There are quite a few of the people who I'm going to talk about on these forums. These are the kinds of people who feel they are entitled to wear a t-shirt that says "niggers like fried chicken" to a Juneteenth celebration without being addressed. These people feel that no one has the right to be offended by any public gesture, t-shirt, or similar piece of information. Do you sympathize with their beliefs or do you feel they are only mad about this because they have been scorned and humiliated publicly or most likely had their asses beaten, or both? Do these people have legitimate concerns or do they simply want to get away with acting like a badass without actually having to back it up? I'm interested in what the community has to say.

There's a difference in expressing your right to wear or say what you want and exercising that right in order to offend people. Most people who jump on the "that offends me" bandwagon perpetuate it anyway so they can just fuck off.

the only way these things offend people is if they get offended. it's not my fault that the language i chose to use or the clothing i wear happens to do so. it's still their fault for being offended. i'm not going to change whatever it is that offends them just because they are offended.

this is way different if i'm purposely trying to offend someone, because now it's not just "them getting offended" by rather "me offending them" - it's a matter of intentions.

and also yes that bandwagon of people can fuck off.

the only way these things offend people is if they get offended. it's not my fault that the language i chose to use or the clothing i wear happens to do so. it's still their fault for being offended. i'm not going to change whatever it is that offends them just because they are offended.


Would you be mad if 10 kids at your school/10 coworkers wore a shirt that had them buttfucking your naked mom on it?

Have some common decency and try to make this world a little better for all of us. It is your fault when you wear something that the average person would be offended by.

In an ideal world people would not identify themselves based on their race, but while they still do, "racially insensitive" things will continue to offend. I'd love to live in a world where people could wear T-Shirts saying "Nigger" "Kike" "Dune Coon" "Chink" "White Anglo-Saxon Prick" etc. and people would see these shirts and would just walk by and not be offended because they do not identify themselves by an ethnocentric categorization.

As it stands now though many people still identify themselves based on race. Insulting someones race is like insulting someone's gang or someone's mother (like in the previous post's example). People who say "you shouldn't be offended" are right in theory, but the fact is people will be offended and could be potentially violent.

In the final analysis, being offended is just like any other emotional reaction: it is a choice. For any given situation or circumstance, you make either a conscious or unconcious decision to react in an emotional way or not. You can chose to be happy, sad, angry, stoic or whatever. Most people chose emotional reactions they feel are appropriate for the situation.

For example, a friend told me a story from his childhood. Someone at school called him a nigger. He had never heard the term before. He went home and proudly told his dad that he was a nigger. His father explained to him that it was a derogatory term and he should not put up with someone calling him that. Point is, before he knew he should have been offended, he took it as a compliment and was happy about it. That was the choice he made.

In short, everyone has every right to be offended about anything they like, and I have every right not to give a rats ass about whatever offends someone else. Just like they have the right not to care about whatever offends me.

Would you be mad if 10 kids at your school/10 coworkers wore a shirt that had them buttfucking your naked mom on it?

Have some common decency and try to make this world a little better for all of us. It is your fault when you wear something that the average person would be offended by.no.

i still choose to be offended by it. i could just see it all 20 times and say "wow how is that t-shirt so popular" instead of "WOW THOSE RAT FUCKING BASTARDS THATS OFFENSIVE"

it's still on the person who is offended. try to have some common decency and shut the fuck up.

no.

i still choose to be offended by it. i could just see it all 20 times and say "wow how is that t-shirt so popular" instead of "WOW THOSE RAT FUCKING BASTARDS THATS OFFENSIVE"


But that is not a reasonable reaction. The person wearing the shirt caused the problem, not the one reacting.

aloha from jail is a confirmed degenerate and generally regarded as severely mentally impaired on these forums, ignore him.

aloha from jail is a confirmed degenerate and generally regarded as severely mentally impaired on these forums, ignore him.:rolleyes: you don't know who i am. much less anyone else on totse.

But that is not a reasonable reaction. The person wearing the shirt caused the problem, not the one reacting.

This. The person that is offended has no choice as to whether or he or she is offended. In this case I would go with the person being offended.

