't do that because of self preservation. Mugging someone is very much self preservation. I mean, they likely aren't doing it for fun.

In reality, you're just ignoring all the variables you can't comprehend, infinite possible scenarios and whatnot.

Not that it would do you any good to recant on what you've said, you'll get robbed and shot just the same, in the herd or not. You look like a stupid herder to me either way. Around the time I graduated high school is when I began to give up on individualism on any scale. I still intend to be myself at all costs, but I lost a lot of ego. I no longer thought that just because I was me, I would succeed. Like life is just a tv show of which I'm the star.

Make no mistake, it can happen here, it can happen to you. Hust because you think you're some master you can die in a car wreck tomorrow get robbed get cancer nothing can save you. Nothing.

I've recently come to the realization that I am no longer part of the herd. I stand apart from the masses now, and only have three paths for life. I can be a shepherd, a wolf, or be nothing. Standing out of the herd I've realized something though, and that is that morality is of zero use to me anymore. The only thing that matters for someone like me now, is getting what I want, and morality is pointless for me. Sure, I have to be aware of the morality of the masses, and not put myself in a situation where I may become punished by them for my lack of morality, but this is simply acting out of self-preservation, not morality. There is nothing that is inherently good, bad, or evil for me. I have no pity for what I might inflict on the herd, as the herd has no value to me except in fulfilling my wants. Really, being apart from the herd already means I will never be accepted by the herd unless I deceive everyone into thinking I am.

If you are giving up morality because it was of no use to you in the first place, then I think you never really had it anyway. Morality, being subjective and man-made, exists for its own sake. If one was to be moral, it would be for reasons separate from its practicality, unless that was a tenet of the system anyway (which, in our society, it most definitely is). You were simply engaging in morality for the sake of sustaining yourself, which you've already distinguished as something different.

As for this herd and matrix shit you've been spouting; I can't see any point in debating you on it. The only system I know of that brainwashes the vast majority of people is simply society/people. No Jewish conspiracies, no new world order, not even the U.S. government, the incompetent fuckers. I can't see anything that cohesive and efficient forming behind everyone's eyes.

Sure, there are followers and there are leaders, I'll grant you that. But you, especially because you're a visitor of the internet, have absolutely no choice in being anything different, aside from just being fucking dead, if it matters that much to you. The fact that you were raised within the confines of society has condemned you to it for life.

My point is that if you are a member of a group (and you are unarguably a part of one), then you are a part of a herd. If I may paraphrase Nietzsche: "Insanity is the exception in individuals, but in masses, it is the rule." Pure individualism is like absolute zero; no matter how cold an object gets, it will always retain some heat from its environment. As you will always contain remnants of the herd. Cheers.

To the OP,

I am having trouble understanding what kind of claim you are trying to make. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you are trying to accomplish the following:

1.) Self-declare yourself as different from "the herd," whatever the herd is.
2.) Defining the difference between you and "the herd" by stating that you, "no longer have morals."
3.) Claim that "morals" do not exist.
4.) Claim that what we call "morals" are created by people like you who no longer have "morals."

First, I looked up the definition of "morals" because I assumed, perhaps falsely, that morals were simply beliefs about what actions we should or should not take. You seem to want to suggest that "morals" are "based around minimizing harm to others." The oxford dictionary definition was, "Standards of behaviour, or principles of right or wrong." Thus, I think that a large part of the arguments in this post are simple disagreements on terminology. Everyone who has disagreed with you has simply been using a definition of "morals" and "morality" in a broader sense than you have; and on this point, I personally believe that your definition of "morals" is narrow and is certainly not the way most philosophers would use the word. So, I do not think it benefits your claim to hold on to this distinction and think you should move on from your superiority complex and accept that you have a MORAL framework, one that is focused on self-interest, and perhaps one that is different from the general public.

