Let me start off by saying I am Catholic and I believe in God and I don't really care if you don't.

But there is a difference between people who believe in God and people who don't believe.

Almost all people who state they are atheist don't just not believe they have their own little anti-god thing going on. With vendettas against people and shit.

But other people like just say I don't think God exists that's just what i think. Those people don't believe in God but are not Atheist. Atheists believe in not believing there is God.
Other people just don't believe in God.

And to clear something up I don't like religious fanatic people unless they are conservative and humble, then I respect them.

And people are always looking for signs and proof and all this shit. They have to realize God is not logical He doesn't follow some rules of logic. He can make a rock he can't lift and then lift it.

Also I think evolution is flawed, but not because of religion(I don't even think Catholics are suppose to care anyway idk I don't go to church much.) It just seems like a really shitty way to try to piece things together. People always look at history and try to make things into a time line but the world isn't linear. What people do is they see all the things they can see and try to connect the dots, but this is a flawed way in thinking. But I think evolution doesn't really contrast any way of Intelligent Design anyway. Who said all that shit really means exactly 7 days. You know. People got all their shit mixed up all over. I mean I see so much bullshit everyday about everything, not just religion tons of things. Most people are generally stupid and the part that's bad about that is that they think their smart. Like I was reading some stupid book about what they experts believe but can't prove(waste of time really) And the whole fucking like book is about scientists people on every page saying over and over I don't believe in God and He is fake and all this shit its like what the fuck you know. Gay book.

But let me just give you an example of what I'm talking about.

This current economic crisis thing. And its hilarious how stupid these people are. Some dude the current treasurer guy was talking in the newspaper and he said "This event was unprecedented and we never had anything like this before." Wtf. People need to realize the only thing that matters is the paranormal. WHat happens on a normal day doesn't mean shit. All the significant things that were ever invented or discovered WERE DISCOVERED BY CHANCE.

Penicillin
Big bang theory (Some people were getting a fuzzy signal and thought it was some bird poop in the dish. So some people looking to clean out bird poop are the ones who revived the big bang theory.)
Internet
many others

Everything that matters is not expected. The unexpected is the MOST important thing ESPECIALLY in the stock market. And THINGS ARE ALWAYS UNPRECEDENTED. That dude who said that shit is a dumbass. People look at graphs of past data of how prices rose or fell and shit. They need to realize all that has absolutely fucking nothing to do with what will happen next. JUST LOOK AT ECONOMISTS PREDICTION RECORDS. They are wrong more than half the time all their equations and shit they do only work in a world with no paranormal occurrences. And using the bell-curve to remove outliers and not accounting for errors.

This applies to everything, weather too. The longer in time we have to predict the more wrong things are. When ever people try to prove Global Warming by looking at past data they should be slapped across the face for their ignorance. They can't even predict the weather for the next week with accuracy. They do not know what the fuck they are talking about.

And the Confirmation Bias. Let me give you a good example. White Swans, People who see swans everyday for their whole lives can say " I think all swans are white." and with every new white swan they see they think it adds credibility to their theory. But with the discovery of Australia ALL IT TOOK WAS ONE black swan to prove them all wrong. It doesn't matter if they saw 20 billion to the billionth power number of white swans, ONE black one will prove them wrong.

A lot of people believe that the people who invented stuff just sat down and had a planned out time line of how to invent their invention. NO. It was through trial and error(light bulb) or luck.

I'm not saying become some kind of schizophrenic. Things should just be viewed with thought and skepticism. That's one thing about religion, no reason is needed for your belief.

Well w/e this just kept going so write your ideas or comments.

Almost all people who state they are atheist don't just not believe they have their own little anti-god thing going on. With vendettas against people and shit
you my friend are rude and crazy people dont just simply have a dislike of god they just dont belive he exists i myself am an athiest simply because ive been to church and seen what its about and learned the beliefs and i also understand the therory of evolution and frankly its got more evidence behind it i cant belive what i cant see theres so much evidence of evolution just because the missing link isnt found yet doesnt matter theres evidence that other creatures evolved god is one big placebo effect the mind does weird things when it hears something it likes enjoyable things i get adrenaline rushs when i lisen to music i like or recognise im not giving you crap so if you comment please say something intelligent
also id like to say if there was some evidence like a proper sign 1 day that would be great every 1 want to belive that theres some thing after life every1 wants to live forever including me but like i said i need proof

Let me start off by saying I am Catholic and I believe in God and I don't really care if you don't.

lulz oxymoron.

