I am not very well versed when it comes to cars and there seem to be some pretty car smart people in this forum. You've all heard the phrases "FORD= fucked over rebuilt dodge" "Ford= found on road dead" yada yada yada. So what is it? Dodge, Ford, GMC, Chevy? Who makes the best car who makes the best truck?

Edit- I should've specified. From about 1950-1998ish who made the best? For the last 10 years who has been making the best? And I'm not talking about the appeal of their cars, I'm talking about the quality of the cars. Which ones last the longest, which ones require the least amount of repairs etc. I'm not car smart at all but I can tell which cars are at least cool looking.

EDIT:: okay just to get more answers i am aiming at, here's a scenario. let's say you had a decent amount of money (not enough for a viper or extreme/exotic domestic like that but good money $30-50k). what DOMESTIC car would you purchase if you could NEVER purchase another domestic car. it is going to have to be the car you drive for the rest of your life. don't consider gas in your decision, lets just say gas is paid off for life or something haha but DO consider repair costs and other aspects. what car do you purchase and why?

Chevy. Chevy Chevy Chevy Chevy Chevy

Chevy small block. All the way.

Most of the cars GMC makes are crap and so are are Ford's. Ford doesn't even have anything good right now, all they have is the mustang, and that is just a marketing icon, it's not any good.

Chevy has the 'Vette, and even though that's also a marketing icon to middle aged women and men, it's at least a good car.

I don't know much about dodge though, ask someone else.

There is nothing that a domestic manufacturer makes (except for trucks, fuck trucks) that can't be found at the same price or for a few thousand more with 5x better build quality from a European manufacturer.

There is nothing that a domestic manufacturer makes (except for trucks, fuck trucks) that can't be found at the same price or for a few thousand more with 5x better build quality from a European manufacturer.

Yeah i understand the Euro/Japanese aspect of it but I am asking if none of those existed, purely between domestic cars.

There is nothing that a domestic manufacturer makes (except for trucks, fuck trucks) that can't be found at the same price or for a few thousand more with 5x better build quality from a European manufacturer.

And 5 times more boringness, being european.

Not including supercars (GT40, ZR1, etc), the highest quality cars in the USA right now are imports from foreign companies* or overseas subsidarys**. Cadillac are the pretty much the best exception I can think of, and I would bet their CTS-V is the highest quality domestic in America too.

*Honda for instance.

**A few examples of this is Ford's Euro models are its best quality vehicles as far as I'm aware, GM's got Saturn which is mostly Opel stuff (ironic, as Opel is a budget brand in Germany), and of course the Pontiac G8 GT is from Australia.

Cowboy of the Apocolypse I reckon has it right, though it may not exactly be what the OP was asking about, as these cars aren't American.

And 5 times more boringness, being european.

I just choked on my own laughter.

This is interesting because American cars have always been desperately boring. They've all been oversized, many of them horribly ugly and the ones that aren't ugly are bland. They've all had similar engines and all the american cars released I can only think of TWO that aren't basically-designed front engined cars.

I know you were responding to what you feel is us euro-snobs, but your theory here falls flat on its face. For every one American-made car I can think of 10 that are far more interesting and definitely not "boring" by any standard. And don't think I won't stick to my claim.

The OP selected a very difficult timespan, as things have changed back and forth all throught those years, companies have come and gone as has the mojo of others. There are a number of distinct periods within the 1950-1998 timespan, and it is for the simple reason that this would all be far too complicated that I chose to speak about current cars only.

As a (very) generalised rule, most American cars prior to the mid to late 70's were fantastic, while nearly everything from then on till the late 90's is trash. This definition is very vague, because as I said there are heaps of different periods, and everything is filled with exceptions.

1966 Lincoln Continental Convertible :mad::mad::mad:

The Dodge Choaga.

As a (very) generalised rule, most American cars prior to the mid to late 70's were fantastic, while nearly everything from then on till the late 90's is trash. This definition is very vague, because as I said there are heaps of different periods, and everything is filled with exceptions.

