You decide.

Heavy car, or heaviest car ever?

Probably will be a great car, unfortunately with a cheap plastic interior. Will most likely eat the new Mustangs for breakfast and rape small children.

Unless GM can figure out a way to make the car much cheaper and get several more mpg than the 3.6L, they need to not even bother with the LNF. Moreso, the car weighs too much for an LNF to be advantageous. The 3.6 is also a very light engine, and likely weighs close to an LNF because you have to throw in the turbo and all the plumbing.

Don't get me wrong, it looks like an fun car, but it weighs what, 3800lbs? There are SUVs that weigh less. Drop off 600 lbs and you have a much more entertaining car. Straights are only fun for so long.

Last I heard they hadn't released info on the V8. The 3.6 alone makes 320hp, so I think they're going to throw in a surprise (super?) and people are going to be impressed. It's got the Vipers 6 speed, big brembo brakes and some fancy stage 3 suspension. It would be a waste to throw less than 400 horses in front of that when people could get 320 out of their v6.

Considering the LSA in the '09 CTS-V makes 550hp 550tq, and the more boosted twin in the '09 ZR1, the LS9, makes 638hp 600tq, I don't think it would be a stretch at all to see 400hp in the '09 Camaro. Holden Monaros were putting out 412hp 412tq four years ago with the LS2. And how about this 638hp LSX 454 powered ugly duckling? (http://www.caradvice.com.au/18497/pontiac-g8-gxp-street-concept-for-sema/)

575hp in the Camaro would be nice, but thing is still 1000lbs overweight.

Seeing as it hasn't been put into production yet and thusly the OP or anyone outside of GM employees and automotive journalists hasn't driven it yet, that's an impossible call to make. Also consider it isn't even a finished product yet, and it is indeed an american car built for american roads, which may limit it's scope for entertainment, though apparently early word is it drives nicely.

All I know is, I couldn't care less. By the way, I'm in america right now... you yanks eat the worst food evar.

Ugly, heavy, and slow.

I'm more excited about the release of the new Mustang coming out. And with the rate of Chevy on the Camaro, even that Mustang will be out long before this Camaro.

They are taking WAY too long to get the overrated piece of crap into production.

^ I agree. Where is this car already? And where's the Volt? The Mustang is a little tiresome, but the refresh looks nice.

Though you can't hardly blame GM or Chrysler for their projects seeming stillborn, neither of them look like they'll see Christmas. The Camaro and the Volt should have been out a year ago. Township, the Camaro will handle superbly, mark my words, no matter how heavy it is or how much power its producing. It's on the relatively new Zeta platform. Ontarians eat two meals a day.

the Camaro will handle superbly, mark my words, no matter how heavy it is or how much power its producing.

That doesn't make it fun to drive. Sure a Gallardo can outhandle a MK1 GTI, but does that make it more fun to drive? Unless you happen to live on VIR, there's really not reason to worry about the numbers that much. I'm guessing GM will pull a Nissan and make a heavy car that makes nice numbers and is absolute shit to drive.

That doesn't make it fun to drive. Sure a Gallardo can outhandle a MK1 GTI, but does that make it more fun to drive? Unless you happen to live on VIR, there's really not reason to worry about the numbers that much. I'm guessing GM will pull a Nissan and make a heavy car that makes nice numbers and is absolute shit to drive.

Not according to everyone that's driven it.

Cronic, how can you say it's underpowered when the V8 hasn't even been released, and the challenger's v8 only has 80 more horses in their SRT package? People need to get off dodges dick and accept that chevy has something going for them here.

Not according to everyone that's driven it.

Not verbatim, but paraphrase from one journalist "It's like driving a robot, it's a car without soul"

Yes, he said robot and soul.

the ls-7 fits right in, and its a sad fact that todays safety features bloat cars so much. i like the look of the new camaro, much better than the most recent generations.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/13/2010-chevrolet-camaro-priced-ls-22-995-ss-30-995/
the DI 3.6 makes 300 hp and starts at $23k. thats pretty cheap for 300 hp, the ss starts at $31k for 422 hp (ls-3)
http://jalopnik.com/5075091/chevy-hits-sema-with-four-camaro-concepts-and-a-load-of-accessories
and out of its competitors (ford mustang gt 500 3920 lbs / gt 3480 lb, challenger srt 8 4140 lbs), the camaro is mid pack at 3741 lbs for the v-6 and 3913 for the ss. the rs body looks alot better than the challenger and mustang, i've seen all three in person. plus you can get the tremec six speed in it. i would love to drop the ls-9 crate motor in it. the ls-7 fits

