I've realized the only reason I want to believe is so I don't end up in Hell, or something.

But I'd probably end up in Hell anyway, as that shouldn't be my main reason for believing in God.

It's like they're scaring us to believe.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?

I just... I just don't know.

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.

If you believe out of fear you're wasting your time.

If you believe out of fear you're wasting your time.

Thanks for reading my post.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?
.

the thing is Jesus didnt have to die for us though. He never sinned. He came here out of love for us to make a way for us to not go to hell. we obviously have the better part of the deal. He could have sat next to the Father and let everyone die and go to hell but He didnt

and i doubt there are many things worse than what Jesus went through

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?


Jesus died in order that sinning humans can be forgiven in their earthly lives and be worthy of resurrection. The 2nd most powerful being in the universe humble himself, took the form of a human then was torture, ridiculed and killed like a criminal when all he had to do was ask God for help and he woulda beamed him the shit outta there. He didn't even take the spiked wine to dull his senses.




Don't believe some Bigot priest who tells you his opinion over what the Bible says. Some hypocrite who follows a believe system that indoctrinated pagan worship and twist the words of the Bible even ignoring parts. It really pisses me off when for example a Christian practices Idolatry, bowing down to a statue of Mary of something. Open your eyes.

/rant

Hell does exist anyways.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?


Jesus died in order that sinning humans can be forgiven in their earthly lives and be worthy of resurrection. The 2nd most powerful being in the universe humble himself, took the form of a human then was torture, ridiculed and killed like a criminal when all he had to do was ask God for help and he woulda beamed him the shit outta there. He didn't even take the spiked wine to dull his senses.




Don't believe some Bigot priest who tells you his opinion over what the Bible says. Some hypocrite who follows a believe system that indoctrinated pagan worship and twist the words of the Bible even ignoring parts. It really pisses me off when for example a Christian practices Idolatry, bowing down to a statue of Mary of something. Open your eyes.

/rant

Hell does exist anyways. Show me from the Bible that it does and I'll show you that it doesn't.

I've realized the only reason I want to believe is so I don't end up in Hell, or something.

But I'd probably end up in Hell anyway, as that shouldn't be my main reason for believing in God.

It's like they're scaring us to believe.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?

I just... I just don't know.

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.

New King James Version (NKJV)
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
1 John 4:17-19

Fear is a tool that allows those who use it to gain control over others! The bible seems stupid to you possibly because it has been twisted and turned to suit the fearmongers purposes? It would be easy to present to you many theologically sound arguments from the bible that disprove hell. For example:

American Standard Version (ASV)
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-6

But really simple common sense should tell you if your body is dead there are no more nerves alive to feel anything so the supposed torments of hell are obviously not literal. Read the bible for yourself. Work it out without the 'guidance' of those with vested interests. Seeking you may find that "the light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not comprehended it"(John 1:5). Those whose minds are darkened by their errors do not understand the message of the bible, it is hidden to them.

"This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."(1John 1:5) "For the law was given through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ" (John 1:17) "For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but that the world might be saved through him." (John 3:17) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."(Romans 8:1-3) "God is Spirit and those who would worship him must worship in spirit and in truth"(John 4:24) "And this is his commandment that we should believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ and love one another, as he gave commandment. Now he who keeps his commandments abides in him and, and he abides in us, by the Spirit ..(1John 3:23-24) "7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."(1John 4:7-9) "12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."(John4:12) "17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."(1John4:17-18)

I've realized the only reason I want to believe is so I don't end up in Hell, or something.

But I'd probably end up in Hell anyway, as that shouldn't be my main reason for believing in God.

It's like they're scaring us to believe.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?

I just... I just don't know.

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.

You almost answer your question yourself in the first 2 lines, but then I noticed it seems you actually believe some of the things in the bible. I mean, if you DO believe there was a man named Jesus, that was the messiah and came here to die for your sins and ask for forgiveness all the damn time...well, these seem to be the 2 biggest requirements for getting into heaven, from what I hear. So even if you're just doing it to stay out of hell, as long as you truly believe what Jesus was and ask for forgiveness for your sins, then you're good to go.

On a sidenote, I will be entering the land of snow bunnies and vodka after I die, I belieeeve in the great drunken snow bunny king!

pascal's wager

Well shit if you believe in Hell you believe in God anyways right? Besides according to Christianity If you dont believe in God your going to hell anyways

I've realized the only reason I want to believe is so I don't end up in Hell, or something.