Which is quite ironic considering the logic to determine who's car's dick is bigger is left mostly to vague definitions and unsubstantiated generalizations.

2008 vehicles J.D. Power ratings
Honda Accord (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=18&modelid=212&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
Toyota Camry (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=47&modelid=424&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
Toyota Corolla (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=47&modelid=426&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
2007 Mercesed C-Class (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=31&modelid=285&year=2007&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
BMW 335 (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=5&modelid=8491&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
Cadillac CTS (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=8&modelid=6128&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
Chevrolet Malibu (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=9&modelid=92&year=2008&myid=9688&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)

For low-end passenger autos GM does very well against German cars, and is inarguably better than the Corolla and is on par for the most part with the Civic. What's all this about American cars being crap, again?

Which is quite ironic considering the logic to determine who's car's dick is bigger is left mostly to vague definitions and unsubstantiated generalizations.

2008 vehicles J.D. Power ratings
Honda Accord (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=18&modelid=212&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
Toyota Camry (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=47&modelid=424&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
Toyota Corolla (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=47&modelid=426&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
2007 Mercesed C-Class (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=31&modelid=285&year=2007&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
BMW 335 (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=5&modelid=8491&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
Cadillac CTS (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=8&modelid=6128&year=2008&myid=&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)
Chevrolet Malibu (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?makeid=9&modelid=92&year=2008&myid=9688&mode=&crpPage=jdpower.jsp&section=jdpower&aff=national)

For low-end passenger autos GM does very well against German cars, and is inarguably better than the Corolla and is on par for the most part with the Civic. What's all this about American cars being crap, again?

I think I'll place my own experiences and those of engineers over those of the masses. The median IQ is around 100. I don't know about you, but I could give a fuck how many double digit IQ Camry drivers think their car is the best thing since sex.

Argon, what the fuck are you talking about man? Quality is one area of a vehicle that is objective, not subjective, and therefore can be judged fairly accurately. Sales figures do not indicate the quality of a car at all. They indicate quantity sold, but nothing at all do do with the level of designed and build a car has. Additionally, your mother's right - quality > quantity.

Care to point out the irony? (I genuinely can't see it)


I could give a fuck how many double digit IQ Camry drivers think their car is the best thing since sex.

Whutsauce.

Whutsauce.

Dialect motherfucker do you speak it?

Dialect motherfucker do you speak it?

More competantly than you do. That particular take on the phrase irritates me, and that's about the all of it.

More pro euro arrogant biassed bullshit

Whatever. Audi-boring bar the r8. Merc-boring bar the amg stuff. BMW-boring bar the m division.
I don't give a shit whether you can think of however many number of cars that are american that are boring. Clarkson described this issue perfectly when he tested the clubsport r8, by saying 'this kind of money [that gets you 6L v8, fun etc] buys you a 2-3L euro sedan [which is slow and boring as fuck]. Fun euro stuff just isn't as accessible as fun american stuff, end of story.

inb4 interior quality/pushrods/bad handling etc

inb4 interior quality/pushrods/bad handling etc

..And the number of times those points of argument have now been blown out of the water (for the most part) as myths, leaves you wondering what kind of person still perpetuates them.

More competantly than you do. That particular take on the phrase irritates me, and that's about the all of it.

The pulp fiction phrase or the could give a shit phrase? I know properly its "Couldn't give less of a shit" but in flawduh (ugh) its spoken the way I used it.

fact of thee matter is:

There are good and bad in all brands. You shouldn't ask to who makes the best, but which model has the best record. It is given that there is a major model change every 5 years, but what gets you down the road is the drive train (except anything with Lucas wiring ).
The other thing you have to consider is the more options and gadgets and electronics you put in a car, the more likely you will have something go wrong or out. Look at the history of the model you want. has it had a good run ? Not to knock anyone really but think about this.

