And saw this...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/SKS_modified.jpg


(yes it deserved its own topic:()

I'm too lazy to go look it up, but try to find the tactical SBR Mosin Nagant. Now that thing is really sad.

I'm too lazy to go look it up, but try to find the tactical SBR Mosin Nagant. Now that thing is really sad.
A quick Google search found this - is that what you're talking about?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2635022443_cabe134070.jpg?v=0

I see tactical SKS' all the time at gun shows.

I will pray for you RL.:(

I will pray for you RL.:(

Please do. They always run at least 6-700.

They always run at least 6-700.
W-w-w-w-w-WHAT!?!?

Jeebus! :eek:

Still I'm having trouble even finding a standard SKS. The only nearby gun shops are total shit and attempting to charge $400 or more for ones that are, at best, in mediocre condition.

I was at a friend's house and he showed me his SKS. Couldn't convince him to private party it, though. :mad: :)

A quick Google search found this - is that what you're talking about?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2635022443_cabe134070.jpg?v=0

That is quite possibly the stupidest thing i've ever seen, and if he gets that scope much higher he'll be able to aim while shooting from the hip (at a blistering pace ofcourse thanks to the pistol grip) LMAO

edit: also the barrel looks like it's only about 10" long, probably shorter once you remove the muzzle brake, could this be the new MN 'CQB Pistols' all the seal and sas CT teams have started using?

W-w-w-w-w-WHAT!?!?

Jeebus! :eek:

Still I'm having trouble even finding a standard SKS. The only nearby gun shops are total shit and attempting to charge $400 or more for ones that are, at best, in mediocre condition.

I was at a friend's house and he showed me his SKS. Couldn't convince him to private party it, though. :mad: :)

You should have heard me ask this one dealer exactly why a never-before-cleaned (cordite residue and rust all over) SKS with pathetic, dinged up, discolored wooden furniture was going for $450. This was a couple years ago. They tried to pull the "they'll be banned soon" excuse, when they had to have me tell them that it was Chinese in the first place.

Uhhh-huh.

You should have heard me ask this one dealer exactly why a never-before-cleaned (cordite residue and rust all over) SKS with pathetic, dinged up, discolored wooden furniture was going for $450. This was a couple years ago. They tried to pull the "they'll be banned soon" excuse, when they had to have me tell them that it was Chinese in the first place.

Uhhh-huh.
Man, the balls some people have ... :mad:

Really I don't think the threat with old Soviet designs such as the SKS or Nagant lies in the weapon itself - I'm more concerned with the possible outlawing of surplus ammunition imports, 7.62x39 and x54mm.

Regardless I refuse to pay $400 for any SKS. I might pay up to $350 for one in excellent condition, but having seen that just a few years ago new Type 56's going for half that ... things are getting a little ridiculous.

That is quite possibly the stupidest thing i've ever seen, and if he gets that scope much higher he'll be able to aim while shooting from the hip (at a blistering pace ofcourse thanks to the pistol grip) LMAO

edit: also the barrel looks like it's only about 10" long, probably shorter once you remove the muzzle brake, could this be the new MN 'CQB Pistols' all the seal and sas CT teams have started using?

Yup. My one of my cousins friends brother in laws neighbors is actually a Navy SEAL in Afghanistan and they use that very gun.

Gun show assholes. My girlfriend recently pointed out that I usually stop and glare when I hear some dude make a comment like that.

Hah! I got my SKS for $120 in good condition, the guy was trying to sell it for $125 with a 30 round mag. I asked him how much it'd cost without the extra mag, he gave me this perplexed look and he took $5 off. I guess he couldn't comprehend why someone would be happy with a gun that didn't jam every god damned shot.

Enlighten me, an outsider, as to why this gun is so sad?

Enlighten me, an outsider, as to why this gun is so sad?

Because the second amendment community attracts tools that propagate irrational memes severely as they are all quite possibly the most hopeless of men. The stocks, pistol grips, etc are all add-ons that can be removed in a flash, yet they act like it detracts from the value of the gun no matter what. Perhaps it is because firearms attract more feminine/narcissistic types who would get pissy over the appearance/configuration of a firearm. Go figure.

Oh, so, they are only mad because the gun has all those add-ons?

Oh, so, they are only mad because the gun has all those add-ons?

People get annoyed, not mad, because of the ridiculous tacked on addons that make the firearms look scarier, tend to cause them to be banned, and then on top of all those minor annoyances, are used to try and sell a firearm for three times its cost. It's a ripoff. If you're interested in cars, imagine it as someone trying to sell your normal Honda Civic with a body kit for 60 grand. Now imagine that there are people out there who are ingorant enough to buy it.

That's a poorly outfitted SKS.

Getting that out of the way first.

That said, there ARE some good "tactical" SKS rifles, but in my opinion they're all SKS-D and SKS-M. At the end of the day, with a regular model you're either using the factory 10 round magazine (or 20, in certain cases), or you're forced to use a shitty aftermarket removable that's going to fail half the time and have an awkward bill on it.
I would gladly take a well outfitted SKS-D, in my opinion it's one of the best semi-auto "tactical" rifles a person could ask for. Certainly better than any AK variant, uses reliable magazines, and has a plethora of aftermarket accessories (not just stocks either but well done trigger and firing pin jobs) to boot. Not everyone is going to want to put their name into "the system" and register to have a full auto rifle, so alongside a good AR-15 that's one of the next best things.

Never for an outrageous price like $600-700 though. Plus function always comes first, put some money into reducing the trigger creep and get a good firing pin job BEFORE that bullshit. Regardless of what model you have.

W-w-w-w-w-WHAT!?!?

Jeebus! :eek:

Still I'm having trouble even finding a standard SKS. The only nearby gun shops are total shit and attempting to charge $400 or more for ones that are, at best, in mediocre condition.

I was at a friend's house and he showed me his SKS. Couldn't convince him to private party it, though. :mad: :)

Get an AK. Even Romy AK's feel better than the best Yugo SKS. It's good to have more than 10 rounds at your disposal.

It's good to have more than 10 rounds at your disposal.

I wouldn't know.

...Califowned...

*smirks at the various grandfathered 17 and 33 round magazines for his G17 and feels a little better about himself*

People get annoyed, not mad, because of the ridiculous tacked on addons that make the firearms look scarier, tend to cause them to be banned, and then on top of all those minor annoyances, are used to try and sell a firearm for three times its cost. It's a ripoff. If you're interested in cars, imagine it as someone trying to sell your normal Honda Civic with a body kit for 60 grand. Now imagine that there are people out there who are ingorant enough to buy it.

Come on Looney, the SKS has a shitty ass stock, the Mosin has a shitty ass stock. It would be wonderful to have a pistol grip for either one of them. It would be wonderful to have a foregrip for that shitty ass tack driver of a rifle. I would LOVE not have that shitty ass stock up against my body.

In fact the people that oppose it because of historical context/value are pretty idiotic as once can leave the stock, bayonet etc in storage forever and it won't be cracked/shattered/immolated as it may if it were used on the rifle, as it is a weak piece of shitwood. With polymer stocks the firearm can be enjoyed safely and with respect to the fighting men of the past. This is common sense, but no one ever thinks about this.

Come on Looney, the SKS has a shitty ass stock, the Mosin has a shitty ass stock. It would be wonderful to have a pistol grip for either one of them. It would be wonderful to have a foregrip for that shitty ass tack driver of a rifle. I would LOVE not have that shitty ass stock up against my body.

In fact the people that oppose it because of historical context/value are pretty idiotic as once can leave the stock, bayonet etc in storage forever and it won't be cracked/shattered/immolated as it may if it were used on the rifle, as it is a weak piece of shitwood. With polymer stocks the firearm can be enjoyed safely and with respect to the fighting men of the past. This is common sense, but no one ever thinks about this.

I have to agree with this. If an accesory eixsts that improves functionality without permanently requiring alteration to the host weapon, it could be installed.
However, from a purist point-of-view, one may prefer guns in their original configuration. Its a fuddish thing.:o
I'll still add the flash-hider and pistol sight to my C-96 to up it to Star Wars config tho. When I get my C-96. Because I will. Soon. I'm 50% sure of this ;).

I'm glad we can find common ground on the matter. Best of luck on your endeavor to procure one of the most interesting firearms ever produced. :cool:

So this would be the equivalent of me ricing my hyundai elantra. cool.

So this would be the equivalent of me ricing my hyundai elantra. cool.

No it would not.

Come on Looney, the SKS has a shitty ass stock, the Mosin has a shitty ass stock. It would be wonderful to have a pistol grip for either one of them. It would be wonderful to have a foregrip for that shitty ass tack driver of a rifle. I would LOVE not have that shitty ass stock up against my body.

In fact the people that oppose it because of historical context/value are pretty idiotic as once can leave the stock, bayonet etc in storage forever and it won't be cracked/shattered/immolated as it may if it were used on the rifle, as it is a weak piece of shitwood. With polymer stocks the firearm can be enjoyed safely and with respect to the fighting men of the past. This is common sense, but no one ever thinks about this.


I don't have a problem with aftermarket stocks, but trying to tactical-ize a 130-300 dollar rifle and then sell it with a drop-in part (essentially) for 6-700 dollars and then market it misleadingly (come on... when was the last time you saw a Mosin or SKS seriously on the chopping block as far as bans are concerned?) is annoying.

So this would be the equivalent of me ricing my hyundai elantra. cool.

It depends. That particular stock, possibly. There are some all-metal railed stocks that are adjustable for length of pull and other useful marksmanship tinkerings, but a folding stock? Folding stock on an SKS and a large, jamtacular aftermarket magazine is definitely rice.

a large, jamtacular aftermarket magazine is definitely rice.

^
This.

The folder could enhance portability/weight a little bit, and I can see some people using a pistol grip. But that's pretty much it.
That being said I would not likely do this, had I an SKS.

Looks like an sks with a tapco fusion stock. If anyone wants something like that dont pay a bunch of money to a dealer for a "tactical sks" just buy a regular sks and put a tapco stock on it yourself.

With the prices of sks's now you might as well buy a mini30/14 or Ak

the Mosin has a shitty ass stock. It would be wonderful to have a pistol grip

A pistol grip on a bolt action. That's not well thought out. Add a vert grip too!

A pistol grip on a bolt action. That's not well thought out. Add a vert grip too!

i played around with the idea before. No i did not permanetly attach it. I just put it on the stock and it happend to hold on by itself:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0024.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0022.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0023.jpg

So, i was browsing Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kckLMufuObQ

So, i was browsing Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kckLMufuObQ

god I loled. i cant tell if hes serious or not? True mall ninja!

