A .308 AR-10 has been on my wishlist for a couple years now. Now with our illustrious new leader, I think it has just moved up to top priority.

I've been highly considering this DPMS Panther
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/dpms_rfa2-308.jpg

Budget is $1600 with gun, variable power optic, and a few mags. Any alternate suggestions or information on that Panther?

Hmm..I could save up a couple more months and get a Springfield M1A Scout, which I've heard many good things about.

Is it a more reliable/accurate weapon? If you were to compare it to the AR-10, what would be the (dis)advantages of both?


Im wanting to scope the gun. Probably a 4-16x. I want something that can reach out there a few hundred yards and sling lead into coyotes, zombies, paradropping koreans, whatever the case may be. I figure a 4-16x scope ought to be good for anything between 40 yards and the effective accuracy range of the rifle in my budget. If it gets any closer than that, well, I'll drop the rifle and grab a shotgun. :o

god damnit its a gun that will hit reasonably sized targets just like any other gun in its price range buy it or quit procrastinating. they're all stock it doesnt matter.

god damnit its a gun that will hit reasonably sized targets just like any other gun in its price range buy it or quit procrastinating. they're all stock it doesnt matter.

Damnit man. I do a lot of homework when Im researching a buy.

As far as the procrastinating..I'll stop doing that later. :o

all right my friend lets do some homeowork. gun + bullet = bang. i treat a hi-point .45 like I treat any any stock glock, stock hk, stock 1911 in the 400-700 range. it will all hit the same shit and probably go through just as much torture. theres nothin special about the metal beretta uses in its pistols, in fact i think the design of the hi point is incredibly more sturdy and sound, even if its ugly and not tacticool. so you can buy whatever damn gun you want they'll all shoot the same out of th box.. its them damn match barrels, nitrous cyanide coatings, cocaine bead blastings and other retarded ass shit a concrecte mixer or a painter would not need on a rifle. im certain if you're lookin to kill you some damn deer, any five hundred dollar walmart rifle would do the exact same job at 300-500 yards. its just a matter of whether or not it needs to be made by a brand name, needs to be tacticool, etc, kind of like for the kids these days it has to be either reebok or nike. u gotta roll with the herd and be with a gang, because wearin nike means you're part of some sort of elite team of baskettball stars. adidas on the ohter hand is nothin but a bunch of fag european tennis players that all the kids laugh at. do you see where im going with this? dont be a damn trendsitter get you a savage .22 and kill a hog at 400m and put it on youtube. i bet that'll change everyone's mind about guns and all of this stupid ass feminine gun clique shiet. what ever happened to good ol' "hi-standard" shotguns you could pick up in sporting stores back in the 70's? that's what im talkin about, american made and american trusted it'l hit what you're fuckin aimin at. unless you make guns dont think guns, just get somethin that'll hit shit you will not need to take out a raghead at 4000000000 meters with any damn rifle any time.

Alright, I like your simplified approach.

I want:
Hard hitting caliber with long range accuracy AND semi-auto operation. 2 moa out to 500 yards on a nice calm day will make me happy.

A gun that doesn't fucking jam up or misfire. I clean my guns every couple hundred rounds if they need it or not, and I don't use shitty ammo.

Whichever does the first one better, and the second least often with higher tolerance, falling under my budget, is what I shall get.

Alright, I like your simplified approach.

I want:
Hard hitting caliber with long range accuracy AND semi-auto operation. 2 moa out to 500 yards on a nice calm day will make me happy.

A gun that doesn't fucking jam up or misfire. I clean my guns every couple hundred rounds if they need it or not, and I don't use shitty ammo.

Whichever does the first one better, and the second least often with higher tolerance, falling under my budget, is what I shall get.

Great for you my friend it's a real inspiration to me to see someone who's actually opened minded and smart. I mean check out this video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7TWkLJ8ZmY) where they put a twelve dollar CHINESE MANUFACTURED knife through as much tortue as possible and it comes out TOUGHER THAN STRYDER, TOUGHER THAN COLD STEEL, TOUGHER THAN ANY CUSTOM MADE KNIFE they ever tested. They hammered it through FUCKIN CONCRETE. MORE THAN TEN ACTION PACKED VIDEOS OF why you dont need expensive ass shit. metal is metal its ALL mass produced. im so sick and god damned tired of people that act like any gun is superior over the other, half of the time these faggots can shoot if their life depended on it or they have weak ass hands (like that thetareactor's ignorant ass). used to be you got a gun and no matter what you tried your damndest to put it to the best use you can, overcoming it's natural "flaws" (if there is such a thing) through hard work and compensation. it aint fuckin hard no gun is going to break on your or anything, and if you clean it it won't jam either. im sorry if i derailed your thread or if im coming across as a little rude, but i am real sick and tired of city boy weapons. i suggest you buy whatever you can afford my friend, be it two five hundred dollar walmart rifles (one you can take through hell to see that all guns are equal) or one of those 1,000 dollar phaser rifles which you will feel guilty over when it gets a scratch on it or ends up being about as durable as an airsoft gun.

I don't agree with you there. I've got a vintage Winchester Model 70 I've put countless rounds through with only a couple of duds.