Mac. . . ., you may have made a few valid points but they got lost in the clutter of poor grammar and spelling.

Please edit your post.

All things significant were discovered by chance? The Internet? Its just a bunch of networked computers! Pleae explain your reasoning.

And evolution does contrast intelligent design, its just mutations of genes some which die off. Man was created in Gods image, not physically but mentally. With the ability to love and with freewill, something animals lack.

I don't think any reasonable persons believes the 7 days are literal.


Also, you a believing catholic that doesn't go to church? Paradox?

Mac. . . ., you may have made a few valid points but they got lost in the clutter of poor grammar and spelling.

Please edit your post.

To add on to this post, no offense, but your post lacks good organization and composition.

First, "Almost all people..." is a logical fallacy in the making. "Strawman" in particular. You create a false proposition for a group ("Almost all people who don't believe have vendettas against people and shit") which you then attack, but no one can really disprove it since if they don't have vendettas, they are simply not part of the "Almost all..." You don't just want, you require sources for this shit.

Secondly, I originally became an atheist because I grew up Christian and, at some point, I realized that the Christian god is evil, vain, cruel and unjust and I could in no way follow him and feel that I was also being moral at the same time. Over time, I gradually lost any sense of belief in anything at all, but I feel much better; I am able to actually apprehend and enjoy this world as opposed to fearing that Satan is trying to infiltrate my heart at any moment and that the only thing I should look forward to is going to heaven. You wind up hating the world and your life until it's gone.

Thirdly, you only respect religious fundamentalists if they are conservative and humble? I dearly hope you don't mean politically conservative, because that would be a heinous bias to approach religious topics with. Also, if you followed Christianity to the letter (well, most of them, ignoring the ones that contradict this, but that should be easy enough), you have no option but to love each and every person the same regardless of how they might be. Your religion, in some senses, has no tolerance for anything but idealism when it comes to dealing with people.

Fourthly, if God can bend logic like that, if he can bend science, how can we trust him? When he can deceive the very fundaments of our perception, how can we ever know that he is being honest? Perhaps his idea of an eternal reward is burning you. Perhaps his idea of eternal punishment is separation into a field of flowers and music. The point is that if you have an entity that, in order to exist, not only can but often does rewrite the rules, how can you trust any of the rules at all? Because he promised? If he can change a stone that he can't lift into one he can (or break the logic and do it anyway), why can't he honestly promise something and then honestly not give it? Oh, but he just wouldn't do that? How can you know? That is the point; you cannot know.

Allow me to continue this train of thought temporarily (and use an old parable): You should be well aware of disaster rates and murder and rape and all of that, even of good Christians. Now, why is it that a good God can allow these things? (This question is called "theodicy", if you want to look it up later.) Assuming that he is aware of these things (as an omniscient being should be), he has two basic options: Do not intercede or intercede. He can either allow the action to take place or alter it somehow. Hold that thought for a moment.

Suppose a person came into the same power. He could see everything, be everywhere and do anything he wanted, anytime. If we were to honestly hold him accountable for his actions, how would we react if we knew he let cancer, rape, murder, famine, pestilence, poverty and all other types of suffering exist? He literally has the power to stop that. But he preserves it. I posit that, based on every human who has ever inflicted suffering or knowingly withheld treatment of suffering (except Mother THeresa), we would decry his actions unless he stopped suffering. Purposefully allowing it would be unconscionable.

And yet, if the Christian god (or, in fact, any god) exists, that is precisely what is done unless he is not either omniscient or omnipotent (or benevolent). However, Christian is hinged upon all of these being so. That is but one of many reasons that the Christian God is vile in my eyes (most of the others have to do with reading the Bible and hearing the justification for heinous acts).

