Everyday when I check the World section on CNN, 4 out of 5 headlines are about African countries. Usually its about corruption, abductions, killings, etc. It seems like Africa has been and is in such a sad state? Is there really any hope for the place?

I honestly don't know. One of the most progressive countries on the continent (Ghana) is where it is today thanks to a truly benevolent dictator during the 80's. With democracy so fragile and riddled with corruption in most African democracies it seems like a benevolent dictator is the most reasonable thing to hope for. At any rate, I don't think there is anything the West can do to help the political state of some of the failing countries; any lasting solution in places like Zimbabwe, Angola and Rwanda will have to be brought about by either the people of those respective countries or the leaders of other African nations, as anything sponsored by the "colonial powers" seems to inherently arouse suspicion. The most depressing thing is that thanks to an epidemic of corruption Kenya (once one of the most rapidly developing countries) is again on the slide, especially where violent crime is concerned.

With regards to "hope", we'll be more equipped to answer that question after the upcoming elections in Ghana. If the elections are free and fair, and the country continues to grow in material wealth, then I'd definately say there's hope.

well there was this.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/foreign-troops-must-go-to-zimbabwe-kenya-20081208-6tdn.html


Foreign troops should prepare to intervene in Zimbabwe to end a worsening humanitarian crisis and Zimbabwean president Robert Mugabe should be investigated for crimes against humanity, the Kenyan prime minister has said.

Raila Odinga urged the African Union to call an emergency meeting to authorise sending troops into Zimbabwe.

"If no troops are available, then the AU must allow the UN to send its forces into Zimbabwe with immediate effect, to take over control of the country and ensure urgent humanitarian assistance to the people dying of cholera," he said on Sunday.

More than 500 Zimbabweans have officially died of the disease since an outbreak in August but health officials fear the toll may be much higher. They warn deaths could spiral into the thousands due to the complete collapse of Zimbabwe's health system, the scarcity of food and the oncoming rainy season, which may help spread infections.

Odinga said Mugabe had reduced a once prosperous country to a "basket case" and said: "Mugabe's case deserves no less than investigations by the International Criminal Court at The Hague."

Odinga also slammed other African leaders for being slow to criticise Zimbabwe, saying they had shamed the continent by treating Mugabe with "kid gloves" because he had supported their liberation struggles from colonial powers.

"We refuse to accept the idea that African countries should be judged by lesser standards than other countries in the world," Odinga said. "Participation in the liberation struggle is no licence for anyone to own a country."


It's always nice to seeing a reference to crimes against humanity in a context that doesn't involve someone bitching about Israel. :)

it ain't happening of course, but it's still cool.
http://www.thisday.co.tz/News/4994.html

Nevertheless, Kenya and Ethiopia have been awesome lately.
The Kenyans for having the balls to actually suggest that, and Ethiopia for having the balls to move troops into Sudan to fight the Islamists who'd moved in there.

The continent? Sure. The people that reside there? No.

Not without quite a bit of work.

Not unless Western Powers stop with their neo-colonialism/neo-liberalist bullshit and debt slavery. Oh wait, China is doing that just fine, helping Africa out of their hole and the legacy of the Maafa..

When an African Government didn't follow the bullshit 'advice' the World Bank gave them they IMPROVED, yeah subsidizing the fertilizer HELPED that nation. the same thing the US and EU do to their crops... hypocrites.

If anyone needs sources I will provide them

It's just like the Middle East. A bunch of failed states resulting from colonial powers drawing borders without considering the people they encompassed. I don't see a real solution happening unless the borders get redrawn to represent actual nations, or somebody comes along and creates a pan-African empire, but nobody's about to give up land, so short answer: yes, but a lot of people are going to die.

On the other hand, most of the African nations have only been self governed for 40-some years. There may be hope for them yet, but only time will tell.

I agree with SWF, the world bank appears to invest in human capital, but it totally fucks its target nations out of their self sufficiency. "Nonprofit" my ass.

One of the biggest issues with the I.B.R.D/World Bank is that it accepts private funding, there's quite an obvious contrast of interest issue there.

