here's something for you to think about. over the past couple decades cars sold in america have been getting bloated.

the current model civic is bigger than an early nineties accord.

the current camry is as big as a buick park avenue

it seems no one makes a small (read: resonably sized for anyone who doesnt haul 1000lbs of materials/equipment daily) pickup anymore

and now audi is advertising the a4 as the biggest car in its class. part of the reason i loved my 96 a4 soo much was because it was a pretty small car.

Doesnt the current camry have like, 250 hp or something outrageous like that? And what's with the Altima? Do you really need 300 hp in a FWD family car? Also, I lulzed when I read the challengers curb weight.

here's something for you to think about. over the past couple decades cars sold in america have been getting bloated.

the current model civic is bigger than an early nineties accord.

the current camry is as big as a buick park avenue

it seems no one makes a small (read: resonably sized for anyone who doesnt haul 1000lbs of materials/equipment daily) pickup anymore

and now audi is advertising the a4 as the biggest car in its class. part of the reason i loved my 96 a4 soo much was because it was a pretty small car.

Crumple zones cost volume, mate. America has also gotten richer over th past decades or have expected more, on average. Thus, it makes perfect sense that you would see the average car size become larger.

Just for once, I'd like to see a sporty car made by GM that has either a 1.0 (3-pot fuck yea!) or 1.4 Ecotec in it. The Cruze is coming to market soon with the turbocharged 1.4 Ecotec, so that's one step closer. It's FWD only, so I pray that it will have a decent suspension. I also hope they can shake off their financial troubles to actually deliver these to market. It doesn't matter that they have the Volt if they can make the Cruze very cheaply. The customer isn't going to care when it gets around 40 mpg. Unfortunately it won't have and independent rear, but a 5 or 6 speed with fair enough handling and a price around $10-12k would make me happy. It's just a damn shame they won't sell the diesel engine Stateside.

As much as I love driving big boats, I love small ones more. Especially with 8-12 cylinders!

Really though, I can't fucking wait until we have more choices in small cars. I really want to see sensible sized sedans offered with smaller engines now that a 1.0-2.0L car can be made without being underpowered. I mean really, nowadays a manufacturer can produce an engine that makes double the numbers of an old 'economy' OR 'performance' engine.... with even less displacement.

I really want to see more 'K' class cars (600-1000cc I believe) for the super economy market, and a bunch of forced induction sub 2L vehicles for small sports and midsize economy cars. Throw in a bunch of turbodiesels and small displacement 6's and 8's for the bigger cars and trucks...... Of course I still want 'uneconomical' and powerful cars to be made.... but VARIETY please!

I REALLY want to see a throwback to the tiny 2 door roadsters of a bygone age, but with modern, powerful engines. I would be ALL over that. Hell, if I could simply kick-start a car manufacturing plant, I would totally go renaissance on small, big, efficient, sporty... fuck it... ALL types of cars!

I REALLY want to see a throwback to the tiny 2 door roadsters of a bygone age, but with modern, powerful engines. I would be ALL over that. Hell, if I could simply kick-start a car manufacturing plant, I would totally go renaissance on small, big, efficient, sporty... fuck it... ALL types of cars!

See: westfield + more funding

I really want to see more 'K' class cars (600-1000cc

Do want!
http://br.geocities.com/capri7003/az1.jpghttp://www.japankcars.com/images/pearl1.jpg

What wonderous things more modern technology could do for these tiny cars.

Daihatsu Max? 360cc of pure two stroke twin cylinder power!

This is actually my 'dream car'
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Suzuki_Fronte_Coupe_001.JPG

See: westfield + more funding

There are plenty of those Lotus 7 clones out there with people putting their own engine into. Although I think they become a bit unweildly after about 300bhp. With 300bhp in one of those, you wouldn't be complaining though.

Do want!
http://br.geocities.com/capri7003/az1.jpghttp://www.japankcars.com/images/pearl1.jpg

What wonderous things more modern technology could do for these tiny cars.