I asked him in a commment if he was serious and he answered:
It is what it is.

So i guess he's serious.

I asked him in a commment if he was serious and he answered:
It is what it is.

So i guess he's serious.
what a freaking mall ninja dude. I cant take him serious, sorry mall ninja.

LOL, you guys are idiots. Of course that was satire. That guy is good.

You are an idiot for calling me an idiot.
You know very well that there are pepole that act like that "fer reelz".

You are an idiot for calling me an idiot.
You know very well that there are pepole that act like that "fer reelz".

I know people that can't tell satire when they see it.

Does that make this person an idiot?
I really fucking hate when pepole call me an idiot when they don't got good reason for it what-so-fucking-ever.


*sighs* I can't be assed.

I know people that can't tell satire when they see it.I dont know dude he seems pretty fing serious. do you think he would by the guns and armor just to make a joke. and then when people flame him he goes out and buys a $1000 dollar tac vest with rifle plates.

So, i was browsing Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kckLMufuObQ

"If you use your pistol, you fucked up somewhere. It's very ineffective."

Take a look at his sitting position at 4:20. Any good shooter knows that his position will fall apart and is unstable.

I really hope that video was done as comedy.

"If you use your pistol, you fucked up somewhere. It's very ineffective."

Take a look at his sitting position at 4:20. Any good shooter knows that his position will fall apart and is unstable.

I really hope that video was done as comedy.

We all know prone is the most stable position unless you have a bench to rest the weapon on.

We all know prone is the most stable position unless you have a bench to rest the weapon on.

Believe it or not, My version of the sitting position works better than prone for me, but I constantly find myself in situations where prone won't work.

Whatever floats your boat or finds your lost remote. Everyone knows that a good deal of shooting is personal preference.

Believe it or not, My version of the sitting position works better than prone for me, but I constantly find myself in situations where prone won't work.

Whatever floats your boat or finds your lost remote. Everyone knows that a good deal of shooting is personal preference.

i was speaking in general.

i was speaking in general.

Yeah in general go prone with a improvised rest.

If I have the opportunity I take my pack off and use it to stabilize the front of the rifle. I once made a 630 yard deer kill , but I found a forked stick to support the rear of the rifle.


Shooting positions are all about utilizing what's on the rifle. Sling use is something I preach, but so few people can use a sling.

First off, the guy is spending his own money on the stuff and he's demonstrated diverse knowledge in firearms and safety. Sure, his sitting position is all wrong, that was the only thing wrong in the whole video. He may look like a fool, but he's not hurting anyone.

First off, the guy is spending his own money on the stuff and he's demonstrated diverse knowledge in firearms and safety. Sure, his sitting position is all wrong, that was the only thing wrong in the whole video. He may look like a fool, but he's not hurting anyone.

If mallninja was in the dictionary. His pic would be there dude. Seriously that is straight all ninja.

I don't generally like to criticize people, and I was doing all I could to spare him the mall ninja tag, but when he mentioned that dashing for cover was more advanced stuff, I could deceive myself no longer.
Even the most brain dead, animated living being would dive for cover when being shot at. Its basic human instinct, and if you just stand there and get shot returning fire, or try to pull some "advanced cover-seeking technique", you have earned a well- deserved Darwin Award.
He could still be pulling off a very subtle parody of the mall ninja tho.

Shooting positions are all about utilizing what's on the rifle. Sling use is something I preach, but so few people can use a sling.

Indeed, i can't think of ONE person i've been shooting with that uses the sling. I wouldn't leave home without mine, it dramatically increases accuracy from standing and prone (i suck at sitting so i don't notice it as much :D ).

First off, the guy is spending his own money on the stuff and he's demonstrated diverse knowledge in firearms and safety. Sure, his sitting position is all wrong, that was the only thing wrong in the whole video. He may look like a fool, but he's not hurting anyone.

I'm calling Bullshit on his kevlar wrist bands too, If a knife can go through a vest wtf is stopping it from going through what looks like 1/8" or less of kevlar? Also why would he bother shelling out hundreds of dollars for the tacitcool kit he will never use if he's not a ninja? "If your primary jams, fuck it, throw it. A lot of people keep the rifle on them, unless you wanna die you get rid of it." uh-huh, so now you're left clearing the rest or the iranian embassy with just your "highly ineffective" pistol.

I'm calling Bullshit on his kevlar wrist bands too, If a knife can go through a vest wtf is stopping it from going through what looks like 1/8" or less of kevlar? Also why would he bother shelling out hundreds of dollars for the tacitcool kit he will never use if he's not a ninja? "If your primary jams, fuck it, throw it. A lot of people keep the rifle on them, unless you wanna die you get rid of it." uh-huh, so now you're left clearing the rest or the iranian embassy with just your "highly ineffective" pistol.

Aparently he has never heard of clearing a jam.

you guys are fucking hopeless.

i guess it's that insecure "im on the internet therefore i must prove everyone wrong, because i am an expert" that attracts so many gun owners to this beautiful but totally misunderstood discipline (by it's own enthusiasts) having a go at this brilliant fucking comedian. that guy is laughing his ass off as we speak.

i think martian is the mall ninja himself?

how many times were you forced to repeat the fourth grade? that's the problem with the gun-owner community (among many others), you're all out to call people "idiots" and "mall ninjas" and whatever other stupid ass term. it's kind of like the faggot personal trainers who say "you aren't lifting with good form!!11" and "don't eat too much protein, don't want your balls to get hairier!!" or the yoga bitches who walk up and tell you how mean you sound and how much they don't like men who squat deep.

who the fuck cares about his shooting stance, there is no such thing as a proper shooting stance so as long as you can aim correctly and absorb the recoil effectively. i guess you guys wouldn't know because you are clearly linear-thinkers, you've never competed in any real sports or learned anything about physics and how it relates to the human body.

it would be great if this stupid meme of name-calling and acting like a would-be on the internet would come to an end, please be part of a solution and stop this idiocy immediately.

if this inferiority complex still prohibits you from understanding that this is satire, some of the greatest satire in the world, consider what parts of your life it may be affecting as well. you may be surprised.

how many times were you forced to repeat the fourth grade? that's the problem with the gun-owner community (among many others), you're all out to call people "idiots" and "mall ninjas" and whatever other stupid ass term. it's kind of like the faggot personal trainers who say "you aren't lifting with good form!!11" and "don't eat too much protein, don't want your balls to get hairier!!" or the yoga bitches who walk up and tell you how mean you sound and how much they don't like men who squat deep.

who the fuck cares about his shooting stance, there is no such thing as a proper shooting stance so as long as you can aim correctly and absorb the recoil effectively. i guess you guys wouldn't know because you are clearly linear-thinkers, you've never competed in any real sports or learned anything about physics and how it relates to the human body.

it would be great if this stupid meme of name-calling and acting like a would-be on the internet would come to an end, please be part of a solution and stop this idiocy immediately.

if this inferiority complex still prohibits you from understanding that this is satire, some of the greatest satire in the world, consider what parts of your life it may be affecting as well. you may be surprised.
How about you STFU and take it to BITCH AND MOAN. There is such thing as proper shooting stance. If there wasnt dont you think they would tell you to do what ever is comfortable in the military? No they don't, they teach you PROPER technique. Learning the proper way to shoot allows you to do exactly what you said said, aim correctly and absorb recoil.

how many times were you forced to repeat the fourth grade? that's the problem with the gun-owner community (among many others), you're all out to call people "idiots" and "mall ninjas" and whatever other stupid ass term. it's kind of like the faggot personal trainers who say "you aren't lifting with good form!!11" and "don't eat too much protein, don't want your balls to get hairier!!" or the yoga bitches who walk up and tell you how mean you sound and how much they don't like men who squat deep.

who the fuck cares about his shooting stance, there is no such thing as a proper shooting stance so as long as you can aim correctly and absorb the recoil effectively. i guess you guys wouldn't know because you are clearly linear-thinkers, you've never competed in any real sports or learned anything about physics and how it relates to the human body.

it would be great if this stupid meme of name-calling and acting like a would-be on the internet would come to an end, please be part of a solution and stop this idiocy immediately.

if this inferiority complex still prohibits you from understanding that this is satire, some of the greatest satire in the world, consider what parts of your life it may be affecting as well. you may be surprised.

Do you have any friends? Just asking, cause the way you try to pick apart all these social groups makes me doubt anyone likes you.

Add to the fact that you are posting, and more so flaming (like a fagot, lol) in W&C while being a New Arrival. So do yourself a favor and GTFO your way down to half baked and never come back, mister social outcast.

Edit: And while I'm at it:

R_L with this sudden influx of lame cumming out of BI W&C is becoming a flame fest. Banning and warnings seem to be in order.

How about you STFU and take it to BITCH AND MOAN. There is such thing as proper shooting stance. If there wasnt dont you think they would tell you to do what ever is comfortable in the military? No they don't, they teach you PROPER technique. Learning the proper way to shoot allows you to do exactly what you said said, aim correctly and absorb recoil.

lol, the army uses anything but "proper" technique. the army also teaches people to march in certain manners, and to hold flags in certain manners, it has nothing to do with efficiency if that were the case there wouldn't be so many privates with sprained ankles and bruised heels. the army teaches it's shit because it teaches anti-individuality and gang mentality. or at least they used to, i hear they're obligated to at least eight hours of sleep these days in some areas. just ask jodevilgod, he's the only ex-ranger in here and look at how proud he is. the army is for suckers. and it goes for all forces not just the army. hitting targets alone is complex enough, man doesn't need even more complexity (such as pointless, useless stances and mannerisms) to complicate the dynamics of shooting even more.

and no, no one likes me, in fact my own daddy makes me walk home through a pedophile infested neighborhood because he's too embarrassed to be seen picking me up at school. (i happen to be 12 years old, of course).

Do you have any friends? Just asking, cause the way you try to pick apart all these social groups makes me doubt anyone likes you.

Add to the fact that you are posting, and more so flaming (like a fagot, lol) in W&C while being a New Arrival. So do yourself a favor and GTFO your way down to half baked and never come back, mister social outcast.