But, there are people that are just old assholes and have to whine and bitch about stuff to make themselves feel good. In this situation I would just give the dude the finger or something

There are quite a few of the people who I'm going to talk about on these forums. These are the kinds of people who feel they are entitled to wear a t-shirt that says "niggers like fried chicken" to a Juneteenth celebration without being addressed. These people feel that no one has the right to be offended by any public gesture, t-shirt, or similar piece of information. Do you sympathize with their beliefs or do you feel they are only mad about this because they have been scorned and humiliated publicly or most likely had their asses beaten, or both? Do these people have legitimate concerns or do they simply want to get away with acting like a badass without actually having to back it up? I'm interested in what the community has to say.

If wearing a tshirt gets you punched it means someone is a little bitch who can't take a simple insult ;)

If I was to smack the hell out of anyone who'd called me a "white cunt" over the years I would have some sore sore knuckles and would probably be in jail. If that's the standard for me it should be the standard for the rest.

There are things which you shouldn't be able to do, but wearing a shirt or calling someone a name should be seen as just that. If you can't keep your hands to yourself because someone insults you then perhaps you should wrap yourself in bubble wrap and stay in your house.

In my opinion, someone who takes offense to something shows a lack of self-confidence &/or an inferiority complex, and a preoccupation* with other people's opinions.

I am not easily offended because I am confident that I am better than anyone who tries to offend me and, since I'm better than them, their opinion doesn't mean shit anyways and I could not care less about what they think or say.



*I think there's a better word for that but I cannot think of it now.

^They've got an inferiority complex,

you've nurtured one of superiority.

Both ego defense mechanisms, aggressive and passive.

The choice works both ways; you can choose to offend someone, or not to, as well as choose to be offended, or not to be.

But the fact is, even if you say you don't have the intention of offending, we're still living in a world that frowns violently upon say, wearing your fashionable conical white hoodie to the million man march.

Would you be mad if 10 kids at your school/10 coworkers wore a shirt that had them buttfucking your naked mom on it?

Have some common decency and try to make this world a little better for all of us. It is your fault when you wear something that the average person would be offended by.

But who is this average person? Who makes the rules about these sorts of things? I understand how applying a racial slur to someone of ethnic descent would be unacceptable. Firstly, one can be offended by the attempt to offend them. Secondly, taboo terms with historical reference carry more weight. But surely it would not be a problem if every member of the affected group could move on and actively decide not to be offended by these insults.

A phrase that is thrown around is 'don't let it get to you'. Many people misconstrue this, believing that if they pretend not to be bothered by aggravation, it will cease. What it really means is that, if you are no longer bothered by an individual's insults, you will no longer be bothered by an individual's insults. If everyone could take this attitude, there would be no way to insult them. Words that we consider taboo now would become acceptable, which is no bad thing because nobody would care.

Why does there have to be a subculture of censors that get offended by this sort of stuff? Common decency, before physical altercations etc, is what we make of it. It is not about preservation.

^They've got an inferiority complex,

you've nurtured one of superiority.
That's the first time I've ever heard the term superiority complex and upon reading the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex) on it I can say that I have about half of those traits. That's an eye opener. Thanks

Look, when some black guy wakes up in the morning and goes out to buy some coffee he doesn't say to himself "hmm, what can I overreact to today?"

When you wake up and put on a "fuck niggers" tshirt, you know its going to piss people off.
It doesn't matter if they should be offended or not, just that they will be offended and you know they will. Sure, you can argue that they shouldn't get offended, but you are still making a choice to do something that you know will offend someone.

Its all about conscious choice. An emotional response isn't a conscious choice (for most people).


Now, there is always the natural complainer who likes to take offense at everything. I would have to say the line is draw if the message is insulting or not.

Example:
"I hate Christianity" is an insulting statement. You have a right to be offended at that

"Don't believe in God? Don't worry, you're not alone." - That's not insulting anyone; its providing support for fellow atheists. For a christian to get offended at that is just stupid.

More examples:
"Fuck gay people" - insulting
"I'm going to have gay sex in the privacy on my own home" - not insulting
"You're going to hell" - insulting
"I don't believe in a god" - not insulting
"Drugs are bad" - You are essentially saying that drugs are bad, and therefor the people who use them are doing something wrong. I would argue that this is insulting.
"I choose not to do drugs" - This on the other hand is not insulting

Seeing a pattern?
Good. If the message you're spreading is insulting, then theres nothing wrong with people getting offended by it.


On top of all this, why would you want to wear a potentially insulting shirt anyways. Can't we all be friends?

