Evaporating water is a bitch of a bitch, and heating it up to speed up the process would destroy the opiates.

Why not:

CWE the pills, take the water, basify it, extract with naphtha and evaporate?

Naphtha evaporates quicker than water but smells like ass.

Is codeine phosphate or freebase freely soluble in acetone?

hmm..

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2176214

Black Pope ever heard patience is a virtue. That means use water but Swim would recommend just enough water for the c- to dissolve then allow natural evaporation which will yield purer crystals and more potent.

Black Pope ever heard patience is a virtue. That means use water but Swim would recommend just enough water for the c- to dissolve then allow natural evaporation which will yield purer crystals and more potent.

and intelligence is not given.....

You know what really kills me? I was in Canada (Toronto) back in October and completely forgot to hit a pharmacy or two for the OTC codeine. I had fully intended to do so and even budgeted around $75 for it. Just completely forgot. I could kick myself in the ass. I wondered why I was leaving with so much money. I chalked it up to my buddy buying most of my drinks when we went to the strip club. And with it being a 5 hour drive just to the border, I don't see myself going back just for some codeine.

codeine sucks!!!! hydrocodone is more like it

Evaporating water is a bitch of a bitch, and heating it up to speed up the process would destroy the opiates.

Why not:

CWE the pills, take the water, basify it, extract with naphtha and evaporate?

Naphtha evaporates quicker than water but smells like ass.

Is codeine phosphate or freebase freely soluble in acetone?


You wouldn't be able to use acetone to extract the codiene, owing to the miscibility of the solvents...

Try chloroform.

:rolleyes:

Swim used to , many moons ago when he had .....issues....and cash, put his H into a spoon and boil it in a little water with vitamin c - this was to ensure any bacteria/crap (actually, i say crap, meaning alsorts of bits n pieces but apparently crap, in its real form, is found in abundance ....everywhere, slightly more so in lower educated/poorer/immigrant areas. It's a fact, look it up. Many persons do not wash their hands , sadly, and in some countries it is not even a thought that would cross their minds and as such faeces finds its way into many things you wouldn't want it too - :( - Anyone for Chinese?)

......anyway, that aside, ...to ensure the hit was as clean as it could be and in as shortest space of time, twas heated. Also a need to 'break-down' the gear - this was done by adding an acid to the freebase brown gear, thus turning it into a salt and thus water-soluble and thus providing an intravenous option. (Sad, bad days - starts off as a bit of fun and everyone thinks they can handle it, just a weekend thing but it gets everyone in the end, just a matter of time. Seriously, a bad avenue to turn down.)

....it never seemed to damage the opiate at all, he was constantly told that he would, quote, "...burn all the gear away" but he held cleanliness high in the grand scheme of things and it never seemed to make a bit of difference. The water was boiled for a minute or two, should've been five but that would've.....burnt all the gear away!

Yes, so that's my 2 ...pence, would seem its a little resiliant MoFo - Are all opiates supposed to be heat-sensitive? or just codeine in particular?:confused:


NB: Just for info, they now sell membrane filters for syringes that are supposed to remove all bacteria etc - sounds good to me, a tad expensive but what price an arm, leg, life......not to have shit in your body...:p

hmm..

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2176214



My thread differs in yours in using a CWE prior to a A/B because if you A/B pills with lye you get toxic APAP shit, and if you had to use sodium carb than you would need chloroform/methylene chloride, aka I'm fucking over that.

but you are aware that you will still be working with it, the cwe cuts the amount back but doesn't eliminate it...

not sure what you mean by toxic apap shit,
or where you came up with chloroform/methylene chloride

it just seems... why all that work to get a faster evap time when you could add one step to it to get a insufflatable product also...

but if you want to do this that's perfectly fine:)

A CWE clears the majority of the APAP out. If there is a minority it won't matter.

APAP reacts with NaOH to make some nasty ass shit that is even more hepatoxic than APAP is.

If one uses Na-carbonate, they can't use naphtha, they have to use chloroform/dcm.

Why would anyone want to shoot or snort codeine? I want a precurser. And if I did want to snort codeine I would just titrate w/ HCl..

APAP reacts with NaOH to make some nasty ass shit that is even more hepatoxic than APAP is.

If one uses Na-carbonate, they can't use naphtha, they have to use chloroform/dcm.



Why's that?

Not saying you're wrong, but why would one have to use CHCl3 / DCM ?


Would certainly have to agree about not shooting codiene though - it can cause all kinds of problems even when it's clean, never mind if some kitchen chemist has just been fucking around pulling it out of pills with solvents...

Why's that?

Not saying you're wrong, but why would one have to use CHCl3 / DCM ?


Would certainly have to agree about not shooting codiene though - it can cause all kinds of problems even when it's clean, never mind if some kitchen chemist has just been fucking around pulling it out of pills with solvents...