Edit: And while I'm at it:

Wow I just foud the ignore list, it is beautifu!!!!!

lol, the army uses anything but "proper" technique. the army also teaches people to march in certain manners, and to hold flags in certain manners, it has nothing to do with efficiency if that were the case there wouldn't be so many privates with sprained ankles and bruised heels. the army teaches it's shit because it teaches anti-individuality and gang mentality. or at least they used to, i hear they're obligated to at least eight hours of sleep these days in some areas. just ask jodevilgod, he's the only ex-ranger in here and look at how proud he is. the army is for suckers. and it goes for all forces not just the army. hitting targets alone is complex enough, man doesn't need even more complexity (such as pointless, useless stances and mannerisms) to complicate the dynamics of shooting even more.

and no, no one likes me, in fact my own daddy makes me walk home through a pedophile infested neighborhood because he's too embarrassed to be seen picking me up at school. (i happen to be 12 years old, of course).

You dumb shit, I SAID THE MILITARY. It doesnt have to be the army it doesn't even have to be the US military. The military also produces many fine marksman and they use PROPER SHOOTING STANCES. There IS A RIGHT WAY TO SHOOT. Stance is very important. If you think proper stance is complex then you are just a retard. I am done with you now retard have a good day.

That's because being a marksman is about as special as being an orange belt in jew jitsu. Way to use the ignore function jackass!

who taught you how to shoot and of what school of thought did they graduate from?

who taught you how to shoot and of what school of thought did they graduate from?

I was self taught then a few instructors from the CMP took me under their wing. I could never afford a surplus kimber and they didn't have the sporter class in my state at the time.

I will vouch for what chronic has said about stance.

There are right and wrong ways to do something. Everything relating to the siting, and offhand position in that video was wrong.

Since you seem the expert, would you mind telling us about stability in relation to your shooting position?

That's because being a marksman is about as special as being an orange belt in jew jitsu. Way to use the ignore function jackass!

Actually it is a pretty special to be able to hit a 12 inch plate at 1000 yards from prone. Nothing like waiting a second for the CLING! to come back to you. :D

Indeed, i can't think of ONE person i've been shooting with that uses the sling. I wouldn't leave home without mine, it dramatically increases accuracy from standing and prone (i suck at sitting so i don't notice it as much :D ).

I rock at sitting. It is very natural to me.

Anyways, I like leather slings over nylon slings. I've heard of something called a "Ching Sling" but I don't know what they are or how they work.

I know you can use your front sling swivel as a hand stop if set up properly and you have a shooting glove on. :D

In other words you did not learn how to shoot from anyone credible, you basically learned via word of mouth. So basically, you only validate what I have to say about shooting technique being something that is learned naturally and not taught in school. You can look to the greatest snipers in history, such as Carlos Hathcock, who taught himself how to shoot out in the middle of nowhere, Arkansas hunting to feed his family. You think the military could have taught him any better? Man does not need to be taught, he is bet suited to learn through trial and error he will adopt the most efficient technique by the laws of physics, as he will make position adjustments based on his own needs.

In other words you did not learn how to shoot from anyone credible, you basically learned via word of mouth. So basically, you only validate what I have to say about shooting technique being something that is learned naturally and not taught in school. You can look to the greatest snipers in history, such as Carlos Hathcock, who taught himself how to shoot out in the middle of nowhere, Arkansas hunting to feed his family. You think the military could have taught him any better? Man does not need to be taught, he is bet suited to learn through trial and error he will adopt the most efficient technique by the laws of physics, as he will make position adjustments based on his own needs.

He taught himself the basics, he refined his skill in the Marine Corps. He later instructed students on the fine art of shooting. If you are serious about competitive shooting, check out the CMP instead of throwing around points and dodging the real subject.

Back to what we were talking about:

There are basics of all shooting positions. The only thing that you got right was the individual adapting each position to his own needs.

It's not just as simple as kneel and shoot. LEt me go dig up a video that gives some good pointers on the basics.

This guy doesn;t want to know anything from you, he thinks he knows it all already.

Oh well who gives a shit man, it's pretty moot.

For those that actually are interested in the fundamentals of good shooting positions and how you can use your anatomy to provide a more stable platform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sa7ODrtWMY

Yes it's an air rifle, but you have to have better trigger control and follow through with them.

Oh well who gives a shit man, it's pretty moot.

For those that actually are interested in the fundamentals of good shooting positions and how you can use your anatomy to provide a more stable platform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sa7ODrtWMY

Yes it's an air rifle, but you have to have better trigger control and follow through with them.That is a powerful airrifle not a airsoft gun like the Martian Luger King shoots.

That is a powerful airrifle not a airsoft gun like the Martian Luger King shoots.

Just chill man, no need to get worked up over the pointless things. :)

I highly doubt Carlos refined his technique in the USMC, once motor patterns are created that early in life it is hard to "refine" them (it's easier to learn something than it is to unlearn something). That's why gymnasts begin training at such a young age, because of the technical requirements of their sport. Regardless Carlos' muscle contractions and everything that is actually important for hitting targets most certainly were developed on his own, as a child.

The only thing Carlos "refined" in the marine corps was the skill he developed what with the 300 odd shots he took at human beings in life-threatening situations. If that's what you mean you basically regurgitated my point for me.

Just chill man, no need to get worked up over the pointless things. :)

i am not getting worked up at all. You made it sound like it was just an airrifle which it is but it is one of the more powerful ones, not a little bb/pellet gun like you made it sound.

I highly doubt Carlos refined his technique in the USMC, once motor patterns are created that early in life it is hard to "refine" them (it's easier to learn something than it is to unlearn something). That's why gymnasts begin training at such a young age, because of the technical requirements of their sport. Regardless Carlos' muscle contractions and everything that is actually important for hitting targets most certainly were developed on his own, as a child.

The only thing Carlos "refined" in the marine corps was the skill he developed what with the 300 odd shots he took at human beings in life-threatening situations. If that's what you mean you basically regurgitated my point for me.Who are you talking about "carlos"

I highly doubt Carlos refined his technique in the USMC, once motor patterns are created that early in life it is hard to "refine" them (it's easier to learn something than it is to unlearn something). That's why gymnasts begin training at such a young age, because of the technical requirements of their sport. Regardless Carlos' muscle contractions and everything that is actually important for hitting targets most certainly were developed on his own, as a child.

The only thing Carlos "refined" in the marine corps was the skill he developed what with the 300 odd shots he took at human beings in life-threatening situations. If that's what you mean you basically regurgitated my point for me.

You can doubt it, but it's true. He said it himself. I'm going to ask you to prove me wrong just like I did with your childish comments in the taser thread.


Hathcock was a good shot, but there are plenty of people who have beat his groups today. As you said, it is all a a mater of physics.

You should check out the krieger barrels site to see the world record 1000 yard group.

i am not getting worked up at all. You made it sound like it was just an airrifle which it is but it is one of the more powerful ones, not a little bb/pellet gun like you made it sound.

I'm talking about the guy I'm tempted to call a troll.

I'm talking about the guy I'm tempted to call a troll.

No he is definetly a troll. it seems that a few of them have found their way to weapons and combat the past couple of weeks.

No doubt people have been better than Carlos, how many of them didn't have the same training experience (young age, self taught or through word of mouth) and more importantly, who cares? My point was not that one can become an international class shooter, but that technique is better adapted to than learned as the same rigid standards cannot apply to humans who vary in body type and muscle type. What did Carlos say and when/where did he say it?

No he is definetly a troll. it seems that a few of them have found their way to weapons and combat the past couple of weeks.

Well he has posted 30 times today, I haven't evaluated his posts, but once again, Who gives a shit? He'll burn out and eventually stop talking out of his ass.

Why care about the unimportant things? It's just one troll, nothing more, nothing less.

Keep comforting yourselves assclowns that's that same "there's NO WAY I could ever be wrong" mentality that keeps you from seeing the truth.

No doubt people have been better than Carlos, how many of them didn't have the same training experience (young age, self taught or through word of mouth) and more importantly, how cares? My point was not that one can become an international class shooter, but that technique is better adapted to than learned as the same rigid standards cannot apply to humans who vary in body type and muscle type. What did Carlos say and when/where did he say it?

Self taught methods can only go so far. My offhand was horid compared to what the CMP taught me. Granted, I modified it so I was more stable and more comfortable.

I disagree that anyone can compete and win a national match round at camp perry. It takes a very long time to work out all of the kinks with both your technique and your rifle.

I'm asking you to back your point that his shooting skills were not refined in the marine corps.

Keep comforting yourselves assclowns that's that same "there's NO WAY I could ever be wrong" mentality that keeps you from seeing the truth.

why would they make tasers with a fucking barb? that would require surgical removal you fucking idiot..

One:

http://www.diyselfdefense.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/c2_features.jpg

Two:

http://stungunreviews.tripod.com/imgs/taser-barbs.jpg

Three:
http://www.taser.org/images/projectile-03.jpg

What were you saying about the truth again? :)

It is already scientifically documented that motor patterns developed at a young age become first-nature and that they cannot be refined significantly as their volume of repetition is distributed along the time frame of several years. Carlos would have had a hard time adapting to the frigid, standardized shooting techniques of the U.S. military when his motor pathway was already precisely calculated to his own tempo, his own breath, his own natural rhythm. It's funny you say Hathcock refined his skills with the teaching of the Marine Corps, it's obvious you don't know jack shit about him because Carlos enlisted as an MP he only switched to becoming a sniper while he was already in Vietnam. He was only chosen during his tour because his superiors had learned of his awesome accomplishments in shooting competitions as an MP. Carlos received no training on how to become a sniper, he was a natural.

As for you, ilovechronic, I do not feel the need to show my guns off on totse (nor do I feel the need to cover them in tape and post a thread about it, LOL!!!) I'm quite content with actually putting them to good use rather than using them as a status symbol on the internet.

Humorous.

who taught you how to shoot and of what school of thought did they graduate from?

My dad and an ex-kaibil sargent who happens to be my bodyguard and personal friend. Does that count?:o

What's that? Kill Bill? Are you a Crazy-88?

What's that? Kill Bill? Are you a Crazy-88?

Kaibil's a branch of the army here. They specialize in anti-insurgency work. They used to turn out some pretty good soildiers back in the days of the civil war.
What's crazy-88?

Edit: Do you have a Luger? I'm into Lugers myself. Maybe we can share some tips. I've not come across many Luger collectors.

I am, the 8 model series is the most comfortable, desirable design in a handgun ever fathomed. I own three of them myself. They are so god damned solid, I wish some commercial manufacture would make one to specs so that I could carry it around and drop it, drop magazines, abuse it etc as I wouldn't dare do that with the antiques I own. How do you like yours? Didn't you affix a suppressor to it? I think I might have seen your youtube channel once.

Whats up with all the retarded bickering lately?

So much for me following you around, ilovechronic. When did I say my personal technique was the best? If you had paid attention to my posts, you would have noticed that what I was trying to get at was that there is no such thing as a "perfect technique".