Fifthly, you demonstrated no understanding of evolution or the Big Bang nor did you make any claims to, which is good. You merely said that it doesn't make sense. It's brave to admit gray areas and I honestly commend you for that. I recommend you look into books like The Selfish Gene and River Out of Eden by Richard Dawkins (both have mild and short sections on religion but are, by and large, biological texts) or, alternatively, watch some YouTube videos from either scientists or people who quote extensively from science literature (they should normally state whether they are and their sources in the sidebar; if I remember to check this, I'll post a couple links). There is a lot of misunderstanding about both theories and even what "theory" means in a scientific setting (it's not just a guess) and a great deal could be fixed by seeing the information first hand without the preconceived bias of it being wrong.

Sixthly and finally, your comments on confirmation bias: That is exactly what science fights against. Your example, that one black swan proved that not all are white? That is good science. Science is the process of discovering the mechanics and realities of our world through externally verifiable evidence, be it recording something (eyewitnesses are not good evidence; Wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_identification) and there are sources at the bottom to follow if you need more evidence, as well as Google), forming a verifiable equation (the process of verifying equations is pretty interesting if you are a math nerd) or performing an experiment focused on a single aspect of either of those. The theories of evolution, the Big Bang and, yes, even global warming are not made or broken by single bits of evidence. Evolution is the most solid with literally trillions upon trillions of data points from thousands of experiments. An experiment recently closed in which a university spent 40 years monitoring the isolated growths of over 45,000 generations of E. coli, with trillions of microbes having been studied by the closed, showing distinct mutations and evolutions of traits never before seen in E. coli (they evolved to be able to digest the fluid they were being suspended in like 32K generations in or something). That is only one area in one field; many, many fields point towards it. The Big Bang has a similar range, though not quite as broad, though still vast. Global warming has even less but still has a massive amount of supporting evidence.

The primary thing to do when dealing with scientific theories and ideas is to never, ever trust someone who isn't a professional who isn't citing shit. A publication like Scientific American is trustworthy because they have a list of everything they cite from and many articles are written either by or with close work with scientists in the field. If it is a politician, preacher, family member or random guy (yes, even me), do not trust them. Science gets politicized far too often when it is not a political game; science doesn't care about liberals or conservatives, Christians or Buddhists, family or not family. It only cares about pursuit of fact and, like I said earlier, it is flexible enough to both admit areas of fault when it is demonstrated through a valid method and then to change the theories accordingly. Evolution will never go away. It might have aspects change, but science rarely actually discards whole theories, especially with so many data points. But this information is out there. This is what Totse is about; learning. Get out there and grow.

On an unrelated note, tonight is the night of epic posts from me.

Fourthly, if God can bend logic like that, if he can bend science, how can we trust him? When he can deceive the very fundaments of our perception, how can we ever know that he is being honest? Perhaps his idea of an eternal reward is burning you. Perhaps his idea of eternal punishment is separation into a field of flowers and music. The point is that if you have an entity that, in order to exist, not only can but often does rewrite the rules, how can you trust any of the rules at all? Because he promised? If he can change a stone that he can't lift into one he can (or break the logic and do it anyway), why can't he honestly promise something and then honestly not give it? Oh, but he just wouldn't do that? How can you know? That is the point; you cannot know.



Well illogical things can't really be explained.

Don't quote me on God cause this was some poorly organized rant.

Im not perfect either

I meant conservative as in open minded nice people.

Yes you cannot not know all i can say to that is why not believe it doesn't take much effort.

And im no role model Catholic (not that i'm trying to be) (The details don't matter that much to me)

and once again in the end its cool cause i don't really care. if your a nice person you'll probably go to heaven idk. That means i probably won't go.

I don't really bother to try and think about this cause theres no point you will never get an answer.

Almost all people who state they are atheist don't just not believe they have their own little anti-god thing going on. With vendettas against people and shit

hmm yeah I pretty much stopped reading there.An Atheist is a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.Where in there did you get the impression that an atheist generally has an 'anti-god' thing going on?Yeah look up your shit.