Gm: chevette, monza, vega,
Ford: pinto, fiesta,
Chrysler: dart,

then there is

Gm: camaro, vette, cameo, de ville, bel air, impalla,
Ford: mustang, falcon, torino, cobra, skyliner, crestliner, victoria, model A, B, C, T, TT
Chrysler: charger, viper, daytona, cuda,



See the thing is, allot of what you judge a car on IS the motor. boss 302, 426 max wedge, 327, 427, 429, 510, nail head, flathead, hemi head. Seee?

And the best is how you take care of it when it is yours.

Whatever. Audi-boring bar the r8. Merc-boring bar the amg stuff. BMW-boring bar the m division.
I don't give a shit whether you can think of however many number of cars that are american that are boring. Clarkson described this issue perfectly when he tested the clubsport r8, by saying 'this kind of money [that gets you 6L v8, fun etc] buys you a 2-3L euro sedan [which is slow and boring as fuck]. Fun euro stuff just isn't as accessible as fun american stuff, end of story.

inb4 interior quality/pushrods/bad handling etc

S4, S6, RS4, RS6, A8, S8, S3, S5, 335i, 328i, 128i, 335i, M Roadster, X6, any 6-Series, SLK 200, SLK 280, SLK 350, SLK 55, S450, S550, S600, C350, C300

24 incredibly boring automobiles from three very boring manufacturers. I didn't include things like the A4, A6, A5, 325i, Cooper S and BMW motorcycles because 265 horsepower might be too boring for you.

Gm: camaro, vette, cameo, de ville, bel air, impalla,
Ford: mustang, falcon, torino, cobra, skyliner, crestliner, victoria, model A, B, C, T, TT
Chrysler: charger, viper, daytona, cuda,



Camaro, Vette yes please. De Ville, Bel Air, Impala, fuck that shit.
427 Cobra yes please. In fact, please sir, may I have some more? Fuck the rest of the lineup. Minus the Euro Mondeo. Sexy bitch she is.
Viper Cuda sure, in a batshit crazy sort of way. Charger? Too heavy. Daytona? Minus the wing and the nose, maybe.

BMW motorcycles because 265 horsepower might be too boring for you.

Love the humor, and the irony.

I have to whole heartedly agree. They dont call them the ultimate driving machine for kicks.
As for the bikes....its like...well...if you dont know, you probably wouldn't get it, but try riding one if you can afford it, and try not buying it, even sitting next to your favorite other bike, like for me would be can am.

Love the humor, and the irony.

I have to whole heartedly agree. They dont call them the ultimate driving machine for kicks.
As for the bikes....its like...well...if you dont know, you probably wouldn't get it, but try riding one if you can afford it, and try not buying it, even sitting next to your favorite other bike, like for me would be can am.

I can understand owning a can am but I never would. If i got to the point where I cant stand or cant physically ride on two wheels, I wont. It's like fitting a hemorrhoid donut in a Corvette, you know?

I hear ya.

Whatever. Audi-boring bar the r8. Merc-boring bar the amg stuff. BMW-boring bar the m division.
I don't give a shit whether you can think of however many number of cars that are american that are boring. Clarkson described this issue perfectly when he tested the clubsport r8, by saying 'this kind of money [that gets you 6L v8, fun etc] buys you a 2-3L euro sedan [which is slow and boring as fuck]. Fun euro stuff just isn't as accessible as fun american stuff, end of story.

inb4 interior quality/pushrods/bad handling etc

See, the thing is, I think what Clarkson was saying was that the same money buys you a 2-3L European car, said 2-3L European car usually produces around the same power as a 6 litre V8 American car, and to go with the steroetype, will usually be a lot better handling, better built etc. I mean shit, my 1.8 litre Rover is quicker to 60mph than a 4 litre V6 Mustang.

Take for instance that Dodge Charger SRT I drove. 6.1 litre hemi V8, 420bhp, good in a straight line, but abysmal handling. Around 5 seconds to 60 mph. £25,000 as a direct conversion, excluding import costs etc.

