Are they really worth it?

I mean, I guess they're cool and all, but does it really increase performance that's worth the money?

Not really.

Are they really worth it?

I mean, I guess they're cool and all, but does it really increase performance that's worth the money?

Most of the gains you get from them are actually just because they're less restrictive and turbulent than the stock intake. If they're not set up correctly, they'll just feed your engine hot or warm air, which is no good. You've got to put the filter somewhere it's exposed to cold air, such as hanging in the headlight cup, or down the side of the front air dams. Over the radiator is my preference.

Ha, my friend did that once. He put the intake on his "cold air scoop" down near the exhaust manifold.

He couldn't understand why I couldn't stop laughing.

It won't do shit unless you do it along with other things. Unless the standard intake is a pile of shit with downs syndrome then you'd be lucky to see a 1hp increase on a dyno, and you would not be able to feel that.

Pretty much what I'm thinkin. Thanks all

Modern cars already suck air from places where it is relatively cold.

Not worth it.

Modern cars already suck air from places where it is relatively cold.

Not worth it.

Modern cars are shit though.

Modern cars already suck air from places where it is relatively cold.

Not worth it.

QFT

5char

Modern cars are shit though.

http://www.zcars.com.au/images/dodge-viper-srt10-acr31.jpg

I'm sorry I can't quite hear you over the win.

on a speed density system (no MAF just TPS and MAP) you will see absolutely no increase without an ecm flash. If your system does have a MAF the increase will be so low it will not be worth buying.

if you want to increase the performance of your stock vehicle:
get better tires
remove every bit of weight you can
save the money to make sure the maintenance is kept up

on a speed density system (no MAF just TPS and MAP) you will see absolutely no increase without an ecm flash. If your system does have a MAF the increase will be so low it will not be worth buying.

if you want to increase the performance of your stock vehicle:
get better tires
remove every bit of weight you can
save the money to make sure the maintenance is kept up

Thanks man. Probably the best reply I've got so far

I didnt read any replies in this thread so I dunno if you already have this info or not.

Most cars draw cool air in from the fender or somewhere similar. Just take your stock air filter housing off and youll see where Im talking about. The only thing a cold air intake is gonna do for you is eliminate a couple restrictions in the system if there are any. Also it might be pretty if youre into that sort of thing.

Some cars might require changes to the ECU to take advantage of a CAI. I know the subaru EJ20 and EJ25 engines do. Most aftermarket intakes are a bigger diameter than stock so it screws with the air that the mass airflow sensor measures.

http://www.zcars.com.au/images/dodge-viper-srt10-acr31.jpg

I'm sorry I can't quite hear you over the win.

It got canned. Not quite so much win anymore.

It got canned. Not quite so much win anymore.

Slated to be discontinued in 2011, or sold as a brand.

That is if Chrysler isn't toast by next month.

But it is still win.

Cold air intakes are as a whole bullshit. Simple as that.

on a speed density system (no MAF just TPS and MAP) you will see absolutely no increase without an ecm flash. If your system does have a MAF the increase will be so low it will not be worth buying.

if you want to increase the performance of your stock vehicle:
get better tires
remove every bit of weight you can
save the money to make sure the maintenance is kept up

QFT, only thing I'd like to add is, I have a CAI on my car I bought it with it equipped its a DINAN carbon fiber 5" intake, first of all, there's NO possible way that my engine could spin so fast as to use all of that air, and my injectors couldn't pump enough gas to match the amount of air. It cost 500 bucks with a new less restrictive MAF and I think it's really quite silly, on the board is says it gives 8hp, with the intake in front of my front right tire where it is very suseptable to water when it rains .

foot notes: Make sure the air is actually cold, and if it's cheap, and if you have the money. why not?

I'll answer that question, because if you put the fucking thing in front of your front right tire you have to drive on your tippy toes when ever it rains. -.-

$500...for 8 horsepower?

Bitch, get a performance engine chip and some camshafts or something.

$500...for 8 horsepower?

Bitch, get a performance engine chip and some camshafts or something.

I did not buy it, and it already has a performance chip, and it already has variable timing cams.

I did not buy it, and it already has a performance chip, and it already has variable timing cams.

Sorry, I don't remember, what is your car?

Sorry, I don't remember, what is your car?