Also, why do you find it so hard to believe that I own firearms? Perhaps you are speaking from personal experience? Judging by your intelligence, as well as your grammar I assume that you are perhaps a little too young to purchase your own firearms, and that most of yours are actually straw purchases awarded to you by your parents? Seems kind of like narcissistic projection to me.

3 lugers my ass.

Is that some kind of subconscious homoerotic gesture? I'm well aware they're designated as "P08".

................................LMFAO, just as I expected, come back and tell me about my orange-tip airsoft guns when you're old enough to purchase your own fucking handguns you whiny little queer. I know ALL about your narcissistic supply rampages on these forums in which you post your firearms, which you value so highly as you DO NOT EVEN OWN THEM LEGALLY, there is no need to counsel me regarding your stock layman's firearms and how much you love them. Perhaps I worry about paper trails because I do not want the government to know that I own firearms? You do not seem to criticize Thorazine50x when he talks about burying his firearms in PVC pipe with the intent of excavating them illega.. Ehrm, losing them on a fishing trip. Yeah I've got paper trails to avoid, what with me going on saloon slayings with my 2500 hundred dollar rustic 9mm and raping every granny on sight at gun point in public. That's why I'm the Luger King.

LOL, learn to read you fucking idiot.

................................LMFAO, just as I expected, come back and tell me about my orange-tip airsoft guns when you're old enough to purchase your own fucking handguns you whiny little queer.

That was a reference towards your designation of me as a child who doesn't own anything but airsoft guns. Always so quick to go on these narcissistic supply rampages with your pictures of shit you own, try thinking next time idiot it might do your ass some good next time you decide to post a photograph of your faggoty looking ass on the internet.

Good job fucking with that serial number though, if you hadn't done that I would report your parents to the ATF.

You cannot legally own a handgun. It is registered in your parent's identity and you are possessing it illegally, it is their handgun until it is legally transferred over to you. Your parents are guilty of providing firearms to a minor and should be prosecuted and tried to the fullest extent of the law. You know this and that is why you hid the serial number via MS paint.

"I HAVE FRIENDS!!! I HAVE GUNS!!! I GO TO THE RANGE, LOOK AT MY LIFE!!!"

Such a narcissistic little cunt.

And if you can own a handgun legally at age 18 in your state, and your parents do not own yours and haven't purchased it with the intent of supplying it to a minor, which is illegal; I'm curious as to why you have hidden the serial number.

And yes, as far as purchasing handguns as well as alcohol and other commodities go, you are a minor. Getting in to a range means nothing.

So, getting back on track, what years are your Lugers man? Would you concur that the Pre-WWI and WWI models, although made to looser tolerances, seem to be better shooters? I haven't found anyone yet that can confirm if this is generalized or not.

Oh, and I did affix a suppressor to mine. But its mounted on an adapter that causes no permanent modification or damage whatsoever to the gun, and can be removed entirely in a matter of minutes. The adapter itself doubles as a compensator when the silencer is not attached.

Have you experienced problems with the aluminum bottom magazines. My bakelite bottom 1938 Haenels seem to feed the best of all the ones I've tried. Its kinda sad tho, Luger mags are going through the roof these days.:(.
Anyways, I'm glad to have found another Luger collector :).

As a serious question, can any of you guys help me affix orange tips to my firearms? They seem to be the rage these days. Also, mommies don't let the other kids play with me because they say my guns don't have orange tips on them :(.
So any ideas are welcome.

Forgot to add:
Mine are a 1916 DWM (with buttstock and black GI capture holster) and a 1938 S/42, this last one with matching holster, 3 mags, takedown tool, cleaning brush and cleaning rod.

Did you not read what I said, I HAVE ALL OF THE SERIAL NUMBERS COVERD IT IS COMMON PRACTICE WHEN POSTING PICS OF YOUR GUNS ON THE INTERWEBS DUDZ.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSCF0192.jpg Oh noes? he has his serial number coverd? ILEGALL PURCHASE HES HIDING SUMTHING DUDZ LULZ. I R TROLLZ

Now that you mention it, why do people do that normally. I've seen in in most forums on the Web. I've never done it myself, but wondered about it.
Thanks,
LavaRed

Martian Luger King This guy must be hiding something also right?
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSC03170-2.jpgdo I need to keep posting them or are you going to shut up?



sorry, lavared, I don't like this guy making accusations about me.

No worries. I know. Almost everyone else I've seen covers their serials too. I'm guessing its a security precaution. I never did it myself, but I don't know if I should start.
O/T, I've found a really good solution for long-term gun storage, which I hope to share with you guys one of these days. Just need to get over with the coffee harvest and I'll resume my research activities.:)

The law states they you CANNOT purchase a handgun from a FFl until you are 21, you can OWN one once you are over 18 though. nice try. ONCE AGAIN KNOW YOUR LAWS.

You CAN also purchase one from a PRIVATE PARTY at 18. And it is PERFECTLY LEGAL TO RECEIVE A FIREARM AS A GIFT FROM YOUR PARENTS.




This is how I got all of my handguns.

Guess I'm a criminal too :-/


EDIT:

Nice XD :D

LavaRed, I too have noticed that pre-WW2 shooters are far better shooters. I feel this is because of their pre-Mauser origins. I even notice this with other vintage firearms such as 1911's and and some of the much older Colt cowboy revolvers. It's interesting to me how older firearms are much more solidly built and reliable than their mass-produced counterparts. The guns of WWI and WW2 had to withstand far more grueling battlefields and abuse/neglect than those of today.

That spssr was a very cool addition to the Luger, I wish I had the guts to give it a try but the laws are far more viciously enforced in the states. How has the quality of the spssr fared over time?

I personally have that problem with the only aluminum mag I own, although I find that interchanging mags on that particular gun creates an even worse effect so I feel it may be a problem with the firearm itself. It tends to fail to feed every three reloads or so. Coincidentally this is a Mauser-produced model, is your situation similar?

I too am glad there is a Luger enthusiast here. By the way, I paint all of my lugers hot pink and put red flash suppressors (with flames on the end of them) to fool the police. Also, on the subject of magazines, I have a few banana clips if you're interested. Free of charge, manufactured by C-P-T industries. B)

Forgot to add:
Mine are a 1916 DWM (with buttstock and black GI capture holster) and a 1938 S/42, this last one with matching holster, 3 mags, takedown tool, cleaning brush and cleaning rod.

Nice, you've got the buttstock. I've been drooling over them for so long but I don't have to money to dish out for one at the moment, I've considered attempting to build one but there's no way I can find the time for it. Does it feel as nice as it looks?

LavaRed, I too have noticed that pre-WW2 shooters are far better shooters. I feel this is because of their pre-Mauser origins. I even notice this with other vintage firearms such as 1911's and and some of the much older Colt cowboy revolvers. It's interesting to me how older firearms are much more solidly built and reliable than their mass-produced counterparts. The guns of WWI and WW2 had to withstand far more grueling battlefields and abuse/neglect than those of today.

That spssr was a very cool addition to the Luger, I wish I had the guts to give it a try but the laws are far more viciously enforced in the states. How has the quality of the spssr fared over time?

I personally have that problem with the only aluminum mag I own, although I find that interchanging mags on that particular gun creates an even worse effect so I feel it may be a problem with the firearm itself. It tends to fail to feed every three reloads or so. Coincidentally this is a Mauser-produced model, is your situation similar?

I too am glad there is a Luger enthusiast here. By the way, I paint all of my lugers hot pink and put red flash suppressors (with flames on the end of them) to fool the police. Also, on the subject of magazines, I have a few banana clips if you're interested. Free of charge, manufactured by C-P-T industries. B)
Hmmm? Could it be that it was common practice? I think so. So thank you for laying off. Maybe the pre wwII models were better quality? i would imagine that production started to get rushed for the war and that may have resulted in less quality control.
This is how I got all of my handguns.

Guess I'm a criminal too :-/


EDIT:

Nice XD :D
Thank you,for posting that statment and for comp,limenting my XD, I believe you have the nickle finish model? Very nice also! it just seems like everyone loves glock but there is no love for the XD :( i love my XD it is a fine handgun. My friend went to the range last time and the fucker outshot me with my own handgun. Now i have him turned onto the XD. he wanted a metal frame pistol like a 1911 but after he shot my xd he now wants a XD! :) All the doubters just need to try it out and then decide if it sucks or not.No worries. I know. Almost everyone else I've seen covers their serials too. I'm guessing its a security precaution. I never did it myself, but I don't know if I should start.
O/T, I've found a really good solution for long-term gun storage, which I hope to share with you guys one of these days. Just need to get over with the coffee harvest and I'll resume my research activities.:)

Guys, I think we're all making a big fuss about all of this. I'm sure its just a big misunderstanding. Of course all of us, or quite the majority of us got our first guns as gifts from our parents. Some even before our teenage years. Hardly a crime, this is. It is quite legal to gift a gun to a minor, and the responsibility rests on the legal guardian, so I'm told. Didn't Sarah Brady buy and gift a rifle to her son this way? I seem to remember this from somewhere...

In my humble opinion, everyone responsible and able to own firearms should. The trick is keeping them out of the irresponsible without barring the responsible from getting them.
But in our corrupt world, it seems this applies for everything.

And speaking of this or that minor thing being criminal, are we not all sinners before God, since birth, and needing of His Mercy and Salvation. So I guess we're all kinda on the same boat about being imperfect.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. I'll be hitting the bed soon. So pardon any gramatical errors.

Yeah that's about right quality control went to shit in the 30's and it's gotten even worse up to this very day now that supply and demand has increased by a few billion. That's noticeable with everything these days. I wish we go back to a pre-industrial revolution style reality but with a few luxuries we enjoy today such as the internet. I feel that life was far more meaningful before then or more practically during the earlier stages such as the 1880's and 90's. Back then you could get a quality product that was hand made, something unique, not something that rolls of of an assembly line. Everything was just much more meaningful during those days, by the words of my grandfathers.

Nice, you've got the buttstock. I've been drooling over them for so long but I don't have to money to dish out for one at the moment, I've considered attempting to build one but there's no way I can find the time for it. Does it feel as nice as it looks?

Yup, totally. It works like a charm on the aim too. The drawback is having the blast going much nearer to the face (I've been foolhardy abt ear protection for too long I fear).

Yup, both my guns came from the Oberndorf factory. A tip on the jams. These are caused by the ammunition. Specifically, the shape of the ojive on the ammunition. Try shooting regular Wolf or Barnaul 9mm through it.

Apparently both of these are the closest you can get to the original German bullet specs. The downside is the fouling. But the gun doesn't jam as much.