Look, when some black guy wakes up in the morning and goes out to buy some coffee he doesn't say to himself "hmm, what can I overreact to today?"

When you wake up and put on a "fuck niggers" tshirt, you know its going to piss people off.
It doesn't matter if they should be offended or not, just that they will be offended and you know they will. Sure, you can argue that they shouldn't get offended, but you are still making a choice to do something that you know will offend someone.

Its all about conscious choice. An emotional response isn't a conscious choice (for most people).


Now, there is always the natural complainer who likes to take offense at everything. I would have to say the line is draw if the message is insulting or not.

Example:
"I hate Christianity" is an insulting statement. You have a right to be offended at that

"Don't believe in God? Don't worry, you're not alone." - That's not insulting anyone; its providing support for fellow atheists. For a christian to get offended at that is just stupid.

More examples:
"Fuck gay people" - insulting
"I'm going to have gay sex in the privacy on my own home" - not insulting
"You're going to hell" - insulting
"I don't believe in a god" - not insulting
"Drugs are bad" - You are essentially saying that drugs are bad, and therefor the people who use them are doing something wrong. I would argue that this is insulting.
"I choose not to do drugs" - This on the other hand is not insulting

Seeing a pattern?
Good. If the message you're spreading is insulting, then theres nothing wrong with people getting offended by it.


On top of all this, why would you want to wear a potentially insulting shirt anyways. Can't we all be friends?

I agree with all except the very last sentence lol.

Theres a fine line between poor taste and expressing yourself. Wearing a shirt that says 'niggers suck' to a Juneteenth celebration is just stupid, what would the person hope to acomplish?

Drawing a political cartoon that depicts niggers as the savage beasts they are would be more productive.

Drawing a political cartoon that depicts niggers as the savage beasts they are would be more productive.

Can't we all be friends?

This is why I stopped posting on totse for a long time. If you find the wrong sections when you're a teenager you can end up pretty racist. I'd suggest you stop posting and grow up a little bit. You'll come around and realize we're all just people trying to get by.

Look, when some black guy wakes up in the morning and goes out to buy some coffee he doesn't say to himself "hmm, what can I overreact to today?"

When you wake up and put on a "fuck niggers" tshirt, you know its going to piss people off.
It doesn't matter if they should be offended or not, just that they will be offended and you know they will. Sure, you can argue that they shouldn't get offended, but you are still making a choice to do something that you know will offend someone.

Its all about conscious choice. An emotional response isn't a conscious choice (for most people).


Now, there is always the natural complainer who likes to take offense at everything. I would have to say the line is draw if the message is insulting or not.

Example:
"I hate Christianity" is an insulting statement. You have a right to be offended at that

"Don't believe in God? Don't worry, you're not alone." - That's not insulting anyone; its providing support for fellow atheists. For a christian to get offended at that is just stupid.

More examples:
"Fuck gay people" - insulting
"I'm going to have gay sex in the privacy on my own home" - not insulting
"You're going to hell" - insulting
"I don't believe in a god" - not insulting
"Drugs are bad" - You are essentially saying that drugs are bad, and therefor the people who use them are doing something wrong. I would argue that this is insulting.
"I choose not to do drugs" - This on the other hand is not insulting

Seeing a pattern?
Good. If the message you're spreading is insulting, then theres nothing wrong with people getting offended by it.


On top of all this, why would you want to wear a potentially insulting shirt anyways. Can't we all be friends?

Will you be my friend?

:(

Anyway, i'm not going to say any of the replies here are right or wrong. It's a matter of opinion. I'm not going to say its WRONG to wear a t-shirt that says niggers love friend chicken. I would love to own a t-shirt like that. But that doesn't mean its necessarily socially acceptable.

If i think niggers love friend chicken, ill be damned if anyone is going to stop me wearing that shirt. But I won't be expecting to be let into any pubs.

punk rocker, i think it's morally kind of hazy to categorise things like that. For example -

Which is worse:

1. Niggers love fried chicken.

2. I think niggers love fried chicken.

People who say that think it gives them a free pass to say whatever the fuck they want.

Fortunately, I'm hearing it less and less.

Which is worse:

1. Niggers love fried chicken.

2. I think niggers love fried chicken.

That's the same as saying:

"You are an idiot"

"I think you are an idiot"

Both of them are insulting.