When I first saw this post I wrote "Oh my god, you like Kei cars? ROFLMAO" (verbatim) but just now I remembered that there are a couple of vehicles which I have to admit I like/think could be pretty cool which could almost be Kei cars - and one of them actually IS a Kei car - so now I am eating humble pie.

What kind of faggot wants to drive a small car? Anyway, what about these:
http://www.pinklily.com.au/images/media/smartcar.jpg

What kind of faggot wants to drive a small car? Anyway, what about these:
http://www.pinklily.com.au/images/media/smartcar.jpg

The sort of faggot that's comfortable with himself I suppose.
Here's my daily wagon:

http://i26.tinypic.com/wmcitl.jpg

What a beast! 85mpg!

I used to have a 106. Holy shit it had the worst clutch I've ever used. Is yours the same?
Loads of travel from the floor upwards with no reaction, then about an inch from the top of the travel the clutch is suddenly fully engaged and you have to fight to stop it stalling?
I find that with most French cars actually.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/gallery/albums/album02/kayoticsera.jpg

Small is good.

Goes halfway or more alright before it engages, but it's a very light clutch. Plenty of range though, of it engaging. The clutch rattles though, or at least, it sounds like the clutch. That's a different matter though.

Daihatsu Max? 360cc of pure two stroke twin cylinder power!

This is actually my 'dream car'
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Suzuki_Fronte_Coupe_001.JPG

I love it!

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/gallery/albums/album02/kayoticsera.jpg

Small is good.

I think those lambo style doors are just a horrible idea.

I think those lambo style doors are just a horrible idea.

those are gullwing doors in the picture like the 300 sl 'gullwing' from the 50s and the DeLorean.

this is what the world needs:
http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/uploads/2007/AZ_1_09.JPG
mazda autozam az-1. gullwinged mid-engined kei car.

tightening safety regulations have added alot to the weight of cars. along with pedestrian impact requirements, fitting all sorts of airbags, sound insulation, emissions systems, and all that electronic wizardry.

the lotus seven is a lucky car to be produced today, but in an accident it'll crush like an aluminum can, thus there's no chance for mass production, just a kit car, with the option to be pre-assembled.

yeah the new a4 is pretty massive now, its 1.3" shorter than the previous gen a6!! but it gained very minimal weight, i think like 50 lbs, with the trade off of the motor being further back on the front axle. and the new 2.0t has chain timing! no more laborious timing belt jobs, and the oil filter is easy access on top of the motor, and unlike the e90/e92 3-series, you get a dipstick!

those are gullwing doors in the picture like the 300 sl 'gullwing' from the 50s and the DeLorean.

this is what the world needs:
http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/uploads/2007/AZ_1_09.JPG
mazda autozam az-1. gullwinged mid-engined kei car.

tightening safety regulations have added alot to the weight of cars. along with pedestrian impact requirements, fitting all sorts of airbags, sound insulation, emissions systems, and all that electronic wizardry.

the lotus seven is a lucky car to be produced today, but in an accident it'll crush like an aluminum can, thus there's no chance for mass production, just a kit car, with the option to be pre-assembled.

yeah the new a4 is pretty massive now, its 1.3" shorter than the previous gen a6!! but it gained very minimal weight, i think like 50 lbs, with the trade off of the motor being further back on the front axle. and the new 2.0t has chain timing! no more laborious timing belt jobs, and the oil filter is easy access on top of the motor, and unlike the e90/e92 3-series, you get a dipstick!
I still think horizontal doors are safer than ones that have to go vertical.