But I'd probably end up in Hell anyway, as that shouldn't be my main reason for believing in God.

It's like they're scaring us to believe.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?

I just... I just don't know.

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.

hell and jesus are both bullshit..
How could you believe such retardedness?

hell and jesus are both bullshit..
How could you believe such retardedness?

Does anyone actually read posts on this forum anymore? Or do we all just post mindless crap that has something vaguely to do with the thread title.

I know how you feel man. Ive tried to give Christianity a chance, but if im honest with myself.....at the end of the day, Im only believing out of fear. Its simply a belief system that is foreign and doesn't work for me.

I do have a bible i keep around and open from time to time. Ironically i opened to a page last night where Jesus had Dinner with a Bunch of sinners/killers, and someone asked him why he choose to dine with such people. His response basically stated he came to earth for those people cause they are the ones who need to change their ways. He didnt need to bother with the righteous.

Anyway, just try to be a good person. To quote some zen for ya.

When the sun shines through stained glass it comes out in many different colors. Religion is much the same way, All different yet illuminated by the same light

If you're questioning/indecisive about christianity, then that pretty much defeats the purpose of it in the first place.

Well here's how I view christianity:

God is not a real being, yet this being can see the point of view of every living thing in the world, whether they have eyes or not. Yes, that being that it is not real, it can not affect the world with a positive change.

However Jesus/es was/is real. Now, they may not be able to see from as many views as god, but if they tried to do that, they would end up as dust and a waste of time, however not space, as they would still be a lesson to the next would be jesus.

Basically you could acquire as many point of views as you want, but would it be worth the time to take a break and help someone/someones with these points of view? If you think so, after you "try" to help them, is there real evidence you can present to yourself that you affected them in a positive way? If not, and there Is no evidence of you affecting them in a negative way(It could happen, you must pop your ego sometimes), then you should try to think about their point of view on life, using what you already know about them.


Simplest: Do you want to be God, Jesus, someone who is lower than jesus but still affects the world in a positive way, someone who affects the world in neither a positive or negative way, or someone who affects the world in a negative way?

Here's a clue, 2 of the kinds of people I listed aren't real. Also, sometimes it's better to see the world from a really unique kind of view. Try to picture your desktop from the view of an ant, one that is looking at you.

Understand?

If not, where did you place this imaginary ant? Can you really reach an answer if you ask yourself why you placed it there?

I've realized the only reason I want to believe is so I don't end up in Hell, or something.

But I'd probably end up in Hell anyway, as that shouldn't be my main reason for believing in God.

It's like they're scaring us to believe.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?

I just... I just don't know.

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.


just remember "on the day that you die, you dont have to wake up."

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.

This is the long con, isn't it?

Some things may be worse than death, but who honestly knows what happens after death?

Why is it so hard to believe, we cease to be?

You already realize the only reason you follow the faith is b/c you don't want something bad to happen to your soul. You already realize that if that is your only reason, and the shit is true, hell is your destiny anyway.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

That is liberating. It is out of your hands, so enjoy the time you have here on earth, enjoy the time YOU KNOW exists HERE AND NOW, and let whatever cards fall where they may.

Me personally, if I meet God when I die and he asks me "Why didn't you believe", I will list the numerous logical problems his book and his existence are subject to.

stop opening threads that will allow masero to preach her bullshit. lol
and when you die. you go where you want to go. you are the decider.

I've realized the only reason I want to believe is so I don't end up in Hell, or something.

But I'd probably end up in Hell anyway, as that shouldn't be my main reason for believing in God.

It's like they're scaring us to believe.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?

I just... I just don't know.

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.

Please don't worry about these kinds of things. You don't go around reading Greek mythology and then fear ending up in Hades, nor do you fear the sun stopping from shining if you don't sacrifice human blood to Huitzilopotchli.

You have to understand that, even though some of the Bible teaches love and fraternity, it is still mythology. In fact, the only reason we don't call things like Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism mythology, pure mythology, is because so many people believe in it.

Don't take that the wrong way either; just because many people believe something doesn't make it right. In Copernicus' time, only about a half dozen people in the world understood the theory of heliocentricity, and he was prevented from publishing his work until his death because the Catholic Church would have had the Inquisition on his ass at a moment's whim.

I've realized the only reason I want to believe is so I don't end up in Hell, or something.