And the aluminum mags don't fit on the WWI guns for some reason. The fit is hellishly tight and they don't free-fall.

The suppressor hasn't degraded at all, but seems to have something against Winchester white box and Partizan ammunition: It doesn't suppress them at all. I'm figuring something to do with the velocity at which the powder burns, but I'm not sure. Both are 124gr projectiles, so theoretically they should sound quieter than the 115gr high power loads on which the thing seems to thrive. But it fulfills its intended purpose of backyard plinking quite admirably :D.

Guys, I think we're all making a big fuss about all of this. I'm sure its just a big misunderstanding. Of course all of us, or quite the majority of us got our first guns as gifts from our parents. Some even before our teenage years. Hardly a crime, this is. It is quite legal to gift a gun to a minor, and the responsibility rests on the legal guardian, so I'm told. Didn't Sarah Brady buy and gift a rifle to her son this way? I seem to remember this from somewhere...

In my humble opinion, everyone responsible and able to own firearms should. The trick is keeping them out of the irresponsible without barring the responsible from getting them.
But in our corrupt world, it seems this applies for everything.

And speaking of this or that minor thing being criminal, are we not all sinners before God, since birth, and needing of His Mercy and Salvation. So I guess we're all kinda on the same boat about being imperfect.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. I'll be hitting the bed soon. So pardon any gramatical errors.
Hey, I dont care if this guy posts here. you don't come here and start insulting the regulars or you look like a troll, simple as that. Everyone on W&C gets along for the most part. But lately a few new people have been coming in here like they own the place. I am MORe than happy to share the forum but people need to have a little respect for the people who have put a lot of time into this forum and then the new people will recieve respect back! I just don't want accusations about me or my parents commiting crimes. It is perfectly legal to do that in the U.S. as long as the person does not give them the money to buy it or know they are getting it before hand.

i have a question for you luger lovers? is it true that the luger can shoot multiple types of 9mm an not just 9mm luger/parabellum?

Yeah that's about right quality control went to shit in the 30's and it's gotten even worse up to this very day now that supply and demand has increased by a few billion. That's noticeable with everything these days. I wish we go back to a pre-industrial revolution style reality but with a few luxuries we enjoy today such as the internet. I feel that life was far more meaningful before then or more practically during the earlier stages such as the 1880's and 90's. Back then you could get a quality product that was hand made, something unique, not something that rolls of of an assembly line. Everything was just much more meaningful during those days, by the words of my grandfathers.

Now this I can totally agree with. I would have loved to live in the grand old days of the mid-18th. century but for one thing: Toilets. I can not survive without a modern toilet. And toilet paper. Call me crazy. And I guess the internet too, but then the very recent modern world is largely a product of the internet. On the other hand, toilets had little to do with the social revolution. That we know of...

Now that our flame fest/argument is done, i will kindly delete all most posts that are not on topic.

Hey, I dont care if this guy posts here. you don't come here and start insulting the regulars or you look like a troll, simple as that. Everyone on W&C gets along for the most part. But lately a few new people have been coming in here like they own the place. I am MORe than happy to share the forum but people need to have a little respect for the people who have put a lot of time into this forum and then the new people will recieve respect back! I just don't want accusations about me or my parents commiting crimes. It is perfectly legal to do that in the U.S. as long as the person does not give them the money to buy it or know they are getting it before hand.

i have a question for you luger lovers? is it true that the luger can shoot multiple types of 9mm an not just 9mm luger/parabellum?

I haven't tried this one yet. And yes, I totally understand that it sucks to be insulted. I'm just trying to help get everyone to get along. And your situation is not a crime. We all know that.

But its Christmas guys. We should all be gathering together singing Silent Night instead of fighting...

I'll definitely give wolf a try, thanks, it's definitely a cheaper alternative to what I'm currently using (Winchester). How's the barrel condition on your models? Mine are faring somewhat well, but only one of them is truly remarkable, in relative terms. Oddly enough I find it to be only the second most accurate, perhaps it's because the action is somewhat rough. Did it cost a great deal to have those innards designed for your suppressor? Those threads you posted were pretty inspiring, I've always been interested in that kind of ear protection. It's interesting you have had some issues with Winchester ammunition as well, even though it is in regards to your ear protector, I suppose I'll be abandoning that stuff. I don't want that kind of pressure in such a collectible firearm anyway.

I have a question for you luger lovers? Is it true that the luger can shoot multiple types of 9mm and not just 9mm luger/parabellum? That would be the ultimate survival gun right there!

Chronic you can call me and my parents a couple of pig molesting incestuous pedophiles, words especially on totse are meaningless. Although you would be right if you called me that.

Martian Luther King, stop trolling. You have no idea how many of us were or are in the military, much less the Army because jodevilgod is not the only one here who's been.

Also, you don't need to be in the military to understand military training. There are plenty of civilians who do contract work for the military to refine such training from every standpoint (including psychological), and while you do make some very decent points, especially pertaining to stance (there are accepted, efficient stances, but as long as you have a good base and a good grip to put shots where they count via marksmanship principles, who cares?), you need to stop arguing because much of what you said is also inflammatorily incorrect. Consider this a warning.

"Inflammatorily incorrect" apparently not as this kid Chronic has deleted almost every post directed towards me in this thread.

"Inflammatorily incorrect" apparently not as this kid Chronic has deleted almost every post directed towards me in this thread.

Now that our flame fest/argument is done, i will kindly delete all most posts that are not on topic.

Look man, just give it up. You've made 75 posts in one day. If you are actually interested in finding information (most of us think you are here to troll) ask questions or answer questions with facts. Don't create gray areas.

"Inflammatorily incorrect" apparently not as this kid Chronic has deleted almost every post directed towards me in this thread.

Yes beause they were IRRELAVENT TO THE THREAD. I am not going to leave up useless arguments. And once again I am a legal adult. And my points were not incorrect. All i was trying to get accross as Looney pointed out is that there is such thing as proper technique. if you don't want to agree that is fine, but it does not mean your are right. you have come on this forum and insulted EVERY regular that stands in front of you. Have a little respect, and you will receive the same respect back. Like I said.

LOL, learn to read you fucking idiot.



That was a reference towards your designation of me as a child who doesn't own anything but airsoft guns. Always so quick to go on these narcissistic supply rampages with your pictures of shit you own, try thinking next time idiot it might do your ass some good next time you decide to post a photograph of your faggoty looking ass on the internet. Also, posting pictures for verification is not at all narcissistic. i suggest you double check that definition.

You cannot legally own a handgun. It is registered in your parent's identity and you are possessing it illegally, it is their handgun until it is legally transferred over to you. Your parents are guilty of providing firearms to a minor and should be prosecuted and tried to the fullest extent of the law. You know this and that is why you hid the serial number via MS paint.

There is no federal registration of handguns, thus you can not logically determine that the said handgun is registered as the parents'. Providing firearms to a minor is not illegal in any state I'm aware of under certain stipulations, namely one of which is that the parent or legal guardian is there to supervise its use.

Therefor, my comment about your having said some inflammatorily incorrect statements stands.

There is no federal registration of handguns, thus you can not logically determine that the said handgun is registered as the parents'. Providing firearms to a minor is not illegal in any state I'm aware of under certain stipulations, namely one of which is that the parent or legal guardian is there to supervise its use.

Therefor, my comment about your having said some inflammatorily incorrect statements stands.
I tried explaining this to him multiple times and he could not comprehend it. I am 20, my two hand guns were GIFTS that I received and I did not know I was receiving them. Perfectly legal.The law states that PURCHASING a handgun when under 21 from a ffl is prohibited, same with the ammo. It is perfectly legal to OWN one as long as you are 18. He really was just trying to find ANYTHING he could to use against me. Because i hit a soft spot when I said he probably doesn't even own firearms.

Random looney is it not common practice to cover the serial numbers when posting pics of them online? Have you not seen ths frequently?

also it is legal to purchase a handgun from a private party as long as you are 18 right?

There is no federal registration of handguns, thus you can not logically determine that the said handgun is registered as the parents'. Providing firearms to a minor is not illegal in any state I'm aware of under certain stipulations, namely one of which is that the parent or legal guardian is there to supervise its use.

Therefor, my comment about your having said some inflammatorily incorrect statements stands.

I already know what state he lives in, I happen to border him over here in the southwest in fact I may reside only one hundred miles away from him. I can logically determine the handgun is registered to his parents, because he hid the serial number in the picture of his handgun. If his parents purchased it, and he felt the need to hide it, it must be registered to his parents. Otherwise there would be no need to hide it, as it is simply a manufacture marking that doesn't exist as far as the ATF knows. It being a "common practice" is no reasoning for the fact that he hid it. And supplying firearms to a minor is illegal in many states.

also it is legal to purchase a handgun from a private party as long as you are 18 right?

This makes me LOL so hard.

This makes me LOL so hard.

This is for future reference. Nothing funny about it.

I already know what state he lives in, I happen to border him over here in the southwest in fact I may reside only one hundred miles away from him. I can logically determine the handgun is registered to his parents, because he hid the serial number in the picture of his handgun. If his parents purchased it, and he felt the need to hide it, it must be registered to his parents. Otherwise there would be no need to hide it, as it is simply a manufacture marking that doesn't exist as far as the ATF knows. It being a "common practice" is no reasoning for the fact that he hid it. And supplying firearms to a minor is illegal in many states.
Dude I dont know how many times I need to go over this with you.
ALL OF THE FIREARMS I POSTED HAVE THE SERIAL NUMBERS COVERED. THIS IS COMMON PRACTICE WHEN POSTING PICTURES OF FIREARMS.

This is how I got all of my handguns.

Guess I'm a criminal too :-/


EDIT:

Nice XD :D

.No worries. I know. Almost everyone else I've seen covers their serials too. I'm guessing its a security precaution. I never did it myself, but I don't know if I should start.
O/T, I've found a really good solution for long-term gun storage, which I hope to share with you guys one of these days. Just need to get over with the coffee harvest and I'll resume my research activities.:)
i GUESS YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THIS. sO I WILL WASTE MY TIME AND POST ALL OF THE EXAMPLES I HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

No they do not, the picture resolution is too low to identify a serial number from the get go. You seem to be quite determined to make it clear that you have done this simply because it is "common practice", yet you have not in the entire lifespan of this thread actually come out and said "no, it is not registered to my parents, it is registered to me". You haven't even denied that it's not registered in your parents name. Just give a yes or no answer or stop embarrassing yourself.