1998 BMW 540i

http://www.zcars.com.au/images/dodge-viper-srt10-acr31.jpg

I'm sorry I can't quite hear you over the win.

http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/images/images_projects/project1_3.jpg

SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE MADNESS

cold air intakes are good for one thing only and that is slurpping up water from puddles and hydroforming connecting rods:D

It depends on the motor really, from my experience you'll see about 7-10whp max on bigger motors and about 3-4 on the 4 bangers. Nothing really to noticeable when I installed my cold air intake on the 240 I just noticed a bit more low end top end kind of suffered so i switched to the short ram air and it seems to help better in the top. You do get a really cool sound though :p

You idiots are all, well, idiots.

Yes, they are worth it. $ per hp its the best money you can spend on a car (except for the free mods).

It's not due to the cold air so much as the difference in filter/flow (cold air vs short ram is maybe a .5% improvement, compared to a just over 5% advantage over stock airbox). The stock intake usually has half a dozen bends and a poor filter, a CAI has half a bend and a performance filter. I agree that the top-end, brand name thing is all BS, but you can put a k&n filter on an ebay intake and have 5-10* more hp for 40$. That and it sounds meaner at full throttle, in a good way.

Not only that, but its a bit lighter than the stock system, and the install is easy. Took me about 30 minutes, but I had to jack up the car and remove part of the wheel liner to fully extricate it.

@angryonion: If you are driving through water a few inches deep, maybe. And its hydrolocking, not hydroforming. I've driven through decent puddles at low speeds and torrential rains at high speeds and it is not an issue for 99% of drivers




*When you go WOT you can easily feel the difference, and yes dyno charts back me up on this one. I can link to them if you don't believe me.

Edit: To that idiot ranting about MAP and MAF and the like.
MAF - Mass Air Flow - It can see the improved flow and inject correctly. No reflash needed, non-insignificant change
MAP - Manifold absolute pressure - The engine sucks in air... changing pressure, and if there it is easier to suck there is less of a pressure change... and it compensates correctly. No reflash needed, good improvement. You sir, are and idiot.

Edit2: Not you green, you snuck in while i was posting

http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/images/images_projects/project1_3.jpg

SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE MADNESS

I saw that and I pictured a big bearded German man screaming that in an exaggerated German accent

You idiots are all, well, idiots.

Yes, they are worth it. $ per hp its the best money you can spend on a car (except for the free mods).

It's not due to the cold air so much as the difference in filter/flow (cold air vs short ram is maybe a .5% improvement, compared to a just over 5% advantage over stock airbox). The stock intake usually has half a dozen bends and a poor filter, a CAI has half a bend and a performance filter. I agree that the top-end, brand name thing is all BS, but you can put a k&n filter on an ebay intake and have 5-10* more hp for 40$. That and it sounds meaner at full throttle, in a good way.

1)

Just over 5%? So somewhere between 5 and 6%? That much accuracy is reasonable because all cars and engines are the same and will receive the same benefit from all cold air intakes, which are also all the same. /sarcasm.

2)

A CAI has half a bend? Again, this is a reasonable proposal since all CAIs are the same. /sarcasm.

3)

Assuming CAIs really do all have only half a bend, then if you can draw a line a fair few inches in diameter with only one half (whatever that means) of a bend from the intake of your manifold to cold air, then congratulations, you have a 4 banger in a muscle car engine bay. If not, your 'cold air' intake is in fact, a 'warm air' intake.

Protip: If your cold air intake is sucking in air from inside the engine bay, then that sir, is counterproductive.

I saw that and I pictured a big bearded German man screaming that in an exaggerated German accent

*Ze madness

*Ze madness

To be honest, I was just thinking that, and now I'm cracking up.

NINE NINE I CANNOT HEOR YOU OVER ZE MADNESS

You idiots are all, well, idiots.

Yes, they are worth it. $ per hp its the best money you can spend on a car (except for the free mods).

It's not due to the cold air so much as the difference in filter/flow (cold air vs short ram is maybe a .5% improvement, compared to a just over 5% advantage over stock airbox). The stock intake usually has half a dozen bends and a poor filter, a CAI has half a bend and a performance filter. I agree that the top-end, brand name thing is all BS, but you can put a k&n filter on an ebay intake and have 5-10* more hp for 40$. That and it sounds meaner at full throttle, in a good way.