I still think horizontal doors are safer than ones that have to go vertical.

i agree, saw a wreck on the internet of a murcilago flipping at speed and burning down, killing both passengers, if the doors were conventional, then they would have been able to get out of the car.

still, gullwings look pretty. saw a 300 sl in sliver with a red interior at a car show. beautiful.
1954-1962 first car with fuel injection, 161 mph (fastest car of its time in '54!! but $11k in its day)
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-mno/Mercedes-Benz-300-SL-Coupe-FA-DO-1024x768.jpg

ain't it so prettttty?

i agree, saw a wreck on the internet of a murcilago flipping at speed and burning down, killing both passengers, if the doors were conventional, then they would have been able to get out of the car.

still, gullwings look pretty. saw a 300 sl in sliver with a red interior at a car show. beautiful.
1954-1962 first car with fuel injection, 161 mph (fastest car of its time in '54!! but $11k in its day)
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-mno/Mercedes-Benz-300-SL-Coupe-FA-DO-1024x768.jpg

ain't it so prettttty?

Fucking asshole, you owe me a new pair of pants.

unlike the e90/e92 3-series, you get a dipstick!

Who needs a dipstick if the computer tells you how much and how good your oil is?

Daihatsu Max? 360cc of pure two stroke twin cylinder power!

This is actually my 'dream car'
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Suzuki_Fronte_Coupe_001.JPG

not everyone can dream big i guess.

http://chevythunder.com/fuel%20injection%20history.htm

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/06/vintage-tech-the-granddaddy-of-efi/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_injection

Wikipedia has done something well for a change. Couldn't get a better condesnsed history than that. I would like to read the entire history of fuel injection, if it were a book or something, preferably with some colour plates included - but that's just me. I don't know how many other people would read a book like that and enjoy it.

Who needs a dipstick if the computer tells you how much and how good your oil is?

until gunk / sludge is built up on the oil level sensor, and you dont know when it runs dry, until its too late.

the method to check the oil when the sensor malfunctions is to drain the oil out, and measure it from there. quite easy compared to a dipstick ain't it?

sure it might be fine for the first 30k-50k, but what about after that? the longevity of these systems scares me.

Fucking asshole, you owe me a new pair of pants.

think that picture is pretty, i got to see it in person. WoW!! the red leather really sets it off. its like the slr of its day, but not dumbed down. just raw.

think that picture is pretty, i got to see it in person. WoW!! the red leather really sets it off. its like the slr of its day, but not dumbed down. just raw.

Red leather is too gaudy, in my opinion. Black seems so much more subtle.

Red leather is too gaudy, in my opinion. Black seems so much more subtle.

I agree in the case of the Spyker C8 for example, but sometimes it works.

Red leather is too gaudy, in my opinion. Black seems so much more subtle.

http://www.finecars.cc/typo3temp/GB/004a2c0e42.jpg

i think it pulls it off nicely, in a classic 50's sort of way (1954-1962 is when they were made). you could even get matching leather suitcases to fit in the little place behind the seats, they're made so they dont obstruct your view. this was a race car made for the street. it costed $11k in 1954! the 1954 vette was $2776.

until gunk / sludge is built up on the oil level sensor, and you dont know when it runs dry, until its too late.

the method to check the oil when the sensor malfunctions is to drain the oil out, and measure it from there. quite easy compared to a dipstick ain't it?

sure it might be fine for the first 30k-50k, but what about after that? the longevity of these systems scares me.

Except test mules have done 300k without issues...

Except test mules have done 300k without issues...

test mules! they dont always find sludge problems that affect cars on test mules. they didnt know the 335i without the sport package's extra oil cooler would overheat in 5-10 min on a track? test mules don't always find everything thats wrong... and who knows if the car was ragged on, and/or shut off hot, those twin turbos are pretty small. they had test mules for the e46, and it still had subframe issues. test mules cant be representative of the entire population, like the early e46 m3, there were many who lost their motor, some even went through a couple of them. http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm

test mules! they dont always find sludge problems that affect cars on test mules. they didnt know the 335i without the sport package's extra oil cooler would overheat in 5-10 min on a track? test mules don't always find everything thats wrong... and who knows if the car was ragged on, and/or shut off hot, those twin turbos are pretty small. they had test mules for the e46, and it still had subframe issues. test mules cant be representative of the entire population, like the early e46 m3, there were many who lost their motor, some even went through a couple of them. http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm

I say test mules because (practically) no E92 or e90 has done 300k haha

I say test mules because (practically) no E92 or e90 has done 300k haha

yeah, not yet, and the 335i was introduced not too long ago either, i wonder how they're going to hold up, and can't wait to see some out of warranty replace their turbo with a single unit, that thing is begging for a gt42r or gt45r turbo. hell they're already making almost 400rwhp with a chip and exhaust.

http://www.classicrallies.com/img/car_for_sale/cfs_765_0_big.jpg

i'm still breathtaken by this thing, and for all my carpocalypse needs it has a 34.3 us gal tank! thats about twice as much as my audi.

MOAR!1
http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre4/mercedes/300/sl/1955_mercedes_300_sl_gullwing_03_m.jpg
http://www.vintagemotorssarasota.com/Car_pages/Mercedes/55Benz300SL_gullwing/DSC00428.JPG
http://www.kenrockwell.com/mercedes/starfest-2006/images/02/DSC_3696-300sl-golf.jpg
http://www.kenrockwell.com/mercedes/starfest-2006/images/02/DSC_3702-gullwing-interior.jpg
http://www.vintagemotorssarasota.com/Car_pages/Mercedes/55Benz300SL_gullwing/DSC00388.JPG


heh, the original fitted luggage. the one with the plaid seats is pretty cool. the golf bag holder was oem equipment. this car had no a/c and the windows didn't roll down. so i'd understand why they wouldnt want black leather.

http://www.finecars.cc/typo3temp/GB/004a2c0e42.jpg

i think it pulls it off nicely, in a classic 50's sort of way (1954-1962 is when they were made). you could even get matching leather suitcases to fit in the little place behind the seats, they're made so they dont obstruct your view. this was a race car made for the street. it costed $11k in 1954! the 1954 vette was $2776.

I've seen em in the flesh before and always been impartial, but right now the more I open thumbnails the more I am liking the 300SL. $11,000 in 1954 is something like $90,000 now if adjusted for inflation. Pretty cheap actually, shows how much sports cars have inflated on top of monetary inflation. Especially the 'vette. $2774 in 1954 is $21,000 nowadays. If you could buy a new Corvette for $21,000 these days...

I don't think it's just American cars that are (or were - more later) getting fatter.

The current generation Polo is bigger than the Mark 1 Golf, for example. And the new European Mondeo is HUGE. People are right about it being because of safety and equipment expectations.

Though not all cars are getting heavier - when Jaguar released the Mark 3 XJ it used aluminium for the monocoque (which interestingly had some sections bonded together rather than welded) which reduced its weight by about 40%, so in total the V6 models weigh about 1,500kgs (which is bloody light for a car of that size).

The problem is that you can cut weight by using exotic materials, but that pushes up the price. So everyday cars are (currently) still made from steel, and only your Jags, Audi A8s etc are made from ally. The new Mazda 2 and Ford Fiesta (on the DE platform) both use aluminium and ultra-high-strength steel to reduce weight (or more rightly, remain at the same weight but with better safety and equipment levels), and they are both at the cheaper end of the scale; perhaps in the next five years cars will have stopped putting on weight at all.

I was thinking about motorcycle engines the other day - my friend's GSXR has a 600cc engine and has a dry weight of around 160kgs... that engine produces (or so he says, I don't know myself) around 100 horses - surely mated to an appropriate gearbox, a motorcycle engine (or a car engine using motorcycle technology) could easily match the performance of current sub 2-litre engines, with a massive saving on weight? I mean, we have little engines in cars, the Smart 42 for example, but that piece of shit can only carry two passengers (and no luggage) and even with a turbocharger only manages to generate 50hp.

