Most countries that totseans live in have them - the secret services, that have more powers than anyone, and that are in no way controlled by the society (except for the whistleblowers cases - but that's an exception rather than the rule).

Various human rights watch groups are often useless against secret services either - they often act in a way that leaves you with no proof, or find ways to discredit you if you do find out something.

Their existence makes all the talks about democracy, constitution, laws - absolete. What's the use of law, when there is a group of people that doesn't fall under it, even in theory?

It's also clear, that there is no way to get rid of the secret services - if one country gets rid of them and another doesn't, the one that doesn't get put at great risk due to their now knowing anything about the opposition, while their opposition knows about everything.



So, totse. What are your thoughts on the matter? What are your solutions?

So, totse. What are your thoughts on the matter? What are your solutions?

I would say maintaining an open system that has NO classified information what-so-ever. You don't need a department for every damn thing when you've got a functional free market that could take care of all they do. So, to where you said that a country without secert service is defenseless against another that maintains them I agree, but I think if this country had no secerts and a strong constitution that defends the people's right to own everything, there wouldn't be a need for a secert service to infilitrate the higher command office because there wouldn't be any, in other words, distribution of power means there's nothing to infilitrate.

ASIS scares the shit out of me, really. More so than the CIA, CSIS or MI6. I live in Australia, our government fucks a lot of things up, but ASIS is one of the most efficient government run machines around. They release very little to the public and when they do it is a "wut" thing.

About all I know of them is that some time in the 90's they decided not to bug a Chinese embassy, Training some PNG troops to kill off an independance movement in West Papua and some work with MI6 to kill some people in South East Asia. I know I sound like a nut but I am sure that they could hear a pin drop in a large amount of the populations houses. Probably reading this. *Puts on tin hat*

Strangly, I would love to work for them...

- ♫.i.b.y.v.n.t.h.♫
http://www.nocleanfeed.com/

Most countries that totseans live in have them - the secret services, that have more powers than anyone, and that are in no way controlled by the society (except for the whistleblowers cases - but that's an exception rather than the rule).

Various human rights watch groups are often useless against secret services either - they often act in a way that leaves you with no proof, or find ways to discredit you if you do find out something.

Their existence makes all the talks about democracy, constitution, laws - absolete. What's the use of law, when there is a group of people that doesn't fall under it, even in theory?

It's also clear, that there is no way to get rid of the secret services - if one country gets rid of them and another doesn't, the one that doesn't get put at great risk due to their now knowing anything about the opposition, while their opposition knows about everything.



So, totse. What are your thoughts on the matter? What are your solutions?

In the US, by Secret Services I assume you're not referring to THE Secret Service correct? What agency would fall under "secret" here?

In the US, by Secret Services I assume you're not referring to THE Secret Service correct? What agency would fall under "secret" here?

You tell me, I'm not American.

You tell me, I'm not American.

God damn foreigners using the internet ;) I'm not sure what would fall under a secret service to your definition. Different arms of the government conduct secret operations like Delta or the CIA's Special Activities Division.

God damn foreigners using the internet ;) I'm not sure what would fall under a secret service to your definition. Different arms of the government conduct secret operations like Delta or the CIA's Special Activities Division.

Do those interact with each other, classify their activities, have the authority to work in their own country and are not accountable to the public (in the form of, say, the Congress)? Then I'm talking about them. With enough professionalism, they can influence a lot of the nation's politics, being able to shift the blame to others and discredit anyone who tries to bring their activities to light.