Then I've got a cheap Chinese shotgun that misfires every 5 shots, regardless of the ammo I use or how clean it is. Quite simply because Chinese manufacturing is sub par, and they managed to make a simple design work like shit. It's mass produced, but it's not created equal.

Quality does make a difference in performance, but price doesn't always buy quality. I don't give a rats ass about brand names or the image that comes with the logo on the box. You will get no argument from me there.



Im just wondering if there is something higher quality out there for the price Im willing to pay.

yeah it's true some times you can get a dud right out of the box. believe it or not i actually bump fired a hi-point .45 pistol (and it's hard to bumpfire that heavy of a pistol) for hundreds of rounds at the range with no prior outofbox cleaning and it was just fine, no misfires. every single damn one of them was bumpfired. but then ive had some lorcin 380s that simply dont shoot out of the box.

yeah it's true some times you can get a dud right out of the box. believe it or not i actually bump fired a hi-point .45 pistol (and it's hard to bumpfire that heavy of a pistol) for hundreds of rounds at the range with no prior outofbox cleaning and it was just fine, no misfires. every single damn one of them was bumpfired. but then ive had some lorcin 380s that simply dont shoot out of the box.



I'd scrap that pistola before if blew your fucking hand off.

itll be all right, ill just get on disability and go back to beatin my kids obamas president i aint gotta do nothin. im the workin class.

Your budget is 1600 for gun and optic together? Kinda tight.

Im really big on the m1a/m14. very reliable and more accurate than most shooters. Springfield armory is OK, but if I was gonna spend that kinda money id get one from Fulton Armory made of all USGI parts.

As for the optic. A really sweet tactical scope (I like the Leupold mk4) will run you about 1300. Plus, you still have to buy some rings and a mount for your rifle. As for rings I like the ARMS quick release throw levers. With an M1a you'll want to run low spacers.

But all you have is 1600 for the complete setup, one of these isnt a bad starter optic. http://www.millettsights.com/controller.php/catalog/tactical_trs You can find one for around 300.

BTW this plywood dude is a moron.

2 MOA at 500 yds? Better keep saving! With this budget you should be happy with 1.5-2 MOA at 100. Which is where a good quality optic, match quality ammo, and that DPMS or rack grade m1a will get you.

god damnit its a gun that will hit reasonably sized targets just like any other gun in its price range buy it or quit procrastinating. they're all stock it doesnt matter.

You mean like a Mosin Nagant?

itll be all right, ill just get on disability and go back to beatin my kids obamas president i aint gotta do nothin. im the workin class.
I just lowered myself to your "working class" level, gangsta.

You mean like a Mosin Nagant?

No I do not mean like a sixty-dollar rifle that will not hit what you want and gets stuck after firing and snaps in half when dropped on wet grass, seeing as it's stock is of the consistency of firewood and is commonly nailed together to create the illusion that it is "one". Nice try though.

That proves how much you DON'T know about firearms.

That proves how much you DON'T know about firearms.
No worries. Hopefully R_L will get back soon and eliminate this persistently annoying and uneducated troll

Who the hell are you to talk jackass? You're a seventeen year old Swede you've never even owned any firearms before. Have you ever even seen a Mosin Nagant before?

But all you have is 1600 for the complete setup, one of these isnt a bad starter optic. http://www.millettsights.com/controller.php/catalog/tactical_trs You can find one for around 300.

I was checking out that exact optic. :D

And what do you mean about this 1.5-2 MOA @ 100y?:eek: I thought even entry level AR systems were capable of sub MOA at 100 yards with the right optic and shooter..

By this picture (http://www.dpmsinc.com/forum/posts.aspx?postID=159), Im pretty damn impressed.

Though who knows, it is the DPMS site, so that may be the 300 yard group for all we know.

Might I be better off assembling one myself and saving a couple hundred bucks, or rather, putting the couple hundred towards a nicer trigger or optic?

If so, what parts to use, and where to get them?

you've never even owned any firearms before.
Oh really?

Oh really?

Please guys, if you must continue this pissing contest, do it elsewhere.

I would like to point out that there are notorious reliability issues with most .308 AR-15 rifles, including the AR-10, SR-25, etc.

I would like to point out that there are notorious reliability issues with most .308 AR-15 rifles, including the AR-10, SR-25, etc.

What issues would those be?

And what would a better .308 semi be which would fit my budget and criteria?

What issues would those be?

And what would a better .308 semi be which would fit my budget and criteria?

Jamming issues. I've shot .308 AR's a little bit and never had any problems, but I do not have all that much experience with them.

Honestly, I'd consider the FAL. I am not recommending it over a .308 AR, but am just warning you to do plenty of research before making the commitment.

What issues would those be?

And what would a better .308 semi be which would fit my budget and criteria?