But I'd probably end up in Hell anyway, as that shouldn't be my main reason for believing in God.

It's like they're scaring us to believe.

I guess I could look at it, like, Jesus died for our sins. We should love him for that, and that's what makes us believe.

But... I thought about it. So what if he died? Yes, it was horrible, but I've known of people who have had FAR worse pains than being crucified on the cross. Should I not respect those people more?

I just... I just don't know.

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.

If you don't believe it, why are you afraid of hell? The Bible is provably false.

Jesus died in order that sinning humans can be forgiven in their earthly lives and be worthy of resurrection. The 2nd most powerful being in the universe humble himself, took the form of a human then was torture, ridiculed and killed like a criminal when all he had to do was ask God for help and he woulda beamed him the shit outta there. He didn't even take the spiked wine to dull his senses.


.

No! Jesus wanted to get the hell out of there... but Judas poisoned him and his disciples with a deadly neurotoxin,
causing Jesus to have a temporary break from his connection to the Lord. The Lord couldn't help him because he couldn't find him. Jesus became incredibly weak after the beatings and he couldn't call for his alien spacecraft anymore... and died. The Lord then got super angry, went back in time, and caused a huge flooding to wipe away all the humans who gave birth to these bastards who killed Jesus... but little did he realize that was the main reason Jesus died; because God intervened.


So God killed himself....


The End

^^ Douchebaggery at its finest

The OP was asking for serious opinions concerning her dilemma, not some bullshit story.

No! Jesus wanted to get the hell out of there... but Judas poisoned him and his disciples with a deadly neurotoxin,
causing Jesus to have a temporary break from his connection to the Lord. The Lord couldn't help him because he couldn't find him. Jesus became incredibly weak after the beatings and he couldn't call for his alien spacecraft anymore... and died. The Lord then got super angry, went back in time, and caused a huge flooding to wipe away all the humans who gave birth to these bastards who killed Jesus... but little did he realize that was the main reason Jesus died; because God intervened.


So God killed himself....


The End

I'm fairly sure that was a humorous post although I can't tell forsure without a tone of voice or expression....so source?

Ever wanted to view planet Earth as an order?

If you can picture "God" as many points of views, and you could hang out with one of those views, should that view be broken?


If you still can't comprehend, try drawing a line through a circle. This line can not be defined, therefore it may go on forever. If you rotated this line, how many degrees can you possibly rotate it without making the same line?



The answer is: You just wasted time trying to define this line.

the thing is Jesus didnt have to die for us though. He never sinned. He came here out of love for us to make a way for us to not go to hell. we obviously have the better part of the deal. He could have sat next to the Father and let everyone die and go to hell but He didnt

and i doubt there are many things worse than what Jesus went through

I will deal with your second point first by listing a couple things worse than what happened to Jesus: The woman in Poland who was trapped in her basement for 29 years by her father and routinely raped. The man fathered 7 children with his daughter, forcing them to be trapped in the basement as well on threat of death. Being entombed in your basement and raped by your father, then having your children's lives threatened for almost 3 decades... The victims of Wayne Gacy (I think it was him; one of the American cannibals), who would strip them of their skin, force them to eat parts of themselves, eat parts himself, and various other types of mutilation for weeks... I'll stop there, as a trend is forming. Crimes like this happen all of the world every year.

And the thing with omnipotence is that he could have done it differently if he was real. He could have gotten around his own rule. Unless he isn't omnipotent. Etc. That's an old line of thought.

^^ Douchebaggery at its finest

The OP was asking for serious opinions concerning her dilemma, not some bullshit story.

You want to hear some bullshit story? Then read the fucking Bible

I'm fairly sure that was a humorous post although I can't tell forsure without a tone of voice or expression....so source?

Guess what else was a humorous story, but people can't tell because there is no pictures, tone of voice or expression... YOU GUESSED IT ... the Bible

WOW I think you might be right, just because you keep saying it over and over! Let me try:

The Bible is true
The Bible is divinely inspired
The Bible is accurate

/sarcasm

You see repeating it over and over doesn't make you right it makes you look like a retard. Please explain why you think the Bible is a bullshit storybook. See this is how the "intelligent" forums work. Go to SG if you want to make jokes and post things without backing it up.

I just... I just don't know.

The Bible seems so stupid, but... If I don't believe, and follow what it says, I'm afraid something terrible will happen to me after I die.