Its also impossible to use racial slang in a phrase and not have it sound insulting. You might as well say "[stupid fucking dirty piece of shit black people] like fried chicken."

Do I think its wrong for blacks to call each other niggers? Not at all. If you drop a plate and it breaks its fine if you say to someone "oh, I'm such a goof." Its not alright for someone to say to you "You are such stupid cunt, you can't even hold a plate you dumb bitch."


Look, I support free speech, but why would you want to use hate speech in the first place? Nothing good can come from that. You want to argue opinions, that's fine. But there is a reason derogatory terms and ad hominem arguments are left out of debates.

"In a recent study it was found that while African Americans make up 13% of the US population, they account for approximately 21% of the KFC purchases. We believe this stems form the fact that the population density of black citizens is greater in the south where fried foods are more popular."

"Niggers be eaten up all that fried chicken yo. Ima go fuck my sister and drive my pickup to my local clan meeting. KKK for lyfe! [fires shotgun]"

EDIT:

People who say that think it gives them a free pass to say whatever the fuck they want.

Fortunately, I'm hearing it less and less.

It warms my little heart to know that the minority of people who think like you is ever shrinking.

I like you.

This is why I stopped posting on totse for a long time. If you find the wrong sections when you're a teenager you can end up pretty racist. I'd suggest you stop posting and grow up a little bit. You'll come around and realize we're all just people trying to get by.

Yes that true, theres good and bad in each race. The negro race, statistically, has the most violent and dangerous underclass.

Yes that true, theres good and bad in each race. The negro race, statistically, has the most violent and dangerous underclass.

Probably because they've been some of the poorest people ever since they came to America.

Btw, "Came" is my Euphemism for "Were stolen from Africa to work for free".

No, it's probably because their average IQ is 80 and therefore they lack the cognitive ability to appreciate the idea of a consequence for crime. Even the rich blacks in this nation are all in trouble. Michael Vick anyone?

But that is not a reasonable reaction. The person wearing the shirt caused the problem, not the one reacting.

But they're two completely different people they have nothing to do with each other. if i went to africa and people were wearing t-shirts saying "Wiggers like ice cream" I wouldn't be even remotely offended and would probably laugh. I don't give a shit about someone else's opinion if they have nothing to do with me... there is no need for me to, And i don't think there is a genuine reason that others should either. They're just trying to complain about something to get themselves noticed.

All this bullshit about racism pisses me off, Fair enough if someone is killed because they're a different race then things are getting serious and it should be racism, But People try and play that fucking card all the time. Absolutely no need for it.

What the fuck is Juneteenth?

What the fuck is Juneteenth?

http://www.juneteenth.com/
Juneteenth is the oldest nationally celebrated commemoration of the ending of slavery in the United States.

From its Galveston, Texas origin in 1865, the observance of June 19th as the African American Emancipation Day has spread across the United States and beyond.

Today Juneteenth commemorates African American freedom and emphasizes education and achievement. It is a day, a week, and in some areas a month marked with celebrations, guest speakers, picnics and family gatherings. It is a time for reflection and rejoicing. It is a time for assessment, self-improvement and for planning the future. Its growing popularity signifies a level of maturity and dignity in America long over due. In cities across the country, people of all races, nationalities and religions are joining hands to truthfully acknowledge a period in our history that shaped and continues to influence our society today. Sensitized to the conditions and experiences of others, only then can we make significant and lasting improvements in our society.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/juneteenth1.html
Origins

On June 19, 1865, the Union General Gordon Granger rode into Galveston, Tex., to inform inhabitants of the Civil War's end two months earlier. Two and a half years after Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, Granger's General Order Number 3 finally freed the last 250,000 slaves whose bondage, due to the minimal Union presence in the region, had been essentially unaffected by Lincoln's efforts. June 19th—which was quickly shortened to "Juneteenth" among celebrants—has become the African-American addendum to our national Independence Day, for, as Juneteenth jubilees remind us, the Emancipation Proclamation did not bring about emancipation, and the prevailing portrayal of Independence Day ignores the ignominious incidence of slavery entirely.