Oh they dont cover the serial numbers huh? THEN WHY THE FUCK DOES ALMOST EVERYBODY DO IT?
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/SBRBuild2.jpg
Hmm I wonder why they have it coverd?

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSC01113.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSC03170-2.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSCF0192.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/100_2338x.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSC01453.jpg

THERE IS NO REGISTRATION IN MY STATE YOU IDIOT.
When I got my walther p-22 I sent the FACTORY WARRANTY IN WITH MY NAME ON IT.

No they do not, the picture resolution is too low to identify a serial number from the get go. You seem to be quite determined to make it clear that you have done this simply because it is "common practice", yet you have not in the entire lifespan of this thread actually come out and said "no, it is not registered to my parents, it is registered to me". You haven't even denied that it's not registered in your parents name. Just give a yes or no answer or stop embarrassing yourself.

Give us a yes-or-no answer or admit you cannot.

Give us a yes-or-no answer or admit you cannot.

What are you talking about.
maybe you missed this;
Oh they dont cover the serial numbers huh? THEN WHY THE FUCK DOES ALMOST EVERYBODY DO IT?
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/SBRBuild2.jpg
Hmm I wonder why they have it coverd?

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSC01113.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSC03170-2.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSCF0192.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/100_2338x.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/DSC01453.jpg

THERE IS NO REGISTRATION IN MY STATE YOU IDIOT.
When I got my walther p-22 I sent the FACTORY WARRANTY IN WITH MY NAME ON IT.
ARE YOU SLOW?

Do I really need to get more examples?

maybe you missed this?
This is how I got all of my handguns.

Guess I'm a criminal too :-/


EDIT:

Nice XD :D

.No worries. I know. Almost everyone else I've seen covers their serials too. I'm guessing its a security precaution. I never did it myself, but I don't know if I should start.
O/T, I've found a really good solution for long-term gun storage, which I hope to share with you guys one of these days. Just need to get over with the coffee harvest and I'll resume my research activities.:)

It's funny, you still won't give a yes-or-no answer, only "there is no registration in my state" yet I remember you claiming that your rifles you purchased at age 18 are registered in your name. I cannot prove this and of course you can deny it, as you went back and deleted every post you made last night (which wasn't out of your concern for the populace, as you cannot delete my off topic posts as well, you were clearly embarrassed). Regardless, if the handgun is not registered, there is no reason to hide the serial number as it isn't on paper anywhere. Are you afraid Agent 47 is going to stamp your serial number on to a hardballer and drop it at the crime scene?

Perhaps people hide their serial numbers out of their own idiocy and ignorance? There is nothing anyone can do with a number that is not registered, no one knows your handgun exists nor where it lies.

I'd like to add that there is handgun registration in all states in the USA, some states simply allow the option of declining registration. I asked you a simple question, is the handgun registered in your parent's name, I would like a simple answer.

It's funny, you still won't give a yes-or-no answer, only "there is no registration in my state" yet I remember you claiming that your rifles you purchased at age 18 are registered in your name. I cannot prove this and of course you can deny it, as you went back and deleted every post you made last night (which wasn't out of your concern for the populace, as you cannot delete my off topic posts as well, you were clearly embarrassed). Regardless, if the handgun is not registered, there is no reason to hide the serial number as it isn't on paper anywhere. Are you afraid Agent 47 is going to stamp your serial number on to a hardballer and drop it at the crime scene?

Perhaps people hide their serial numbers out of their own idiocy and ignorance? There is nothing anyone can do with a number that is not registered, no one knows your handgun exists nor where it lies.

I'd like to add that there is handgun registration in all states in the USA, some states simply allow the option of declining registration. I asked you a simple question, is the handgun registered in your parent's name, I would like a simple answer. The hand gun WAS PURCHASED BY MY MOTHER AND GIVEN TO ME AS A GIFT SO THEREFORE I OWN It

DUDE, please get this thorugh your tiny pea brain, THERE IS NO REGISTRATION IN ARIZONA PLEASE LOOK UP THE LAWS YOURSELF IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME.
www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=az
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? No

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0006.jpg
Now kindly, STFU!
I am legal dude, you fail.
Yes I am chubby in that pic, it is a few years old. Yes I have long hair in that pic. I do not think I am speacial nor am I full of my self, further proving I am not narcissistic AT ALL.i dont have some huge ego, which you obviously do because you cannot admit you were wrong and just LAY OFF. I know you are getting your insults ready now to fall back on because you were wrong.
Keep comforting yourselves assclowns that's that same "there's NO WAY I could ever be wrong" mentality that keeps you from seeing the truth.

www.allexperts.com/q/Guns-Firearms-Projectile-1501/2008/2/gun-registration-az.htm
Answer
"Rick,

Arizona does not have any 'gun registration' requirement. Some people think the form they fill out when they purchase a gun is a 'registration' when in fact it is simply a record of the transfer from the dealer to the purchaser. BATF requires these 'transfer' documents and requires a firearms dealer to keep them on file. When a gun store goes out of business, they are supposed to transmit the records to BATF, but in reality, it may or may not occur.

You do not need a proof of purchase or any documentation that they are 'registered' to you. I would recommend that you record the serial numbers and model numbers and keep them somewhere safe. This way, if you ever lost a gun or had it stolen, you could give the appropriate info to the police."

Your ignorance makes me sick. NON OF MY GUNS ARE REGISTERED. There is simply a RECORD OF TRANSFER with the batf, this IS NOT registration.
this is a record of transfer from the FFL to the buyer of the firearm. PEOPLE BUY FIREARMS AS GIFTS ALL OF THE TIME and they can buy long arms or handguns for their children. You are right it is not supposed to be in the childs possesion.In MY CASE THIS DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE I AM 20 YEARS OLD. I Will be 21 in november. Even if i was a minor and i say EVEN because I AM NOT, having a picture of a firearm does not even indicate it is in my posession.

Answer
"Rick,

Arizona does not have any 'gun registration' requirement. Some people think the form they fill out when they purchase a gun is a 'registration' when in fact it is simply a record of the transfer from the dealer to the purchaser. BATF requires these 'transfer' documents and requires a firearms dealer to keep them on file. When a gun store goes out of business, they are supposed to transmit the records to BATF, but in reality, it may or may not occur.

You do not need a proof of purchase or any documentation that they are 'registered' to you. I would recommend that you record the serial numbers and model numbers and keep them somewhere safe. This way, if you ever lost a gun or had it stolen, you could give the appropriate info to the police."

Your ignorance makes me sick. NON OF MY GUNS ARE REGISTERED. There IS simply a RECORD OF TRANSFR with the batf, this IS NOT registration.

It is registration, if that gun ends up at a crime scene the BATF will have those "transfers of record" and they will determine who the gun is registered to. Which means, as an example, if that handgun was hypothetically stolen and found at a murder scene law enforcement would contact the BATF who would have those "transfers of record" (REGISTRATION = RECORD) and would determine who the gun is registered to. It would then be later determined, not only by their own admission but by the truckload of incriminating evidence you post in picture form online that your parents were guilty of negligent entrustment of a firearm to a minor. Your parents would spend the rest of their miserable lives in prison should this occur.

You have mistaken "possession" for "ownership". Your parents purchased a handgun and provided it illegally to a minor. It may be in your possession, but it is documented via "transfer of record" that your parents own the handgun as they are the only ones of legal age to own it.

And thanks for proving my point for me, you'll notice I said all states have registration some simply allow their residents to decline registration directly with the BATF. The BATF still has access to who purchased that handgun. It's not much different than obtaining a driver's license, you are automatically signed up for selective service regardless of whether or not you were aware that was common practice. Your handgun is registered in your parent's name and you possess it illegally.

It is registration, if that gun ends up at a crime scene the BATF will have those "transfers of record" and they will determine who the gun is registered to. Which means, as an example, if that handgun was hypothetically stolen and found at a murder scene law enforcement would contact the BATF who would have those "transfers of record" (REGISTRATION = RECORD) and would determine who the gun is registered to. It would then be later determined, not only by their own admission but by the truckload of incriminating evidence you post in picture form online that your parents were guilty of negligent entrustment of a firearm to a minor. Your parents would spend the rest of their miserable lives in prison should this occur.

You have mistaken "possession" for "ownership". Your parents purchased a handgun and provided it illegally to a minor. It may be in your possession, but it is documented via "transfer of record" that your parents own the handgun as they are the only ones of legal age to own it.

And thanks for proving my point for me, you'll notice I said all states have registration some simply allow their residents to decline registration directly with the BATF. The BATF still has access to who purchased that handgun. It's not much different than obtaining a driver's license, you are automatically signed up for selective service regardless of whether or not you were aware that was common practice. Your handgun is registered in your parent's name and you possess it illegally.LOL. HAVE YOU NOT GOT THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD. There is NO LAWS against OWNING a handgun when you are over 18 and under 21. THE LAW STATES THAT YOU HAVE TO be 21 to PURCHASE not POSESS AND OWN. I DO NOT POSESS IT ILLEGALLY. PLEASE GET THIS THROUGH YOUR PUNY BRAIN.

In arizonza you can also OPEN CARRY a PISTOL when you are over 18.
please refer to this:
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/AZSL.pdf






And this:www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=60 :
Caution: Firearm laws are subject to frequent change and court interpretation. This summary is not intended as legal advice or restatement of law. This summary does not include state or local laws,ordinances or regulations. For any particular situation, a licensed local attorney must be consulted for an accurate interpretation.


Under federal law supported by the National Rifle Association, the use of a firearm in a violent or drug-trafficking crime is punishable by a mandatory prison sentence of up to 20 years. A second conviction, if the firearm is a machine gun or is equipped with a silencer, brings life imprisonment without release. Violating firearms laws should lead to very real punishment for violent criminals, but the laws first must be enforced.

Ineligible Persons

The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:

Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
Fugitives from justice.
Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
Illegal aliens.
Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
Persons less than 21 years of age for the PURCHASE* of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.

Acquiring Firearms

The following restrictions apply to firearms acquired through purchase, trade, receipt of gifts, or by other means.

"From Dealers

Provided that federal law and the laws of both the dealer`s and purchaser`s states and localities are complied with:


"An individual 21 years of age or older may ACQUIRE* a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual`s state of residence
An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed dealer in any state
It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm unless the federal firearms licensee receives notice of approval from a prescribed source approving the transfer.

Sale of a firearm by a federally licensed dealer must be documented by a federal form 4473, which identifies and includes other information about the purchaser, and records the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. Sales to an individual of multiple handguns within a five-day period require dealer notification to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Violations of dealer record keeping requirements are punishable by a penalty of up to $1000 and one year`s imprisonment."

