I drive(drove) a 1980 Pontiac Firebird. This car lasted me quite some time now. So the other day on my hour long journey home from work my car started making a ticking noise. I was pretty worried that I wasn't going to make it home as it's a fairly rural road with no service stations around. I ended up driving to the walmart into the next town over and checked my oil. I put about a quarter of a quart of oil (all it would take) and some ring re-conditioner in. I started it up and still made the noise. Sounded like a Diesel engine. I was freaking out. Drove the whole way home around 45-50mph at the most. I got home and let it sit over night. Next day I take it over to the mechanic and he has me start it up. He told me to kill it. When I asked what it was he told me I didn't want to know what it was.

It was a rod knock, just like I'd expected. I asked him what if I put in a new motor. He told me good luck as the 231 is a harder engine to find and that if I put a v8 into it, It'd rip the rear axle out the first time I laid into it. The rear frame rails are starting to rust and the right side is pretty much shot. I told my uncle about it and he said that it's no big deal. I wasn't quite sure what he was talking about, because I was pretty devastated. My first and only car has officially shit the bed.

My uncle is a bigger firebird fanatic than I am. He has 3 1/2 Trans Ams. He told me to take a week off of work next month and to tow my old firebird up to where he lives. He said that we'll gut the interior and wheels and a few other things from my car and put together one of his firebirds for me. Few questions though. Which front end do you prefer? The 77-78 or the 79-81? we're not going for an accurate car, just one that looks good, so we can mix and match years. Ok, another option is the motor. He's got a Pontiac 301 sitting in his garage and a Pontiac 400 sitting in another car. The choice is mine, which ever one I want. Which do you think would be better? I was leaning more towards the 301 because of handling to weight issues, but a guy I work with was telling me about a firebird he had with a 400 in it and it handled like a dream. Gas isn't an issue as this wont be an all the time car, more so just a cruiser or night out car.

What other things would you do to this car if you were in this situation?

I know how you feel, but it's just an old V6 firebird man. Go the 400 route. Work the engine a little since you're doing it.... you don't have to build it up especially but make sure it's in good shape at least. Pop some headers and exhaust on it. Maybe some aftermarket pulleys, you know.... small stuff. Make sure the tranny is good and put a rear end in while you're doing the car. I wouldn't honestly go super high with the diff gears but try to pick a ratio that gives good acceleration but can still cruise 70mph without revving dumb high. I prefer the older front ends.

Now whereas an '80 V6 firebird makes me sad, a nice 6.6L worked one makes me smile.

I know how you feel, but it's just an old V6 firebird man. Go the 400 route. Work the engine a little since you're doing it.... you don't have to build it up especially but make sure it's in good shape at least. Pop some headers and exhaust on it. Maybe some aftermarket pulleys, you know.... small stuff. Make sure the tranny is good and put a rear end in while you're doing the car. I wouldn't honestly go super high with the diff gears but try to pick a ratio that gives good acceleration but can still cruise 70mph without revving dumb high. I prefer the older front ends.

Now whereas an '80 V6 firebird makes me sad, a nice 6.6L worked one makes me smile.

well, the v6 is probably going to get scrapped. or sold to a serious restorer for cheap. that car needs a shit ton of work. That motor used to be a stump puller at low rpms. 115hp at 3800 rpms. I'm most definitely taking the carburetor as it's basically brand new. only been on the car roughly 2 months. I'm pretty sure the car he's giving me is his 78 T/A. Most of it is in great shape, just needs a motor right now. That and a rear brake line. 4 wheel disc brakes. can't go wrong there. He said that if I liked the 80 front end that we could put that on there, but I'll probably go with the 78 front end.

That motor used to be a stump puller at low rpms. 115hp at 3800 rpms.

what?? :eek:

I assume that's a mistake.

The 301 is kind of a POS, it won't save enough weight to be worth the lack of power.

what?? :eek:

I assume that's a mistake.

which part? It was a 231 Buick. Some people put them into CJ-5s. the 1980 231 in the Firebird was rated at 115hp at 3800rpms and 188 ft/lbs of torque at 2000rpms. Pretty shitty, I know but it got the job done, until it started with the whole rod knock thing.

Yeah early 80's + 'economy version' V6 = Restricted, crappy 115 hp engine (188ftlbs isn't 'horrible', it's just not a lot). So sad. Built right and tuned it could have more power/torque... but the engine is bleh anyway so why waste the effort/money?

Best wishes with the new T/A. If the V6 pulled your stumps to satisfaction you will have a field day in the big V8.

which part? It was a 231 Buick. Some people put them into CJ-5s. the 1980 231 in the Firebird was rated at 115hp at 3800rpms and 188 ft/lbs of torque at 2000rpms. Pretty shitty, I know but it got the job done, until it started with the whole rod knock thing.