You fall into a trap that a lot of people subject themselves to. It's not the bible, and it's not some priest telling you how to live your life. The trap you put yourself in, is asking others to decide for you what to believe. So you believe that the bible seems stupid, well instead of asking us what you should believe, why not study it for yourself? What you choose to believe will follow with you all of your life, it is most definitely worth researching.

If you think that you want to believe in Christianity you should compare it to other religions and decide for yourself what seems most logical. If none of them seem logical you'll probably end up being an agnostic or an atheist. If you find one you like, that seems valid, that’s great.

On the topic of Christianity, there are a few things I suggest you look up before you make that decision, they are:
-Inconsistencies in the Bible.
-The Council of Nicene.
-Evolution vs. Creationism.
-Pascal’s Wager.
-Parallels between the story of Christ and Pagan myths.
-The omnipotence paradox.
Study these things careful and with patience, you will not regret doing so. The process itself will help you greatly when you have to make big decisions in the future.
I’ll leave you with a quote by the Greek philosopher Epicurus.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

^^ Good post, OP listen to him.

And if you want some more homework try to find the true Christian religion. Post it here when your done :P

True Christians:
-Follow the Bible
(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) (1 Thessalonians 2:13) (John 17:17)

-Worship only God (Matthew 4:10) Includes idols and false religion

-Love amongst selfs (John 13:35) (1 John 3:10-12; 4:20, 21)

-Jesus (Acts 4:12) (John 3:36.)

-Political affiliations (John 18:36) (Acts 5:29) (Mark 12:17)

I dunno something to think about if your going to align yourself with another domination. And not to nit pick but that small list cancels out Catholicism along with many other mainstream religions as having favor from God.

I'm fairly sure that was a humorous post although I can't tell forsure without a tone of voice or expression....so source?

david icke?

I will deal with your second point first by listing a couple things worse than what happened to Jesus: The woman in Poland who was trapped in her basement for 29 years by her father and routinely raped. The man fathered 7 children with his daughter, forcing them to be trapped in the basement as well on threat of death. Being entombed in your basement and raped by your father, then having your children's lives threatened for almost 3 decades... The victims of Wayne Gacy (I think it was him; one of the American cannibals), who would strip them of their skin, force them to eat parts of themselves, eat parts himself, and various other types of mutilation for weeks... I'll stop there, as a trend is forming. Crimes like this happen all of the world every year.

And the thing with omnipotence is that he could have done it differently if he was real. He could have gotten around his own rule. Unless he isn't omnipotent. Etc. That's an old line of thought.

For sure those people endured a tragic amount of pain, and for sure other people have endured worse, that is the downfall of our world, and its because of shit like that that we have organisations, charities, movements, religions and people like jesus trying to work to make that better.

I think you missed the point because (im sure this is debatable) he sacraficed himself. The cases you have presented are not self- sacrifice.

Anyway to the OP- if you are confused about christianity just realise that you dont have to be a christian to embrace jesus; i would say that in many ways christians have tarnished him and taken him out of context- after all jesus was a jew and although im sure his intentions where to revolutionise the world, he just wanted internal change within judaism, not a sect splitting away from it.

Besides that many of jesus teachings, particulary on the spirit soul have been lost including the four gnostic gospels along with other biblical chapters, not to mention the mistranslations, misinterpretations and edits.

For fucks sake theres like 20 years of his life unkown to most christians; to me that is scary.

You want to hear some bullshit story? Then read the fucking Bible

I'm an atheist. If you'd read my earlier post you would have noticed. :p

I'm an atheist. If you'd read my earlier post you would have noticed. :p

touche'

david icke?


What the shit are you talking about?

Well shit if you believe in Hell you believe in God anyways right? Besides according to Christianity If you dont believe in God your going to hell anyways

You must believe in Jesus!
You must believe in Jesus!
You must believe in Jesus!

What the shit are you talking about?

David icke?

^^ If I didn't get it the first time why would I get it again?

Who the fuck is David Icke.

^^ If I didn't get it the first time why would I get it again?

Who the fuck is David Icke.

what the fuck is google?

what the fuck is google?

What the fuck is a pretentious cryptic asshat?

*pretentious cryptic asshat*

fixed

Did you JUST "I know you are but what am I", me?

How serious should we take you?

Did you JUST "I know you are but what am I", me?

How serious should we take you?

you should take me as seriously as you please.

same as any other member or totse; if that is what you mean by "we"