Not only that, but its a bit lighter than the stock system, and the install is easy. Took me about 30 minutes, but I had to jack up the car and remove part of the wheel liner to fully extricate it.

@angryonion: If you are driving through water a few inches deep, maybe. And its hydrolocking, not hydroforming. I've driven through decent puddles at low speeds and torrential rains at high speeds and it is not an issue for 99% of drivers




*When you go WOT you can easily feel the difference, and yes dyno charts back me up on this one. I can link to them if you don't believe me.

Edit: To that idiot ranting about MAP and MAF and the like.
MAF - Mass Air Flow - It can see the improved flow and inject correctly. No reflash needed, non-insignificant change
MAP - Manifold absolute pressure - The engine sucks in air... changing pressure, and if there it is easier to suck there is less of a pressure change... and it compensates correctly. No reflash needed, good improvement. You sir, are and idiot.

Edit2: Not you green, you snuck in while i was posting

Wtf? You call us idiots? Nereth's already pointed out why you're a jackass so I can't be fucked doing it again. I would not be spending more than a few dollars on anything that only made 5-10hp over what it already did. Fuck I spent $120AUD and got a stage 3 cam (and yes I know the staging of stuff is retarded is just an easy way to explain it). Stock intakes will usually have the required bends and filter to provide the best characteristics in any situation. Do you really think OEMs are going to put shithouse filters on their cars? OEM stuff, at least from Holden which is what I deal in, is usually the best for replacement parts.
Probably the most important thing everyone is missing, is does a stock civic/insert other shitbox econocar here really need an extra 5-10hp that you can't feel? Of course not, because its a fucking econobox not a bloody racecar. Anything remotely built for any sort of performance is already going to have a decent induction system.

EDIT: Also wheel dyno or engine dyno? Whp readings mean shit all.

Here we go again.
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/5/5e/Awesome_hurr_hurr.png/600px-Awesome_hurr_hurr.png

Trolls : O
Geaheads : What, 5? 10?

I would never trust dyno comparisons unless there are very significant differences anyhow. A change in room temperature, pressure, engine temperature, etc, all will effect the engines output significantly.

I would never trust dyno comparisons unless there are very significant differences anyhow. A change in room temperature, pressure, engine temperature, etc, all will effect the engines output significantly.

As does the person doing the settings of the dyno, such as the intake temp. The higher that is the more the dyno readout will compensate for it and the power reading will be higher.

The unwarranted self importance (polished off with being unbelievabley wrong) in that MH kidiot's post actually made me laugh out loud when I read it.

Don't mind what he says, he was born and raised a retard.

You idiots are all, well, idiots.

Yes, they are worth it. $ per hp its the best money you can spend on a car (except for the free mods).

It's not due to the cold air so much as the difference in filter/flow (cold air vs short ram is maybe a .5% improvement, compared to a just over 5% advantage over stock airbox). The stock intake usually has half a dozen bends and a poor filter, a CAI has half a bend and a performance filter. I agree that the top-end, brand name thing is all BS, but you can put a k&n filter on an ebay intake and have 5-10* more hp for 40$. That and it sounds meaner at full throttle, in a good way.

Not only that, but its a bit lighter than the stock system, and the install is easy. Took me about 30 minutes, but I had to jack up the car and remove part of the wheel liner to fully extricate it.

@angryonion: If you are driving through water a few inches deep, maybe. And its hydrolocking, not hydroforming. I've driven through decent puddles at low speeds and torrential rains at high speeds and it is not an issue for 99% of drivers




*When you go WOT you can easily feel the difference, and yes dyno charts back me up on this one. I can link to them if you don't believe me.

Edit: To that idiot ranting about MAP and MAF and the like.
MAF - Mass Air Flow - It can see the improved flow and inject correctly. No reflash needed, non-insignificant change
MAP - Manifold absolute pressure - The engine sucks in air... changing pressure, and if there it is easier to suck there is less of a pressure change... and it compensates correctly. No reflash needed, good improvement. You sir, are and idiot.

