Like there are many kinds of christians, there are also many kinds of atheists. As not only an atheist but also a "believer" in the nurture side of the nature/nurture debate, this (imo - don't really need to type that.. I can not be objective, no one possibly can..) is all because of childhood "indoctrination". Baptisms or other rituals performed on young children/ even babies, "brand" the child as christian or jewish or whatever and this is simply not possible.. You can't speak of a christian child, he/she does not have all the faculties yet to choose/decide for themselves.

I'm from the "bible-belt" of the Netherlands and I was raised to be a christian. Naturally having somewhat of a rebellious adolescense I claimed to be an atheist, not because I didn't believe in god (which I didn't) but more so for shock value. After a few years I calmed down a bit and still a fervent non-believer, but I had more respect for christians and the way they live their lives. Now - again a few years later - I've not lost respect for people of any kind, but I've lost all respect for religious belief uberhaupt. I used to think that allthough it not being my personal cup of tea, many people draw strenght from their faith. And I thought that christian morality couldn't hurt the world nor people.. I've now changed my mind on that point. Religious belief is bad for people in any shape or form. It actively discourages individual, critical thinking. Many people simply keep accepting what they've been told as children, and live their lives accordingly. Scientist cannot disprove the existence of god, but we can think about it.. talk about it.. be critical. And anyone open to it will come to the same conclusion.. The idea of a personal god - one so allpowerfull that he can hear our every thought - is highly improbable. And just such a manifestation of early western arrogance its appaling.. At least earlier civilisations had some romance to it.. Explaining nature through polytheism. Many people no longer believe in more than 1 god - atheists just go 1 further..

And on morality.. I said before that I saw a use for christian morality in the world, but not for the cost thereof.. Also I really don't believe christian morality has any more to offer us than natural morality. You even see it in many types of primates.. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.. Its just a facet of natural morality but its universal and inherent to our species as well.. Christian morality is hard enough to decipher anyway, apparently slavery is acceptable, homosexuality of course not, and if you're wife isn't a virgin for the wedding night she should be stoned in front of her parents house.. All really dated thought on morality, but as a christian would say, it is indeed old testament material - and I do agree, the old testament god really is one of the most dispicable, disgusting, hatefull miscreants in all of fiction.. But the new testament including Jesus himself doesn't really offer a higher moral ground that would be fully acceptable for us today either. Just 5 of the 10 commandmends have to do with morality the others are just the early western arrogance projected back on the god they invented.. Usefully of course.. It reminds me of a quote I'll paraphrase, don't know it exactly in English: "religion is a lifestyle for the sheeplike masses, rediculous to the intellectuals and usefull to those in power.".

And also for the sceptics.. Evolution is a fact, natural selection is a fact, social darwinism is a (deplorable) fact.. I've always liked the quote: "the funniest evidence for evolution is that religion evolves.."

cheers,
Mental

ok so is it me or does the title say religious belief is bad for people?

You have got some fucking nerve, only atheists and Christians weer mentioned. NOW i realize this may well be the extent of your religious experience, however it just makes you look immature ( like someone who does not have the developed facets to comprehend religion) to speak against all religion but only outline the issue on te basis of Athiesm and Christianity.

your saying Christianity is bad for people; very well ,say it all you want: BUT DONT think that Christianity is synonymous with all religions.

My eyes, they burn!! Please space your paragraphs, thank you.

ok so is it me or does the title say religious belief is bad for people?
Your saying Christianity is bad for people; very well ,say it all you want: BUT DONT think that Christianity is synonymous with all religions.
Maybe I need to further nuance the kind of religious belief I was referring to. I definately don't think christianity is the same as any other religion, but the kinds of religions and religious beliefs I was referring to are based on faith in god/allah/jahweh/a supernatural creator of heaven and earth/intelligent design.. And I don't want to call all these different religions (islam christianity judaism aso) the same either, they just share some aspects. And I believe that the arguments I originally posted are applicable to most/all of the above mentioned religions/forms of religious belief.

cheers,
Mental

Dont take away their mental crutches.

They'll fall over.

Maybe I need to further nuance the kind of religious belief I was referring to. I definately don't think christianity is the same as any other religion, but the kinds of religions and religious beliefs I was referring to are based on faith in god/allah/jahweh/a supernatural creator of heaven and earth/intelligent design.. And I don't want to call all these different religions (islam christianity judaism aso) the same either, they just share some aspects. And I believe that the arguments I originally posted are applicable to most/all of the above mentioned religions/forms of religious belief.

cheers,
Mental

monothiestic?

choose your words wiseley, otherwise the people debating your argument wil fuck you over.

if you mean monothiesm then say it otherwise you will get dickheads like me picking apart your words.

And if it is only this aspect then please stress it,

When u didnt specify monothiesm as the aspect you might have known what aspect you were talkign about, but i didnt hence i thought you were attacking all religions.

religion is not bad for people. people are bad for people.

for some folks religion acts as a necessary aid in helping them navigate through their days. are you so mighty as to look down your nose upon them?

personally i am not a religious man. but i see the benefits of faith in peoples lives everyday.