the ls-7 fits right in, and its a sad fact that todays safety features bloat cars so much. i like the look of the new camaro, much better than the most recent generations.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/13/2010-chevrolet-camaro-priced-ls-22-995-ss-30-995/
the DI 3.6 makes 300 hp and starts at $23k. thats pretty cheap for 300 hp, the ss starts at $31k for 422 hp (ls-3)
http://jalopnik.com/5075091/chevy-hits-sema-with-four-camaro-concepts-and-a-load-of-accessories
and out of its competitors (ford mustang gt 500 3920 lbs / gt 3480 lb, challenger srt 8 4140 lbs), the camaro is mid pack at 3741 lbs for the v-6 and 3913 for the ss. the rs body looks alot better than the challenger and mustang, i've seen all three in person. plus you can get the tremec six speed in it. i would love to drop the ls-9 crate motor in it. the ls-7 fits

...or for 33k (let's say 37 with decent options) you could get a car twice as good. The "modern muscle cars" are for two types of people.
1. People who desperately need to get laid
2. people who wanted them the first time around, but couldn't get one

Neiter group is especially intelligent or auto savvy. Compare that to the average Audi or Merc owner and get back to me.

The Camaro isn't a bad car. It's a rental car.

...or for 33k (let's say 37 with decent options) you could get a car twice as good. The "modern muscle cars" are for two types of people.
1. People who desperately need to get laid
2. people who wanted them the first time around, but couldn't get one

Neiter group is especially intelligent or auto savvy. Compare that to the average Audi or Merc owner and get back to me.

The Camaro isn't a bad car. It's a rental car.

Or people who like cars that are familiar to them. Mopar might be pretty cool, but I don't know alot about their engines. I do, however, know a fair amount of GM cars, so I like to buy GM. When something breaks, or I want to play around with something under the hood, I'll be much more familiar with it.

Btw, I am definitely getting the VUE now. Basically we've been swapping around good and bad engines with good and bad VUEs and we ended up with one good VUE and one good 2.2/manual. Next week I'll probably have a clutch disc and slave in it, and I'll take the balance shafts to get turned down. The next weekend after getting them turned, I'll have them back and likely have the car running before the end of the day if I can get the interior all back in.

Or people who like cars that are familiar to them. Mopar might be pretty cool, but I don't know alot about their engines. I do, however, know a fair amount of GM cars, so I like to buy GM. When something breaks, or I want to play around with something under the hood, I'll be much more familiar with it.

Btw, I am definitely getting the VUE now. Basically we've been swapping around good and bad engines with good and bad VUEs and we ended up with one good VUE and one good 2.2/manual.

3900 lbs. In a sports car. This isn't 1956 where a 4,000 lb Mercury is a sports car.

3900 lbs. In a sports car. This isn't 1956 where a 4,000 lb Mercury is a sports car.

Steel weighs a lot. If they want an aluminum space frame and the engineering and performance that goes with it they should buy a Corvette.

To wit, the Camaro won't have a space fame at all. It's a steel unibody.

Steel weighs a lot. If they want an aluminum space frame and the engineering and performance that goes with it they should buy a Corvette.

To wit, the Camaro won't have a space fame at all. It's a steel unibody.

Just did a lil more reading and the weight balance is identical to a 3 series, its suspension isnt from the stone age, and its got nice big disks all around. But shit. Two more inches of wheelbase on a 3 series and 300 lbs more? Meh.

Edit: Maybe I'm being hard on it because it's so over-acclaimed. It's a baby vette. It's got the same fucking engine as a z51 for chrissakes. Should be fun to see it race a 335i, though.

The "modern muscle cars" are for two types of people.
1. People who desperately need to get laid
2. people who wanted them the first time around, but couldn't get one

Neiter group is especially intelligent or auto savvy. Compare that to the average Audi or Merc owner and get back to me.

The Camaro isn't a bad car. It's a rental car.

You got it there. Anyone with a real hard on for a Camaro, Mustang or Challenger would buy a "real" one and build it for that price. You're never going to see the people who had originals driving a modern one, spare collectors. The era where you felt connected to your car was gone when plastic wood got glued to the plastic dash.

look up the modern holden monaro.