But enough quibbling about definitions. I think that they're important, but I also want to address your ideas, not just your presentation of those ideas. In particular, I want to deal with the "self-interested" system that you have tried to lay out before us. My understanding of your "ethical (moral) system" is that it is a system of pragmatics. In a number of posts, you mention "better" or "worse" actions (though you admit that this is perhaps a poor way to describe them). My understanding of your system is that what is "better" or "worse" is assessed by choosing the action that will benefit YOU the most. I guess in a later post you correct yourself and say that when you say "YOU," you mean it in some grander sense of "YOU THE PARTITION OF THE UNIVERSAL BEING."

Okay, master, forgive me if I have misrepresented your ideas, but I feel like your ethical system as laid out has provided me with very little. Essentially, you've told me that there are "better" and "worse" actions for YOU but have not laid out any way of determining what those actions might be EXCEPT that the actions that benefit YOU are better than the actions that do not benefit YOU. Unfortunately, this is what we call a circular argument: we are using a definition of "better" and "worse" to determine what will benefit YOU and simultaneously using a definition of what benefits YOU to determine what is "better" and "worse."

You and I, I think, both agree on the following: in this world, there are people--"masters"--that have the ability to determine what ethical system the rest of the "herds" on this planet decide to live by. But let me be frank with you, master to master, I find your thinking to be shallow. If you hope to be a shepherd, I would hope that you will spend some more time trying to assess what type of ethical system, whether it be what you call "morality" or "egoism" or your generalized form of "YOU (in the royal sense)-egoism," you are going to live by and lead others to live by, and to seriously consider how the system you choose to adopt reflects certain values that are important or not important to you (for instance, your indifference to the "herd" or other people in this world).

In hopes of continued dialogue towards progress...
May your thinking find clarity.
-Dalaran

Does anyone else feel morals are simply a construct of the herd, but a free man, on the outside of the herd looking in, doesn't need such a system of morality?

No.

If your bodily desires change the way you think, then your body controls your mind.

You cannot be truly free if something controls your mind.

Morals combat fleshy desires and allow you to free yourself from them.

Morals free your mind by disciplining your body.

Understand?

If you have no morals, then you are ruled by what you want. Even though you are pursuing what you want, if you will feel unfulfilled without obtaining it, then your desires control you.

Guess what?

The entire "herd" you speak of is only out to get one thing...

and it's what they want.

You're just as much of a sucker as everyone else. Understand that submitting to something larger than yourself (such as the idea of right and wrong) is not a form of idiocy. It is a wise man who realizes that he is incredibly flawed. There are a lot of "enlightened" people out there who think that morals, core values, etc. are a form of societal brainwashing. GUESS WHAT? These people spend their whole lives in the pursuit of one ideal, which is anything that nobody else wants. These are the people who wore trench coats and fedoras in high school because it was "alternative".

Sometimes, you just have to do what's right. You know what that is. Stop fooling yourself. This moral stuff is all true and you know it.

There are many times when the "herd" doesn't do what's right. Divorce, for instance. Many members of the "herd" ruin entire families by getting divorced - in fact, 50% of marriages today end in divorce. Someone with a strong system of moral conduct would not divorce his wife just to make himself happier at the expense of his children.

Society LOVES to do what's wrong. Society is ruled by its own desires. We live in a society of instant gratification. We live in a society of vices.

Morals are the only way to be free. Free your mind, my man. Give up your vices. Give them up because they control you. Give them up because your physical urges control the way you think.

Develop a system of moral conduct. Know what's right and what's wrong. DO WHAT'S RIGHT! Then you are not serving the herd. Then you are serving something bigger than the universe. Then you are serving the proper natural flow of things.

Society LOVES to do what's wrong. Society has no morals. Society is ALL ABOUT "me me me me me". You claim to be free because you are all about "me me me me me". That's exactly the bullshit everyone else fell for, and that's WHY they're members of the herd, and so are you.

Morals mean that you do the right thing all the time, regardless of what the "herd" does. Morals mean you are free.

Now shut up and sit down.

No.

If your bodily desires change the way you think, then your body controls your mind.

You cannot be truly free if something controls your mind.

Morals combat fleshy desires and allow you to free yourself from them.

Morals free your mind by disciplining your body.

Understand?
.

*slow claps*