I just got back from a morning deer hunt. I was 100% positive I was about to hammer down on this one fat doe. She was about 220 yards away so I had my scope adjusted, got into a perfect sitting position, but then her vital organs got covered up by a tree. I waited patiently for her to expose just enough so I could squeeze the perfect shot off.

She exposed herself, and I squeezed a shot off, and nothing happened. Just the ominous click of the firing pin. About this time I was thinking "I knew I should have hand-loaded my ammunition". I opened the bolt and chambered another round. I get my breathing right, get my heart beat in check, and squeeze another shot off. It worked, but the doe literally stoped and looked at me. I was in the "Oh, shit how the fuck could I miss that" then she just dropped.

When I went up to the deer, the first thing I noticed is that there wasn't any exit wound, and the entry wound was tiny for .30 cal rifle. I proceeded to field dress said deer, and I was expecting to find a lung nearly torn in two, or a half exploded heart. Instead I found a small hole about the size of a .22.

The deer is dead and I'm no longer hungry, but what happened to cause those earlier issues? I checked the brass on the first round, and it was a good primer strike. The loads I'm using normally go through a deer with ease and screw up any organ in it's path.

Is it possible I just got a bad batch of Ammo? I'm a big fan of this particular load, but I normally duplicated with a "different" bullet.

Not enough powder perhaps?

well I would think weak charge also. Maybe all the powder didnt burn up or some of the gas leaked passed the bullet. what could explain the smaller .22 looking hole? Well when flesh gets hit it will open up and then close back up to a smaller hole is my guess.

Misfire would of been a dud primer, in factory loads they're quite rare but you can almost guarantee it will happen when hunting. Can happen with handloads too if you touch the primers with a little bit of oil on your fingers. If it had of been a light powder charge it still would of went bang but either dribbled out of the barrel or got stuck half way.

The terminal ballistics are interesting tho, did you recover the expanded round by any chance? was there any shrapnel in the wound channel? What caliber and load are you using? Something sounds wrong, If there was no exit it means the bullet come apart in the body which pretty much always = massive truma or in the case of a very under powered load you should have found an intact bullet somewhere while you were gutting it (and at 220y chances are you'd completely miss what you were aiming at). Sounds like the round has slipped through like a FMJ or Lapua Scenar, maybe it deflected and exited further down the body? but it's hard to miss an exit wound once you've skinned it.

Misfire would of been a dud primer, in factory loads they're quite rare but you can almost guarantee it will happen when hunting. Can happen with handloads too if you touch the primers with a little bit of oil on your fingers. If it had of been a light powder charge it still would of went bang but either dribbled out of the barrel or got stuck half way.

The terminal ballistics are interesting tho, did you recover the expanded round by any chance? was there any shrapnel in the wound channel? What caliber and load are you using? Something sounds wrong, If there was no exit it means the bullet come apart in the body which pretty much always = massive truma or in the case of a very under powered load you should have found an intact bullet somewhere while you were gutting it (and at 220y chances are you'd completely miss what you were aiming at). Sounds like the round has slipped through like a FMJ or Lapua Scenar, maybe it deflected and exited further down the body? but it's hard to miss an exit wound once you've skinned it.

Thinking back on it, I did recover the many pieces of the jacket and a few chunks of lead that barely nipped the lungs, but there was very little trauma. You had the typical "mush" as I call it when you shoot a deer in the boiler room. Nothing passed through the diaphram so I know that the bullet did not pull a wobbly on me. I threw the pieces away, but most of them were very small. Think of them like metal filings. On the inside of the entry wound, you could actually see a broken rib or two, but the wound was in-between the ribs.

The first deer I got that day was with my friends national match M1A chambered in .308. The second deer I got was with my .338 win mag (model 70 ftw!) (yeah I know it's over kill, bite me). The .338 win mag did fine. I took a 400 yard shot from prone and the deer droped on sight. That bullet made the deers vital organs jello.


The reason I'm asking is because I have heard rumors that Winchester factory ammo has gotten shitty, and I was using Winchester factory loads in the M1A.

This is the exact load I was using in the .308:

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=SBST308&cart=MzA4IFdpbmNoZXN0ZXI=&bn=5&type=13

I honest think that load is a bunch of hype. Tell me what their "supreme" bullet does that a standard Nosler Ballistic Tip won't do.

Would a picture of the does head help anyone to figure out what went wrong or what went very right?

Would a picture of the does head help anyone to figure out what went wrong or what went very right?
Regardless, you should definitely post it. A hunting thread isn't complete without hunting pictures! :cool:

The second deer I got was with my .338 win mag (model 70 ftw!) (yeah I know it's over kill, bite me).
No such thing as "over kill" it's dead or it aint....*Thinks back to possum vs 510gr .458 win mag* :D .