I was going to get one, but I'm thinking I'll just get a 2006 or 2007 cts-v.

I was going to get one, but I'm thinking I'll just get a 2006 or 2007 cts-v.

Those CTS-V's are very well executed designs I think, and cannot blame you for wanting one...
...you're not into the G8 GT's? Theres a 415hp - 415ft lbs six speed manual GXP '09 (http://www.g8board.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20) version, which as you would know features the Zeta platform that the Camaro is now using too. 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and the acceleration just gets angrier from there up. Runs 12's on the Quarter mile bone stock. The suspension, tuned at the famous Nurburgring, helps it to corner likes it's on rails (unless you purposely kick the tail out) and outhandle and outbrake nearly everything on the road.

It's another phenomenal performance sedan with a kickarse price. I can see that you're into performance sedans, and there's no reason not to be - examples such as the GXP decimate most supercars! Sounds like an unbelievable claim, but it's backed up by the facts.

You're not into the G8 GT's? The '09 GXP is a pretty damn cool ride. Those CTS-V's are very well executed designs I think, and cannot blame you for wanting one.

The G8 is a pretty sweet ride. Every time I see one I go "sweet, a Commodore!" Mind I'd still take a BF Falcon with the Turbo I6, but then again it isn't available here...

Those BF Falcons are great looking cars, and the XR6T has a whooparse drivetrain. Handling dynamics are a bit behind the times though.

Still, I wouldn't mind owning one at all.

General Motors just (half an hour ago) released a fresh batch of pictures to GMInsideNews.com of the finalised GXP, ready for production: (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f14/gm-releases-new-g8-gxp-photos-71713/)

(samples)
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/563/medium/gx1.jpghttp://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/563/medium/gx8.jpghttp://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/6/I/1/09g8gxp_int.jpg

Click here (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=563) for high resolution gallery. I won't mention it anymore.

Those BF Falcons are great looking cars, and the XR6T has a whooparse drivetrain. Handling dynamics are a bit behind the times though.

Still, I wouldn't mind owning one at all.

For me, the falcon is more about cruising and wallowing around, and the XR6T motor would be having some proper highway grunt. It's extra comfy and though handling is a bit.. "old school", it can be a bit of a laugh some times. I would still enjoy the occasional hooning.

That LHD Commodore looks lovely inside, btw :D

I bet it's going to fall victim to the same basic problem the new Challenger is: Loads of impressive-looking power numbers, but way slower than it should be due to weighing close to 2 tons.

I've still got a mancrush on the Challenger. I haven't seen a modern muscle car that doesn't look like a boxy/square/small window mini-tank (i.e. new mustangs, the charger) in so long. the last decent American cars in my opinion came in the late 90s but the new Challenger and Cameros give me hope that maybe we are shifting out of this recent fad.

edit- now that i have looked at the pictures of the new camero i am dissapointed. it's fallen victim as the guy below me has already stated to a heavy weight and the modern designing techniques. looks too similar to every other dodge/chevy car out there and has fallen too far from its roots in the old cameros which are badass looking. not as intimidating as a 88 iroc or hell even a 90s model.

EDIT 2 what the fuck is this g8 that i am seeing? that hasn't hit the roads yet right? never heard of it until this thread..

All I know is, I couldn't care less. By the way, I'm in america right now... you yanks eat the worst food evar.

Wherever the hell you're from they sure do complain a lot.

Wherever the hell you're from they sure do complain a lot.

lol..

Wherever the hell you're from they sure do complain a lot.

I'm not really complaining. I still ate it, I'm just pointing out what a low standard of life part of America has. Mind that was a specific part that already has a poor reputation. And, I'm actually grading you cunts. Expect to recieve a full report card once I've gotten the full picture. Shape up.

Not according to everyone that's driven it.

Cronic, how can you say it's underpowered when the V8 hasn't even been released, and the challenger's v8 only has 80 more horses in their SRT package? People need to get off dodges dick and accept that chevy has something going for them here.

I never said it was underpowered?

When you weigh that much, sometimes even 500hp just isn't enough to get it moving.

I never said it was underpowered?