I could, and will if you want, name at least 5 European cars costing the same that have the same if not better performance figures, and will be a lot more fun.

I can also list many European cars when given the same sized engine that produce an astronomical amount of power.
Or even the same engine. The 8 litre Chrysler V10 in the Dodge Viper produces what, around 800bhp?
The 8 litre Chrysler V10 used in the Bristol Fighter produces 1012bhp. Hmmmmm.......

That went well off topic from the OP.

The 8 litre Chrysler V10 in the Dodge Viper produces what, around 800bhp?

Try 600

See, the thing is, I think what Clarkson was saying was that the same money buys you a 2-3L European car, said 2-3L European car usually produces around the same power as a 6 litre V8 American car, and to go with the steroetype, will usually be a lot better handling, better built etc. I mean shit, my 1.8 litre Rover is quicker to 60mph than a 4 litre V6 Mustang.


I actually wrote a bid response to this but it can really be summed up in noone will change township or sponsored's warped views on just how good euro stuff really is, and noone will change my views warped or not on why i'd prefer a cheap american car with no tech and a shit interior to the embodiment of beige in a car that is the same price euro stuff.

Edit: I should say I actually quite like tonnes of euro stuff like e type jags, ferrari 275, aston vantage, but I just can't see the attraction to the boring stuff people always bang on about. Yes this includes those '4 briggs n strattons welded together' things called vws.

Well yeah, but any basic economy car is boring, be it European, American, Australian, Japanese, Korean or whatever.

VW Polo: Boring.

Chevy Malibu : Boring.

Audi RS4: Exciting.

Chevrolet Corvette (if you get past the leaf springs): Exciting.

MasterYoda210, first you're judging cars based on Hp/l, and now you bring up that the Corvette has leaf springs?
Under which of the following is your abode? MunkeyQ:
http://www.onagakansas.org/stonebridge.jpghttp://www.geoscanners.com/images/rock_solid_solutions_small.jpg

Please, be quiet. What's next, pushrods are for tractors? For your own sake...




EDIT: Jaysus, I accidentally called you MunkeyQ. MunkeyQ wouldn't say such a thing!

Hmm I don't think I agree with that. There are a lot of economy cars that are also great fun

Mini
Renault 5
Pretty much any Fiat
Citroen C2
Ford Fiesta

Although these days people want power steering and air conditioning and HORRIBLE FEATHERLIGHT CONTROLS (pet peeve) at the expense of actual driving enjoyment

Munkey Q, first you're judging cars based on Hp/l, and now you bring up that the Corvette has leaf springs?

Under which of the following is your abode? MunkeyQ:
http://www.onagakansas.org/stonebridge.jpghttp://www.geoscanners.com/images/rock_solid_solutions_small.jpg

Please, be quiet. What's next, pushrods are for tractors? For your own sake...

You mean me?

I wasn't judging cars based on hp/l, I was debunking other arguments based on hp/l.

And I was saying, that even though it is leaf sprung, it is leaf sprung effectively and is a fun car.

Also, I live under a well engineered bridge. You know, one of them Victorian ones built in the 1860's and still have 100+ tonnes of freight train drive over them.

EDIT: also if they work, I'm not particularly arsed if a car has pushrods, leaf springs or wooden wheels, I was merely commenting on the fact that smaller engined European cars are usually priced around the same as larger engined American cars because they develop similar power.

Although these days people want power steering and air conditioning and HORRIBLE FEATHERLIGHT CONTROLS (pet peeve) at the expense of actual driving enjoyment

By the fucking oath sworn upon my name, I support your quest into the persecution of modern day ninnies so shallow as to force the coachbuilders of these once regal and yet robust horseless carriages to FUCK SHIT UP BY TAKING THE GODDAMN MOTHERLICKIN' ROAD FEEL OUTTA DRIVING. If some faggots wrists are too limp to steer a car without it being feather light, the cunt should go right ahead and fucking die before I find out where he lives. They couldn't even give less of a shit about actually enjoying driving cars, so to them: SHUT THE FUCK UP. You are outta-fucking-line!

