Well, the Winter Holidays are about to commence, and in my household, that means half my extended family will be bunking at my house.

Now I'll get to the problem.

As of recently, I worked up the courage to tell my parents once and for all that I don't believe in Jesus, Mary, the little shepherds, angels, and/or demons.

They, being the gossiping Catholics they are, proceeded to tell my entire extended family of my heresy. Since then, I've received several calls from my grandparents, aunts and uncles, and my sister.

Luckily, I have managed to avoid confronting most of them, as most of them live out of state, or in different countries. The only relative outside my immediate family who I've confronted has been my aunt, who gave me a bullshit story about faith for an entire afternoon, evening and night. Her dramatics brought my mother to tears.

She left a month and a half ago, and I've managed to regain my breath. Now, starting next Wednesday, the tenth, my family will being to pour in from across the world. I can't handle being the only atheist in a crowd of Catholics.

They will all be bullshitting me, and I could barely hold my ground last time I argued with a family member. They just turn a blind eye to evidence against their case, and revel in what they consider to be proof of a God. It's not that I'm not well informed about atheism, it's just that they're so full of shit I can't offer a plausible explanation to the kind of rubbish they bring up.

Oh my God, it's like arguing with all the trolls from Totse, only they're real, and full of shit. Have any of you ever had an experience like this before? Any tips, suggestions, or arguments I could bring up would be mighty helpful. There are a few family members I know are weak Catholics, and I might be able to convince them to renounce Organized Religion at least.

When they try to convert you, calmly and respectfully tell them, "I have made up my mind and I would appreciate it if you respect my freedom to believe what I wish." If they talk about their faith, just let them talk amongst themselves. Don't argue with them! The best thing to do is to empty your mind, go to your happy place, and avoid any religious arguments. Trust me, you will never get through to any of them. Trying to reason with them, and explain why you're atheist will be an exercise in futility.

if i were you i would just deny everything and say it was a 'misunderstanding':rolleyes:

or just declare jihad on them

Google "The Criminal History of the Papacy" and/oThe Fox Book Of Martyrs.

Catholics believe to get into heaven you need to be a member of the catholic church.

Jesus the son of God said that no one may come to the father except through him.

God doesn't mind that you don't want anything to do with the catholic church. He would just like you to believe in his Son Jesus. That's All!

John 3:16-17.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him!"

Your family are going to try and make you feel bad about leaving their church but allow God to use this situation for the salvation of your soul - A gift which no church or institution can offer you.


I urge you not to abandon but to accept Jesus for real into your life.

1 Timothy 6:12

"Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses."

Do not be a follower of the Pope but of Christ! Open your heart to Jesus.

Well, the Winter Holidays are about to commence, and in my household, that means half my extended family will be bunking at my house.

Now I'll get to the problem.

As of recently, I worked up the courage to tell my parents once and for all that I don't believe in Jesus, Mary, the little shepherds, angels, and/or demons.

They, being the gossiping Catholics they are, proceeded to tell my entire extended family of my heresy. Since then, I've received several calls from my grandparents, aunts and uncles, and my sister.

Luckily, I have managed to avoid confronting most of them, as most of them live out of state, or in different countries. The only relative outside my immediate family who I've confronted has been my aunt, who gave me a bullshit story about faith for an entire afternoon, evening and night. Her dramatics brought my mother to tears.

She left a month and a half ago, and I've managed to regain my breath. Now, starting next Wednesday, the tenth, my family will being to pour in from across the world. I can't handle being the only atheist in a crowd of Catholics.

They will all be bullshitting me, and I could barely hold my ground last time I argued with a family member. They just turn a blind eye to evidence against their case, and revel in what they consider to be proof of a God. It's not that I'm not well informed about atheism, it's just that they're so full of shit I can't offer a plausible explanation to the kind of rubbish they bring up.

Oh my God, it's like arguing with all the trolls from Totse, only they're real, and full of shit. Have any of you ever had an experience like this before? Any tips, suggestions, or arguments I could bring up would be mighty helpful. There are a few family members I know are weak Catholics, and I might be able to convince them to renounce Organized Religion at least.


I tell you what mate; i have definitely been in this situation before.

Its quite obvious there are going to be some heavily polarized opinions within your household very soon; usually in this kind of situation there is no point in debating; unless you keep it constructive and based around a specific concept/principal/idea people will wander everywhere, and unless of course your folks are of the open minded religious fundamentalist denomination ( harhar).

So instead you should focus on something more universal, one thing that all religious people hold dear to them that is not religious in and of itself ( possibly polar to it) is freedom of religion, or at least their religion. This concept is similar to freedom of speech, press, and thought.