Evolution

Observance of Juneteenth has traditionally tended towards church-centered celebrations featuring food, fun, and a focus on self-improvement and education by guest speakers. Although initially associated with Texas and other Southern states, the Civil Rights Era and the Poor People's March to Washington in 1968, in particular, helped spread the tradition all across America—to the extent that Milwaukee and Minneapolis now host two of the largest Juneteenth celebrations in the nation.
Juneteenth Today

The state of Texas made Juneteenth an official holiday on Jan. 1, 1980, and became the first to grant it government recognition. Several states have since issued proclamations recognizing the holiday, but the Lone Star State remains alone in granting it full state holiday status, a day when government employees have the day off. Nonetheless, supporters and celebrants of Juneteenth continue to grow in number and in diversity; today, Juneteenth is promoted not only as a commemoration of African-American freedom, but as an example and encouragement of self-development and respect for all cultures.



Google is your friend.

It is your fault when you wear something that the average person would be offended by.

No, it's their phault for being so sensitive....

like do you blame the sun for hurting your skin,...or do you just put on sun screen when you go to the beach ??

Google is your friend.

No it's not.

North Dakota only has like 4,000 black people, so that's probably why I never heard of it.

Personally, I think anyone who gets offended by a word is stupid. The only reason, ONLY REASON, the word offends you is because YOU let it. Words only have as much power as people let them have. So, if people stopped letting words like nigger and spic have power over them, they would no longer be able to 'hurt' people.

suck it up everyone and get used to it. not everything in life will be happy. get the fuck over it.

No, it's probably because their average IQ is 80 and therefore they lack the cognitive ability to appreciate the idea of a consequence for crime. Even the rich blacks in this nation are all in trouble. Michael Vick anyone?

Ya, I loled

Words have meaning.
I'll say it again slowly so all you maladroits can understand me.
Words. Have. Meaning.
They are not exhalations of air devoid of importance.

Has the American educational system truly grown so inept that you people can't grasp this simple fact or were you all just homeschooled or something?

Nigger does not mean black person, it means subhuman undeserving of the respect and consideration given a dog. If you cannot understand why a person would be offended if you were to call them that then I truly cannot understand how a creature as socially inept as yourself has survived human society long enough to grasp the concept of internet communication.

"lol but you shouldn't care what people think about you!"

No I'm sorry but the real world does not work that way. Maybe in lolbertarian land this is true but in the real world we are members of society as a whole before we are autonomous individuals. It is impossible for an individual to survive in a society that rejects him.

How is that relevant?

Words shape perceptions, which shape thoughts, which shape actions, which shape society.

I'll use another word loaded with heavy contextual ramifications as an example. While you may not be concerned if I were to call you a pedophile, you would be very concerned if other people were to allow my branding of you as pedophile to shape their perceptions of you as you would soon find yourself a societal pariah. To quote Lenin "A lie told often enough becomes the truth". The fact that you are not a pedophile becomes irrelevant when everyone in the world treats you as one.

Words have meaning.
I'll say it again slowly so all you maladroits can understand me.
Words. Have. Meaning.
They are not exhalations of air devoid of importance.

Has the American educational system truly grown so inept that you people can't grasp this simple fact or were you all just homeschooled or something?

Nigger does not mean black person, it means subhuman undeserving of the respect and consideration given a dog. If you cannot understand why a person would be offended if you were to call them that then I truly cannot understand how a creature as socially inept as yourself has survived human society long enough to grasp the concept of internet communication.

"lol but you shouldn't care what people think about you!"

No I'm sorry but the real world does not work that way. Maybe in lolbertarian land this is true but in the real world we are members of society as a whole before we are autonomous individuals. It is impossible for an individual to survive in a society that rejects him.

How is that relevant?

Words shape perceptions, which shape thoughts, which shape actions, which shape society.

I'll use another word loaded with heavy contextual ramifications as an example. While you may not be concerned if I were to call you a pedophile, you would be very concerned if other people were to allow my branding of you as pedophile to shape their perceptions of you as you would soon find yourself a societal pariah. To quote Lenin "A lie told often enough becomes the truth". The fact that you are not a pedophile becomes irrelevant when everyone in the world treats you as one.

I agree with this, but, it also depends the context in which the words are used, and who the words are aimed at.

If I'm fuckin around with my friends and I call him a dirty jewish spick, I feel there's nothing wrong with it.

If I'm at a gas station and someone cuts me off, resulting in me calling him a sand nigger, then ya, that's fucked up.