Did someone mention M1a?

all right my friend lets do some homeowork. gun + bullet = bang. i treat a hi-point .45 like I treat any any stock glock, stock hk, stock 1911 in the 400-700 range. it will all hit the same shit and probably go through just as much torture. theres nothin special about the metal beretta uses in its pistols, in fact i think the design of the hi point is incredibly more sturdy and sound, even if its ugly and not tacticool. so you can buy whatever damn gun you want they'll all shoot the same out of th box.. its them damn match barrels, nitrous cyanide coatings, cocaine bead blastings and other retarded ass shit a concrecte mixer or a painter would not need on a rifle. im certain if you're lookin to kill you some damn deer, any five hundred dollar walmart rifle would do the exact same job at 300-500 yards. its just a matter of whether or not it needs to be made by a brand name, needs to be tacticool, etc, kind of like for the kids these days it has to be either reebok or nike. u gotta roll with the herd and be with a gang, because wearin nike means you're part of some sort of elite team of baskettball stars. adidas on the ohter hand is nothin but a bunch of fag european tennis players that all the kids laugh at. do you see where im going with this? dont be a damn trendsitter get you a savage .22 and kill a hog at 400m and put it on youtube. i bet that'll change everyone's mind about guns and all of this stupid ass feminine gun clique shiet. what ever happened to good ol' "hi-standard" shotguns you could pick up in sporting stores back in the 70's? that's what im talkin about, american made and american trusted it'l hit what you're fuckin aimin at. unless you make guns dont think guns, just get somethin that'll hit shit you will not need to take out a raghead at 4000000000 meters with any damn rifle any time.

Have you been trying to hammer in nails with your head again?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/vasShadow3/6fkc2eo.png

all right my friend lets do some homeowork. gun + bullet = bang. i treat a hi-point .45 like I treat any any stock glock, stock hk, stock 1911 in the 400-700 range. it will all hit the same shit and probably go through just as much torture. theres nothin special about the metal beretta uses in its pistols, in fact i think the design of the hi point is incredibly more sturdy and sound, even if its ugly and not tacticool. so you can buy whatever damn gun you want they'll all shoot the same out of th box.. its them damn match barrels, nitrous cyanide coatings, cocaine bead blastings and other retarded ass shit a concrecte mixer or a painter would not need on a rifle. im certain if you're lookin to kill you some damn deer, any five hundred dollar walmart rifle would do the exact same job at 300-500 yards. its just a matter of whether or not it needs to be made by a brand name, needs to be tacticool, etc, kind of like for the kids these days it has to be either reebok or nike. u gotta roll with the herd and be with a gang, because wearin nike means you're part of some sort of elite team of baskettball stars. adidas on the ohter hand is nothin but a bunch of fag european tennis players that all the kids laugh at. do you see where im going with this? dont be a damn trendsitter get you a savage .22 and kill a hog at 400m and put it on youtube. i bet that'll change everyone's mind about guns and all of this stupid ass feminine gun clique shiet. what ever happened to good ol' "hi-standard" shotguns you could pick up in sporting stores back in the 70's? that's what im talkin about, american made and american trusted it'l hit what you're fuckin aimin at. unless you make guns dont think guns, just get somethin that'll hit shit you will not need to take out a raghead at 4000000000 meters with any damn rifle any time.

Holy SHIT! We have us a new asshole/mall ninja! :rolleyes:

Holy SHIT! We have us a new asshole/mall ninja! :rolleyes:

Seems we have a new one every week.

If you're looking into a precision semi, I'd say spring for the AR10. M1As tend not to group as well out of the box. Just realize it's still a direct gas impinged weapon with a buffer tube that goes all the way into the stock. You'll probably have to give it a little moar attention than any other of those battle rifle choices.

An FAL would be a great choice too, but they tend to not be set up for optics, and the ones that are (those DSA precision ones) are spendy. Again, I'd say for the price, the DPMS AR10 is your best choice in a semi auto precision .308.

Cookies: Brownells.com has all sorts of gunsmithing goodies, I use them a lot.

An entry level AR, Im assuming 600-800 is unlikely to get you sub MOA groups. Hell, Les Baer ARs cost twice as much and only guarantee 1/2 MOA with match grade ammo.

But do you really NEED sub MOA at this point? That DPMS you pictured, Im sure could drive holes in a pie plate at 300 yards or more, all day, given good shooting and ammo.

Staying at the same price range an AR will probobly buy you more accuracy, but not reliability. Since you clean your guns fairly often, this shouldnt really matter.

Again, you can buy a sub MOA rifle but with mid grade optics and shooting its pointless. A bolt gun may get you more accuracy for the price.

DPMS makes good stuff, I have their panther .223 carbine. It will hold about 2in groups at 100 yards with an ACOG. Based on what Ive read in magazines the .308 variants are just as accurate.

I was checking out the LRT SASS at a gunshow, it seems like a solidly built rifle and DPMS claims sub MOA accuracy. MSRP about 2000

As far as other .30 calibers go, how about a BAR or possibly even a Romak/PSL?

Where I'm going in the army next year they use AR .308's, specifically HK417's. They were delivered just a couple months ago. They only use it as a marksman's rifle though, standard issue is the HK416.

I think I'll go with the DPMS Panther. One with an 18" barrel, and rig it up with an Aimpoint ML3 and a magnifier on a pivot mount. Probably a bipod for good measure.

Porn when I get it.