These people need to shut up and read a book.

Whether it be a political or social issue, on the news, in the paper, from the mouth of a friend almost every issue has a stance that is closely related, if not directly related to a socioecomic system of some description. You can't escape it. What annoys me is when people read something and deem it bad, maybe it's Orwellian in nature, or facist, and people right away say "oh no that's bleedin' communism!" or "arr that's bloody socialism". Well It's fucking annoying and it's time you people learned a thing or two.

We'll start with socialism:

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.

Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other.

When this boils down to it, this does not mean that the state will own and control everything as a standard. That's called nationalism (think Nazi Germany) and is an extreme take on socialist ideology. People whine about socialism but don't really know what it is. It's helped set up:

Schooling.
Free healthcare systems.
Benefit and housing systems.
Labour unions.

...and many more, with those being some prominent examples. Socialism can work to be a very democratic process. It's very community based. Probably why Americans are so threatened by it because you have no sense of community. Only you people seem to think Free healthcare for all is evil, and are the only people who seem to stick up for the rights of fatcats to hold all of the wealth and property because that's a fair process of doing things.



Now, about communism:

Communism is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general.[1][2][3] Karl Marx posited that communism would be the final stage in human society, evolving into a classless, stateless society of "pure communism".

Note this.

Anything where there's a state or class system or promotes such is NOT communist. You cannot have a communist government, it's a fucking paradox.

Communism is progressive and as such it cannot be outlined in any form yet, because it hasn't happened yet. It's the hypothesized final stage of material production and social organisation where scarcity and oppression are to be at their lowest. You can only make sweeping guesses as to what this society would be like based upon social and material circumstances that are currently rooted.

So make sure you don't make yourself look like a total fucking idiot next time. People with a brain will laugh at you and ignore you.

Okay.

Yeah. Socialism/communism can actually work. It's just that the people in power inevitably want more than their fair share and fuck the whole system up through greed and corruption.

People with a brain will laugh at you and ignore you.

Ironic, coming from someone who would cite Wikipedia of all sources to support their argument.

Ironic, coming from someone who would cite Wikipedia of all sources to support their argument.

Why is this ironic? What would you cite?

A book from the library of a world renowned university, or the script of scholarly debate of intellectuals; in other words, something you would not have read.

Information gathered from the internet is worthless. Anyone behind a keyboard can become an expert. The only true information out there, that which is of some sort of substance cannot be found online.

I agree that socialism or communism could make an ideal societal situation. The main concerns I have are human greed and that certain people will ALWAYS take or try to take more than their fair share. Honestly though...think about this: With all the trillions upon trillons of dollars' worth of money and the resources on this planet, couldn't we distribute it somewhat evenly and yet have enough for EVERY SINGLE PERSON on the planet to be "rich"? With only 6 billion people, and the massive deposits and resources that exist, it wouldn't be difficult to do that. Before anybody posts that we will have more than 6 billion people in the future, yes, we will. It takes a long time for the population of the planet to even double though, due to disease and other problems. Those may be slowed if we shared the wealth, but in the long run, it's the most fair way of doing things.

Only 6 billion people? You think 6 billion is a small number?
There aren't enough resources on this planet to sustain 6 billion people and we're closer to 7 billion already. The planet can quite possibly support 500 million people but once in the billions we are too dominant on the planet and begin to suffocate it. Any doubts; refer to twenty years from now.

If there was a firebomb holocaust of the areas of the areas of the world that do not matter, such as Africa and all of Asia and South America, and I pray that there is; Earth would be a better place.

I agree that socialism or communism could make an ideal societal situation. The main concerns I have are human greed and that certain people will ALWAYS take or try to take more than their fair share. Honestly though...think about this: With all the trillions upon trillons of dollars' worth of money and the resources on this planet, couldn't we distribute it somewhat evenly and yet have enough for EVERY SINGLE PERSON on the planet to be "rich"? With only 6 billion people, and the massive deposits and resources that exist, it wouldn't be difficult to do that. Before anybody posts that we will have more than 6 billion people in the future, yes, we will. It takes a long time for the population of the planet to even double though, due to disease and other problems. Those may be slowed if we shared the wealth, but in the long run, it's the most fair way of doing things.

Are you fucking serious? Are you really that naive? This is definitely one of the dumbest posts I've read in a while, and the fact that you are serious just makes it worse.

Communism in its inherent nature is impossible and will never work due to human nature and its obvious flaws. Everyone is "equal" but the "government" is in control. There is no motivation to work, a janitor is equal to a brain surgeon, a dishwasher to a lawyer, society breaks down while the pigs running the show have more power and money than anyone else. Communism fails because it assumes people are good, and that they will act for the greater good, when in reality the lust for power is too great. Marx thought that the leaders would step down after implementing Communism, but do you really see that happening? No, it never would.


Now when you say you want to redistribute all the Earths resources equally to everyone (which first of all is obviously fucking impossible) you are basically following the socialist trend of redistributing the wealth. Ignoring the facts that we don't exactly have "massive deposits and resources", what the fuck do you think happens when everyone becomes "rich"? Turns out you're not really rich after all, your money becomes worthless, and what ensues is a massive inflation. Maybe that explains why the government doesn't just give everyone a million dollars, or print more money rather than raise taxes, etc.

Look, it may not be fair but its evident that society consistently drifts towards class structures. When everyone becomes theoretically equal what is left is a vacuum of power, that will inevitably be filled by another oppressor. Communism is a good try, but it would never work for humans.

free health care? yes so my tax dollars can support every bum with problems. you do realize with free health care comes a ridiculous wait? you can't just get a tooth pulled tomorrow with free health care....


labor unions, yea the guys that siphon off money outta your pay check to "guarantee" you a job. shit last time i checked, the local area had a 200 job wait..

benefits and subsidized housing. oh god, niggers and puerto ricans. need i say more. section 8 anyone?


schooling. oh yes, find me a place on earth with a free university system that doesn't suck..