People in general need to either grow a set or get back to the kitchen, not ruin our fun just because they've self appointed all their embodied whinging as 'civil rights' and 'entitled to make an opinion' bullshit.

Although these days people want power steering and air conditioning and HORRIBLE FEATHERLIGHT CONTROLS (pet peeve) at the expense of actual driving enjoyment

Got that right, I'll take my manual steering over modern power assisted any day.

I'll have power assisted variable ratio rack & pinion please, but go easy on the assistance and give me a nice weight in the wheel.

I'll have rack and peanut steering with a little button on the dash that says in tiny letters 'Pussy.' which turns on the electric assistance for parking.

The median IQ is around 100.

*average

I can also list many European cars when given the same sized engine that produce an astronomical amount of power.
Or even the same engine. The 8 litre Chrysler V10 in the Dodge Viper produces what, around 800bhp?
The 8 litre Chrysler V10 used in the Bristol Fighter produces 1012bhp. Hmmmmm.......

That went well off topic from the OP.

Because Europeans actually give a shit about emissions regulatins. :rolleyes:

Have you seen our obscene regulations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

I've seen many of my favourite engines discontinued because of these laws.

Of course, then there's the old Kyoto Convention.......

Of course you guys have regulations, but last I checked american spec was still detuned when compared to euro-spec due to emissions.

Have you seen our obscene regulations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

I've seen many of my favourite engines discontinued because of these laws.

Of course, then there's the old Kyoto Convention.......

No use of specific technologies is mandated to meet the standards, though available technology is considered when setting the standards.

Relative Carbon dioxide emissions from transport have risen rapidly in recent years, from 21% of the total in 1990 to 28% in 2004 [1], but currently there are no standards for CO2 emission limits for pollution from vehicles.

Evidently you didn't see your own obscene regulations. Why do diesel automobiles account for more than %50 of car purchases in Europe and that manufacturers won't even consider selling them here?

US tests its exhaust much more stringently than the EU:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ambient_Air_Quality_Standards
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for _passenger_cars

Actually, I think that chart may be wrong, or outdated.
I know emissions are set by the manufacturers now and my car was a max limit of 0.2% for CO emissions, and hydrocarbons were a maximum of 200 ppm.

So both standards seem pretty similar.

*average

Median would not be used incorrectly here. Median being the midpoint. If the midpoint of American IQs is 100, then that would be the median.

okay just to get more answers i am aiming at, here's a scenario. let's say you had a decent amount of money (not enough for a viper or extreme/exotic domestic like that but good money $30-50k). what DOMESTIC car would you purchase if you could NEVER purchase another domestic car. it is going to have to be the car you drive for the rest of your life. don't consider gas in your decision, lets just say gas is paid off for life or something haha but DO consider repair costs and other aspects. what car do you purchase and why?

okay just to get more answers i am aiming at, here's a scenario. let's say you had a decent amount of money (not enough for a viper or extreme/exotic domestic like that but good money $30-50k). what DOMESTIC car would you purchase if you could NEVER purchase another domestic car. it is going to have to be the car you drive for the rest of your life. don't consider gas in your decision, lets just say gas is paid off for life or something haha but DO consider repair costs and other aspects. what car do you purchase and why?

69 camaro. Because it looks fucking sexy, and chev v8s are some of the best sounding engines in the world.