Edit2: Not you green, you snuck in while i was posting

i know i shouldnt feed the troll/kidiot, but i am an ASE certified master technician. my knowledge on cars comes from real experience and training, not reading the aftermarket products' website.

i can understand why you want so badly for your fake improvements to work,...you were dumb enough to pay for them. its okay, i a few years you'll understand you were just being a silly child

You idiots are all, well, idiots.

Yes, they are worth it. $ per hp its the best money you can spend on a car (except for the free mods).

It's not due to the cold air so much as the difference in filter/flow (cold air vs short ram is maybe a .5% improvement, compared to a just over 5% advantage over stock airbox). The stock intake usually has half a dozen bends and a poor filter, a CAI has half a bend and a performance filter. I agree that the top-end, brand name thing is all BS, but you can put a k&n filter on an ebay intake and have 5-10* more hp for 40$. That and it sounds meaner at full throttle, in a good way.

Not only that, but its a bit lighter than the stock system, and the install is easy. Took me about 30 minutes, but I had to jack up the car and remove part of the wheel liner to fully extricate it.

....


So, your saying a $40 dollar part gave you 5-10hp?

If if cost you $40, it would have cost the manufactures about $10, So my question is this:

If 5-10hp increase is that cheap, then why didn't the manufacturer install a CAI as STANDARD?

Oh, that's right, because it makes no noticeable difference to the power output / performance of the engine.

You really think some cheap CAI from ebay has had more design put into it than an intake a proper car manufacturer has designed?



Note: This is in regard to the normal everyday cars, not performance / race cars.

Thank you MH, and thank you everyone.

This thread has been one awesome laugh since he posted.


10hp from a free-flowing air filter? Maybe if you had an oil-bath filter...and it hadn't been cleaned in ages...it might. But the difference over a stock filter on a fairly stock engine is much, much smaller than 10hp.

1)

Just over 5%? So somewhere between 5 and 6%? That much accuracy is reasonable because all cars and engines are the same and will receive the same benefit from all cold air intakes, which are also all the same. /sarcasm.

2)

A CAI has half a bend? Again, this is a reasonable proposal since all CAIs are the same. /sarcasm.

3)

Assuming CAIs really do all have only half a bend, then if you can draw a line a fair few inches in diameter with only one half (whatever that means) of a bend from the intake of your manifold to cold air, then congratulations, you have a 4 banger in a muscle car engine bay. If not, your 'cold air' intake is in fact, a 'warm air' intake.

Protip: If your cold air intake is sucking in air from inside the engine bay, then that sir, is counterproductive.

1) You just tried to say that "over" means exactly 1%, and then attack me on my specificity. Mayhaps I intentionally left it vague for the very reason that cars are different, as you brought up. But when you said cars were different you meant that since cars were different none of them can benefit from a cai. hrmmm.
2) If a standard bend is 90* sure, about half. Or maybe it's poetic license to emphasize the role that intake flow plays.
3) Yes, I have a 4banger in a typically v6 car and moved the battery for a straight shot. I'm ok with that. And the intake is behind and below the head light, separated from the engine bay by a wall I cut a whole in. Thanks for your concern though.

protip: Then it'd be a short ram, and those help almost as much, as it requires less force to suck the air in. Bends and things. *except for on your racecar.


Do you really think OEMs are going to put shithouse filters on their cars? OEM stuff, at least from Holden which is what I deal in, is usually the best for replacement parts.
Probably the most important thing everyone is missing, is does a stock civic/insert other shitbox econocar here really need an extra 5-10hp that you can't feel? Of course not, because its a fucking econobox not a bloody racecar. Anything remotely built for any sort of performance is already going to have a decent induction system.

EDIT: Also wheel dyno or engine dyno? Whp readings mean shit all.
You are correct, if you bought a racecar you wouldn't need to add an intake. But most cars are built for people who like them to be quiet / polite / etc. Which in my opinion is too bad, but oh well. It makes even more sense to put a cai on an economy car, because it will improve mileage, and it will be more economical! (omg I can't say by exactly 3mpg for every car so it doesn't count). And you know how over time you learn your car and can feel it when the wheels get too low, its the same way if the car gets a bit better too.

Why does whp not mean anything? I'd say whp is a better measurement of performance than bhp.