It SAYS NOTHING ABOUT POSSESION OR OWNING becaus eTHERE IS NO LAWS AGAINST ON AFEDERAL LEVEL OR STATE LEVEL(in my state atleast). Seriously dude why can't YOU JUST ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG?
And i am the narcissitic one huh? You have an ego the SIZE OF TEXAS. I HAVE TALKED TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT THIS.

There is nothing in that document that says an 18 year old can open carry in the state of Arizona.

There is nothing in that document that says an 18 year old can open carry in the state of Arizona.LOL, I guess thats your way of admitting your wrong. The laws are to show whats PROHIBITED not what is allowed.

"No person shall carry a firearm “concealed on his person.” This does not apply to a person in his dwelling, business premises or on real property owned or leased by that person. A handgun carried in a belt holster which is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage is not considered carrying concealed.
It is unlawful to carry a firearm concealed within the immediate control of any person in or on a means of transportation. This does not apply to firearms carried in a case, holster or scabbard in a means of transportation or a storage compartment, trunk, pack, luggage, or glove compartment of a means of transportation.
Exempt from these prohibitions are peace officers or any person summoned by a peace officer to assist and while actually assisting in the performance of official duties; on-duty military forces of the United States; a person specifically licensed, authorized or permitted pursuant to an Arizona or United States statute.
No person shall, unless specifically authorized by law, enter a public establishment or attend a public event carrying a firearm after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event to remove his firearm and place it in the custody of the operator or sponsor. This does not apply to shooting ranges or shooting events, hunting areas or similar locations or activities.
It is unlawful, unless specifically authorized by law, to enter an election polling place on the day of any election carrying a firearm.
It is unlawful to possess a deadly weapon on grade or high school grounds. This shall not apply to an unloaded firearm within a means of transportation under the control of an adult, provided, if the adult leaves the vehicle, it shall be locked and the unloaded firearm shall not be visible, or for a program approved by the school.
The Department of Public Safety shall issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon to a resident of the state at least 21 years old, a U.S. citizen, who satisfactorily completes an approved firearms safety program, submits fingerprints and a fee determined by the Department of Public Safety, and who does not fall into a class of person prohibited to possess a firearm, such as a convicted felon, adjudicated mental incompetent, or illegal alien. The qualification checks shall be completed within 60 days of receipt of the application, and the permit will be issued within 15 working days after completing the checks. The permit is valid for not more than 4 years and is renewable every 4 years.
The Department of Public Safety shall enter into reciprocal agreements with states that have substantially similar concealed weapons laws so that a concealed weapons permit that is issued by either state may be used by the licensee or permittee within the jurisdiction of either state. Additionally, a person who is a resident of another state who does not have an Arizona permit and is temporarily in the state may carry a concealed weapon without an Arizona permit if the person is legally in the state and the person presents a valid permit from another state that has a fixed expiration date printed on the permit and the state of issue of the permit has disqualification, suspension, and revocation requirements."
There is no federal registration of handguns, thus you can not logically determine that the said handgun is registered as the parents'. Providing firearms to a minor is not illegal in any state I'm aware of under certain stipulations, namely one of which is that the parent or legal guardian is there to supervise its use.

Therefor, my comment about your having said some inflammatorily incorrect statements stands.i have examined these laws very closely. If there is nothing in there that says it is PROHIBITED to open carry a pistol when under 18 then it is NOT PROHIBITED.

I understand that, ilovechronic, but no where in that document is it declared that one can open carry nor is it declared that one can legally own a handgun at age 18. I would invite you to bold the area of the text that does, but I'm sure you'll just bombard me with pictures of your ID and other people's firearms as an argument again.

I understand that, ilovechronic, but no where in that document is it declared that one can open carry nor is it declared that one can legally own a handgun at age 18. I would invite you to bold the area of the text that does, but I'm sure you'll just bombard me with pictures of your ID and other people's firearms as an argument again.

yes those were necessary to get my point across because you are too stubborn to accept my word for it. If there is nothing in there that says it is PROHIBITED to open carry a pistol when under 18 then it is NOT PROHIBITED. The laws do not define what you CAN DO they define what youy CAN'T DO.
also owning the firearm is legal by FEDERAL, that document is STATE LAW.

i am done arguing about this with you now, I have layed it all out for you, proved you wrong and then you try and goto something else to argue with me about.

Random looney is it not common practice to cover the serial numbers when posting pics of them online? Have you not seen ths frequently?

On the rare occasion I post a picture of a firearm I have been in possession of, I make sure to obscure the serial numbers. It probably doesn't matter if I do, but I do it anyway.


also it is legal to purchase a handgun from a private party as long as you are 18 right?

It depends on the state.I can logically determine the handgun is registered to his parents, because he hid the serial number in the picture of his handgun. If his parents purchased it, and he felt the need to hide it, it must be registered to his parents. Otherwise there would be no need to hide it, as it is simply a manufacture marking that doesn't exist as far as the ATF knows. It being a "common practice" is no reasoning for the fact that he hid it. And supplying firearms to a minor is illegal in many states.

This is not true. It is a logical fallacy. I could post a picture of my debit card, which you need my PIN to use properly, with the number edited out, and you could assume I did it so that no one would steel my identity, but that is not the case. A better example is I could say his firearm is stolen. Why else would someone hide his serial numbers? You can not know why he hid them. Claiming to know is a logical fallacy.

Part of the reason people obscure their serial numbers is that is can be possible for various entities to determine who the owners are if they were legitimately purchased from a store with a bound book of acquisition and deposition and/or form 4473's if the FFL they were purchased from has been investigated, or simply inventoried (by the BATFE in the case of the second necessarily, possibly in the first, though local police or other agencies could be responsible there). This is not to say it's always that easy... as there is no federal registration of firearms other than the NFA registry. Therefor you can not assume anything involving the BATFE or registration unless there is a state registration in his state, and in that case you can't necessarily assume the BATFE is involved even though it's likely. The BATFE did have a couple agents caught shredding NFA registrations, after all. It's been claimed by employees that they might have a 50% accuracy rating on those records anyway. If you've ever worked the government, you'd know you can't trust the bureaucracy to actually keep up with paperwork.

That is not to say if I post a serial number from a firearm, that any agency will necessarily have it and the person it was originally sold to, or the last person if it was transferred through an FFL, nor does that mean I am the individual it was sold to on paper instead of private party, which your logic would assume it was, however, it can be used to determine someone's identity in some cases more easily than subpoenas on ISPs. It all depends.

Trust me on this, I've done it before. All kinds of people who shouldn't be able to can do it. It is not necessarily difficult. People obscure their serial numbers for a number of reasons, privacy being among them. This is the internet, after all.

There is nothing in that document that says an 18 year old can open carry in the state of Arizona.
Correct.
Those laws are covered under BATFE regulations pertaining to state laws. They summarize them very clearly along with issues of concealed carry. If you would like, I could provide you with some from a government website.

Chronic, not once in that article is the number "18" even mentioned, aside from a snippet regarding barrel length in shotguns. Nowhere do they discuss open carry of firearms. It does however state that concealed carry permits will only be issued to those at least 21 years of age, which is cannon fodder for my argument. Thank you very much for demonstrating what a buffon you are, once again. Reading works wonders, try it sometime.

And for the love of God stop editing your fucking posts, you cannot fix your idiocy, just refrain from posting if you're that worried about your reputation online.

honestly I obscure the serial numbers because that is what I have seen everyone else do, so i follow the crowd on that one.


Correct.
Those laws are covered under BATFE regulations pertaining to state laws. They summarize them very clearly along with issues of concealed carry. If you would like, I could provide you with some from a government website.

sigh, he really doesn't care, he is just arguing for the sake of arguing now.

i will tell you one of the reasons i know, a dumb little wannabe gangster shot at my friends little bro. He was ccaught and charged and is in jail. But a week before it happend he was stopped because of complaints of a sketchy person carrying a gun. The police couldn't do anything because he was over 18and open carrying. Thisvis what a police officer told me PERSONALLY.

R_L I'd love to give your concerns regarding logical fallacies some thought, had Chronic here not just given a post-guilt confession with the posting of that article.

Here you go:
www.opencarry.org/az.html :
Minimum Age to OC 18

Arizona

Summary
Arizona is one of our "Gold Star" open carry states. There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws, open carry is common and law enforcement is well educated as to its legality. NOTE:Tribal reservations have their own laws and should be avoided or researched prior to visiting.






Legal Disclaimer We make every effort to provide correct information on this site. However, the legal landscape surrounding open carry is fluid and subject to a myriad of political influences in the various states. Therefore, any and all information you glean from this site should be independently verified!

Forum To read real open carry stories from Arizona or to contribute your own, click here

State Constitution Article 2 Section 26

The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

Minimum Age to OC 18

Preemption Complete preemption of firearms laws except localities may still limit firearms possession in parks or preserves to persons who possess a concealed weapons permit.

NOTE: Almost all states allow local regulation of the discharge of firearms

Open Car Carry You may open carry in a vehicle either in plain view OR in a glove box.

Private Sales Not Yet Determined

Permit Issued Not Yet Determined

K-12 Carry Not Yet Determined

NOTE: The Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act Restricts Carry to Permit Holders

College Carry Carry Prohibited by Statute

NOTE: Even if Legal, Students May be Subject to Academic Sanctions



you re welcome for doing all the work for you.
/ end of argument!

That website also says it has "yet to be determined" regarding the legality of private purchase in Arizona, contrary to your claims that it is entirely legal to privately purchase firearms at your age in your state. Opencarry is not known to be a reliable source for laws by state.

That website also says it has "yet to be determined" regarding the legality of private purchase in Arizona, contrary to your claims that it is entirely legal to privately purchase firearms at your age in your state. Opencarry is not known to be a reliable source for laws by state.

Dude I DID NOT CLAIM anything about private party sales. I simply asked a quetion if it WAS LEGAL. Sigh, dude you just dont give up. All my firearms were purchased from a federally licensed firearms dealer. also efer to the arizona state laws, there are no laws againstprivate party sales and that is why it says yet to be determined.

Random looney i am going to have to call troll now. Seriously.

Maybe it isnt, but the police department is. Go ahead call the police departments.

i will not do you the favor of sparing you the embarassment of proving you wrong this time. Have a good day.

Yeah you asked a question about it here, on this day, but last night you left a thousand little smartass remarks regarding private purchase in Arizona. The only downside for me is that I was not aware of your OCD ass tendencies to delete every fucking post you make when you grasp the insurmountable idiocy that you are capable of. Otherwise I would have quoted your posts and the proof would be right there. Eat shit and die you ignorant cocksucker, I'm so sick and god damned tired of your retardation.