Almost all people who state they are atheist don't just not believe they have their own little anti-god thing going on. With vendettas against people and shit
you my friend are rude and crazy people dont just simply have a dislike of god they just dont belive he exists i myself am an athiest simply because ive been to church and seen what its about and learned the beliefs and i also understand the therory of evolution and frankly its got more evidence behind it i cant belive what i cant see theres so much evidence of evolution just because the missing link isnt found yet doesnt matter theres evidence that other creatures evolved god is one big placebo effect the mind does weird things when it hears something it likes enjoyable things i get adrenaline rushs when i lisen to music i like or recognise im not giving you crap so if you comment please say something intelligent
also id like to say if there was some evidence like a proper sign 1 day that would be great every 1 want to belive that theres some thing after life every1 wants to live forever including me but like i said i need proof

That is one of the longest run on sentences I've ever seen in my life, however I'm just speaking as one of the posters within this part of totse forums.

It's funny that everyone here speaks more of grammer then the the actual topic. You want good grammer go to linguistics you dumb fucks.

Well illogical things can't really be explained.

Yes you cannot not know all i can say to that is why not believe it doesn't take much effort.
mm that dosent make sense and thats what illogical means of of course it cant be explained if 3+3=5 how would you explain that you cant it doesnt make sense

I read most of your post, but it got pretty damn ranty and I got bored of reading it. So not quite tl;dr, but just not something I'm willing to put my time into. Neither is yet another hurr-religion argument, and so quite ironically I'm going to pick up on one point.


Almost all people who state they are atheist don't just not believe they have their own little anti-god thing going on. With vendettas against people and shit.

I quite agree, there's plenty of mad fuck retarded atheists who almost see being an atheist as another religion in itself. I'm an atheist, but only by definition, I don't like the stigma and stereotype that goes with it. I went to a church school, I've got Christian friends, I listen to both pro & anti Christian music; my point is that unless I get a nutcase ranting and preaching at me, telling me I'm going to burn, I don't make a problem out of it at all, and won't try to press my opinions on others.

But if I'm an atheist, and I don't have a little anti-god thing going on, at least on the level that I'm sure you don't have a little anti atheist thing going on, then what am I? I'm still a 'strong' atheist, I'm just not an... atheist activist? I dunno, its just a little damning and stereotypical to group atheists as all being the vocal minority.

Let me start off by saying I am Catholic and I believe in God and I don't really care if you don't.

But there is a difference between people who believe in God and people who don't believe.

Almost all people who state they are atheist don't just not believe they have their own little anti-god thing going on. With vendettas against people and shit.

But other people like just say I don't think God exists that's just what i think. Those people don't believe in God but are not Atheist. Atheists believe in not believing there is God.
Other people just don't believe in God.

And to clear something up I don't like religious fanatic people unless they are conservative and humble, then I respect them.

And people are always looking for signs and proof and all this shit. They have to realize God is not logical He doesn't follow some rules of logic. He can make a rock he can't lift and then lift it.

Also I think evolution is flawed, but not because of religion(I don't even think Catholics are suppose to care anyway idk I don't go to church much.) It just seems like a really shitty way to try to piece things together. People always look at history and try to make things into a time line but the world isn't linear. What people do is they see all the things they can see and try to connect the dots, but this is a flawed way in thinking. But I think evolution doesn't really contrast any way of Intelligent Design anyway. Who said all that shit really means exactly 7 days. You know. People got all their shit mixed up all over. I mean I see so much bullshit everyday about everything, not just religion tons of things. Most people are generally stupid and the part that's bad about that is that they think their smart. Like I was reading some stupid book about what they experts believe but can't prove(waste of time really) And the whole fucking like book is about scientists people on every page saying over and over I don't believe in God and He is fake and all this shit its like what the fuck you know. Gay book.

But let me just give you an example of what I'm talking about.

This current economic crisis thing. And its hilarious how stupid these people are. Some dude the current treasurer guy was talking in the newspaper and he said "This event was unprecedented and we never had anything like this before." Wtf. People need to realize the only thing that matters is the paranormal. WHat happens on a normal day doesn't mean shit. All the significant things that were ever invented or discovered WERE DISCOVERED BY CHANCE.