That said, I'm not sure about the reliability of a tiny engine revving its nuts off to push 1.5 tonnes of steel (or aluminium) around - and perhaps the way that the power is delivered wouldn't be suitable for a family car, I know I wouldn't want to be sat all day at 70mph with the engine screaming at 10,000 rpm.

^ That is one of the reasons I'm so pissed off that we don't have small engined alternatives. Motorcycle engines especially are making big numbers now, and there is no reason that they couldn't be implemented. I'm not saying that a 600cc engine would have to push tons, but a 900-1400cc engine actually could.... the zx-14 makes 200hp in stock trim (granted it is practically a car engine), and the 1000cc class is hovering around 150. Granted, the engine would have to be tuned and geared appropriately, as you're right about power delivery being awkward. The gsxr engine especially is suited more for racing and makes lousy torque and has a twitchy top end. Still, a purpose-built 600cc engine could easily power a small car, and with forced induction it could make for a quick small car or a not-so-small car. A 1000cc engine could power medium size cars or small sports cars. The relatively low torque numbers would be the biggest downside.

Innovation would be good. How about inline 6 small engines? I'm pretty sure that would help out with torque and low-rpm delivery (don't crucify me if I'm wrong, I'm not a tech person). How about small turbodiesels? A 1L diesel for small trucks and light vans, maybe for midsize cars.... utility stuff that doesn't need a lot of speed but needs low end grunt for practical use? Even just small forced induction engines would be capable of powering lots of things, a 1-1.5L engine can make 200-300+hp if it is tuned and built right.... you could go higher but you have to consider streetability.

Diesels won't catch on in the U.S. because the oil companies have run the price of diesel through the roof to gouge the trucking industry. Regardless of mileage, nobody is going to pay $1.50 more for their fuel than they have to. Doesn't even matter if they come out ahead in the long run, all people will see is the price on the credit card receipt.

yeah, not yet, and the 335i was introduced not too long ago either, i wonder how they're going to hold up, and can't wait to see some out of warranty replace their turbo with a single unit, that thing is begging for a gt42r or gt45r turbo. hell they're already making almost 400rwhp with a chip and exhaust.

This is true, throw 5k at a 335I and you've got a M3 killer.

This is true, throw 5k at a 335I and you've got a M3 killer.

but only the m-series get a LSD... and damn does the m3 coupe look clean in white. 335 makes good torque low down, and the m3 makes those extra high rev's, two different driving experiences. i'm ready to see how good the m3 is gonna be in alms, the old m3 gt-r was pretty killer, until they didnt bring any over with the v-8 (see the e46 m3 gt-r that was sold/ran in europe)

No way! Pretty much every car here, even base models, come with LSDs stock.

but only the m-series get a LSD... and damn does the m3 coupe look clean in white. 335 makes good torque low down, and the m3 makes those extra high rev's, two different driving experiences. i'm ready to see how good the m3 is gonna be in alms, the old m3 gt-r was pretty killer, until they didnt bring any over with the v-8 (see the e46 m3 gt-r that was sold/ran in europe)

The 335 doesn't have an LSD per say, rather an LSD-like feature in traction control that works almost as best.

The 335 doesn't have an LSD per say, rather an LSD-like feature in traction control that works almost as best.

electronic systems can never be as good as mechanical systems. electronic systems are reactive, and it uses braking on individual wheels.

well, heres a somewhat relevant video, shows how good a mechanical awd system vs reactive awd systems (i.e. audi's torsen vs the rest):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx2mgPw33r4

or this classic audi commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6WYTSTRUR8

electronic systems can never be as good as mechanical systems. electronic systems are reactive, and it uses braking on individual wheels.

well, heres a somewhat relevant video, shows how good a mechanical awd system vs reactive awd systems (i.e. audi's torsen vs the rest):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx2mgPw33r4

or this classic audi commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6WYTSTRUR8

Oh I know, I'm just saying the 335 can still perform decently out of corners and in a straight line.