this is an issue concerning a shitload of your life and happiness.

most jobs are utter bullshit which produce useless commodities

i don't want to be a slave to the machine, and neither do you. we don't want full employment, we want full lives.

why do the people doing important jobs get paid shit? like farmers.

we need to revolutionize our system of work. with the technology we have today, we could work MUCH less than we do. so why the hell are the vast majority of us stuck doing stupid jobs, for low wage?

and i know there are many ways to get out of this, but i want EVERYONE to be able to not be a wage labor slave

give me the idea or help me form it and i will lead the revolution.

Workers should control the means of production etc etc.

Create robots capable of doing any menial task and give people unemployed because of these robots $50,000 a year, legalizing all drugs while you're at it. Initially, the bulk of these people will do nothing but do drugs, perform sexual acrobatics, maybe even watch tv/movies all day. It'll be like opulent welfare, only without cops and social stigma there will be nothing to revel in. After a while suicides will peak, and most people will be fed up with such a meaningless existence. There will be an explosion in arts and creativity. No longer constrained by collecting meaningless talking points like net worth and what car they can afford, people will read more books, have an interest in science, increased enrollment in education in everything from quantum physics to krav maga.

/thought.

That's a great idea but its something that isn't physically feasible in this time. Your trying to reach a goal that's too far down the road. Think small and work with that. You'd be foolish to believe a revolution is the best approach in reaching that point. It's possible to reach that point by means of revolution but its very risky and going at that approach could work but it could also end miserably, with your own life at stake. It's better to work with the system and evolutionize it. I suspect you watched Zeitgeist and now your in this immense state of disillusionment because you've finally watched your own life vicariously and realized what this system really is. I kind of feel the same way except I'm going to try and take a more feasible approach. For one thing I'm reading up on the Federal Constitution and I'm currently studying my State Constitution. At some point in the not too distant future I'm going to try and start a Campaign for Liberty club on my campus and try and get some momentum working. This is the perfect time to start because I'm willing to bet in the next couple of years people are going to once again be dissapointed and will begin to seek new and alternative political parties. This is where Ron Paul could potentially gain more momentum. So that's why I want to start now, learn as much as I can about state and local politics and attempt to get some congressmen who share the same idea's elected. I don't know much so far because I've been looking at this on a National level but apparently from other people who have done this claim that it's a lot easier to do it than most people think. No one really pays attention to local politics so you really only need a few votes to get them elected. Anyway that's what I'm doing and I suggest if anyone wants real change they do the same thing rather than continue to rant on totse about things which could never be attained in this lifetime.

Sounds a lot like labour theory of value.

apparently from other people who have done this claim that it's a lot easier to do it than most people think. No one really pays attention to local politics so you really only need a few votes to get them elected. Anyway that's what I'm doing and I suggest if anyone..

I'm thinking of that too. Also that's why if I do anything as a politics-related job I'm running as a State Senator or Representative. Easier to be elected as an independent or third party candidate, able to organize viaindymedia and whatnot, etc.

This is where Ron Paul could potentially gain more momentum.

Everyone thinks ron paul is the man that could bring positive change. You don't need ron paul to end the federal reserve, inform everyone about what it is and everyone will want to get rid of it. You don't need ron paul for things like social liberties(I'm ignoring the fact that he thinks the state should decide whether abortion is legal or not and pretend he wants to defend ALL rights with the same vigor he defends gun rights) Everything else ron paul stands for pretty much benefits people other than the bulk of his supporters. Flat tax is the poor subsidizing the rich(If the poor get less benefits from a complex society then they should pay a lower tax rate. A flat tax hampers climbing up the social ladder). Deregulation is the poor handing power to the rich(on the ridiculous notion that an informed public will simply boycott any "bad" company into compliance. Privatization at the level he condones provides a profit incentive over social incentive for doing good(example: the defense industry that is now bigger than hollywood or the music industry profits from public fear, and a private contractor torturing a detainee does it for the sake of his next contract, not for national security and this happens every day now). There's also a thread dedicated to why the gold standard sucks.

Everyone thinks ron paul is the man that could bring positive change.

he is one of many people who has the potential. Kucinich didn't get much progress, remember that. The main point of the idea of ron paul would be to being in new ideas and help to oppose the two-party system. I don't agree with everything but he will help to bring in new change and freedom.

You don't need ron paul to end the federal reserve, inform everyone about what it is and everyone will want to get rid of it.

hasn't helped the 9/11 truth movement. 1/3 of America has doubts with the official 9/11 story and there isn't too much change in congress. Million want Bush Impeached but Kucinich's bill didn't go too far IIRC


You don't need ron paul for things like social liberties(I'm ignoring the fact that he thinks the state should decide whether abortion is legal or not and pretend he wants to defend ALL rights with the same vigor he defends gun rights)

I actually think he would defend all rights with the same vigor. I don't agree with his opinion regarding abortion but eh. He wants to bring things down to the states. Yes that means the state government can (and it has, I'm aware of it) screw you over. it makes it easier for social change, decriminalization, etc to pass and not piss off half the nation though. Feel bad for when it comes to rights and freedom that the majority would fuck over the fringe in those "red" states and all however. It would be good for places like the NorthWest USA and Mid-Atlantic, as well as the West Coast.


Everything else ron paul stands for pretty much benefits people other than the bulk of his supporters.

A lot of it does. but he wouldn't be able to pass all of it. congress wouldn't let him. he has some good ideas that would at least be spread. He is close to the 9/11 truth movement and all..