Penicillin
Big bang theory (Some people were getting a fuzzy signal and thought it was some bird poop in the dish. So some people looking to clean out bird poop are the ones who revived the big bang theory.)
Internet
many others

Everything that matters is not expected. The unexpected is the MOST important thing ESPECIALLY in the stock market. And THINGS ARE ALWAYS UNPRECEDENTED. That dude who said that shit is a dumbass. People look at graphs of past data of how prices rose or fell and shit. They need to realize all that has absolutely fucking nothing to do with what will happen next. JUST LOOK AT ECONOMISTS PREDICTION RECORDS. They are wrong more than half the time all their equations and shit they do only work in a world with no paranormal occurrences. And using the bell-curve to remove outliers and not accounting for errors.

This applies to everything, weather too. The longer in time we have to predict the more wrong things are. When ever people try to prove Global Warming by looking at past data they should be slapped across the face for their ignorance. They can't even predict the weather for the next week with accuracy. They do not know what the fuck they are talking about.

And the Confirmation Bias. Let me give you a good example. White Swans, People who see swans everyday for their whole lives can say " I think all swans are white." and with every new white swan they see they think it adds credibility to their theory. But with the discovery of Australia ALL IT TOOK WAS ONE black swan to prove them all wrong. It doesn't matter if they saw 20 billion to the billionth power number of white swans, ONE black one will prove them wrong.

A lot of people believe that the people who invented stuff just sat down and had a planned out time line of how to invent their invention. NO. It was through trial and error(light bulb) or luck.

I'm not saying become some kind of schizophrenic. Things should just be viewed with thought and skepticism. That's one thing about religion, no reason is needed for your belief.

Well w/e this just kept going so write your ideas or comments.

When did you decide it would be a good idea to post this underdeveloped, ignorant rant of nonsense?

That is one of the longest run on sentences I've ever seen in my life, however I'm just speaking as one of the posters within this part of totse forums.

It's funny that everyone here speaks more of grammer then the the actual topic. You want good grammer go to linguistics you dumb fucks.
lol i agree with this guy no offence moderater my spelling is horrible but it doesnt matter my point gets through. i post some of this stuff at like 4:00am with out sleep its effort for me not to write the whole thing in text form

as far as i know there are various denominations of atheists so there would be some who are non-believing and some who are anti-believing.

those are some pretty broad, bizarre anti-atheist theories. lots of people lacking any sort of faith still find knowledge and value in religion.

Almost all people who state they are atheist don't just not believe they have their own little anti-god thing going on. With vendettas against people and shit.

this is unfortunate and true to a certain extent because (from my experience at least) these atheists grew up in religious environments and suffered in some way. they are usually outcasts and thus demonized in some fashion. then when the tables are turned and they are in the majority or not so outnumbered they go in for payback. I've done so myself in my teenage years.

My beef with atheism is that it professes what one does not believe, rather than what one does believe. Asimov said the same thing right before he started calling himself a humanist.

Now, I do realize that you can flip this coin and say that atheism is merely the belief that there is no God. In the same way that you can't prove a negative, I don't think you can explicitly believe in a lack of something - you can simply disbelieve it.

Everyone has their own spiritual philosophy, even atheists. But it's all just word games, so it's not really that important.

My beef with atheism is that it professes what one does not believe, rather than what one does believe. Asimov said the same thing right before he started calling himself a humanist.

Now, I do realize that you can flip this coin and say that atheism is merely the belief that there is no God. In the same way that you can't prove a negative, I don't think you can explicitly believe in a lack of something - you can simply disbelieve it.

Everyone has their own spiritual philosophy, even atheists. But it's all just word games, so it's not really that important.

But, since there are those that do believe there is a higher being out there, the burden of proof to support their claim is on them. Until then, I think I'll do something more productive than chanting on my Sunday mornings.

But, since there are those that do believe there is a higher being out there, the burden of proof to support their claim is on them. Until then, I think I'll do something more productive than chanting on my Sunday mornings.

You mistake me, good sir.

I am not trying to use this as an argument for any sort of spiritual belief. I am simply arguing against the label "atheism". I don't believe there are actually any atheists, because everyone has a spiritual philosophy.

I am also questioning the merits of defining oneself by what one doesn't believe rather than what one does believe.

You mistake me, good sir.

I am not trying to use this as an argument for any sort of spiritual belief. I am simply arguing against the label "atheism". I don't believe there are actually any atheists, because everyone has a spiritual philosophy.