Make sure they understand that you see that they are acting in good karma; in that they believe their way is the best and they are only so keen to extend their consciousness to you you understand that they are acting with good intentions because they want whats best for you, but this is not actually what is necessarily best for them.

I think that generally only a personalized compassionate and understanding act such as this can transcend people ethnographic bias, banter and debate usually will do nothing here because religion is self-realization, that is why it can make complete sense to them but seem like bullshit to them.

You could try this, they may understand this. Something along these lines:

People are flawed; to reach inner-peace and self realization there must be an intrinsic motivation- it can never come completely externally. That motivation is not there and their actions cannot influence it- it absolutely must come from the self, that is the whole point of religion- to transcend human error, that is why they follow Christianity.

Whilst it may be true that Christ can help you ( i personally believe that) it is not possible for a christian to help you, the intrinsic motivation must be their, that is not something that is their presently but is a possibility in the future( if one is open minded at least).

Ive actually never experienced a confrontation like this or the one you are about to, i generally avoid conflict whenever possible ( yeah im passive), that is not to say i haven't experienced this before, ive just never really made a confrontation of it.

Let me tell you my story:

I was born in taranaki in New Zealand where my dad was a Presbyterian minister; after 5 years we moved to Auckland were my dad took up ministry for 4 more years; already you can see Christianity was a major part of my upbringing but at this age i didnt have the same consciousness i do now so i wasn't very critical of it, infact im not really to this day; perhaps having knowledge and experience of Christianity means i have a respect for it that most non-believers do (non-believers in Christianity). You see most christians are acting with good intentions, they are juts acting within their consciousness as best they can; thats why i believe extending consciousness is always a good thing; that is one of the weaknesses of religion; but also of associating purely with any movement including (get ready for this guys) Atheism ( i know blasphemy right? pun intended).

The fact is Atheists and non Christians such as yourself ( i assume your an atheist just because of your implicit malice for Christians) could learn alot from extending your consciousness via the Bible; IMO the past holds valuable knowledge just as the modern world does; people are often critical of "dated" knowledge as if its inferior to modern understanding but the fact is that time is not a valid measurement of knowledge; knowledge is a phenomenon separate from time- knowledge does not change over time- only our consciousness of it.

So anyway- i went to a catholic primary school, we sang hymns at assembly and had prayer before lunch, but really theres nothing wrong with being grateful for the privileged life i have been born into; that is one advantage religious people have over non-believers - look around western society and you will see we are ungrateful.

I went to De la salle ( nigger school) for intermediate which was also catholic then i went to Sacred Heart for high school.

When i was about 12 my parents asked me ( with a bit of pressure) if i wanted to be confirmed- this is a late stage to be joining the catholic church for a child.

There was education and training etc before this occurred; but to be honest i didn't feel very zealous about it and constantly had doubts. Its because of this experience that i understand the a personal connection with God must come intrinsically.

Sacred hard as an institution was a very religious school but the students weren't very into catholicism but like me where never really into it; mostly because they were pressured into it; again i learnt that spirituality msut coem intrinsically.

so yeah i hope this has helped.

Well, I'm not eluding to the Bible having nothing to offer; Indeed it does teach about brotherhood and fraternity. My problem is that they'll try to convince me with all the aspects of Christianity they can fling at me, and I'm not into hijinks, or talking to invisible people

They're not even strict Catholics in the traditional sense. They'll eat meat on Fridays and during Lent. They tack on all these ideas of spirituality and esoteric thought not native to the Abrahamic religions.

They'll tell me personal stories, stories of others, faith healing, etc, and I have to be able to hold my own while they argue.

Oh, the best part is that if I delve too far into my argument, they'll resort to End-of-Days Theology, and some of them are even convinced certain politicians are the Antichrist. What a fat crock of horse shit, but I won't get into politics here.

Who says you HAVE to argue with them?

Just say "I believe what I believe, now let's leave it be and enjoy xmas".

If they get pushy, look them dead in the eyes and say "I believe what I believe, now let's leave it be and enjoy xmas".

Edit: And if they continue being pushy, pick up the bowl of peanuts, throw it against the wall and say "Okay let's not enjoy xmas!"

Compile a large list that compares the catholic church to the 1st century Christians in Jesus day. Leave it on the kitchen table one morning for them to see.


Note: You may have to go purchase more paper. LOTS more paper.

Well, I'm not eluding to the Bible having nothing to offer; Indeed it does teach about brotherhood and fraternity. My problem is that they'll try to convince me with all the aspects of Christianity they can fling at me, and I'm not into hijinks, or talking to invisible people

They're not even strict Catholics in the traditional sense. They'll eat meat on Fridays and during Lent. They tack on all these ideas of spirituality and esoteric thought not native to the Abrahamic religions.

They'll tell me personal stories, stories of others, faith healing, etc, and I have to be able to hold my own while they argue.