So, your saying a $40 dollar part gave you 5-10hp?
If if cost you $40, it would have cost the manufactures about $10, So my question is this:
If 5-10hp increase is that cheap, then why didn't the manufacturer install a CAI as STANDARD?
Oh, that's right, because it makes no noticeable difference to the power output / performance of the engine.
You really think some cheap CAI from ebay has had more design put into it than an intake a proper car manufacturer has designed?
Note: This is in regard to the normal everyday cars, not performance / race cars.

Normal cars not race cars, noise, see above, blah blah blah. And some companies don't plan every piece as a performance piece, sometimes they just slap on whatever they have lying around. Secondly, the ebay sellers just copy designs from people who did put research into the part, and its pretty hard to f*ck up an aluminium pipe.


Next you are all gonna tell me a performance exhaust doesn't do anything, because why would they put a merely ok exhaust on a car when they could put a great exhaust on it! And performance exhausts have fewer bends cause it looks cool, not to flow better, cause flow has nothing to do with efficiency, and efficiency has nothing to do with power. And it only shows up on a dyno due to air pressure and temperature and the like. Light weight body panels? Seats? They don't change anything. They don't even show up on the dyno! Rip offs, all of them.

To be honest, I don't trust manufacturers websites. If I did I'd be advocating for top end brand name intakes and magic spark plugs. And electric super chargers. And I am in favor of none of those things. Do all of you mean to tell me you've never looked at a stock airbox and thought WTF? Mine had a 90* bend, a corrugated section, a bad filter, 90* down, uturn, and then another bend, and narrowed from 3" diameter to an oval 1" by 3" as it went.

1) You just tried to say that "over" means exactly 1%, and then attack me on my specificity. Mayhaps I intentionally left it vague for the very reason that cars are different, as you brought up. But when you said cars were different you meant that since cars were different none of them can benefit from a cai. hrmmm.
2) If a standard bend is 90* sure, about half. Or maybe it's poetic license to emphasize the role that intake flow plays.
3) Yes, I have a 4banger in a typically v6 car and moved the battery for a straight shot. I'm ok with that. And the intake is behind and below the head light, separated from the engine bay by a wall I cut a whole in. Thanks for your concern though.

protip: Then it'd be a short ram, and those help almost as much, as it requires less force to suck the air in. Bends and things. *except for on your racecar.



You are correct, if you bought a racecar you wouldn't need to add an intake. But most cars are built for people who like them to be quiet / polite / etc. Which in my opinion is too bad, but oh well. It makes even more sense to put a cai on an economy car, because it will improve mileage, and it will be more economical! (omg I can't say by exactly 3mpg for every car so it doesn't count). And you know how over time you learn your car and can feel it when the wheels get too low, its the same way if the car gets a bit better too.

Why does whp not mean anything? I'd say whp is a better measurement of performance than bhp.




Normal cars not race cars, noise, see above, blah blah blah. And some companies don't plan every piece as a performance piece, sometimes they just slap on whatever they have lying around. Secondly, the ebay sellers just copy designs from people who did put research into the part, and its pretty hard to f*ck up an aluminium pipe.


Next you are all gonna tell me a performance exhaust doesn't do anything, because why would they put a merely ok exhaust on a car when they could put a great exhaust on it! And performance exhausts have fewer bends cause it looks cool, not to flow better, cause flow has nothing to do with efficiency, and efficiency has nothing to do with power. And it only shows up on a dyno due to air pressure and temperature and the like. Light weight body panels? Seats? They don't change anything. They don't even show up on the dyno! Rip offs, all of them.

To be honest, I don't trust manufacturers websites. If I did I'd be advocating for top end brand name intakes and magic spark plugs. And electric super chargers. And I am in favor of none of those things. Do all of you mean to tell me you've never looked at a stock airbox and thought WTF? Mine had a 90* bend, a corrugated section, a bad filter, 90* down, uturn, and then another bend, and narrowed from 3" diameter to an oval 1" by 3" as it went.


TL/DR

but let me give you a economics lesson.

Opportunity cost:

the value of the next best alternative foregone as the result of making a decision. Opportunity cost analysis is an important part of a company's decision-making processes, but is not treated as an actual cost in any financial statement. The next best thing that a person can engage in is referred to as the opportunity cost of doing the best thing and ignoring the next best thing to be done.