What's the point of your direction change? I could pick a slant six '63 Plymouth Savoy, but it wouldn't make it the best car in the US. I wouldn't pick an old battered sav though. Hot box items aren't to my taste.

i think the highest quality domestic car would have to be the mk 3 ('66) or mk 4 ('67) GT-40 (pulled a 1 - 2 - 3 victory in lemans in '66, mk 4 gt-40 hit 220 mph in '67, and got first place), or if you want to be purely american, the most recent ford gt. and by quality, i mean sheer visceral pleasure, and brutal speed. in '66 you could buy a mk 3 for $18k, with the proper connections, of course.

i would say 300c/charger for a modern domestic, but those are just glorified previous generation e-class benzes with chrysler motors in them. IMO they're more german than american. they were initially developed for a world market, and not from the ground up to be a chrysler.

the new cts-v is exciting. alot more so than i thought it was going to be, the previous gen was already great enough (LSA instead of the LS-2/LS-6 for one, seen the newish top gear where capt' slow loved the cts-v after he got into the twisties?)

but as the way of cheap domestic cars, the new camaro is looking nice, hell the base v-6 is 300 hp for $23k!! thats cheap. would love a grand national as well, or the extra rare GNX. although in the whole fox body vs F-body, i'd go with a fox body mustang, preferably an SVO turbo-(pinto)-4 banger, just to be weird like that. the 5.0 is cheap speed.

a while back, my friends tweaker uncle had an LT-1 powered SVO bodied fox body stang at his place that he was being paid to work on. until that psychosis hit, and he drug the car on its roof because the owner didnt give him money or meth. was a shame.

What is this REW, some kind of a test? a joke?

i think the highest quality domestic car would have to be the mk 3 ('66) or mk 4 ('67) GT-40 (pulled a 1 - 2 - 3 victory in lemans in '66, mk 4 gt-40 hit 220 mph in '67, and got first place),

Stop right there: How is the blue boody hell does racing history or performance indicate quality?
There are tonnes of completely shithouse quality cars with large racing or performance success, so I wonder how you came to that conclusion. And for the sake of continuation, we'll say the GT 40 was a USDM vehicle.

or if you want to be purely american, the most recent ford gt. and by quality, i mean sheer visceral pleasure, and brutal speed.

I'm not saying the GT is a poor quality car (It's far from it, and a very nice car indeed even if it's lost a little soul of the original by catering to comfort. No car sells these days without that bullshit I guess..) but none of these things you've said really equal quality. Stop me if I'm incorrect, but these are just aspects of a car that impress you.

in '66 you could buy a mk 3 for $18k, with the proper connections, of course.

If you adjust (accurately) for inflation, the average GT 40 costs about the same as a Ford GT does these days. Around $150,000 for a base model '05 model. Not exactly the same bargain price as a Civic if that's what you were trying to say.

That wouldn't matter though, when it comes to the Mk. III. It wasn't around in '66, having only been produced between '67 and '69, with a total number of 7 or 8 made. You wouldn't be buying one in 1966 for any kind of money.


i would say 300c/charger for a modern domestic, but those are just glorified previous generation e-class benzes with chrysler motors in them. IMO they're more german than american. they were initially developed for a world market, and not from the ground up to be a chrysler.

This is where I really doubt the seriousness of your post. If there was any icon for cheap and tacky American vehicles right now it'd be the 300C. Every aspect of quality is pretty poor. Ever driven one? I have driven a couple (a diesel and 2 psuedo hemis), and none of them were even satisfactory in any area of quality. Just shite. The pretend to be a hemi versions are quicker than you think though, that's true. But once again, what do you think quality is?

That thing is an abomination to it's glorious predecessors (300E, D, C, etc).


the new cts-v is exciting. alot more so than i thought it was going to be, the previous gen was already great enough (LSA instead of the LS-2/LS-6 for one, seen the newish top gear where capt' slow loved the cts-v after he got into the twisties?)

Frankly, I believe this is one of if not the highest quality cars currently being produced for the USDM. You're not going to explain much about why you think it's qood quality? There are quite a few areas you could cover, you know.

but as the way of cheap domestic cars, the new camaro is looking nice, hell the base v-6 is 300 hp for $23k!! thats cheap.