Given that much of its wealth comes from multinational corporations, the institution will inevitably be more keen on working for the interests of big business rather than for those of the countries it operates in.

If you see it from this perspective you can notice a quite scary pattern emerging from the Bank's operations in Africa, you can see them funding huge wasteful infrastructural projects, such as dams, allegedly in the name of "human development", but if you look more closely, you can see that the construction contract went to some TNC that what a coincidence also happens to be a World Bank donor.

If by hope you meant :

go out and buy a lottery ticket and "hope" I would win...

that kind of "hope" ..... then yes....there's plenty of hope waiting for them....

Not unless Western Powers stop with their neo-colonialism/neo-liberalist bullshit and debt slavery.

When an African Government didn't follow the bullshit 'advice' the World Bank gave them they IMPROVED, yeah subsidizing the fertilizer HELPED that nation. the same thing the US and EU do to their crops... hypocrites.



This.

Oh wait, China is doing that just fine, helping Africa out of their hole and the legacy of the Maafa..
But not this:

Is Africa a country or a continent?

Is Africa a :
[a] country
[b] continent
[c] shit hole
[d] none of the above

objectivised....

Is Africa a country or a continent?

continent :D

continent :D[X]

Wrong. -5.

Africa is beyond saving, the fact they are poor is going to be continous. Even if they manage to get out of their poverty stricken circle of doom. the price of everything will rise. There will always be "poor" class. The only thing you can do is try to minimize it.

Sorry for being cynical.
And no, I dont hate Africa.

I'm tired of seeing money go from wealthy nations into the pockets of their dictators while the people starve. Solution? take every second boy and cut out his testicles. Problem solved.

Don't like it? No more money for you.

I'm tired of seeing money go from wealthy nations into the pockets of their dictators while the people starve. Solution? take every second boy and cut out his testicles. Problem solved.

Don't like it? No more money for you.

Nuke them like its 1999 boy!

there is too much aids and war and corruption

I wonder if the situation would improve if the countries of Africa became a federation of free-trading states tied to a central goverment?

this seemed to work for some other countries...

Most corruption, most poverty, least food, most HIV.

That's a hell of a starting block they've got there.

Not for a long time. The best solution may be just to seal Africa off, and let them work things out.

Education may be one solution, but no educated local would want to go back.

Also, no matter what the West does, even with the best intentions, the people will reject it after their leaders' cue.

there is too much aids and war and corruption

Priceless.

And true.

I wonder if the situation would improve if the countries of Africa became a federation of free-trading states tied to a central goverment?

this seemed to work for some other countries...

closest thing to that is the African Union currently.

i new a guy from Nigeria, he was working as a road sweeper. he would work all hours under the sun and save all his money. he's going back soon and using the money to fund his political career. small position relatively, can't remember the title. he's doing this to quote "have an easy life doing no real work"

i new another guy at college from central Africa somewhere. he told me about his poverty stricken village and how (with the rain forest as his back yard) people there are still starving because its some wildlife sanctuary or some such crap.

i reckon Africa is fucked. leave them to it. maybe in 50 years when the smoke has cleared

I think that colonization is the only way to save africa from itself

I think that colonization is the only way to save africa from itself

You'd think so, but think how much propaganda fuel will all the "anti-western" regimes get.

Also, the victims from both sides that we'll get in the process. And if you think the majority of the Africans will be grateful, think again.

But if you don't take into consideration all those factors, that's one way of solving the problem.

You gotta admit, africans were better off when they were serving gin and tonic to some bloke in a pith helmet. At least there was some kind of order.

They were probably better off before the white man came in the first place. The European devils stole all their natural resources and oppressed them and then left them in chaos.

They were probably better off before the white man came in the first place. The European devils stole all their natural resources and oppressed them and then left them in chaos.

which is why they still have a shit ton of resources?

Whites get blamed for fucking everything.

Ya honestly fuck Africa its a shit hole. I wish someone would nuke it already

which is why they still have a shit ton of resources?

When you say "they", you surely mean the foreign corporations that own the rights to those resources, correct?

When you say "they", you surely mean the foreign corporations that own the rights to those resources, correct?