Please try and be more civil. Several members seem to have indicated that your tone offends them to the point they enjoy the forum less.

Please try and be more civil. Several members seem to have indicated that your tone offends them to the point they enjoy the forum less.
This is why I deleted allof the useless posts in this thread the first time.

Me? My bad, i admit this guy was getting to me. I apologize for offending any of the regulars. Like i said, I do not like people making accusations about me or my family commiting a crime. This is why I had to prove him wrong today.
Yeah you asked a question about it here, on this day, but last night you left a thousand little smartass remarks regarding private purchase in Arizona. The only downside for me is that I was not aware of your OCD ass tendencies to delete every fucking post you make when you grasp the insurmountable idiocy that you are capable of. Otherwise I would have quoted your posts and the proof would be right there. Eat shit and die you ignorant cocksucker, I'm so sick and god damned tired of your retardation.
I am afraid you are the only one that is ignorant here. I new these laws from the start.


Now that our flame fest/argument is done, i will kindly delete all most posts that are not on topic.Maybe you missed this. i did not make one statment about private party sales, all I was doing was defending my self from your accusations. I made one comment in anothr thread about your comment " use private party sales, no paper trails," so who really is the one that has something to hide here.

if you do not believe private party sales are legal in arizona then it is your turn. Lets see you post something that says it is prohibited. Nice try. You really put a good effort but other than that, you proved nothing.

Me? My bad, i admit this guy was getting to me. I apologize for offending any of the regulars. Like i said, I do not like people making accusations about me or my family commiting a crime. This is why I had to prove him wrong today.

No, Martin. I'm sure you don't help, but I definitely understand. I can be guilty of becoming embroiled in heated discussion as well.

No, Martin. I'm sure you don't help, but I definitely understand. I can be guilty of becoming embroiled in heated discussion as well.Yeah you see where I am coming from.

I admit I was using some not so nice langauge. That is where I am different from Martian, I can admit i was WRONG because my ego is not the size of my state.

Once again if I offended any of the contributing members of W&C I am sorry for that.

He's obviously trying to get the reaction, so it's understandable, though not the proper way to deal with him.

He's obviously trying to get the reaction, so it's understandable, though not the proper way to deal with him.

Yeah thats why I am calling him a troll. It seems everytime I prove my point he finds something else to provoke me. Anyway thank you random_looney, you helped open my eyes to his trollness, I will refrain now. I have a stock to sand anyway.

On the rare occasion I post a picture of a firearm I have been in possession of, I make sure to obscure the serial numbers. It probably doesn't matter if I do, but I do it anyway.


Seriously guys, why do people cover their serials?
It's making me more and more curious.

Seriously guys, why do people cover their serials?
It's making me more and more curious.

Random looney explained a few things in that post about some of the reasons why. Because LEO can trace it to you but ultimately he said it was probaably for privacy, since it is after all, the internet.

Random looney explained a few things in that post about some of the reasons why. Because LEO can trace it to you but ultimately he said it was probaably for privacy, since it is after all, the internet.

Sounds totally reasonable. I do believe it was off the rocker implying it had criminal reasons behind it.
But like everyone said, don't worry about it. I do have a nagging suspicion that the recent influx of new accounts into W&C were all done by the same person, because they all have the same tone. And its definitely not a W&C regular.

Sounds totally reasonable. I do believe it was off the rocker implying it had criminal reasons behind it.
But like everyone said, don't worry about it. I do have a nagging suspicion that the recent influx of new accounts into W&C were all done by the same person, because they all have the same tone. And its definitely not a W&C regular.

You know it kind of seems like that. there were 3 or 4 of them that just came in here bitching about one thing or another. I thought the mods or admins can tell when someone is using multiple accounts on the same computer? IIRC that is a bannable offense.

Unless it's a mod who's doing it?!? :eek:

Sounds totally reasonable. I do believe it was off the rocker implying it had criminal reasons behind it.
But like everyone said, don't worry about it. I do have a nagging suspicion that the recent influx of new accounts into W&C were all done by the same person, because they all have the same tone. And its definitely not a W&C regular.

I can't post any pics of my American-held guns anymore due to ATF. All my American-illegals got shipped to a lawless south American country (same with the servants :p, jk).

You know it kind of seems like that. there were 3 or 4 of them that just came in here bitching about one thing or another. I thought the mods or admins can tell when someone is using multiple accounts on the same computer? IIRC that is a bannable offense.

I'm not going to give away any secrets, but sometimes it's hard to do, whether that's because of admins or other reasons.

I'm not going to give away any secrets, but sometimes it's hard to do, whether that's because of admins or other reasons.

and they can use proxies.

I can't post any pics of my American-held guns anymore due to ATF. All my American-illegals got shipped to a lawless south American country (same with the servants :p, jk).

Speaking of which, if one posseses guns in the US in one's property, but is a non-resident alien, is it legal if one purchased them private-party?
thanks,
Lava

Ermm...

You can't sell guns to non-citizens in the US.

Speaking of which, if one posseses guns in the US in one's property, but is a non-resident alien, is it legal if one purchased them private-party?
thanks,
Lava

[CITE: 18USC922]


TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS


Sec. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful--


(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
deliver--
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee
knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years
of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun
or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual
who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less
than twenty-one years of age;
(2) any firearm to any person in any State where the purchase or
possession by such person of such firearm would be in violation of
any State law or any published ordinance applicable at the place of
sale, delivery or other disposition, unless the licensee knows or
has reasonable cause to believe that the purchase or possession
would not be in violation of such State law or such published
ordinance;
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has
reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is
a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of
business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is
located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale
or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other
than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if
the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the
transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the
legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed
manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of
this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to
have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances
of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a
firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes;


[...]

(y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant
Visas.--
(1) Definitions.--In this subsection--
(A) the term ``alien'' has the same meaning as in section
101(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C.
1101(a)(3)); and
(B) the term ``nonimmigrant visa'' has the same meaning as
in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8
U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)).

(2) Exceptions.--Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and
(s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully
admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that
alien is--
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or
sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or
permit lawfully issued in the United States;
(B) an official representative of a foreign government who
is--
(i) accredited to the United States Government or the
Government's mission to an international organization having
its headquarters in the United States; or
(ii) en route to or from another country to which that
alien is accredited;

(C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished
foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of
State; or
(D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign
government entering the United States on official law
enforcement business.

(3) Waiver.--
(A) Conditions for waiver.--Any individual who has been
admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa may
receive a waiver from the requirements of subsection (g)(5),
if--
(i) the individual submits to the Attorney General a
petition that meets the requirements of subparagraph (C);
and
(ii) the Attorney General approves the petition.

(B) Petition.--Each petition under subparagraph (B) shall--
(i) demonstrate that the petitioner has resided in the
United States for a continuous period of not less than 180
days before the date on which the petition is submitted
under this paragraph; and
(ii) include a written statement from the embassy or
consulate of the petitioner, authorizing the petitioner to
acquire a firearm or ammunition and certifying that the
alien would not, absent the application of subsection
(g)(5)(B), otherwise be prohibited from such acquisition
under subsection (g).

(C) Approval of petition.--The Attorney General shall
approve a petition submitted in accordance with this paragraph,
if the Attorney General determines that waiving the requirements
of subsection (g)(5)(B) with respect to the petitioner--
(i) would be in the interests of justice; and
(ii) would not jeopardize the public safety.

[CITE: 18USC922]


TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS


Sec. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful--


(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
deliver--
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee
knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years
of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun
or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual
who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less
than twenty-one years of age;
(2) any firearm to any person in any State where the purchase or
possession by such person of such firearm would be in violation of
any State law or any published ordinance applicable at the place of
sale, delivery or other disposition, unless the licensee knows or
has reasonable cause to believe that the purchase or possession
would not be in violation of such State law or such published
ordinance;
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has
reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is
a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of
business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is
located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale
or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other
than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if
the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the
transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the
legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed
manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of
this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to
have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances
of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a
firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes;


[...]

(y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant
Visas.--
(1) Definitions.--In this subsection--
(A) the term ``alien'' has the same meaning as in section
101(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C.
1101(a)(3)); and
(B) the term ``nonimmigrant visa'' has the same meaning as
in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8
U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)).

(2) Exceptions.--Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and
(s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully
admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that
alien is--
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or
sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or
permit lawfully issued in the United States;
(B) an official representative of a foreign government who
is--
(i) accredited to the United States Government or the
Government's mission to an international organization having
its headquarters in the United States; or
(ii) en route to or from another country to which that
alien is accredited;

(C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished
foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of
State; or
(D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign
government entering the United States on official law
enforcement business.

(3) Waiver.--
(A) Conditions for waiver.--Any individual who has been
admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa may
receive a waiver from the requirements of subsection (g)(5),
if--
(i) the individual submits to the Attorney General a
petition that meets the requirements of subparagraph (C);
and
(ii) the Attorney General approves the petition.

(B) Petition.--Each petition under subparagraph (B) shall--
(i) demonstrate that the petitioner has resided in the
United States for a continuous period of not less than 180
days before the date on which the petition is submitted
under this paragraph; and
(ii) include a written statement from the embassy or
consulate of the petitioner, authorizing the petitioner to
acquire a firearm or ammunition and certifying that the
alien would not, absent the application of subsection
(g)(5)(B), otherwise be prohibited from such acquisition
under subsection (g).

(C) Approval of petition.--The Attorney General shall
approve a petition submitted in accordance with this paragraph,
if the Attorney General determines that waiving the requirements
of subsection (g)(5)(B) with respect to the petitioner--
(i) would be in the interests of justice; and
(ii) would not jeopardize the public safety.

Am I right in thinking that while it says there that it is unlawful for a licensed dealer to perform such a sale, a private party purchase does not involve a licensed dealer?
I'm beggining to get the feeling this will end up in uncle bob's:o. And that is not totally good because I enjoy. being an upstanding citizen and keeping on the good side of the law:(.

And that is not totally good because I enjoy. being an upstanding citizen and keeping on the good side of the law:(.

Protip: The law never made men a whit more just, and, by means of their respect for it, even the well disposed are daily made the agents of injustice.

Protip: The law never made men a whit more just, and, by means of their respect for it, even the well disposed are daily made the agents of injustice.

True, and sometimes, protecting one's loved ones requires that one fall prey to injustice. But doing something that is not lawful would make me feel immoral. For real.