The reason I'm asking is because I have heard rumors that Winchester factory ammo has gotten shitty, and I was using Winchester factory loads in the M1A.

This is the exact load I was using in the .308:

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=SBST308&cart=MzA4IFdpbmNoZXN0ZXI=&bn=5&type=13

I honest think that load is a bunch of hype. Tell me what their "supreme" bullet does that a standard Nosler Ballistic Tip won't do.

Would a picture of the does head help anyone to figure out what went wrong or what went very right?

Dunno about the factory ammo since i only really use handloads, But yeah it's just a nosler loaded into a shinny case with an evil black coating, I still have a box of 168gr BST's but never used them on game since they only shot into 1.5moa from my savage. Pics probably wont help but you should definatly post them ;) .

Might be worth while shooting one or two into a box of wet newspaper, you might be able to work out from that weather it was a faulty projectile or it's just what they do, in which case it might be time to switch brands or invest in a press and dies.

*Thinks back to possum vs 510gr .458 win mag*
::thinks back to groundhog vs. .25-06::

Thinking back on it, I did recover the many pieces of the jacket and a few chunks of lead that barely nipped the lungs, but there was very little trauma. You had the typical "mush" as I call it when you shoot a deer in the boiler room. Nothing passed through the diaphram so I know that the bullet did not pull a wobbly on me. I threw the pieces away, but most of them were very small. Think of them like metal filings. On the inside of the entry wound, you could actually see a broken rib or two, but the wound was in-between the ribs.

Finding pieces of bullet sounds like the bullet fragmented inside(and high velocity rifle rounds tend to do that, it's not uncommon) hence why no exit wound so that bit is explained. Finding the jacket means at the very least you had a jacket/core separation(which usually leads to further fragment of the core). As for the small exit wound, probably just the flesh closing back up to a smaller than projectile size as said, it's really not that large of a differance. Sounds to me like everything went as it should as far as effective for killing terminal ballistics unless you didn't want to be picking bits of lead out of your meat and thus didn't want the bullet to actually fragment but just expand.

aye but with fragmentation like that it's notmal to see some pretty extreme damage, like heart and lungs turned to goop, this sounds like the internal damage was quite minor which is strange when 150gr of metal had disintergrated like that

I had a muzzleloader bullet do the same type of thing. Entry hole looked small for a .38cal projectile and not the organ damage I expected. Bits and pieces of copper and lead scattered throughout the chest cavity and no exit. I didn't over analyze it because dead is dead, just chalked it up to a pistol bullet going way faster than intended. But I don't use that bullet anymore.

In your case I would say jacket separation, but I believe those are supposed to be a bonded jacket. If they are bonded I would call it bullet failure, but still dead is dead. It stil performed its intended purpose. I would be pretty leery of using any more from that batch for hunting purposes. It may not have got the job done if you hit shoulder or leg bone.

Oh yeah congrats on putting some meat in the freezer. You rifle hunters have it easy. I'm so far still skunked bow hunting. I'll be pissed if I don't kill one till shotgun season

I had a muzzleloader bullet do the same type of thing. Entry hole looked small for a .38cal projectile and not the organ damage I expected. Bits and pieces of copper and lead scattered throughout the chest cavity and no exit. I didn't over analyze it because dead is dead, just chalked it up to a pistol bullet going way faster than intended. But I don't use that bullet anymore.

In your case I would say jacket separation, but I believe those are supposed to be a bonded jacket. If they are bonded I would call it bullet failure, but still dead is dead. It stil performed its intended purpose. I would be pretty leery of using any more from that batch for hunting purposes. It may not have got the job done if you hit shoulder or leg bone.

Oh yeah congrats on putting some meat in the freezer. You rifle hunters have it easy. I'm so far still skunked bow hunting. I'll be pissed if I don't kill one till shotgun season

Yeah man, I cooked some chili up tonight with that meat. I'm no longer a hungry college student. :D

The processor told me he didn't find anything, so this is just going to remain a "What happened there" shot.

Groundhog, I'll give you the biggest secret of bowhunting.

Keep your cool.

There are so many deer that just need to move in another ten yards and I could nail them. You'll get one. Even if it is a doe, not very many hunters can say "Yeah I'm good enough to get within 40 yards of a deer and shoot it with my bow."

It just takes time. Do you mind telling me your exact set up? You have taken wind direction, sun direction, food sources, waterholes, and bedding areas into consideration right?