I am also questioning the merits of defining oneself by what one doesn't believe rather than what one does believe.

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail your argument.

In regards to your argument, you do pose a good question. None of us "atheists" are really atheist, because we ourselves cling to our own set of dogmatic belief.

I don't agree much with your last argument, however. Our defining of our belief by non-belief is just as valid as others' defining of themselves by their belief.

I think the people who "lack a belief in God" should be called agnostics instead of atheists, and I think the definition for general atheism should be the one currently used for "strong" atheism.

Agnosticism has nothing to do with believing in God. It is lacking both the belief that God exists, and the belief that God does not. It is the only "I don't know" position.

I think atheism should be the word used to describe the belief that there is no God. Someone who lacks a belief in God, but also believes God doesn't exist. For someone who simply lacks a belief in God is only an agnostic.

Arent atheists non-believers?

Are they vsing each other?

Arent atheists non-believers?

yes, atheists are non-believers

but non-believers may not be atheists.

like fundamentalist religion followers are of that religion however 'standard' followers are not fundamentalists but are also of that religion

some like to distance themselves from religion, some dont care

None of us "atheists" are really atheist, because we ourselves cling to our own set of dogmatic belief.

Also, I just thought of something.

Are you an atheist if you believe that there is no God, but you believe in things like karma and superstition?

Also, I just thought of something.

Are you an atheist if you believe that there is no God, but you believe in things like karma and superstition?

No, then you are not atheist, nor agnostic for that matter. You'd be spiritual, but not religious. Care to join to disbelief bandwagon?

Theism, in its most inclusive usage, is the belief in at least one deity.

Theism does not equal dogmatic belief.

-------

No matter how dogmatic your beliefs are....you are not a theist, if you do not believe in a deity.

Atheists are not really theists.

-------

I love it when people try to group or further define what atheism means.

Atheists have about as much in common as non-plumbers do.

How many of you here are certified plumbers? How many of you identify with one another b/c you are all non-plumbers? How many of you consider yourselves to be a religion of non-plumbers. How many of you non-plumbers out there, meet up with one another and discuss non-plumbing, and form dogmatic belief structures about not plumbing?

When you think atheism, just think not a theist, and leave it at that.

All the arguing! What does it matter who believes what? It doesn't matter as much what we believe as much as whether or not we use our beliefs as a weapon. I use mine as a bandage. DRUM LINES!!!!!

Ba dum drdrdrdrdrum bum, da dum drdrdrdrdrum dum, ba dum ba bum bada drdrdrdrdrum dum!

^Umm good point lost it all in the whatever the fuck that was the the drum line and shi...Anyways,
This thread is for Discussing any and all religious viewpoints.

Not arguing to see who is correct as that will never be proven true. People may be persuaded but no one will ever be able to proof their believes as absolute truth.

oo wait Atheists reject God, but non-believers are that big clunk of people who dont know shit about who they are or what they believe who "dont-know"?

I think Atheism pertains to more than anti-theism.

It also pertains to ideas in which theism or a diety are fundamental at least in their original context i.e. karma.

Let me start off by saying I am Catholic


and once again in the end its cool cause i don't really care. if your a nice person you'll probably go to heaven idk. That means i probably won't go.

I don't really bother to try and think about this cause theres no point you will never get an answer.

Fuck you.

As much as I disagree with Catholicism, I must say I'm almost offended with how many contradictory and downright idiotic things you've said. You're no Catholic, and by what your posts say you have little to no knowledge about Catholicism.

I just wanted to tell you how badly your posts anger me, so...

Just shut the fuck up. Your posts piss me off more than any troll's ever have. What the fuck are you rambling on about?

Just to reiterate, fuck you.

When you think atheism, just think not a theist, and leave it at that.

If we are to accept this, then there should be another word created for those atheists who are not agnostics and actually believe that there is no God.

If we are to accept this, then there should be another word created for those atheists who are not agnostics and actually believe that there is no God.

The word atheist already covers them. Much like the word theist already covers a multitude of differing theistic beliefs/positions.

If you think the word atheist is too vague, then you can use the adjectives "strong" or "positive".