Sure it's cheap, GM are selling themselves short perhaps, but it looks like what you're talking about is performance versus price. That ain't quality either, and in fact is more common with lower quality cars.
Make your points properly, or at least outline your idea of quality logically at the beginning of a post next time buddy.




Black Sabbath - Hand of Doom

$30-50k? I'm getting a viper. Loved it since I've been young, and since gas is not a factor...... can't go wrong with 8 Liters of brutality (Stock numbers are so-so but 800-1000hp Streetable??? Yes please!).

I hate that there are whips like the S600 which can cost a fortune, be badass under the hood, and mistaken for any other Benz.

Sorry for my fairly poor post here, I didn't have alot of time to fully express my thoughts.

See the thing is, allot of what you judge a car on IS the motor. boss 302, 426 max wedge, 327, 427, 429, 510, nail head, flathead, hemi head. Seee?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! That is exactly what you shouldn't automatically judge a car solely on! In the case of these american cars it is an asset, but that's my point: when will you look past the motor on its own and look at the rest of the car? A motor doesn't do shit if you don't have a chassis, body, and wheels to attach it to! And it certainly won't do you any good if you don't have steering with which to change direction, suspension to keep the wheels planted on the ground (amongst other things), and brakes with which to stop the car.

Whatever. Audi-boring bar the r8. Merc-boring bar the amg stuff. BMW-boring bar the m division.
I don't give a shit whether you can think of however many number of cars that are american that are boring. Clarkson described this issue perfectly when he tested the clubsport r8, by saying 'this kind of money [that gets you 6L v8, fun etc] buys you a 2-3L euro sedan [which is slow and boring as fuck]. Fun euro stuff just isn't as accessible as fun american stuff, end of story.

inb4 interior quality/pushrods/bad handling etc

What a load of shit.

I know you seem to think I'm some anti-american snob but trust me sunshine, I can't stand many americans - and thusly, their cars - precisely because they are so arrogant and think their shit rulez, even though it often doesn't. I'm happy to let anyone on this forum continue to believe I'm "arrogant" because it is their invariable right to think so, however the fact of the matter is I'm the least arrogant person in the world. I can only say that years of listening to yank-tank fans prattling on about how great their cars are and, more to the point, how shitty and overpriced european cars are have led me to immediately want to do any amount of cruel, dispicable acts towards them. Having let the years roll by and the maturity pile on, nowadays I'm simply happy to let such opposing words take a one way route through my ears inside and out again. Which leads me to this next quote:

I actually wrote a bid response to this but it can really be summed up in noone will change township or sponsored's warped views on just how good euro stuff really is, and noone will change my views warped or not on why i'd prefer a cheap american car with no tech and a shit interior to the embodiment of beige in a car that is the same price euro stuff.

Edit: I should say I actually quite like tonnes of euro stuff like e type jags, ferrari 275, aston vantage, but I just can't see the attraction to the boring stuff people always bang on about. Yes this includes those '4 briggs n strattons welded together' things called vws.

You see, here's the thing: You'll never understand my love for the Corrado or Beetle or GTI or Scirocco or T1 or Vanagon or etc etc etc because - surprise! - you have different tastes than I do. When you were little you probably worshipped those big block muscle cars and grew up on the sound of that V8 rumble. Well, I grew up on the sound of a Turbocharged straight-5 connected to all four wheels, buddy. As far as normal cars such as your average VW, I recommend a Jetta when somebody asks about cheap, economical import sedans because as unlikely as it is for you to admit it, they are simply one of the best options in that sector. I really don't think I should have to explain why. I don't know where you get the idea that I find these basic economy cars as fun in the same sense as a high-performance machine, I don't know about you but my dreams are usually filled with Urquattros, GT2s, M3s and RS4s. With the occasional Lamborghini. Do I have to explain my attraction to stuff like that? Would you call those cars 'boring'? If you do, shame on your ignorance.

Lastly: My choice for a decent, new American car? Give me a Pontiac G6 GT any day. And no, I'm not kidding.