The torque is much more believable... but 3800 rpm? Holy shit, diesels rev higher than that. Somewhere in my brain were the figures for these old war-horse motors, but it's good that you've got family there to take car of you, because a Firebird with such a tiny amount of power... yeah, get the big block.

So what we're going to do is take his 81 Trans Am and we're going to put the 301 in into it once we paint the block and all that jazz. He said we're going to do this proper. The 301 needs a carb, and he says that we should be able to use the carb from my current car since the 301 used a 2bbl, too. We've got 3 hood choices. Either the 80-81 turbo hood, a shaker hood or the formula hood with the 2 scoops. I'm leaning more towards the Shaker hood, as my car didn't have one and I've always loved them. The rear end will have to be worked over, too. When my uncle bought this car roughly 10 years ago, the guy who had it before re-did the tail lights. He pulled the old lights and put sheet metal over it and then put in circle tail lights like the corvette. It was done professionally, and it looks decent, but I prefer the Trans Am lights. especially the smoked ones.

As for the 400. It's basically brand new as everything was just put on it, but the guy he bought it off of didn't paint it or clean it up right and it looks like shit. We're going to start disassembling it and painting it and I'll either take that motor home with me, or I'll leave it up there for when I need/want a little more power. The 301 is basically a new motor. Came out of a wrecked, Granny owned, Bonneville. The car was pretty well taken care of until someone stole it and wrecked it into a power pole. Only 31,000 miles on it. My uncle originally bought it to build up as a 301 turbo motor, but doesn't have the time with all of his other projects. We're just going to put it into my new car.

So basically I'm going to have a 1981 Trans Am with a Pontiac 301, shaker hood, 3.73 positrac rear end and the interior of an 80 firebird Esprit. That is unless you guys have any awesome ideas. I'm Going up from Ohio to Michigan on roughly the 8th or 9th of next month and we're going to take about a week to do it. Any more suggestions?

Take pics

Take pics

Of which one? I've got a few of my old firebird on my laptop at home. I can post pictures of the new one when I go up.

ABnSW, are you getting rid of your old Firebird? And getting a completely new one?

If you are, where do you live? I'm looking for a new project.

Well I'm sorry to hear you're going with the 301... although it IS a block with potential, it is otherwise nothing special. Expect 140-150hp depending on the carburetor, obviously more with other parts and exhaust work. If it is the 81' engine, it should make 160+ stock. It is more of a torque engine and should provide ~230-250ftlbs. You'll have fun with that.

The only thing I can say is, since you're building it anyways...and the motor is fresh.... and you have help (and hopefully some money).... TURBO. The block itself is suitable for turbo and there was a factory turbo version made. With a basic setup and low boost, you'll see 200+hp and a hefty 350+ftlbs. This setup would be ALL you'd need, and it'd be very sexy. It would also be making BETTER numbers than the stock 400, so you wouldn't need the extra 100 cubes. Plus, in the future you could work it more and have a 300+hp 500ftlbs Monstrosity if so desired.

Mmmm.... 301 Turbo T/A with 3.73 posi........ drool

ABnSW, are you getting rid of your old Firebird? And getting a completely new one?

If you are, where do you live? I'm looking for a new project.

Yes. I'm getting rid of it. It's most definitely a project. The rear frame is all rusted out. I live in ohio, but I'm towing the car to Michigan and my dad will be driving the tow vehicle back, and in about a week I'll be driving the new firebird home and we're either scrapping the firebird as we are gutting the interior and other parts, or we'll sell it for cheap. If you're interested in it, I'd probably sell it for about $300 but that'd be negotiable.

Well I'm sorry to hear you're going with the 301... although it IS a block with potential, it is otherwise nothing special. Expect 140-150hp depending on the carburetor, obviously more with other parts and exhaust work. If it is the 81' engine, it should make 160+ stock. It is more of a torque engine and should provide ~230-250ftlbs. You'll have fun with that.

The only thing I can say is, since you're building it anyways...and the motor is fresh.... and you have help (and hopefully some money).... TURBO. The block itself is suitable for turbo and there was a factory turbo version made. With a basic setup and low boost, you'll see 200+hp and a hefty 350+ftlbs. This setup would be ALL you'd need, and it'd be very sexy. It would also be making BETTER numbers than the stock 400, so you wouldn't need the extra 100 cubes. Plus, in the future you could work it more and have a 300+hp 500ftlbs Monstrosity if so desired.

Mmmm.... 301 Turbo T/A with 3.73 posi........ drool

I'll have roughly $500-650 to rent a tow dolly, gas up, and gas back. I figure with current gas prices that'll leave me about $250-300 to do things to the motor and buy other unforeseen things. I'm not sure if my uncle has the internals to build it up for a turbo or not. If he does, Would I be able to put the stronger internals for a turbo in it, and drive like that for a few months until I could afford a turbo kit? Also, with a turbo kit, would I be able to use the shaker hood or would I have to go with the turbo hood? I really like the shaker hood. lol.