Corporations don't serve states, they are registered in africa and pay tax in africa. Just like they pay tax in the west.

Corporation=/=State

One of the biggest issues with the I.B.R.D/World Bank is that it accepts private funding, there's quite an obvious contrast of interest issue there.

Given that much of its wealth comes from multinational corporations, the institution will inevitably be more keen on working for the interests of big business rather than for those of the countries it operates in.

If you see it from this perspective you can notice a quite scary pattern emerging from the Bank's operations in Africa, you can see them funding huge wasteful infrastructural projects, such as dams, allegedly in the name of "human development", but if you look more closely, you can see that the construction contract went to some TNC that what a coincidence also happens to be a World Bank donor.

So what you are saying is..... the TNC gives money to the World Bank and then the world bank gives it back to them in exchange for making a dam? Why don't they just keep the money? Saves them the effort of building a dam....

Corporations don't serve states, they are registered in africa and pay tax in africa. Just like they pay tax in the west.

Corporation=/=State

Apart from the fact that most of the resources and profits will be sent straight back home to the USA, and most African states have little/no taxation capability.

Apart from the fact that most of the resources and profits will be sent straight back home to the USA, and most African states have little/no taxation capability.

Which is why the US balance of payments is so awesome, right?

Whites get blamed for fucking everything.

well they tend to be responsible for it all..

South Africa isn't too bad...HIV/AIDS really is a scary fucking problem. Something like, what, 20% of the population has it? I don't even know, man. I wish the whites were still in power.

well they tend to be responsible for it all..

Yeah that's it, it must be whitey's fault. No one else could possibly be blamed for the myriad of problems the Africans have to face off against.

Yeah that's it, it must be whitey's fault. No one else could possibly be blamed for the myriad of problems the Africans have to face off against.

Pretty much (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Conference)

Africa is just too far behind.. It would be so so so so hard to get them even remotely up to speed.

They really probably should invade it or some shit but fuck it you can't ever get anything done that way so just nuke it or let them slowly evolve and serve as a spectacle to the world.

Pretty much (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Conference)

You think today's problems with corruption, stupidity and everything else is only because of the activity of colonial powers?

Africa is hell. It's where many Americans go when they die.

Everyday when I check the World section on CNN, 4 out of 5 headlines are about African countries. Usually its about corruption, abductions, killings, etc. It seems like Africa has been and is in such a sad state? Is there really any hope for the place?

Nope, and yet our government is throwing away our money to this piss poor continent.

You think today's problems with corruption, stupidity and everything else is only because of the activity of colonial powers?

Well, with the rape of a country comes the aftereffects, in this case many decades later. If you can't build on that, you're in no position to call anyone stupid. :)

Well, with the rape of a country comes the aftereffects, in this case many decades later. If you can't build on that, you're in no position to call anyone stupid. :)

Many former colonial states exist, they aren't usually as dodgy as Africa.

we need to invent... SUPER-AIDS! / thread

It's too risky for a democracy to invade Africa. It's not risky for the invading country - it's too risky for the politicians leading the invading country.

Our best hope is a private organization such as the mafia or totse militia. Seriously a wild country can be tamed if it is run like an organized crime mob.

Want a solution?

Get them to have less children.
That means less famine, less AIDs, less suffering, more help to fewer people.

Who the fuck would want to bring a child into this world for 0 to maybe 30 years of hardcore suffering?

You can't help anyone unless they start to help themselves first. So far they're just fucking it up for their kids.

Want a solution?

Get them to have less children.
That means less famine, less AIDs, less suffering, more help to fewer people.

That what I think is wrong with Africa. They seem to now expect help.

E.g., see those adverts about how they have to walk 20 miles uphill just to get some water?

Well, why don't they build a simplistic piping system? The Romans could do it, the Greeks could do it, why the hell can't they ffs? Or, why not move closer to the water source? Why found a village in a place with fuck all food and water?

They should make it mandatory that we perform vasectomies on every second male born. Since they're too stupid to follow one child rule, we would have to force it.

If there were unhappy, cut off all aid and let it solve itself.