"The soft and yielding will always overcome the hard and rigid, everyone knows this, but few can put it into practice."
TaoTeChing

Any thoughts? Has anyone ever applied this to their daily life and seen what the outcome is? Is this quote speaking of a physical as well as psychological reality? I have lived on this planet for 27 odd years, and the more I try to put this principle into action the more I see it working, but is it a measure of strength? Is it strong to be inflexible? An object that always yields can not be broken, but it has no definite structure. Psychologically we believe ourselves to be definite structures, however our bodies do not last forever, our thoughts continually change. Hell we can't even pay attention for more than a few minutes at a time before our mind begins wandering. So my question is, how do you measure strength?

Probably the persons abbility to impose their will on their situation. A weak person will surrender to their problems while a strong person will fix them and gain from it.
That being said I am so apathetic about my situation at the moment I probably fall into the former catagory but hopefully I am taking the right steps to change it.

"The soft and yielding will always overcome the hard and rigid, everyone knows this, but few can put it into practice."
TaoTeChing

Any thoughts? Has anyone ever applied this to their daily life and seen what the outcome is? Is this quote speaking of a physical as well as psychological reality? I have lived on this planet for 27 odd years, and the more I try to put this principle into action the more I see it working, but is it a measure of strength? Is it strong to be inflexible? An object that always yields can not be broken, but it has no definite structure. Psychologically we believe ourselves to be definite structures, however our bodies do not last forever, our thoughts continually change. Hell we can't even pay attention for more than a few minutes at a time before our mind begins wandering. So my question is, how do you measure strength?

hmm. I would say either extreme, being too soft and yielding or being too stiff and rigid are both just as negative.

The best parallel I can think of is what I learned in High School about parenting. There are three types of parents: "the brick wall parent" this parent is hard as fuck and will not allow anything to go by without punishment. "the jellyfish parent" This parent allows their kid to do anything and has no expectations etc. The last class of parent is "the backbone parent" this parent has rules, but does make exceptions sometimes and isnt as hard as a brick wall, nor as soft as a jellyfish. It is believed that the backbone parent is the superior class of parent.

Anyways, I think those rules apply to people in all facets of life. You need a balance of the hard and the soft.

So take some of the Tao teachings and follow them. Take some of the teachings of Art of War and follow them. Be balanced.

People who fiend Buddhism like the Dalai Lama etc. are to me the same as someone who fiends something else but on the other side of the spectrum, like Hitler.

I think he is talking about flexibility. Not necessarily our 21st century notion of being "soft."

The best parallel I can think of is what I learned in High School about parenting. There are three types of parents: "the brick wall parent" this parent is hard as fuck and will not allow anything to go by without punishment. "the jellyfish parent" This parent allows their kid to do anything and has no expectations etc. The last class of parent is "the backbone parent" this parent has rules, but does make exceptions sometimes and isnt as hard as a brick wall, nor as soft as a jellyfish. It is believed that the backbone parent is the superior class of parent.



That sound like some real bullshit parenting lessons. Besides most jellyfish have a pretty nasty sting even the analogy doesn't fucking work.


Being soft and yielding is only any use in as much as it allows you to wait for the right moment to exert your power and lulls your oponent into a feeling of superiority.

Yielding to everything will win you nothing that is not given to you. Going for everything will get you as much as your ability allows. Waiting for the right moment, can get you anything.

I just made that up but it sounds reasonable to me.

Being soft and yielding is only any use in as much as it allows you to wait for the right moment to exert your power and lulls your oponent into a feeling of superiority.

Yielding to everything will win you nothing that is not given to you. Going for everything will get you as much as your ability allows. Waiting for the right moment, can get you anything.

I just made that up but it sounds reasonable to me.

I have a couple problems with this. Yielding to someone is not just a method of attack (ie. lulling into a false sense of security) it is a way to get on in society. We can not always be "hard," we often have to yield to others in order to make anything work. Sorry if I missed the point with this. Is this the proper context?

For the second bit, "Going for everything will get you as much as your ability allows" I would add ability and circumstances. Just a little semantical issue is all.....

Yielding to someone is never a positive thing. The way I see the word yield it implies the person doing the yielding is inferior. Anyhow in terms of the OPs point yielding will not beat strength. Giving away concessions will only encourage the people getting them to try harder.

Second point, certainly. After all the yielding to look weak waiting for the right moment is all about creating the situation.

Giving away concessions will only encourage the people getting them to try harder.