There is some rule about pka or pH I'm not sure the reason why I just know it can't be done.

There is some rule about pka or pH I'm not sure the reason why I just know it can't be done.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_chemistry.shtml#toc.11

Sorry, in a rush, cant type more. Scroll down to 11.3

Ok, I'm going to try this with 10 tablets of 10mg codiene. I have PO on wednesday so I will wait until thursday.

I will:

Crush codiene tablets
Add cold water
Place in freezer, don't let it freeze though!
Filter
Wait for temperature to return to normal. Add NaOH (watch for colour change like diamond x said)
Add naptha
Pull naptha
Evaporate



Does this sound good? Can anyone see anything wrong with it?

BTW can you use ammonia and extract with naptha instead of LYE? I know you can't do it for NA-carb..

A simple CWE, like the first 4 steps you gave, will leave some APAP in the water as it is still 'very slightly soluble' in cold water. That link I gave also says that ammonia doesn't react the same way, why not just use that? You can still use some NaOH to test for APAP, but I wouldn't put NaOH into a CWE that I intend to ingest. Just test a few mL for APAP and if it shows up clear then you're fine, but if it turns brown, you just saved the rest of the CWE that you didn't test.

Sorry if that didn't make too much sense, kinda hung over, low on sleep, etc.:(

A simple CWE, like the first 4 steps you gave, will leave some APAP in the water as it is still 'very slightly soluble' in cold water. That link I gave also says that ammonia doesn't react the same way, why not just use that? You can still use some NaOH to test for APAP, but I wouldn't put NaOH into a CWE that I intend to ingest. Just test a few mL for APAP and if it shows up clear then you're fine, but if it turns brown, you just saved the rest of the CWE that you didn't test.

Sorry if that didn't make too much sense, kinda hung over, low on sleep, etc.:(

Nope, that made sence and that is what I am going to do (test out a few mL of CWE with NaOH)

Why don't I use ammonia? I don't know if ammonia allows for extraction from naphtha. Like I said before, Sodium carbonate can't be used to extract an alkaloid with naphtha. I'm not sure if ammonia would work. Does anyone know?

Like I said before, Sodium carbonate can't be used to extract an alkaloid with naphtha.

you wouldn't happen to have any refs, or at least mind explaining that, would you?

and in my experiences, ammonia has been fine.

Nope, that made sence and that is what I am going to do (test out a few mL of CWE with NaOH)

Why don't I use ammonia? I don't know if ammonia allows for extraction from naphtha. Like I said before, Sodium carbonate can't be used to extract an alkaloid with naphtha. I'm not sure if ammonia would work. Does anyone know?

The BP of ammonia is about -33c, so any excess will evap out.

you wouldn't happen to have any refs, or at least mind explaining that, would you?

and in my experiences, ammonia has been fine.


Yup, far too general a statement - it may be true for codiene, I don't know. It's certainly not true for "alkaloids" in general...

I just know it is not true for several alkaloids, and if it was true for codeine someone would have brought it up. Why not use NA-carb over lye if it works? NaOH has 0 benefits over na-carb if na-carb can work in this situation.

There is a somewhat simple mathmatical formula to find this out.

There is a somewhat simple mathmatical formula to find this out.


1) To find what out?

2) What is it?

I don't know it if I did I would find it out I just remember reading somewhere why you cant use na-carb and naptha to extract DMT. You had to use either NaOH + naptha, or NA-carb + DCM/chloroform. There was a reason for it. I then read the same thing but for another compound. Sence then I have just felt that way toward all compounds. It may work for codiene but I doubt it.

I don't know it if I did I would find it out I just remember reading somewhere why you cant use na-carb and naptha to extract DMT. You had to use either NaOH + naptha, or NA-carb + DCM/chloroform. There was a reason for it. I then read the same thing but for another compound. Sence then I have just felt that way toward all compounds. It may work for codiene but I doubt it.

well then, you don't exactly expect me to believe you, right?

I mean, coming from the guy who said mdma wasn't a stimulant, not exactly just gonna take your word for it.

are you simply basing it off of this assumption?

Why not use NA-carb over lye if it works? NaOH has 0 benefits over na-carb if na-carb can work in this situation.just so you know, you could take the exact opposite of that argument and it would look exactly the same, so...

one I can think of off the top of my head is that you will be forming sodium acetaminophen oxide (unless you would like to show me that sodium carbonate will behave exactly the same way...)

but, happen to have the source for hepatoxicity of sodium acetaminophen oxide?

and regardless, that wouldn't matter as it's not going to end up in your final product, so...

and I wasn't talking about snorting codiene, that'd be fucking stupid, obviously I meant insufflatable opoids, that were prepared in conjuncture with apap...