Not that I wouldn't do it:)

Words have meaning.
I'll say it again slowly so all you maladroits can understand me.
Words. Have. Meaning.
They are not exhalations of air devoid of importance.

Has the American educational system truly grown so inept that you people can't grasp this simple fact or were you all just homeschooled or something?

Nigger does not mean black person, it means subhuman undeserving of the respect and consideration given a dog. If you cannot understand why a person would be offended if you were to call them that then I truly cannot understand how a creature as socially inept as yourself has survived human society long enough to grasp the concept of internet communication.

"lol but you shouldn't care what people think about you!"

No I'm sorry but the real world does not work that way. Maybe in lolbertarian land this is true but in the real world we are members of society as a whole before we are autonomous individuals. It is impossible for an individual to survive in a society that rejects him.

How is that relevant?

Words shape perceptions, which shape thoughts, which shape actions, which shape society.

I'll use another word loaded with heavy contextual ramifications as an example. While you may not be concerned if I were to call you a pedophile, you would be very concerned if other people were to allow my branding of you as pedophile to shape their perceptions of you as you would soon find yourself a societal pariah. To quote Lenin "A lie told often enough becomes the truth". The fact that you are not a pedophile becomes irrelevant when everyone in the world treats you as one.
words are made up and can be changed. nothing is set in stone, and therefore there is no concrete platform for what words mean what. words do not shape action or intention. :rolleyes:

being offended by words alone is outright stupid because of this.

If you believe words have no meaning why exactly are you taking the time to type out grammatically correct sentences and not just bashing your head into the keyboard? Words apparently mean whatever you feel like after all so maybe you'll be able to express yourself more succinctly with the new words you create through that process.

If you believe words have no meaning why exactly are you taking the time to type out grammatically correct sentences and not just bashing your head into the keyboard? Words apparently mean whatever you feel like after all so maybe you'll be able to express yourself more succinctly with the new words you create through that process.

He said words have no meaning; not grammar.

He said words have no meaning; not grammar.

One cannot exist without the other.

One cannot exist without the other.

what a common misconception.

Well go on then, explain this "common misconception" to me.
Explain how grammar can exist when words have no concrete meanings.

That's like saying "how can religion exist if there is more than one religion". You have the choice to choose whether or not one denomination is bullshit, as well as whether or not one philosophy is superior to another; man takes words/philosophy/religion as they are to him. The word nigger means whatever you want it to be, but if you choose to be offended by it; more so than any other word, you are primitive.

Well go on then, explain this "common misconception" to me.
Explain how grammar can exist when words have no concrete meanings.
grammar is unique to each language. english has it's own set of grammar, just as russian, french, and any other language does. these are specialized towards their own languages, and while the formulation of the language may have originated in it's first definition of words, it is the grammar which makes it "proper" and forms how you use the language.

words are also apart of every language, but the connotations between languages change. take for example the japanese word "nakama" which roughly translates to "close friends" in english. this is a true translation, sure, but in japan, it has a much deeper meaning than just "close friends"; more like a love towards a person, a life long mate different than a family member or your girl(boy)friend. see, the words change from language to language, and over time "nakama" might have a different definition than it does now; the way we use it within a given language is the same though. the grammar stays the same, but the words change.

you see, it's easy to change the connotation of a word. it's not so easy to change an entire language's grammar.

If we're talking real world scenarios, then I think it completely depends on how the situation has arisen. If the person has put themselves in a position where they will encounter words, slogans or beliefs that they find offensive then the "offender" would be perfectly entitled to ridicule them for being offended. If a holocaust survivor makes a conscious choice to attend a neo-nazi rally then (s)he isn't really in a position to be offended when they see a wall adorned with swastikas. Conversely, if a gaggle of neo-nazi's turn up outside a holocaust survivor's home waving swastikas and anti-semitic plaquards you would say that the taking of offense is justified and that the victim has a right not to be subjected to it.

If you want to apply this question to the temple, then we are in the first situation. It's taken as a given that if you visit sites like this you will at some point come across words or images (particularly images :p) that you personally find offensive. If you are easily offended then there are many discussion sites which have moderators who will seek out potentially offensive material.