It is in my opinion very important to make concessions. Especially to those as you view weaker/inferior. If you always be strong and take, take, take, then you will become a walking cross-hair.

Consciously deciding when and what you will concede to actually gives you power over a situation.

If people didn't make concessions things would have fallen apart long ago. You can't always get what you want....

Giving away concessions (maybe not strong enough a word for what I meant, more like submitting maybe, although concession does mean to yield) does not equal coming to an understanding or some sort of compromise. You can't go around giving shit away for nothing (and i don't mean that necessarily in the material sense) and expect to get anywhere, you will be sucked dry. I did not say you should always get what you want surely this is obvious, if you are always submitting it means someone else is always getting what they want. As the orgional quote said to always yield, if you agree with that then it means you actually do think someone should always get what they want, just not you. I think everyone should get what they want obviously this is impossible. The fact is though that everyone does want and that means there is a lot of competition and if you think you will get anywhere being soft feel free to try.

I am interested to hear how this philosophy has benefited Ilbastardoh, as he wrote in his OP.

yes i have, this is true in most cases, espescially sense most "badasses" are extreme pussies. being soft and yeilding lets you find the "hardend bamfs" weaknesses, after a while dont back down and beat the fuck out of the kid while still being humble this will put you at one of the most feared people

yes i have, this is true in most cases, espescially sense most "badasses" are extreme pussies. being soft and yeilding lets you find the "hardend bamfs" weaknesses, after a while dont back down and beat the fuck out of the kid while still being humble this will put you at one of the most feared people

Stupid?

Take for example your arm, when the arm is extended and rigid it is easy to break, as opposed to an arm that is slightly bent and able to yield. I'm not saying be a pushover, I'm saying to yield as a palm tree that bends with the wind so as not to snap. If real strength is control, then he who controls his circumstances the most per unit of effort is the strongest. The ability to insist your point while not offending the fragile egos of the people you are trying to convince is a good example of yielding to the situation.

a time for peace, a time for war

a time to be a wall, a time to be ant-like small

I think he is talking about flexibility. Not necessarily our 21st century notion of being "soft."

Bingo.

You guys should read the whole book before you try to interpret the line. It's all about flexibility, not about being a pussy or backing down. There's a line about how living things are green and supple, but dead things are hard and brittle.

It's about recognizing the flow of the universe and acting in accordance with it rather than trying to fight the way things are. For example, death is inevitable. Fighting against it is pointless.

Be content with what you have.
Rejoice in the way things are.
When you realize nothing is lacking
the whole world belongs to you.

They say that you wouldn't bait a fishhook with a piece of chocolate cake, you'd bait it with a worm. You would appeal to the fish's desires if you wish to be successful in your persuit of it.

Maybe that's flexibility. I'm not sure how you deciphered the quote, but that's how I did.

"The soft and yielding will always overcome the hard and rigid, everyone knows this, but few can put it into practice."
TaoTeChing

Any thoughts? Has anyone ever applied this to their daily life and seen what the outcome is? Is this quote speaking of a physical as well as psychological reality? I have lived on this planet for 27 odd years, and the more I try to put this principle into action the more I see it working, but is it a measure of strength? Is it strong to be inflexible? An object that always yields can not be broken, but it has no definite structure. Psychologically we believe ourselves to be definite structures, however our bodies do not last forever, our thoughts continually change. Hell we can't even pay attention for more than a few minutes at a time before our mind begins wandering. So my question is, how do you measure strength?

It all depends on what strength you are looking for...in certain engineering tasks, a steel cable is always better than a steel rod....

while in other applications...using a steel bar is better .....

but in the end .... there's no such thing as strength..... like the saying suggests...the ability to overcome something isn't strength.....

I have always been the soft type, yielding to others, taking the hit, helping others who need help...and I have always got a stick up my arse at some point during the course of the run. I tend to believe other people are what they appear to be, others can even tell me they are snakes and I will still see only the good and get vandalized. So, I don't know, the only way I could see it actually work is if I had no interpersonal relationships and stayed the hell away from people in general.

Ever been rock climbing? Or shooting at a rifle range?

The key to success at these (and many other) endevours is relaxation and harmony with yourself and the rock, or yourself and the rifle. Not muscling your way up the face, or gripping the rifle with all your strength. I have recently began to ponder if this is the key to everything. Could a relaxed, flowing, harmonious focus ALWAYS overcome a forced, tough approach?