Create robots capable of doing any menial task and give people unemployed because of these robots $50,000 a year, legalizing all drugs while you're at it. Initially, the bulk of these people will do nothing but do drugs, perform sexual acrobatics, maybe even watch tv/movies all day. It'll be like opulent welfare, only without cops and social stigma there will be nothing to revel in. After a while suicides will peak, and most people will be fed up with such a meaningless existence. There will be an explosion in arts and creativity. No longer constrained by collecting meaningless talking points like net worth and what car they can afford, people will read more books, have an interest in science, increased enrollment in education in everything from quantum physics to krav maga.

/thought.

I would love to stay at home doing hobbies all the time.

I agree with Warsie 100%, which is a first with anyone on this forum. Of course Ron Paul doesn't have the right answers for everything, but what politician does? And anyone who believes a Politician will do everything he says he'll do is living in a dream world. Even Obama won't accomplish everything he says he wants to but the reason why people elected him was because they believe he will at least point us in the right direction so the next president and the one after that can continue the momentum. That's how I feel about Ron Paul. I don't like his isolationist policy and I certainly don't agree with complete open market but he's never going to get it to that, however, he can at least bring us into the direction of limited government intervention and a semi free market economy. One of the most important things that I stand for which Paul does as well is bring the power back to the states. There's a reason why our founding fathers devised a state and federal system....FOR SOCIAL AND POLITICAL MOBILITY! Think about how much easier it would be to get your voice out on a local level than it would be on a national level. If power is equally distributed to each state not only will the reinforce the balance of power but it will give people a choice. Say you live in a state that has complete legalization of weed but you detest weed to the point where its intolorable to live with a bunch of stoners. Because States have the power to legalize it or illegalize it you can chose to stay in that state or move to a more conservative state. And furthermore, if you don't agree with something in your own state it's much easier to change it than it would be to raise to the ranks of a Federal Congressmen and try and change it that way. Come on guys! The Federal Government needs to be checked but if we lend all of our power to it then it would be impossible. It's like shooting fish in a barrel for them.

this is an issue concerning a shitload of your life and happiness.

most jobs are utter bullshit which produce useless commodities

i don't want to be a slave to the machine, and neither do you. we don't want full employment, we want full lives.

why do the people doing important jobs get paid shit? like farmers.

we need to revolutionize our system of work. with the technology we have today, we could work MUCH less than we do. so why the hell are the vast majority of us stuck doing stupid jobs, for low wage?

and i know there are many ways to get out of this, but i want EVERYONE to be able to not be a wage labor slave

give me the idea or help me form it and i will lead the revolution.

That's impossible in a capitalist system.

Farmers get paid shit because anyone can do it (theoretically), it doesn't require much education. Capitalism is based on supply and demand, not just goods but services as well. There are a shit ton of farmers in the USA, arguably more than most developed countries. Farmer's income is based on the value of the goods they can sell; sorry to say but if you try to sell corn for $5 an ear, you won't sell shit because other farmers are selling for 10 cents a pop.

This is not just the case with lower-skilled jobs; many mechanical engineers don't get paid much with just their MechEng degree because of the sheer number of people out there for companies to hire. Same with schoolteachers.

It's just the way it is (for now).

That's impossible in a capitalist system.

Farmers get paid shit because anyone can do it (theoretically), it doesn't require much education. Capitalism is based on supply and demand, not just goods but services as well. There are a shit ton of farmers in the USA, arguably more than most developed countries. Farmer's income is based on the value of the goods they can sell; sorry to say but if you try to sell corn for $5 an ear, you won't sell shit because other farmers are selling for 10 cents a pop.

This is not just the case with lower-skilled jobs; many mechanical engineers don't get paid much with just their MechEng degree because of the sheer number of people out there for companies to hire. Same with schoolteachers.

It's just the way it is (for now).

To do it well you need to be rather knowledgible. It's not exactly something that requires you to be on par with rocket scientists, but you have to know an assload of stuff (even esoteric knowledge like dowsing and moon phases) to get your crops to grow well and consistently.

Workers should not control the means of production. Workers are stupid little assholes. The government should control the means of production in favor of the workers. Right now we have many "elites", people who control the country (and earn lots of money). Almost all of these are democratically elected, and thus vote in the interest of the workers. Except for one "elite", the economical elite (Bill Gates for example). Abolish them. Large coorporations should be controlled by the government which favors the workers. Ever heard of how well Ford workers were paid in the twenties and thirties? That's because Mr. Ford was a national socialist and thus actually valued the workers that made his company possible, taking less money for himself instead.

The economical elite is the most powerful and the largest elite in most any countries, especially the USA. Combined, the economical elite in the USA has many many times the power the president has. The economical elite only has one interest, thats making more capital. The economical elite uses phony money systems such as the "stock market" and "usury" to magically turn money into more money becoming more powerful. Ban the stock market. Ban usury. And you'll soon see the economical elite collapse. Only WORKING produces wealth, lending money and selling stocks only gives the false impression of wealth which is the number one reason class differences. In reality we don't need communism or socialism, we can still have free trade. But never, never, should one be able to own something he didn't produce with his own hands.

Ever hear of this magical thing called supply and demand?

Ever hear of this magical thing called supply and demand?

Supply and demand are fictional. Even though the demand is ten times higher, doesn't mean its actual production value is ten times higher. Thus by playing this fictional system, the rich can invest lots of money and become ten times richer. There is no ethics that say he who invests in an item that becomes ten times higher in demand within the year deserves ten times what he paid for it.

Greasing the gears of capitilism....

Get on top or get stepped on.