Part of life is acknowledging that people find different things offensive and people have a varying sense of humour. Personally, I find those who are easily offended and who think everyone should be subjected to their morals pretty damn annoying; "they" have a habit of stifling open discussion and freedom of speech and the free transfer of knowledge. The most recent example of this that comes to mind is the pre-eminent uproar over the British TV broadcaster Channel 4 deciding to broadcast a speech by President Amedinejad as an alternative to the Queen's Christmas speech. In the same vein as the start of this paragraph, part of life is accepting that you won't agree with everything you hear and will at some point encounter opinions, slogans, words or images that you are offended by. The fact that many people don't seem to share this view represents a wider social ill, the belief that we can eradicate all negative emotions and experiences from our lives. Or more accurately, that we should sacrfice freedom in all it's forms to achieve a state as close to this "perfect" society as possible.

grammar is unique to each language. english has it's own set of grammar, just as russian, french, and any other language does. these are specialized towards their own languages, and while the formulation of the language may have originated in it's first definition of words, it is the grammar which makes it "proper" and forms how you use the language.

words are also apart of every language, but the connotations between languages change. take for example the japanese word "nakama" which roughly translates to "close friends" in english. this is a true translation, sure, but in japan, it has a much deeper meaning than just "close friends"; more like a love towards a person, a life long mate different than a family member or your girl(boy)friend. see, the words change from language to language, and over time "nakama" might have a different definition than it does now; the way we use it within a given language is the same though. the grammar stays the same, but the words change.

you see, it's easy to change the connotation of a word. it's not so easy to change an entire language's grammar.
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
The connotations of words rarely shift drastically and grammar doesn't stay the same. They're both equally prone to a slow shift over time. Language as a whole is prone to change not just the meanings of words.

I'm sorry but you're wrong.
The connotations of words rarely shift drastically and grammar doesn't stay the same. They're both equally prone to a slow shift over time. Language as a whole is prone to change not just the meanings of words.
and how much of the english grammar are you going to change before it isn't english grammar anymore? english grammar is what it is: you don't see any new innovations on where semicolons go, or that now you can use verbs as if they were adjectives. but you do see words changing in meaning.

so stop arguing a dead point. it wouldn't change the outcome of this thread at all - being offended by words is still plain stupid and in the eye of the offended.

In an ideal world people would not identify themselves based on their race, but while they still do, "racially insensitive" things will continue to offend. I'd love to live in a world where people could wear T-Shirts saying "Nigger" "Kike" "Dune Coon" "Chink" "White Anglo-Saxon Prick" etc. and people would see these shirts and would just walk by and not be offended because they do not identify themselves by an ethnocentric categorization.

As it stands now though many people still identify themselves based on race. Insulting someones race is like insulting someone's gang or someone's mother (like in the previous post's example). People who say "you shouldn't be offended" are right in theory, but the fact is people will be offended and could be potentially violent.

Although I'm glad that you are a realist in terms of the impact of the words, I think it's unreasonable to expect that they can ever become acceptable words. They're hate-filled at their very core. How can it ever be appropriate to call someone a word that says "You and everyone in your family tree is a lower class of human; Oh, and by the way, remember how your ancestors were oppressed and killed?".

The words need to go. Though...that's not going to happen until the concept of race goes. I hope future generations aren't brought up to be obsessed with our relatively insignificant outward differences. Geneticists are actually finding that there's more of a genetic difference between a tall and a short man than a black and a white man.

and how much of the english grammar are you going to change before it isn't english grammar anymore? english grammar is what it is: you don't see any new innovations on where semicolons go, or that now you can use verbs as if they were adjectives. but you do see words changing in meaning.

so stop arguing a dead point. it wouldn't change the outcome of this thread at all - being offended by words is still plain stupid and in the eye of the offended.

How many English words are you going to redefine before what's left is no longer recognizable as the English language? You're question misses the point.

That being that while languages change and shift they do so at a glacial pace. You can't just sponataneously decide that a word no longer means what it used to mean and then complain that people are stupid for still following the old definition.

Allow me to make an analogy.

Language (and words) are like a mountain range, over time they both will be worn away and reshaped by the passage of time. Just because someday a mountain range may be worn away to nothing by a glacier doesn't mean it doesn't exist now. You're argument is the linguistic equivalent of walking from Germany to Italy without taking the Alps into consideration and then complaining when you begin to freeze to death.

If language was as fluid as you are saying then communication would impossible. Which is what I was getting at when I suggested you bang your head into you're keyboard instead of actually taking the time to type out actual words.