When you weigh that much, sometimes even 500hp just isn't enough to get it moving.

yep, see the gt-500 (new one) 3920 lbs, 0-60 in 4.5, 500 hp / 480 ft/lb

or you could look at the new S600, 0-60 in 4.2, almost 5000lbs, 517 hp / 612 ft/lb

if you look at the challenger srt-8 (425 hp and 420 ft/lb, 4140 lbs) makes 0-60 in 4.8, weighing ~200 lbs, and down 75 hp / 60 ft/lb, .3 seconds isnt much, and in the quarter its 12.9 to 13.3 sec with the gt-500 winning.

what these big fuckers need nowadays is that torque, and better suspension design. or really we just need to ditch safety devices that weigh cars down, we dont need no stinkin air bags and crumple zones. if we had better handling and faster cars, we'd be less prone to accidents. i read an article in an old popular science or popular mechanics mag and it was talking about cars with 200 hp or more are involved in less accidents than cars with less than 200 hp

You decide.

Wonder how many cold cuts you have to slice to get one of those.

I've still got a mancrush on the Challenger. I haven't seen a modern muscle car that doesn't look like a boxy/square/small window mini-tank (i.e. new mustangs, the charger) in so long. the last decent American cars in my opinion came in the late 90s but the new Challenger and Cameros give me hope that maybe we are shifting out of this recent fad.

edit- now that i have looked at the pictures of the new camero i am dissapointed. it's fallen victim as the guy below me has already stated to a heavy weight and the modern designing techniques. looks too similar to every other dodge/chevy car out there and has fallen too far from its roots in the old cameros which are badass looking. not as intimidating as a 88 iroc or hell even a 90s model.

EDIT 2 what the fuck is this g8 that i am seeing? that hasn't hit the roads yet right? never heard of it until this thread..

The 361hp sub $30,000 G8 GT came out some time ago this year, to phenomenal rave reviews. The reason you probably haven't seen many is because only a 20,000 or so (IIRC) have been exported to the US, and they're trying to sell in the face of record fuel prices and the economic downturn. Not many people are buying cars, let alone performance cars.

Check one out if you haven't seen one. I don't know how, but some reviewers have claimed to record a 4.4 second 0-60 for the GXP. That seems pretty unbelievable to me.

The 361hp sub $30,000 G8 GT came out some time ago this year, to phenomenal rave reviews. The reason you probably haven't seen many is because only a 20,000 or so (IIRC) have been exported to the US, and they're trying to sell in the face of record fuel prices and the economic downturn. Not many people are buying cars, let alone performance cars.

Check one out if you haven't seen one. I don't know how, but some reviewers have claimed to record a 4.4 second 0-60 for the GXP. That seems pretty unbelievable to me.

hey at least it isn't the 50 cent edition of the g6... :rolleyes:

hey at least it isn't the 50 cent edition of the g6... :rolleyes:

yeah, like I said, I don't know if you're into it. If you're in the market for a Camaro or STR8, then you might just be after taking a GT for a test drive.

The 361hp sub $30,000 G8 GT came out some time ago this year, to phenomenal rave reviews. The reason you probably haven't seen many is because only a 20,000 or so (IIRC) have been exported to the US, and they're trying to sell in the face of record fuel prices and the economic downturn. Not many people are buying cars, let alone performance cars.

Check one out if you haven't seen one. I don't know how, but some reviewers have claimed to record a 4.4 second 0-60 for the GXP. That seems pretty unbelievable to me.

i've seen one G8 on the road since its been released (outside of car shows). with its price i'd figure to see more. by comparison, i've seen three new m3's two coupes and one sedan, and bunch of other exotics. kinda surprising. i like 'em. its probably the import costs thats killing the general.

arent the g8 and new camaro made in aus

I'm not really complaining. I still ate it, I'm just pointing out what a low standard of life part of America has.

Not my fault since I don't vote neocon.

The 361hp sub $30,000 G8 GT came out some time ago this year, to phenomenal rave reviews. The reason you probably haven't seen many is because only a 20,000 or so (IIRC) have been exported to the US, and they're trying to sell in the face of record fuel prices and the economic downturn. Not many people are buying cars, let alone performance cars.

Check one out if you haven't seen one. I don't know how, but some reviewers have claimed to record a 4.4 second 0-60 for the GXP. That seems pretty unbelievable to me.

holden POWAH

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/25/pontiac-g8-gxp-rumored-to-lap-nurburgring-in-8-30/#comments

By an engineer? Impressive, but I want confirmation. And to see a professional driver behind the wheel, ambe bring that time down some. It performs better than the Porsche Boxter S.
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=track&track=2&filter1=true&filter2=true&filter3=true&filter4=false

http://www.pirellical.com/thecal/calendar.html