Let's exercise opportunity cost of this thread.
Assuming
$25.00/hr (High level GED job, Low level College job)
You've read this thread, done research on the topic, cited courses, for 2 hours.

In that time, you could have bought a $40.00 Cold Air intake. Then still have money for a dinner for two at Mickey D's.

I can't wait for this thread to die.

Side note: I would have explained the pros and cons more in depth but I deemed it a poor opportunity cost.

Nereth has spoken, Nereth is law.

/Thread

Nereth has spoken, Nereth is law.

Lol, get your tongue out of his arse boy. ;)

Let me give you a grammar lesson.

Douchbag:

This is a fun way to unwind after a day at work. More fun than sucking nereths cock, at least.

Let me give you a grammar lesson.

Douchbag:

This is a fun way to unwind after a day at work. More fun than sucking nereths cock, at least.

Shut the fuck up.

1)

Why does whp not mean anything? I'd say whp is a better measurement of performance than bhp.



Because whp readings are extremely easy to bullshit. Like if you strap a high hp car down harder, power goes up, if you increase the computer's reading of intake temp, power goes up etc. Too many variables for them to be taken seriously.

Let me give you a grammar lesson.

Douchbag:

This is a fun way to unwind after a day at work. More fun than sucking nereths cock, at least.

For the record I learned nothing from your grammar lesson, except you have the mental capacity to click the letter B.

Monkeys can do that.

As far as Nereth goes, that was a joke based on facts. He is very knowledgeable and if I didn't know something and I had a 100 different opinions I would choose his because he has proved himself time and again. Whenever I double check the information he provides in his posts it always comes out correct, not that it always will be, people make mistakes.

You on the other hand are a self compelled contradiction, you say you want to come unwind and yet make assumuptious remarks. Please define douchebag for me if you can, and tell me how it relates to me. Second I want to know how my post compelled you to act as you did?
Because you were wrong, and are too ignorant to learn?

I made a valid point, this thread has been derailed, valueable information has become something to the effect of a needle in a haystack. Much like your IQ has led your face to be in Goatses ass. :p

Is your mouth open or closed? Tongue in or out?

Why does whp not mean anything? I'd say whp is a better measurement of performance than bhp.


WHP is decievable.

I'm not saying cold air intakes don't work, I'm just saying it's not worth it on a car that is otherwise stock (so the stock intake isn't going to be a bottleneck) and slow anyway.

By the way, seeing as 90% of modern cars suck air in from outside anyway (i.e. it is cold), what exactly is the distinction of a 'cold air intake'? It's clearly not that it is colder. Outside air is outside air. It's clearly not going to be higher pressure since so many stock cars suck air from the stagnation point (or close to it), so what is it? Is the lack of bends in the pipe really going to be such a huge difference? shall I work out the stagnation pressure of a car at highway speeds and compare it to sucking air in through the wheelwell (which if I recall is usually a turbulent vacuum)? Are you sure the extra bends are going to cause that big a pressure drop?

I don't know man, please educate me.

This is a fun way to unwind after a day at work. More fun than sucking nereths cock, at least.

I doubt any of us in here have sucked cock - Hell, even our female regulars munch bush, so you're on your own there "buddy".

Let me give you a grammar lesson.

Douchbag:


And here's the proof that you just love to eat meat. Your post is high in irony, douchebag.

TO rip off Zero Punctuation, and answer this thread once and for all, in short: No.


In long, noooooooooo.

TO rip off Zero Punctuation, and answer this thread once and for all, in short: No.

In long, noooooooooo.

I do believe I saw that one, Bioshock right? I've only seen 4 or 5 of them (any more would be wasted as I only know a few select games and the way his humour works the more familiar you are with the game, the funnier he is). Funny cunt.

British humour (even though he lives in Aussieland he's British through and through) for the WIN.

Do all of you mean to tell me you've never looked at a stock airbox and thought WTF? Mine had a 90* bend, a corrugated section, a bad filter, 90* down, uturn, and then another bend, and narrowed from 3" diameter to an oval 1" by 3" as it went.

Not that I want to join in in this debate, but jesus shit that is an horrendous design.

Mustn't.......bum.......Rover.......:mad:

Like people have been saying, if you have a well designed intake, CAI's and a ram-air scoop and the like will have a negligible if any effect. That is all I wish to add.