How many English words are you going to redefine before what's left is no longer recognizable as the English language? You're question misses the point.

That being that while languages change and shift they do so at a glacial pace. You can't just sponataneously decide that a word no longer means what it used to mean and then complain that people are stupid for still following the old definition.

Allow me to make an analogy.

Language (and words) are like a mountain range, over time they both will be worn away and reshaped by the passage of time. Just because someday a mountain range may be worn away to nothing by a glacier doesn't mean it doesn't exist now. You're argument is the linguistic equivalent of walking from Germany to Italy without taking the Alps into consideration and then complaining when you begin to freeze to death.

If language was as fluid as you are saying then communication would impossible. Which is what I was getting at when I suggested you bang your head into you're keyboard instead of actually taking the time to type out actual words.
it's pretty funny how you are now arguing the same thing i am. :cool:

How can it ever be appropriate to call someone a word that says "You and everyone in your family tree is a lower class of human; Oh, and by the way, remember how your ancestors were oppressed and killed?".

Blacks seem to think it perfectly appropriate to call each other nigger, or "nigga" (because that makes all the difference :rolleyes:) as a term of solidarity. But because they have a shared heritage, the meaning changes slightly:

"You and everyone in your family tree is a lower class of human; Oh, and by the way, remember how your ancestors were oppressed and killed all because of whitey?".

Well if Tyrone wants to hold me, as a white man, somehow morally responsible for 1) some historical shit that he has never even experienced 2) something I have never done, then fuck him. If black people want the term nigger to be forever deemed inappropriate, then they've got to apply the same standard to themselves as they do unto others.

Blacks seem to think it perfectly appropriate to call each other nigger, or "nigga" (because that makes all the difference :rolleyes:) as a term of solidarity. But because they have a shared heritage, the meaning changes slightly:

"You and everyone in your family tree is a lower class of human; Oh, and by the way, remember how your ancestors were oppressed and killed all because of whitey?".

Well if Tyrone wants to hold me, as a white man, somehow morally responsible for 1) some historical shit that he has never even experienced 2) something I have never done, then fuck him. If black people want the term nigger to be forever deemed inappropriate, then they've got to apply the same standard to themselves as they do unto others.

If your point is just that blacks need to stop using the n-word, I agree. There's no need to gay up your post with your typical...gayness.

If your point is just that blacks need to stop using the n-word, I agree.

We do agree on this point.

There's no need to gay up your post with your typical...gayness.

I think we also agree on my 'gayed up' remarks, but you simply don't want to admit it.

it's pretty funny how you are now arguing the same thing i am. :cool:
I'm not.
We're looking at the same data and drawing different conclusions.
I've never said that language doesn't change or that the meanings of words are set in stone. I said that the fact that the meaning of a word might change in a hundred years has no bearing on how you should interpret the meaning of that word today. You seem to be saying that because words change in meaning over time that should ignore the meanings of words.

As I said before if language was as fluid as you're implying then communication would be impossible because up could mean down and left could mean right depending on the whim of the speaker.

Face it until the day nigger is declared to mean "pleasant upstanding gentleman of means" by an omnipotent authority, or the passage of time has worn away all memory of it's true meaning people will rightfully continue to be insulted by it. It's human nature and it's built into our design. If you have a problem with that take it up with our non-existent designer.

I'm not.
We're looking at the same data and drawing different conclusions.
I've never said that language doesn't change or that the meanings of words are set in stone. I said that the fact that the meaning of a word might change in a hundred years has no bearing on how you should interpret the meaning of that word today. You seem to be saying that because words change in meaning over time that should ignore the meanings of words.

As I said before if language was as fluid as you're implying then communication would be impossible because up could mean down and left could mean right depending on the whim of the speaker.

Face it until the day nigger is declared to mean "pleasant upstanding gentleman of means" by an omnipotent authority, or the passage of time has worn away all memory of it's true meaning people will rightfully continue to be insulted by it. It's human nature and it's built into our design. If you have a problem with that take it up with our non-existent designer.it is, but you wish to see it from the "in my lifetime" view.

but it happened to the greeks. it happened to the romans. it'll probably happen to us. our language will become shattered fragments of how it used to be, and when the people of the future discover the word "nigger" from our time, i wonder how they'll interpret it.