I don't know it if I did I would find it out I just remember reading somewhere why you cant use na-carb and naptha to extract DMT. You had to use either NaOH + naptha, or NA-carb + DCM/chloroform. There was a reason for it. I then read the same thing but for another compound. Sence then I have just felt that way toward all compounds. It may work for codiene but I doubt it.

See, the problem is (aside from your refusal to use grammar, sentence structure and formatting ;) ) that the concept you're suggesting doesn't really make sense. Therefore, for you to just say "well it is like that cos I vaguely remember some internet meme which said so..." doesn't really ring true..

One might choose chloroform over naphtha due to the higher solubility of the desired compound in the former, but there doesn't really seem to be any problem with combining hydroxide with chloroform or carbonate with naphtha.

I think you've just got yourself mixed up... Chloroform is, IIRC, a "better" solvent for the extraction - something which should remain true under most conditions.


On a related note - what's the issue with insufflating codeine? Just curious - thought the issue was pulmonary edema when injecting? Or is this a problem with parenteral administration in general?

See, the problem is (aside from your refusal to use grammar, sentence structure and formatting ;) ) that the concept you're suggesting doesn't really make sense. Therefore, for you to just say "well it is like that cos I vaguely remember some internet meme which said so..." doesn't really ring true..

One might choose chloroform over naphtha due to the higher solubility of the desired compound in the former, but there doesn't really seem to be any problem with combining hydroxide with chloroform or carbonate with naphtha.

I think you've just got yourself mixed up... Chloroform is, IIRC, a "better" solvent for the extraction - something which should remain true under most conditions.


On a related note - what's the issue with insufflating codeine? Just curious - thought the issue was pulmonary edema when injecting? Or is this a problem with parenteral administration in general?



No. You can use NaOH and either naphtha/chloroform/dcm for DMT extraction.
You can NOT use Na-Carb and naptha for DMT extraction.
You CAN use Na-Carb and chloroform/dcm for DMT extraction.


The reason I said I doubt you can use na-carb and naptha is because someone would have tried it seeing that naptha is more readily accessible to a normal person than having to make chloroform or distilling dcm.

If it would work than cool.



Na-Carb is always better than lye. How could you argue that lye would be better (if they both worked for the type of reaction/extraction)?
Na-Carb is safe. Lye is the antichrist.

No. You can use NaOH and either naphtha/chloroform/dcm for DMT extraction.
You can NOT use Na-Carb and naptha for DMT extraction.
You CAN use Na-Carb and chloroform/dcm for DMT extraction.




OK fine, you seem very sure, so I'll assume you're right. The question still remains, why is it so ?

No. You can use NaOH and either naphtha/chloroform/dcm for DMT extraction.
You can NOT use Na-Carb and naptha for DMT extraction.
You CAN use Na-Carb and chloroform/dcm for DMT extraction.


The reason I said I doubt you can use na-carb and naptha is because someone would have tried it seeing that naptha is more readily accessible to a normal person than having to make chloroform or distilling dcm.

If it would work than cool.



Na-Carb is always better than lye. How could you argue that lye would be better (if they both worked for the type of reaction/extraction)?
Na-Carb is safe. Lye is the antichrist.

but. dude.

there are a whole multitude of np solvents out there.

even if you were right, that would not present a roadblock.

and also, first you said you can NOT, then you said you doubt you can.

and I'm still not gonna believe you till you provide refs.

It is something about partition coefficients. If Stoopid Noob or JP came in this would be much easier.

How about extracting codeine from those fizzy tablets :( Anyone got an idea??

How about extracting codeine from those fizzy tablets :( Anyone got an idea??

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/codeine.homebake.labs.html :)

Several packets of tablets, sufficient to yield about 2 g of codeine, are crushed and mixed with water. The mixture is filtered using a filter pump, Buchner funnel and side-arm flask, to remove tablet binding agents, diluents and other excipients. The aqueous filtrate is poured into a separating funnel and sodium hydroxide solution added to make the solution strongly alkaline. This is then extracted with chloroform (about 50 ml). The chloroform layer is drained off and evaporated to dryness using gentle heating (often on a domestic stove). The aqueous layer containing aspirin and paracetamol is discarded. The codeine base is recovered as a white crystalline solid

I reckon you could undergo much the same procedure, e.g. basifying and then extracting with chloroform as is done there.

Just a thought though, it appears that effervescent tablets are often as simple as having an acid, malic or citric for example, and a carbonate base extra to the actives. This implies that they only way they could possibly increase the quantity of aspirin or paracetamol dissolved is by a complimentary change in pH. Whether they even do make any more unwanted stuff dissolve I dunno, might take an experiment.

Even then, if I'm right about the only reason for increase absorption being a changed pH, it wouldn't take much to alter the pH back again. You could even get the unwanted to precipitate out...