Oh, the best part is that if I delve too far into my argument, they'll resort to End-of-Days Theology, and some of them are even convinced certain politicians are the Antichrist. What a fat crock of horse shit, but I won't get into politics here.

So you dont think explaining freedom of religion and freedom of speech/thought will do any good?

Yes you could play happy families and try and ignore it; but if their is internal animosity between family members that is not good; especially if no one is expressing it?

Perhaps you should pay attention to their end of days theology; whilst it may be based on fear it is also based on fact.

Hello global warming, hello receding economy, hello terrorism, hello nuclear warheads; hello end of material culture.

OP, I strongly suggest you do some research and find out exactly which God you do not believe in. I am not trying to be cute here (see the seven faces of God thread).

If Catholicism were not fucked up, no one would have invented Protestantism--which is also fucked up, but in a different way. Many of us mystical gnostic-type theists reject the narrower and limited view of God presented in the Bible.

Just for giggles, get hold of The Perennial Philosophy--an awesome anthology by Aldous Huxley--and when the rels get pushy, quote some St Teresa or St John of the Cross at them.

who cares?

don't discuss yr beliefs or nonbeliefs with anyone else

why does it matter if someone knows if you do or do not believe in X or Y?

in the end we're all wrong anyway

Well, the Winter Holidays are about to commence, and in my household, that means half my extended family will be bunking at my house.

Now I'll get to the problem.

As of recently, I worked up the courage to tell my parents once and for all that I don't believe in Jesus, Mary, the little shepherds, angels, and/or demons.

They, being the gossiping Catholics they are, proceeded to tell my entire extended family of my heresy. Since then, I've received several calls from my grandparents, aunts and uncles, and my sister.

Luckily, I have managed to avoid confronting most of them, as most of them live out of state, or in different countries. The only relative outside my immediate family who I've confronted has been my aunt, who gave me a bullshit story about faith for an entire afternoon, evening and night. Her dramatics brought my mother to tears.

She left a month and a half ago, and I've managed to regain my breath. Now, starting next Wednesday, the tenth, my family will being to pour in from across the world. I can't handle being the only atheist in a crowd of Catholics.

They will all be bullshitting me, and I could barely hold my ground last time I argued with a family member. They just turn a blind eye to evidence against their case, and revel in what they consider to be proof of a God. It's not that I'm not well informed about atheism, it's just that they're so full of shit I can't offer a plausible explanation to the kind of rubbish they bring up.

Oh my God, it's like arguing with all the trolls from Totse, only they're real, and full of shit. Have any of you ever had an experience like this before? Any tips, suggestions, or arguments I could bring up would be mighty helpful. There are a few family members I know are weak Catholics, and I might be able to convince them to renounce Organized Religion at least.

This requires tremendous self-control: Just sit, listen, do not argue. Yes, it sucks, but after it's all over at least there isn't an argument. If they start asking questions, like, "Why don't you believe?" Simple answers allow the least amount of chance for argument. "I just don't." Yeah, they'll try and pry for a more extensive answer, but you can always say that you don't want to argue with the people you love on a holiday of all days.

Also, if your goal is to successfully argue with your family, you're fucked. They're older, wiser, and have a lot more experience at being stubborn.

Just stay strong and do not give in. Tell them about super Aids that will scare them more then the Devil

Let them rant and rant and rant, then respond, "wait, did you say something? Sorry, I don't speak Spanish."

or say something totally random and just outlandish, ie. Jesus molested kids (im not saying that he did, but it will help you greatly)

this will force them to either defend jesus and leave you out of it for a second or walk out of the room shaking there heads and will never talk about this subject with you ever again.

this works by changing there tone from attack to defend and the subject from you to their 'idol'. then if you want to be really left alone, have a totally weird interpretation of one of the WTF books in the old testament, leviticus is a fit, and then have them read this and try to find a good moral standpoint on somewhat 'taboo' issues. to make this even better tie in your first statement with this 'backing info'

dont attack with things that they can overlook, they question the validity of your faith with bullshit, question back with more bullshit. Fact can be overlooked, slander goes straight to the heart, and needs to be refuted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLpR57Kb89Y

What would jesus say if he was gay? "hees not!"

classic

Who says you HAVE to argue with them?

Just say "I believe what I believe, now let's leave it be and enjoy xmas".

If they get pushy, look them dead in the eyes and say "I believe what I believe, now let's leave it be and enjoy xmas".

Edit: And if they continue being pushy, pick up the bowl of peanuts, throw it against the wall and say "Okay let's not enjoy xmas!"

Go with that one^.

Any tips, suggestions, or arguments I could bring up would be mighty helpful.

Best not to argue, and take Beany's advice. (which was some funny shit)