Are you fucking serious? Are you really that naive? This is definitely one of the dumbest posts I've read in a while, and the fact that you are serious just makes it worse.

Communism in its inherent nature is impossible and will never work due to human nature and its obvious flaws. Everyone is "equal" but the "government" is in control. There is no motivation to work, a janitor is equal to a brain surgeon, a dishwasher to a lawyer, society breaks down while the pigs running the show have more power and money than anyone else. Communism fails because it assumes people are good, and that they will act for the greater good, when in reality the lust for power is too great. Marx thought that the leaders would step down after implementing Communism, but do you really see that happening? No, it never would.


Now when you say you want to redistribute all the Earths resources equally to everyone (which first of all is obviously fucking impossible) you are basically following the socialist trend of redistributing the wealth. Ignoring the facts that we don't exactly have "massive deposits and resources", what the fuck do you think happens when everyone becomes "rich"? Turns out you're not really rich after all, your money becomes worthless, and what ensues is a massive inflation. Maybe that explains why the government doesn't just give everyone a million dollars, or print more money rather than raise taxes, etc.

Look, it may not be fair but its evident that society consistently drifts towards class structures. When everyone becomes theoretically equal what is left is a vacuum of power, that will inevitably be filled by another oppressor. Communism is a good try, but it would never work for humans.

Thanks, it's good to see someone on these forums that isn't a pathetic sap of a humanist, an optimistic anti-cynic that believes people of all classes and races are equal and that we can all just get along; that humans are naturally good-natured. FUCK THE LEFT.

Thanks, it's good to see someone on these forums that isn't a pathetic sap of a humanitarian, an optimistic anti-cynic that believes people of all classes and races are equal and that we can all just get along; that humans are naturally good-natured. FUCK THE LEFT.

Yay.

I'd like to add, Toothlessjoe, you're not going to be a mod and you try way to hard to sound smart, whore. That is all.

going back to the topic at hand (being about people not understanding what they are accusing an idea of), its always going to happen because people see different things in a different light

free health care? yes so my tax dollars can support every bum with problems. you do realize with free health care comes a ridiculous wait? you can't just get a tooth pulled tomorrow with free health care....


labor unions, yea the guys that siphon off money outta your pay check to "guarantee" you a job. shit last time i checked, the local area had a 200 job wait..

benefits and subsidized housing. oh god, niggers and puerto ricans. need i say more. section 8 anyone?


schooling. oh yes, find me a place on earth with a free university system that doesn't suck..
Have you ever lived outside the US?

Communism in its inherent nature is impossible and will never work due to human nature and its obvious flaws. Everyone is "equal" but the "government" is in control. There is no motivation to work, a janitor is equal to a brain surgeon, a dishwasher to a lawyer, society breaks down while the pigs running the show have more power and money than anyone else. Communism fails because it assumes people are good, and that they will act for the greater good, when in reality the lust for power is too great. Marx thought that the leaders would step down after implementing Communism, but do you really see that happening? No, it never would.


Now when you say you want to redistribute all the Earths resources equally to everyone (which first of all is obviously fucking impossible) you are basically following the socialist trend of redistributing the wealth. Ignoring the facts that we don't exactly have "massive deposits and resources", what the fuck do you think happens when everyone becomes "rich"? Turns out you're not really rich after all, your money becomes worthless, and what ensues is a massive inflation. Maybe that explains why the government doesn't just give everyone a million dollars, or print more money rather than raise taxes, etc.

Look, it may not be fair but its evident that society consistently drifts towards class structures. When everyone becomes theoretically equal what is left is a vacuum of power, that will inevitably be filled by another oppressor. Communism is a good try, but it would never work for humans.

Excellent post.

Humans are a self-predatory species, any social model which ignores this will never be anything more than a theory on a piece of paper.

Humans are a self-predatory species, any social model which ignores this will never be anything more than a theory on a piece of paper.

I think you over-generalize. That may be true of those in a stage one or stage two state of spiritual development, but more and more people are transcending that.

but more and more people are transcending that.

What? 12 people out of 6.5 billion? Some enlightenment...


Communism is retarded, and socialism is the ideology of lazy bums and uni students that have 0% experience in real life. Affordable basic health care is where socialism stops for me. People need to learn how to deal with the money they earn and distribute it logically. The government shouldn't be allowed to decide over that. Income tax shouldn't be higher than 1%. Basically every country in the world sins against this. In my eyes, income tax over 1% is a breach of basic human rights and leads to pseudo-voluntary slavery.

A government cannot expect to have citizens who are voluntary law abiders when it rips them off. People all around me, and myself including, will systematically break laws at every chance they get in order to recover the money that was stolen from them by the mobsters in the government.

I think you over-generalize. That may be true of those in a stage one or stage two state of spiritual development, but more and more people are transcending that.

Maybe it's because I'm stuck in stage one, but I can't envisage a society without hierachy, i.e. economic or social self-predation (not just violence), not unless humanity starts "transcending" a damn sight faster.

What? 12 people out of 6.5 billion? Some enlightenment...

It's all your fault, you're single-handedly holding us all back; humanity wants to evolve to stage three and all you want to do is raise gangsta cats and kick people to death.

You need to release your inner Gandhi, man.

You need to release your inner Gandhi, man.

Hasj can only keep me sedated for so long. Sooner or later I have to wake up to reality and turn into a murderous beast.